Electrical box protection during drywalling..
Frank Wycklendt
Electricians
I am going to be doing my own electric wiring in a
new house. I would prefer to completely test the wiring
before the drywall is in place. My preferrence would be
to have most of the electrical boxes fitted with their
final outlets and switches before the drywall is
in place. Are there covers which cover the electrical
boxes protecting the outlets and switches during the drywall
installation process which will not hinder the drywallers
themselves. In most of the areas I will be using plastic
electrical boxes.
Thanks in advance,
Frank.
David Kosenko
> I am going to be doing my own electric wiring in a
>new house. I would prefer to completely test the wiring
>before the drywall is in place.
Pardon my ignorance, but why in heaven's name do you feel a need to
"test" electrical wiring? Apart from the slightly out-of-the-ordinary
stuff, like 3-way or more-way switches, electrical wiring has very
little that can go wrong with it (assuming a competent installation -
if you doubt your skill here, you should be questioning whether you should
be tackling this job).
>My preferrence would be
>to have most of the electrical boxes fitted with their
>final outlets and switches before the drywall is
>in place.
If you do, your drywallers will curse the ground you walk on. Most will
use a special tool that they zip around the empty elec. boxes to cut the
openings, which is real quick if you do it right. If you go putting in the
switches, plugs and plates, they won't be able to use this, and will be
mightily annoyed for it.
Dave
--
Disclaimer: These opinions are not those of Informix Software, Inc.
**************************************************************************
"I look back with some satisfaction on what an idiot I was when I was 25,
but when I do that, I'm assuming I'm no longer an idiot." - Andy Rooney
Jon von Zelowitz
>Frank Wycklendt writes:
>> I am going to be doing my own electric wiring in a
>>new house. I would prefer to completely test the wiring
>>before the drywall is in place.
>
>Pardon my ignorance, but why in heaven's name do you feel a need to
>"test" electrical wiring? Apart from the slightly out-of-the-ordinary
>stuff, like 3-way or more-way switches, electrical wiring has very
>little that can go wrong with it (assuming a competent installation -
>if you doubt your skill here, you should be questioning whether you should
>be tackling this job).
Exactly right, and moreover, the errors that David says may occur in
out-of-the-ordinary situations should be solvable even if drywall is
up already.
Jon von Zelowitz vonz...@mv.us.adobe.com ...uunet!adobe!vonzelow
Mark Armstrong soft
I install the outlets before putting up the drywall. The drywallers
told me I would have to remove them. He said you should mount
the box a little behind the drywall, not flush. The outlets have those
little "micky mouse" ears which will be flush will the drywall. This method
make sure the outlets are lined up with the covers. I did have this problem
with my first job, the outlets were too far into the box. You should be
able to test the circuits by checking the resisitance first.
Dave Kieffer
David Kosenko <da...@informix.com> wrote:
>Frank Wycklendt writes:
>> I am going to be doing my own electric wiring in a
>>new house. I would prefer to completely test the wiring
>>before the drywall is in place.
>
>>My preferrence would be
>>to have most of the electrical boxes fitted with their
>>final outlets and switches before the drywall is
>>in place.
>
>If you do, your drywallers will curse the ground you walk on. Most will
>use a special tool that they zip around the empty elec. boxes to cut the
>openings, which is real quick if you do it right. If you go putting in the
Can you describe this "special tool"?
Thanks much!
>switches, plugs and plates, they won't be able to use this, and will be
>mightily annoyed for it.
>
>Dave
>--
>Disclaimer: These opinions are not those of Informix Software, Inc.
>**************************************************************************
>"I look back with some satisfaction on what an idiot I was when I was 25,
> but when I do that, I'm assuming I'm no longer an idiot." - Andy Rooney
--
Dave Kieffer Really, now. Get a grip.
da...@osu.edu Disco STILL sucks.
Mark Armstrong soft
>> I am going to be doing my own electric wiring in a
>>new house. I would prefer to completely test the wiring
>>before the drywall is in place.
>
>Pardon my ignorance, but why in heaven's name do you feel a need to
>"test" electrical wiring? Apart from the slightly out-of-the-ordinary
>stuff, like 3-way or more-way switches, electrical wiring has very
Hmm, well, gee, I did some major wiring during a remodeling project.
I got behind schedule and didn't complete the electrical work.
Now, the carpeting was comming in and I thought the same, what could
go wrong with some electrical work?
