Evaluating A Story Telling Competition
mlim
I am a teacher in primary school. The schools in our zone held a story
telling and reading competition the last two years and will do so
again latter this year. There is one part about the competition that I
did not agree totally with and that is the marking scheme used. I
brought the issue in a meeting last year but since a decision has
already been made, I was told told to bring it up again this year. In
the story telling part, the marks are divided as follow.
Presentation : 35
Content : 35
Language : 25
Courtesy : 5
=====
100
=====
I feel the marks for the Content part is too much and the
Language part too little. Most stories used in the competition are
taken from story books, modified and shortened to fit the time limit.
I feel the marks for the content part should be lessen if not scrap.
Isn't it that by giving marks to the story's content, we are actually
giving marks to the actual writer of the story, and as to whether he
had write a good story or not, both which has no relation at all to
the event that is taking place? So, I feel that extra marks be given
for the Language part and also for the Presentation part since after
all, the main idea for holding the competition is to gauge the pupils
competency in the language, their ability to present a story well and
to test their personal confidence, courage and leadership quality.
What do you think?
I would also like to know what roles aids eg. pictures,
objects, used in the competition. How significant are they? In the
first year the competition was held, a few thought that there was big
emphasis on aids used. But in the second year, it was not considered
important. In fact, the chief judge said not to rely too much on aids
and that they are only there to help. What is your opinion on this?
Should it be specifically mentioned in the marking scheme? Should
other parts be sub-divided to lessen the subjectiveness in evaluation?
Eg. Language be sub-divided into fluency, intonation, pronunciation,
etc.
While I know that story telling competition is a good event, I
also feel that it is not quite fair to the teachers and the pupils
involved. The teacher has to find a good suitable story, edit and
modify it, making aids and coaching the pupils; all which take a lot
of time. Probably 70%-80% of the time. The pupils only have to
memorise the story and to present it well. More over, the teachers
themselves have to be good story tellers, or else, how would they be
able to coach their pupils? Consequently, how well a pupils can tell a
story also depend on the teacher concern. So, if a school doesn't has
a good story teller, surely their pupils will not be able to compete
well against a school which has language teachers who are also good
story tellers. Perhaps that is why one school swept 5 out of 6 first
prizes in the first competition and the same school also swept 5 out
of 6 first prizes in the second competition. Or is it because of other
factors, like the aids used? (Damn!! Why do I feel the prizes should
go to the teacher?) Perhaps you could comment on this and also maybe
recommend some other language competition that truly gauge the student
ability and competency in the language, and which doesn't need much
teacher's involvement.
Perhaps you can tell me if you have any comments on the
marking scheme for a reading competition.
Fluency : 40
Intonation : 30
Pronunciation : 30
====
100
====
For your information, both the competitions are held at the same time.
Reading is for Year 1 to Year 3 and The story telling competition is
for Year 4 to Year 6.
Bye and thank you,
BLURRY
ESLTEACHER
mlim (ml...@pc.jaring.my) wrote:
: the story telling part, the marks are divided as follow.
: Content : 35
: Language : 25
: Courtesy : 5
I'm totally fascinated... how is "courtesy" judged?
: I would also like to know what roles aids eg. pictures,
: objects, used in the competition. How significant are they? In the
: first year the competition was held, a few thought that there was big
: emphasis on aids used.
<snip>
: While I know that story telling competition is a good event, I
: also feel that it is not quite fair to the teachers and the pupils
: involved. The teacher has to find a good suitable story, edit and
: modify it, making aids and coaching the pupils; all which take a lot
: of time. Probably 70%-80% of the time. The pupils only have to
: memorise the story and to present it well.
Wow... When I first started reading this, I thought it was a "cute"
idea... the elementary school kids telling stories and competing. But
reading through your posting, I see that it is actually a competition of
teachers, and I begin to wonder what the point is.
Students (whether children or adults) can come up with their own stories,
be they original or traditional, and tell them, and they are
fascinating. What is the purpose of having a teacher force little ones
to memorize and spout out in competition the teacher's own story?
Wouldn't the competition be much more to the point (and interesting) if
the stories were separated into grade levels (say 1-3, 4-5, 6-7, or
whatever your school grades/forms correspond to) and the students were
encouraged to submit their own stories, with or without *student-created*
visual aids, as each student saw fit?
What is the purpose of this competition? Is it for teacher advancement,
or what?
Meg
--
ESL Teacher
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi
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mlim
tea...@dorsai.org (ESLTEACHER) wrote:
>: the story telling part, the marks are divided as follow.
>: Presentation : 35
>: Content : 35
>: Language : 25
>: Courtesy : 5
>I'm totally fascinated... how is "courtesy" judged?
