Washing machine recommendations

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Craig Cockburn

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Jun 7, 2001, 7:16:59 PM6/7/01
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Hi

We're looking to replace our AEG washing machine as it seems to be
getting near the end of its useful life and is needing a few repairs to
it.

The engineer who had a look at it said that AEG isn't quite the brand it
used to be and that there are now better brands to consider.

I've had a look for reports on washing machine reviews online or
consumer sites and in news but can't find any info on recommended brands
or models (in the UK). My older copies of "Which?" are still in boxes
somewhere any may take some time to find so I'm not sure whether the
reports in May 2001 and August 2000 are worth digging out.

I've been quite pleased with the AEG machine but we've also had
whirlpool fridges and freezers which have been quite good and have had
indesit tumble driers and dishwashers which have also been good.

Is there any good websites or magazines covering this sort of thing or
does anyone have any recommendations or names of companies to avoid?

Tesco and Comet and Currys seem to be the main shops - are there any
others?

thanks
--
Craig Cockburn ("coburn"). E-commerce consultant
Webmaster of http://www.siliconglen.com/ - Scotland's Internet name
Scottish culture, internet, business, jokes, weddings and more!

Magnus Paterson

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Jun 8, 2001, 3:29:51 AM6/8/01
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Craig Cockburn wrote:

> Hi
>
> We're looking to replace our AEG washing machine as it seems to be
> getting near the end of its useful life and is needing a few repairs to
> it.
>
> The engineer who had a look at it said that AEG isn't quite the brand it
> used to be and that there are now better brands to consider.
>

Just bought a Miele, and it's superb, although it was horribly expensive.
The new Dyson looks interesting, too.

Now can I go and get a life??

Magnus


Andrena Maynard

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Jun 8, 2001, 5:50:25 AM6/8/01
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Hi,

OK I'm getting a bit fed up sounding like an ad for John Lewis - I don't
work for them incidentally!

You can't go wrong going there for any major appliances - they will match
prices and have an after sales service second to *none *. Sooo..... get
along there, get in the queue in the Electrical Department (basement) for
some help - they're pretty good on the unbiased brand advice malarky too :-)

Cheers, Andrena.
"Craig Cockburn" <cr...@SiliconGlen.com> wrote in message
news:tJeriDHr...@SiliconGlen.com...

Andrew MacCormack

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Jun 8, 2001, 6:17:18 AM6/8/01
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I just bought a freezer from

http://www.qed-uk.com/

and they were very cheap and excellent service. They deliver Saturdays
too for no extra charge.

--
___#--- Andrew MacCormack and...@tality.com
L_ _| Senior Design Engineer
| | Tality, Alba Campus, Livingston EH54 7HH, Scotland
! | Phone: +44 1506 595360 Fax: +44 1506 595959

T A L I T Y http://www.tality.com

Alan Brown

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Jun 8, 2001, 7:37:12 AM6/8/01
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We recently bought a Whirlpool dishwasher online from
www.vision-online.co.uk

Click on Home Creations

It was an incredible £210.00 cheaper that the price quoted by Comet.

Alan Brown

"Andrew MacCormack" <and...@tality.com> wrote in message
news:3B20A62E...@tality.com...

Graeme Dods

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Jun 8, 2001, 8:18:24 AM6/8/01
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"Magnus Paterson" <m...@roe.ac.uk> wrote in message news:<9fputf$6al$1...@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>...

> Craig Cockburn wrote:
>
> > Hi
> >
> > We're looking to replace our AEG washing machine as it seems to be
> > getting near the end of its useful life and is needing a few repairs to
> > it.
> >
> > The engineer who had a look at it said that AEG isn't quite the brand it
> > used to be and that there are now better brands to consider.

We bought a Bosch about 3 years back and at the time my wife did a
whole load of asking around to find out what was best. Many places
recommended Bosch (including John Lewis), but be aware that their
cheaper ones are made in Spain (I think) and are not as good a build
quality as the more expensive models which are made in Germany.

> Just bought a Miele, and it's superb, although it was horribly expensive.
> The new Dyson looks interesting, too.

Yeah, I thought the dual drum idea looked pretty good. Trouble is
they've gone for the similar range of hideous colour schemes as their
vacuum cleaners. Its okay to have a purple vacuum cleaner as you can
stick it away in a cupboard when you've finished, but such a design
would stick out like a sore thumb in the majority of kitchens (which
is probably why most other washing machines are plain old boring
white).

Graeme

P.S. Don't touch Creda, it was trying to get one of those repaired
that prompted us to look at another make (apparently the supply of
Creda spares is crap)

P.P.S. All the above is based on 3 year old experience and may be
total rubbish by now.

Luterin

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Jun 8, 2001, 11:16:04 AM6/8/01
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Check out www.epinions.com

...not sure how well products available in the UK are covered here, though.