Well, something did go wrong. My father cut thru the wires with the
saw. I think he reconnected them wrong. It concerns a switched outlet.
Now only 1/2 the plugs work in the room, I disconnected the bad circuits.
Luckly, I get another chance. We got the carpet company
to replace the carpet (that another story) so I can fix the wiring.
>
Dave Kieffer (dkie...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
We had one light that didn't work in our new house. It turned out the
dry-wallers had one box they hadn't cut out. The electricians hadn't noticed
and the wires never got connected in that box.
To avoid this problem, my electrician spray-painted a small dot on the
sub-floor under each box.
-jg
David Kosenko
>David Kosenko <da...@informix.com> wrote:
>>If you do, your drywallers will curse the ground you walk on. Most will
>>use a special tool that they zip around the empty elec. boxes to cut the
>>openings, which is real quick if you do it right. If you go putting in the
>
>
>Can you describe this "special tool"?
Imagine a laminate trimmer (or little router) with no base. Basically a
motor with a collet. Stick a bit in it and you have one of these puppies.
Commercial names are: Roto-Zip (all I know offhand). You turn it on,
plunge it into the drywall inside the buried outlet box, then use the
inside of the box as a cutting template. You then have a hole through
which the box fits snugly, and a whole lot of gypsum dust on the floor ;-).
David Kosenko
:>Pardon my ignorance, but why in heaven's name do you feel a need to
:>stuff, like 3-way or more-way switches, electrical wiring has very
Mark Armstrong writes:
>Well, something did go wrong. My father cut thru the wires with the
>saw. I think he reconnected them wrong. It concerns a switched outlet.
>Now only 1/2 the plugs work in the room, I disconnected the bad circuits.
Testing the wiring before drywall went up would not have had any effect on
your situation. My comment was in regards to this, and did not (and should
not) take into account someone doing something stupid like cutting a wire
with a saw (which should not be possible, if correctly wired, assuming he
wasn't cutting a new door with a sawzall or something).
patterson,george r
Dave Kieffer <dkie...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>>If you do, your drywallers will curse the ground you walk on. Most will
>>use a special tool that they zip around the empty elec. boxes to cut the
>>openings, which is real quick if you do it right. If you go putting in the
>
>Can you describe this "special tool"?
Most pros use a sheet rock saw for the rectangular outlet boxes and a circle
cutter for the ceiling boxes. The cutter has a spike in the center and an
adjustable arm with the blade on the end. Adjust the arm to the radius of
the box, drive the spike in the center of the desired location, and give
it a spin. I've also seen cutters for the rectangular holes, but only seen
one team use them. As I recall, it looked something like a T-square with
a blade in a sliding mount.
More to the point is the fact that parts of your electrical outlets are
designed to go *over* the sheet rock. Install the outlets first and the
rock installers will (if you're very lucky) insist that you remove them
before they go to work. More likely they'll simply cut the holes big
enough to fit over everything, leaving gaps around your cover plates.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| God said to Abraham, "Kill me a son".
| Abe said "Man, you must be puttin' me on".
George Patterson - | God said "Well, you do what you want done,
| but the next time you see me comin', you'd better run".
| Abe said "Where you want this killin' done?".
| Robert Zimmerman
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
bill nelson
:
: It is a laminate trimmer usually. Basically, it is a small, light router with
: a straight bit. They just plunge into the box and route until they hit the
: edge and then zip around the box. I have also heard of it being used for
: door and window openings.
:
: We had one light that didn't work in our new house. It turned out the
: and the wires never got connected in that box.
Hm, that box was installed incorrectly. It should have been mounted so the
front of the box was flush with the front of the drywall. The hangers would
not have been able to mount the drywall, without the cutout, if this were
the case.
Bill
bill nelson
:
: I install the outlets before putting up the drywall. The drywallers
: told me I would have to remove them. He said you should mount
: the box a little behind the drywall, not flush. The outlets have those
: little "micky mouse" ears which will be flush will the drywall. This method
: make sure the outlets are lined up with the covers. I did have this problem
: with my first job, the outlets were too far into the box. You should be
: able to test the circuits by checking the resisitance first.
Who are you going to trust? A drywaller, or an electrician? The NEC states
that if the wall is combustible, then the front of the box must be flush
with the surface. If it is non-combustible, then it may be up to 1/4 inch
below the surface.
There are have to line up with the covers - or you cannot install the cover.
