Intolerance towards Children
SUSAN TANIGUCHI
Our neighbour has has been taking my daughter to art class during the past few months. It was an oil painting class that rant for 3 hours once a week. Today she had the wrotten job of telling me that my daughter cannot continue her art classes. The reason being that some of the intolerant old fogies in the class don't like a kid being there. My neighbour assured me that it was nothing to do with my daughters behaviour, and I trust hery on that one, just the fact that she is a kid.
My daughter is devistated, and mad. Both of us are tired of these senior citizens who live in their little retirement communities away from the real world that just don't want to be around kids. It's no wonder with attitudes like theirs that they end up in homes and none of their families visit them. They are so intolerant. What ever happened to a "community" raising a child. I'm am so mad at the attitude, Sally is too, so somehow we have to channel that anger into something constructive and try and d
o some community education. I wouldn't be quite so mad if it was just a passing interest, but oil painting is very important to Sally and she is very serious about it. She has put a lot of her own hard earned money into buying equipment.
This is not the first time this sort of thing has happened to us. My daughter who happens to be a musician too, wanted to join a community band, but because of her age, they wouldn't even give her an audition. James Galway she is not, but she can hold her own. I was told that if they let an 11 year old join the band then older people would leave.
Has anyone else experienced this narrow minded, intolerant view of children's worth?
I think this may be my next crusade. Educating people about children and the fact that they are not second class citizens and should be treated with the same amount of respect as adults expect.
Sue
--
Susan Taniguchi * Sus...@aztec.asu.edu
Homeschooling SIG Moderator
Diane M. Solbach
>Both of us are tired of these senior citizens who live in their little retirement communities away from the real world that just do=
n't want to be around kids. It's no wonder with attitudes like theirs that they end up in homes and none of their families visit th=
em. They are so intolerant.<
I think you should be careful making broad generalizations about older people who live in retirement communities. My 83yo grandmoth=
er, the most giving and loving person in the world, lives in one. She has given thousands of dollars (literally) to my family and h=
er other grandchildren and children (as well as charities, etc.) She loves children AND is visited by relatives regularly.
It's unfortunate that your daughter was asked to leave the class. It's also unfortunate that there are many children out there who=
*don't* show respect to older citizens (though apparently your daughter isn't like that), or *anyone*, for that matter. Perhaps the=
y had previously had a bad experience with a child in the class?
>What ever happened to a "community" raising a child.
Sadly, I would have to say that there are many people in the "community" I would prefer NOT to raise my child!!
I think this is part of a vicious circle in the US. I don't think children are the only ones whose rights are trounced regularly. It=
opens up a can of worms that I'm not about to get into on home-school.misc.
Diane
no...@nilenet.com
Denver, Colorado
BTW I read this post through Netscape--did anyone else experience a funky format with this post?
Diane M. Solbach
> One of the best things about home education is that children are not
> separated away from the rest of the community. I do think that this
> subject applies to this newsgroup for that reason. Although we might
> understand a child being asked to leave if they were being disruptive,
> asking a child, who is able to participate at the class' skill level,
> to leave simply because of age is not understandable. It's wrong.
<sigh>
As is usual for Usenet, my comments were misunderstood. I don't disagree
with the above at all. I think what Sue said *does* have to do with
home-school.misc. I simply said *I* don't want to get into it, because I
tend to get worked up about it.
The main reason my kids aren't going to school is because I think there's
much, much more to life than being locked in a stuffy school all day. I'm
sure if one of my kids was refused entrance to a community class on
account of their age (and they had the skills to be in the class) I'd find
a way to change things. I'm simply irritated by generalizations
(especially when they seem to include my Grandma ;).
>Expecting "children" to be mature includes accepting
> them into adult circles.
Exactly! I love to take my 5yo son out to coffeehouses and bookstores at
night--he enjoys being part of the "night community" and is often one of
the few kids out that late.
> As homeschoolers we have forsaken the age-segregated school systems.
> I don't think we should sit by and let our communities be age-
> segregated either.
I see both sides tho. My grandmother moved into a retirement community
because she feels *safer*. She doesn't have to worry about crime and the
rudeness that *I've* seen shown to many older citizens in our society (she
refused an offer to move in with my parents). By a vicious circle I was
implying that because of the disrespect that children so frequently
receive, they in turn act out--and often act up as adults....
I've lived in countries where extended families live together. The
children learn so much from the older folks and vice versa. We seem so
fragmented due to our desire to move around--thus splitting up families.
I envy those who live close to their families. *I* hope to someday find a
caring community where all citizens care for and about each other....