-Lute.

"Craig Cockburn" <cr...@SiliconGlen.com> wrote in message
news:tJeriDHr...@SiliconGlen.com...

Jay

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Jun 8, 2001, 11:45:27 AM6/8/01
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Don't touch ariston either, when my new one was faulty the repair man said
hes sees far more and far newer ariston machines than anything else,
invested in a zanussi jet stream, and 6 weeks later I am happy...

Jay

"Luterin" <lut...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:9fqq7l$irr$1...@atlas.net.metrotor.on.ca...

micm

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Jun 8, 2001, 3:07:52 PM6/8/01
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"Craig Cockburn" <cr...@SiliconGlen.com> wrote in message
news:tJeriDHr...@SiliconGlen.com...

[Snip]

> Is there any good websites or magazines covering this sort of thing or
> does anyone have any recommendations or names of companies to avoid?

My Current machine is a Bosch - reliable, quiet and cleans and spics
well, though it does seem to take quite a while to do a wash especially
if there's a lot in it.

Stear clear of Hotpoint - I've known lots of their machines to go wrong
very quickly and very often. Similarly I've seen some Hoover machines
that have suffered from stupid design flaws that make them stop working.

> Tesco and Comet and Currys seem to be the main shops - are there any
> others?

There's John Lewis - competitive on price and generally throw in an
extra year's warranty and delivery. Their delivery doesn't include
installation though, so you'd have to do it yourself (not at all
difficult) or get someone to do it for you. Currys charge (IIRC) 16
quid for delivery and installation. Both will remove your old machine
if you want them to. Lewis' are probably the better bet, cause if you
do end up with a dodgy machine then the extra warranty can be
invaluable.


Cheers,
Mike.


Craig Cockburn

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Jun 8, 2001, 4:10:52 PM6/8/01
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Ann an sgriobhainn <9fqru8$eei$1...@sun-cc204.lut.ac.uk>, sgriobh Jay
<j.ar...@nospam.lboro.ac.uk>

>Don't touch ariston either, when my new one was faulty the repair man said
>hes sees far more and far newer ariston machines than anything else,
>invested in a zanussi jet stream, and 6 weeks later I am happy...
>
I looked up the August 2000 and May 2001 copies of Which? in the
Corstorphine library today, the first article is a big review on washing
machines and later in the magazine it talks about reliability. The
second article is a quick update on some new brands.

The reliable brands are as follows
Miele (1)
Bosch, Siemens (joint 2nd)
AEG 4th.

Less reliable brands include Whirlpool, Creda, Indesit, Hotpoint.

Recommended in the August 2000 issue is
Bosch Maxx WFL 2450 GB
This is still recommended as a best buy in the May 2001 issue. Best
price I've got for from a major dealer is a special internet/telephone
deal with Comet for £399. Shop price £30 more.


Recommended in the May 2001 issue is
AEG 72630 which is also £400. Looks like a really good machine and gets
a writeup for being reliable, quiet and easy to use.

I think I'll go for the Bosch though as it has greater reliability,
lower running costs, a bigger load capacity(6Kg) and a hot fill rather
than cold fill only. The filter looks easier to clean as well. The
normal retail price seems to be around £430 (Comet, Currys, John Lewis).
John Lewis initially quoted £450 but when I pointed out the Comet and
Currys prices, they dropped theirs to the same level. However, I doubt
John Lewis will match a telephone only deal of £399 or even the price at
garlandelectronics.com of £385.

Once you know exactly the model number it's quite easy to get prices out
of google!

thanks for the replies

Craig

Robert, (Auld Bob), Peffers

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Jun 8, 2001, 6:14:08 PM6/8/01
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"Craig Cockburn" <cr...@SiliconGlen.com> wrote in message
news:qqna69FM...@SiliconGlen.com...

> Ann an sgriobhainn <9fqru8$eei$1...@sun-cc204.lut.ac.uk>, sgriobh Jay
> <j.ar...@nospam.lboro.ac.uk>
> >Don't touch ariston either, when my new one was faulty the repair man
said
snip

>
> thanks for the replies
>
> Craig
>
>
>
> --
> Craig Cockburn ("coburn"). E-commerce consultant
> Webmaster of http://www.siliconglen.com/ - Scotland's Internet name
> Scottish culture, internet, business, jokes, weddings and more!
Frae Auld Bob Peffers:
Well, if it is reliability you are after, I would recommend a flat stone
down by a burnside. I use one now and again when out with our Motor Home. It
was handed down to my by my Grandmother and I think it will still be working
well when I pass it on to my Grand daughter.<G>
--
Aefauldlie,
Auld Bob Peffers,
b...@peffers50.freeserve.co.uk
Web Site, *The Eck's Files*
http://www.peffers50.freeserve.co.uk/