You may not want the outlets to line up perfectly in the box - however.
You can break of those little ears, if you wish - they are not required.
I would have told the drywallers to live with it. I suspect that they were
trying to make their own job easier.
Bill
bill nelson
:
: More to the point is the fact that parts of your electrical outlets are
: designed to go *over* the sheet rock. Install the outlets first and the
: rock installers will (if you're very lucky) insist that you remove them
: before they go to work. More likely they'll simply cut the holes big
: enough to fit over everything, leaving gaps around your cover plates.
Exactly. You want the boxes mounted, but not the switches or outlets.
Bill
Caleb Hess
bill nelson <bi...@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> wrote:
>Who are you going to trust? A drywaller, or an electrician? The NEC states
>that if the wall is combustible, then the front of the box must be flush
>with the surface. If it is non-combustible, then it may be up to 1/4 inch
>below the surface.
OK, what's the kindling temperature of gypsum?
...
>I would have told the drywallers to live with it. I suspect that they were
>trying to make their own job easier.
I think they were speaking from experience. For the neatest finish, you
want the box to protrude most, but not all, the way through the drywall.
If the box comes out more than flush, the cover plate will not go back
against the wall.
Mike Nickerson
: mi...@boi.hp.com (Mike Nickerson) writes:
: :
: : dry-wallers had one box they hadn't cut out. The electricians hadn't noticed
: : and the wires never got connected in that box.
: Hm, that box was installed incorrectly. It should have been mounted so the
: front of the box was flush with the front of the drywall. The hangers would
: not have been able to mount the drywall, without the cutout, if this were
: the case.
: Bill
The box was mounted proud of the wall. The way the electrician found it when
we called was running a straight edge along the wall looking for the bulge in
the sheetrock caused by the box sticking out. Somehow the sheetrock installers
had got it pounded down. I don't know if the box was out as far as it should
have been, but it was out.
Mike Nickerson
mi...@boi.hp.com
Eric Perozziello
>: designed to go *over* the sheet rock. Install the outlets first and the
>: rock installers will (if you're very lucky) insist that you remove them
>: before they go to work. More likely they'll simply cut the holes big
>: enough to fit over everything, leaving gaps around your cover plates.
>
>Exactly. You want the boxes mounted, but not the switches or outlets.
What is supposed to be done with the wires coming into the box?
(So they don't get nicked by the drywall installers' cutout tools).
-Eric
--
"The middle class tax cut is central to any attempt we're going to make to have
a short term economic strategy. Bill Clinton, Jan 1992.
"...the press thought the most important issue in the race was the middle class
tax cut. I never did meet any voter who thought that." Bill Clinton, Jan 1993.
bill nelson
: In article <1994Mar7.0...@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com>,
: bill nelson <bi...@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> wrote:
: ...
: >I would have told the drywallers to live with it. I suspect that they were
: >trying to make their own job easier.
:
: I think they were speaking from experience. For the neatest finish, you
: want the box to protrude most, but not all, the way through the drywall.
: If the box comes out more than flush, the cover plate will not go back
: against the wall.
It can come out a bit more than flush, and still have the cover plate fit.
That is why the plate is concave on the back.
Now, if it is 1/4" past flush, then the plate will probably not reach the wall.
Bill
bill nelson
: >: More to the point is the fact that parts of your electrical outlets are
: >: designed to go *over* the sheet rock. Install the outlets first and the
: >: rock installers will (if you're very lucky) insist that you remove them
: >: before they go to work. More likely they'll simply cut the holes big
: >: enough to fit over everything, leaving gaps around your cover plates.
: >
: >Exactly. You want the boxes mounted, but not the switches or outlets.
:
: What is supposed to be done with the wires coming into the box?
: (So they don't get nicked by the drywall installers' cutout tools).
Fold them up in the back of the box. The cutout tools should not extend
more than a fraction of an inch into the box.
Bill
ZenGEOS
<<<<
It can come out a bit more than flush, and still have the cover plate fit.
That is why the plate is concave on the back.
Now, if it is 1/4" past flush, then the plate will probably not reach the wall.
Bill
>>>>
I woul dlike to add that when doing rewiring of older homes, the PLASTIC Old
Work boxes are actually designed to sit ON the plaster and then the wings snug
to the back of the plaster or sheetrock holding it in place. So, yes, boxes can
and often DO protrude slightly from the face of the wall surface.