In every competition, there are chairman or mc, judges, school heads,
teachers, invited guest, etc. Courtesy is judged when proper and
appropriate greetings and thanks are said.
>Wow... When I first started reading this, I thought it was a "cute"
>idea... the elementary school kids telling stories and competing. But
>reading through your posting, I see that it is actually a competition of
>teachers, and I begin to wonder what the point is.
>Students (whether children or adults) can come up with their own stories,
>be they original or traditional, and tell them, and they are
>fascinating. What is the purpose of having a teacher force little ones
>to memorize and spout out in competition the teacher's own story?
>Wouldn't the competition be much more to the point (and interesting) if
>the stories were separated into grade levels (say 1-3, 4-5, 6-7, or
>whatever your school grades/forms correspond to) and the students were
>encouraged to submit their own stories, with or without *student-created*
>visual aids, as each student saw fit?
>What is the purpose of this competition? Is it for teacher advancement,
>or what?
After reading what you have written, I can guest that you have never
been involved in any story telling competition before. And perhaps you
have never teach kids who are learning English as a second or third
language. Where students can't even speak, much less, write proper and
correct English sentences. So, nobody can ever expect them to write
their own story and tell them. And remember, this is a language based
competition - pronunciation, intonation, grammar, etc. counts. In this
kind of situation, only by memorising a story can a pupil tell a story
correctly. Which is why I placed the posting in the first place -
should the content of the story be given marks since the story is not
written by the pupils themselves.
On the part about it being just a competition for teachers, it's funny
that you should mention it because I have never felt it as that. We
as teachers try our best to give our pupils a fighting chance to win.
After all, the pupils represent the school, and their achievement will
reflect the performance of the schools and teachers in general. So
being involved to me is just an added burden to our already demanding
work.
Consider this - would you send your school's basketball or football
team to a competition totally untrained and unprepared? Sure you'll
wouldn't. Your team will lose terribly and will be rediculed and
laughed at. And that in turn affects the image of the pupils, the
teachers concerned and the school.
StormNY
Woa there, big cultural clash. I taught ESL in Malaysia for 7 years, the
only reason I feel I can comment on this.
M Lim, the big question is, perhaps, how do the learners feel about the
whole thing?
What is the purpose of the competition, from the organisers and from your
perspective?
It would be much better, from an TEFLA view, if they were involved with
creating the stories. If they are accomplishing a problem-solving task
*in English* then they will learn more English. Any part of this which
you can "turn over" to them or do together, will improve their overall
learning. Can you find a few simple stories, let them choose one, have
them work on any part of it? Can you give them part of the re-write and
let them finish it? Can they do a Malaysian story in English?
I know you are in a special situation, with the authorities setting up
procedures as well as goals, and with classes usuually large and time
short. You shouldn't feel that you have to do all the work, because
getting the students to do the work *in English* is actually the best
teaching and the best motivator.
Do you know how the winning teams go about this?
Jumpa lagi
mlim
sto...@aol.com (StormNY) wrote:
>Woa there, big cultural clash. I taught ESL in Malaysia for 7 years, the
>only reason I feel I can comment on this.
>M Lim, the big question is, perhaps, how do the learners feel about the
>whole thing?
What do you think how the 10 to 12 years old kids who don't speak the
language or understand why they have to learn the language in the
first place feel?
I don't really know myself, but I can see that they are excited and do
work hard trying to win.
>What is the purpose of the competition, from the organisers and from your
>perspective?
See my first posting and the follow up emails below.
>It would be much better, from an TEFLA view, if they were involved with
>creating the stories. If they are accomplishing a problem-solving task
>*in English* then they will learn more English. Any part of this which
>you can "turn over" to them or do together, will improve their overall
>learning.
Of course, of course, of course.
>Can you find a few simple stories, let them choose one, have
>them work on any part of it? Can you give them part of the re-write and
>let them finish it? Can they do a Malaysian story in English?
Forget it!!
>I know you are in a special situation, with the authorities setting up
>procedures as well as goals, and with classes usuually large and time
>short.
True
>You shouldn't feel that you have to do all the work, because
>getting the students to do the work *in English* is actually the best
>teaching and the best motivator.
True, now if only it is as simple as saying it.
>Do you know how the winning teams go about this?
Don't know what you mean here.
I am glad that you have at least some experience teaching in Malaysia.
But like Ms. ELSTEACHER, you seem to be missing the point of the
article. Now, I don't have the time to write specifically for you
since I am very busy nowadays. So, I suggest that you read (don't just
skim) the follow up e-mails below and try to comment on it latter.
Take note on my points. She didn't reply back so I guest either she
get my point or she is even more adamant on her views.
To say that why organising a story telling competition is based on
culture is totally unacceptable to me.