Craig Cockburn

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Jun 9, 2001, 5:43:54 PM6/9/01
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Ann an sgriobhainn <9fr8ek$99b$1...@neptunium.btinternet.com>, sgriobh micm
<micm...@bees.enterprise-plc.com>

>
>There's John Lewis - competitive on price and generally throw in an
>extra year's warranty and delivery. Their delivery doesn't include
>installation though, so you'd have to do it yourself (not at all
>difficult) or get someone to do it for you. Currys charge (IIRC) 16
>quid for delivery and installation. Both will remove your old machine
>if you want them to. Lewis' are probably the better bet, cause if you
>do end up with a dodgy machine then the extra warranty can be
>invaluable.
>
I called John Lewis today. They would take a week to consider matching
the telephone-only offer from Comet by which time it will have expired
(Tuesday). So if I factor in delivery, price and removal of the old
appliance, John Lewis are currently a tenner more expensive. Comet also
throw in 6 months interest free credit and fit it. John Lewis don't do
interest free credit and don't fit it but do chuck in a years extra
warranty - on the face of it worth about £50 but with a reliable brand
this may be something I probably wouldn't use. They only deliver on
Mondays.

I'm somewhat tempted to go with Comet although John Lewis have been most
helpful and knowledgeable - the person I spoke to today explained why
many machines are now cold fill only for instance. The clincher for me
is that fitting the machine is non trivial and I had to get a plumber to
do it the last time because of the odd connection between the machine
outlet and the drainpipe. It isn't a straightforward plug the pipe in
job like it's been in my last two houses, instead the pipe from the
current machine is the same size or slightly larger than the pipe outlet
off the sink. The two pipes are joined at a horizontal junction by a
piece of what seems to be stretch rubber which is over both pipes and
must have been fitted with considerable force or a special tool. Even a
jubilee clip would have been easy. The problem with getting John Lewis
to deliver the machine is that I'd likely need to arrange a plumber to
fit it, adding to cost and also meaning that there's no usable washing
machine in the meantime.

Comet in this instance offer a total service, whereas John Lewis don't
unfortunately.

bogus address

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Jun 7, 2001, 9:54:50 PM6/7/01
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>We're looking to replace our AEG washing machine as it seems to be
>getting near the end of its useful life and is needing a few repairs to
>it.
> Tesco and Comet and Currys seem to be the main shops - are there any
> others?

John Lewis. We got a Servis Easiwash 1000 from them when we moved here
3 years ago. It's never given us any trouble. The two selling points
about it being that:

(a) it's very heavily constructed, with lots of redundant metal to soak
up vibration - I *hate* the noise the damn things make.
(b) it has an utterly simple user interface - in my scheme of things,
any gadget with more hidden state than a wooden spoon has no
business hitting the market without on-screen help that draws
little red lines round the button you have to press next, PDF
manuals available on the web and a manufacturer-supported mailing
list for users of the device.

I'm not sure if they're still made.

========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html food intolerance data and recipes,
freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources

73115...@compuserve.com

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Jun 9, 2001, 8:20:37 PM6/9/01
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I'm from the US, but have spent a considerable amount of time in the UK. Aside
from the inscrutable controls on UK washing machines that someone has already
mentioned, there is something I've never been able to figure out:

I can appreciate the fact that space is limited in a typical UK kitchen, thus
driving people to want the typical combo washer/dryer. What seems strange to me
is that the dryer cycle in these machines seems to be almost unvented.

All that seems to happen is that the washer gets *very* hot inside for a very
long time. When you open the door, you get lots of steam in your face.

It seems to be a very inefficient way to dry clothes, and hard on the fabric as
well. Why aren't these machines vented with some sort of blown air?

Richard Hamer

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Jun 9, 2001, 6:08:52 AM6/9/01
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Six months ago John Lewis told me they would match internet or mail order
prices, so long as the firm had a physical shop somewhere in the country.
What they have done for me in the past, for mail order firms, is match the
price plus P&P, which seems fair enough.

It's worth calling them to clarify though, and if you go on a Saturday when
they're busy, they are unlikely to match it on the spot, they'll charge you
the full amount, investigate the price match, and refund the rest later.

Rcih

"Craig Cockburn" <cr...@SiliconGlen.com> wrote in message

news:qqna69FM...@SiliconGlen.com...

Kenneth MacDonald

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Jun 10, 2001, 9:29:07 AM6/10/01
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>>>>> "Richard" == Richard Hamer <don...@nt.spam> writes:

Richard> It's worth calling them to clarify though, and if you go
Richard> on a Saturday when they're busy, they are unlikely to
Richard> match it on the spot, they'll charge you the full amount,
Richard> investigate the price match, and refund the rest later.