Zen aka Mark
Mark Armstrong soft
>response to questions re: outlet/switch box protrusion from sheetrock:
>
>Work boxes are actually designed to sit ON the plaster and then the wings snug
>to the back of the plaster or sheetrock holding it in place. So, yes, boxes can
>and often DO protrude slightly from the face of the wall surface.
>
You should remember that the outlet cover are screwed into the outlet,
not the box. Remodeling boxes do "sit" on the plaster but the outlets
are flush to the wall by the design of the boxes.
patterson,george r
Eric Perozziello <e...@everest.Stanford.EDU> wrote:
>What is supposed to be done with the wires coming into the box?
>(So they don't get nicked by the drywall installers' cutout tools).
The electricians fold them back into the box.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
|
George Patterson - | He who speaks of sacrifice speaks of slaves and
| masters. And intends to be the master.
| Ayn Rand
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Barrett
>
> Electricians
>
> I am going to be doing my own electric wiring in a
> new house. I would prefer to completely test the wiring
> before the drywall is in place. My preferrence would be
> to have most of the electrical boxes fitted with their
> final outlets and switches before the drywall is
> in place.
I think everyone would agree that the switches and outlets should
be connected after the drywall is finished. However, there may be
reasons to connect some of the outlets and switches prior to drywall.
I am currently finishing some space over my garage most of which I do
at night. Putting in some outlets and some $1 light bulb bases makes
the job a lot easier. Since I am doing my drywall I'm the one that has
to suffer. However, if I had someone else doing the drywall I would
definitely not wire any switches or outlets.
PS: I turn off the power to a particular outlet when cutting the hole
in the drywall.
Mark Barrett
ma...@col.hp.com
Gary Meyers
>In article <1994Mar7.2...@cascade.Stanford.EDU>,
>Eric Perozziello <e...@everest.Stanford.EDU> wrote:
>
>>What is supposed to be done with the wires coming into the box?
>>(So they don't get nicked by the drywall installers' cutout tools).
>
>The electricians fold them back into the box.
I wired 2 boxes with coax and speaker wire between them before the drywall went up
in my home last July. I had carefully (I thought) rolled up and folded the wire back
into both boxes. Granted, they pretty much filled the box, but they were in the box.
2 weeks later, after the painters were pretty much done (Drywall hangers, Drywall
tape/floaters, guys who sprayed the texture, and then the painters had all been there)
I noticed something different about these 2 boxes. I looked closer at the wires-
both sets of wires had been trashed- One of the boxes had wires cut all the way
through, the others was partially severed.
Since I had wired it up myself, and hadn't noticed it sooner, I couldn't point
fingers at who actually cut it, but I suspect it was when the drywall guys cut out
the box.
G.
Chris Lewis
Gary Meyers <dbs...@arco.com> wrote:
>In article c...@dasher.cc.bellcore.com, pat...@dasher.cc.bellcore.com (patterson,george r) writes:
>>Eric Perozziello <e...@everest.Stanford.EDU> wrote:
>>>What is supposed to be done with the wires coming into the box?
>>>(So they don't get nicked by the drywall installers' cutout tools).
>>The electricians fold them back into the box.
>2 weeks later, after the painters were pretty much done (Drywall hangers, Drywall
>tape/floaters, guys who sprayed the texture, and then the painters had all been there)
>I noticed something different about these 2 boxes. I looked closer at the wires-
>both sets of wires had been trashed- One of the boxes had wires cut all the way
>through, the others was partially severed.
Having other contractors screw up your work is, unfortunately, a fact of life,
and will happen no matter what precautions you take.
During one renovation, where I was doing the electrical, the plumber
(a master, not merely a journeyman), nuked the cables inside the as-yet
uncovered stud walls three times (once by snagging it with a 4" diameter
drill and ripped the cable staples and boxes right off their studs),
and the general contractor "modified" tested circuits into dead
shorts twice. But *no* problems with the drywallers... You just encountered
a couple of sloppy ones.
In several of these cases, I had warned the plumber, and made special
allowances for work he was going to be doing. It got to be a standing
joke as to whether I'd scream at the plumber each day I came in...
That being said, it's still best to lay the wire into the boxes, and leave
the outlets and covers *off* before the drywallers come. That's better than
having the outlets destroyed, or otherwise coated with drywall mud.
In some cases, depending on the drywallers, covering the box with masking
tape would be a good idea. Depends on how they cut their openings.