And comparing a 10 - 12 years olds kid who just begins to learn
English to a 16 - 17 years old student or a kid from an English
speaking country is like comparing a.....a...... well, you get my
point, I don't know what to think right now.
****************************************************************
> After reading what you have written, I can guest that you have never
> been involved in any story telling competition before. And perhaps you
> have never teach kids who are learning English as a second or third
> language. Where students can't even speak, much less, write proper and
> correct English sentences. So, nobody can ever expect them to write
> their own story and tell them.
Oh, I whole-heartedly disagree. I don't know how often you teach your
kids, but mine can write reasonable sentences by their fifth week of
class. No, these are not Pulitzer-prize-winning sentences, but they
are
reasonable sentences. I usually have my students write their first
stories at about eight weeks. I have them do this *without* a
dictionary
and they do it. By six months, they are writing down simple
folkstories.
They learn to do this because I have them read a few folk stories that
I
have written to their level, and then we talk about folk stories and I
try to get them to remember folk stories that they know. They do
this.
THey *can* talk.
> And remember, this is a language based
> competition - pronunciation, intonation, grammar, etc. counts. In this
So, then, this *is* a competition for the teachers - to test the
teachers' grammar and story-telling. That's okay, if that's what it
is.
I gather from your adamant defense of the idea that it's probably
something
culturally based with which I have little familiarity - we wouldn't do
such
a thing here. Our competitions are supposed to show the *students'*
achievement.
> as teachers try our best to give our pupils a fighting chance to win.
> After all, the pupils represent the school, and their achievement will
> reflect the performance of the schools and teachers in general.
Our student competitors also represent their schools, but they are
competing against other *students*.
>
> Consider this - would you send your school's basketball or football
> team to a competition totally untrained and unprepared? Sure you'll
> wouldn't.
This is not the same thing as writing the story to be told by the
student. You can teach your student English, and help them to correct
their own work through their own effort, the way I would do with a
student in such a competition. This is what the basketball coach
does.
The basketball coach does not throw the baskets for the team in the
game.
We have a communication break-down here, quite obviously. I perceive a
high likelihood that this is one of those things that represent
teaching
done in another culture by folks of another culture, which defy my
understanding. Thus, I suppose I should bow out of this conversation
and leave you to others from similar cultures who might be able to
understand the utility of such a competition on your terms.
Sorry to have upset you.
Meg
ESL Teacher
*******************************************************
At 10:32 PM 7/1/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>> After reading what you have written, I can guest that you have never
>> been involved in any story telling competition before. And perhaps you
>> have never teach kids who are learning English as a second or third
>> language. Where students can't even speak, much less, write proper and
>> correct English sentences. So, nobody can ever expect them to write
>> their own story and tell them.
>Oh, I whole-heartedly disagree. I don't know how often you teach your
>kids, but mine can write reasonable sentences by their fifth week of
>class. No, these are not Pulitzer-prize-winning sentences, but they are
>reasonable sentences. I usually have my students write their first
>stories at about eight weeks. I have them do this *without* a dictionary
>and they do it. By six months, they are writing down simple folkstories.
>They learn to do this because I have them read a few folk stories that I
>have written to their level, and then we talk about folk stories and I
>try to get them to remember folk stories that they know. They do this.
>THey *can* talk.
Well, I don't know how you can do that over there. You didn't
tell me anything else. Results and achievements depend on what age the
students are, their background experience in English, what kind of
schools, what are their attitude and aptitute towards the language,
parental support, educational materials and facilitities available,
how much time is allocated for learning the language, the system of
education, etc.
When talking about how fast we can see results in the
students' ability to learn English is not a simple issue, and what the
students can achieve does not depend on their teacher only. I can show
you little kids speaking English with their parents and friends even
before entering their formal schooling years. But these are mostly
confined to big town areas. In most schools, and certainly majority of
the rural schools, English is probably the last in the students' list
of favourite subjects and of importance. Teaching English in these
schools can be a very challenging and uphill task for teachers. My
years in the teaching field tells me that achievement can vary from
school to school, town to town, city to city, district to district,
state to state and country to country. Now, when you tell me that you
whole-heartedly disagree with me, you are saying that you can also
achieve the same result if you teach any where on this planet. If you
can do that in the school that I am teaching now, I will kneel down
before you and kiss your feet.
>> And remember, this is a language based
>> competition - pronunciation, intonation, grammar, etc. counts. In this
>So, then, this *is* a competition for the teachers - to test the
>teachers' grammar and story-telling. That's okay, if that's what it is.
>I gather from your adamant defense of the idea that it's probably something
>culturally based with which I have little familiarity - we wouldn't do such
>a thing here. Our competitions are supposed to show the *students'*
>achievement.