Hopefully, I explained my opinion a little better this time. :)
Diane
no...@nilenet.com
Denver, Colorado
Julie A. Pascal
>(response to a child who was asked to leave an art class because
she was a child)
>I think this is part of a vicious circle in the US. I don't think children are the only ones whose rights are trounced regularly. It=
> opens up a can of worms that I'm not about to get into on home-school.misc.
One of the best things about home education is that children are not
separated away from the rest of the community. I do think that this
subject applies to this newsgroup for that reason. Although we might
understand a child being asked to leave if they were being disruptive,
asking a child, who is able to participate at the class' skill level,
to leave simply because of age is not understandable. It's wrong.
Separating people by ages is ingrained in our thinking primarily, IMO,
because schools do it. Twelve year olds were considered adults until
this last century. Whats-his-name was only 14 when he was assigned an
ambassadorial post to Russia! It does take longer now to get the
education required of us, but that should not be confused with thinking
that children cannot be responsible or contribute to adult situations
until they are 18 or 20. No, teenagers aren't all grown up, but then
neither am I. Expecting "children" to be mature includes accepting
them into adult circles. ( An example whould be in Churches. There
is no reason to separate teens from the adult choir or other adult
activities....if that's where they want to be.)
As homeschoolers we have forsaken the age-segregated school systems.
I don't think we should sit by and let our communities be age-
segregated either.
j.pascal
>
>Diane
>
Julie A. Pascal
>>This is not the first time this sort of thing has happened to us. My daughter who happens to be a musician too, wanted to join a =
community band, but because of her age, they wouldn't even give her an audition. James Galway she is not, but she can hold her own.=
I was told that if they let an 11 year old join the band then older people would leave.
They might be suprised. In my experience older people tend to be really
impressed with youngsters who show and interest in their activities.
The expectation seems to be that children are disruptive and frivolous.
>>Has anyone else experienced this narrow minded, intolerant view of children's worth?
I'm not sure that it's an intolerant view of children's worth, exactly.
It's more an expectation of children's behavior and being accustomed to
separating participation in activities by people's ages.
>>I think this may be my next crusade. Educating people about children and the fact that they are not second class citizens and sho=
uld be treated with the same amount of respect as adults expect.
I hope that your daughter continues to apply to the community orchistra,
and continues to sign up for art classes. Home educated children will
be more visible in the community as the numbers grow. After a while it
may not seem so strange to have young people who's lives are lived in
our communities rather than confined to the schools.
j.pascal
Julie A. Pascal
>In article <42dg0l$c...@times.tfs.com>, "Julie A. Pascal" <ju...@tfs.com>
>
>with the above at all. I think what Sue said *does* have to do with
>home-school.misc. I simply said *I* don't want to get into it, because I
>tend to get worked up about it.
>
communicating via Usenet does have it's limitations. ;) He he, the
first time I started reading the home-ed groups I had to quit cold-
turkey for several weeks because I couldn't sleep at night. My mind
kept going over and over the issues I care about. Argh! (I'm
better now :) (kind of)
j.pascal
Karen Horvath
because I wasn't 18, I was also going to volleyball with adults the same
year and was kicked out of it after about 6 weeks because I wasn't an
adult. I wanted my daughter to take music lessons but couldn't make the
Saturday class with the kids, I told them that she would behave well
enough to take class with adults and if she didn't I would stop sending
her but the instructor refused because he said it would make him loose
other customers. Also I am an avid quilter and it is very frowned upon
to bring my kids to the meetings 10, and 4 years old even though they
were playing outside and only came in once and a while for a hug.
What can we expect from a nation that rejoices at the opportunity to lock
their kids away for 6-8 hours per day in public school.
TPatierno
In a letter you once wrote, you said:
---
My daughter is devistated, and mad. Both of us are tired of these senior
citizens who live in their little retirement communities away from the
attitudes like theirs that they end up in homes and none of their families
raising a child. I'm am so mad at the attitude, Sally is too, so somehow
we have to channel that anger into something constructive and try and d
o some community education.
My suggestion to you is that you contact the EEOC immediately to
investigate the school that asked that your daughter be no longer able to
attend classes. I also suggest that you contact the school that you are
filing a complaint with the EEOC because of their recent actions.
An investigation will result in possibly three avenues of resolution:
1. that the letter to the school will result in the school taking a stand
againstt this form of discrimination. This means that they will support
your daughters right to be in that school when confronted by these older
people.
2. You will be able to receive substantial money damages from the school,
and those that were involved in the discriminatory behavior. :-)
3. Three- if you do nothing, you will have taught your 11 year old
daughter that it is okay to be discrimminated against-- :-(
May you have success with your problem.
Tom Patierno
Tom Patierno, EMT/FF