Perhaps I should not have mention grammar. What I mean was that
sometimes, student's pronunciation are so teribble that they sound
grammatically incorrect, which will be perceived as a grammar mistake
instead of pronunciation. I don't feel like being tested because the
first thing, I didn't write the story. I just edit it (if it is
needed) for the students, not because I want to but because the
student can't do it themselves. Then I show the student how to tell
the story, which I can do to the whole class, which is also part of
teaching for me, which I don't feel like taking part in the
competition, because at that time I feel like a teacher that I am,
showing them how to tell a story, and not forcing them to follow every
sound, action, expression, movement, or facial expression I made.
>> as teachers try our best to give our pupils a fighting chance to win.
>> After all, the pupils represent the school, and their achievement will
>> reflect the performance of the schools and teachers in general.
>Our student competitors also represent their schools, but they are
>competing against other *students*.
Precisely, but tell me, did it ever come across your mind that you
feel like letting people know that you are teaching in good schools
and not a 'lousy' school, where their students take part in all kinds
of competition but can't win anything at all.
Wanting to show student achievement in an intra-school competition is
a pretty straightforward idea. But in an inter-school competition, I
think it goes a bit more than just trying to show student achievement.
And I think this goes true for every educational institutions the
whole world.
>> Consider this - would you send your school's basketball or football
>> team to a competition totally untrained and unprepared? Sure you'll
>> wouldn't.
>This is not the same thing as writing the story to be told by the
>student. You can teach your student English, and help them to correct
>their own work through their own effort, the way I would do with a
>student in such a competition. This is what the basketball coach does.
>The basketball coach does not throw the baskets for the team in the game.
No comment, it's obvious your student are of different level. The same
point is applicable over here.
>We have a communication break-down here, quite obviously. I perceive a
>high likelihood that this is one of those things that represent teaching
>done in another culture by folks of another culture, which defy my
>understanding. Thus, I suppose I should bow out of this conversation
>and leave you to others from similar cultures who might be able to
>understand the utility of such a competition on your terms.
>Sorry to have upset you.
I agree totally that we have a communication breakdown. But I
don't agree that this is one of those things has to do with culture
that defy understanding. You didn't understand probably because your
point of view is only limited your level of experience. And the
reason why this argument is taking place in the first place and going
way out of point is because you did not understand what I want in the
first place. I am not asking for the utility or WHY the competition
should be held. The teachers are involved not because they want to, or
because of culture, but because it had to be done. There is no choice
given the level of students competency. OK, so maybe some of the
teachers are too involved in preparing the kids. So what? The
important thing here is that we, as educators, have given the kids a
chance to go up on stage and gain an experience and to be brave and
courageous. Right? It doesn't matter what the materials are or how
they come about.
So what if the teachers are taking part in the competition?
Heck, I don't care if Agatha Christie, Walts Disney or even Steven
Speilberg are taking part too for that matter. Anyone could be able to
help me if they really understood what I was asking in the first
place. Which is :
1. How to judge a story telling competition fairly and correctly.
2. Any other language competition that truly gauge the student
ability and competency in the language.
Both of which you have not been of much help. Have you ever been
directly involved in a story telling competition before?
Yes, I admit I was a little bit upset because of that. And I apologize
too if I have upset you.
********************************************
So, tell me a bit more about yourself.
I live in Malaysia, in the state of Sarawak. I teach in a primary
school. (Primary 1 to Primary 6 (7 years old to 12 years old)). I am
now teaching English to Primary 5. The allocated time is 150 minutes a
week out of a total of 1620 min.(2 1/2 hr. out of 27 hrs.)
mlim
I have posted a private private message from ESLTEACHER that was
e-mailed to me and I apologized to her for posting it without asking
her permission first.
I did not mean to hurt or flame anyone and if I do sound harsh in my
articles, it is merely because I was trying to get my point across to
some people who did not understand the reason why I posted my first
article.
To say that my interest is not in *teaching* the student and allowing
them to *work* has greatly sadden me and nearly brought me to tears.
We teachers in Malaysia sacrifice a lot of our time and energy despite
great problems and obstacles in our ways. Do you know that some
schools are located so far in the interior jungle that it takes a week
to go there on foot?
Teaching English here is not an easy task and it is one of the reason
why many schools performed dismally in public exam. Every activity
that we think are good and that give students every little opportunity
and encouragement to speak it will be organized. And that include
story telling competition. And though we know that the kids can't do
it on their own, we teachers here sacrificed and gave all the support
and encouragement we can to make the event a success, especially so
for the kids themselves.
I regret that I sent the posting in the first place as I did not get
the help I wanted but instead get criticism for our pure and noble
intention to pass down knowledge to our student.
So, again I send a thousand apologies to anyone whose feeling I have
hurt.
I would also like to thank you for every suggestion that has been put
forward.
Let this ends here.
Thank you.
mlim
My head is now very clear