We bought a dishwasher from John Lewis which they had priced 20 quid
more than the cheapest I could find in Edinburgh (can't recall if it
was Comet, Sottish Power, or who). I paid them full price and then
they refunded me 40 pounds, making their new price even lower than the
one I found. Perhaps somebody else had found an even lower one in the
meantime.

We bought our washing machine from Scottish Power who had a year's
interest free credit and a five year warranty (refunded if not used).
However, buried in the small print was a requirement to register for
the refund option within seven days or so of purchase. Of course, I
only saw this bit later... whoops.

I know who I'll deal with in the future.

--
Kenny

ADML Support, EUCS, The University of Edinburgh, Scotland.

Tony Bryer

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Jun 10, 2001, 12:49:36 PM6/10/01
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In article <77...@purr.demon.co.uk>, Bogus address wrote:
> (b) it has an utterly simple user interface

My thoughts to. Have you ever read the book "The design of
everyday things"? describing how often TPTB get it wrong.

As I am a self-confessed technophile, friends of mine were
somewhat surprised when I told them that I had chosen my new
microwave by looking at them all on the shelves and choosing
almost the only one whose modus operandi was obvious just by
looking.

I bought a Zanussi washer-drier with an 'old fashioned' rotary
knob driving it and then began to wish I'd bought an electronic
one. Regrets vanished when my mother bought the latter; seriously
bizarre controls on the lines of 'Quick wash: press button A
twice, pause then press button B'. Lose the instructions and
you're sunk.

Tony Bryer

Tony Bryer

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Jun 10, 2001, 12:49:37 PM6/10/01
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In article <kte5itc3r6nk1oimn...@4ax.com>, wrote:
> I can appreciate the fact that space is limited in a typical UK kitchen,
> thus driving people to want the typical combo washer/dryer. What seems
> strange to me is that the dryer cycle in these machines seems to be
> almost unvented.

No they condense (or should condense) the steam and pump it out the waste.
Should you be using such a machine off the sinks taps you have to leave it
connected while drying as it needs cold water for the condenser.

Note that the amount such machines will dry properly is only half the wash
load.

Tony Bryer

73115...@compuserve.com

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Jun 10, 2001, 3:34:34 PM6/10/01
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Tony Bryer <to...@sda.co.uk> wrote:

>No they condense (or should condense) the steam and pump it out the waste.
>Should you be using such a machine off the sinks taps you have to leave it
>connected while drying as it needs cold water for the condenser.
>
>Note that the amount such machines will dry properly is only half the wash
>load.

Interesting... I never realized that was how they worked.

Thanks!

Paul Aitken

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Jun 10, 2001, 6:00:46 PM6/10/01
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Tony Bryer wrote:
>
> I bought a Zanussi washer-drier with an 'old fashioned' rotary
> knob driving it and then began to wish I'd bought an electronic
> one.

One advantage of the rotary control is that you can interrupt the preset
program and make it jump to wherever you want - eg you can start the
60degC wash to get a hot fill, then jump into the normally cold-filling
40degC wash so you don't have to heat the water so much. Of course, this
isn't recommended if your hot water tank is over 40degC!

Again, you can stop the program mid-cycle and restart it from the point
you left off, which is handy if your mains supply is prone to failure!

Or if you have a program that ends with a slow spin, you can interrupt
it and jump straight into a fast spin.

Electronic controls prevent you from doing any of this. In short, one
has no control over ones controls!

NB followups strictly limited!
--
Paul

Sam Wilson

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Jun 11, 2001, 5:24:33 AM6/11/01
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In article <wxCssICa...@SiliconGlen.com>, Craig Cockburn
<cr...@SiliconGlen.com> wrote:

> ... The clincher for me
> is that fitting the machine is non trivial ...


>
> Comet in this instance offer a total service, whereas John Lewis don't
> unfortunately.

You want to make sure that Comet will really do the fitting and not do a
"sorry mate, that's not included" when you show them your non-standard
outlet pipe.

--
Sam Wilson
Network Services Division, Computing Services
The University of Edinburgh
Edinburgh, Scotland, UK

Terry S

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Jun 11, 2001, 7:39:21 AM6/11/01
to

Ditto Question from Eastern Canada.

But this question might be better addressed to the <uk.d-i-y> news
group?
Lot of knowledgeable people there!

By way of comment. Our dryer is now 39 years old, same age as our oldest
child; we found diapers (nappies) frozen solidly to the clothes line on
our windswept hillside above the North Atlantic in the winter of 1962/63
to be too much of a chore!
The unit is 'bog standard' North American style which are always vented
outside. I mean nobody wants pounds of water vapour floating around
inside the dwelling, do they?
Over the years we have had to repair it (ourselves) some 7 times. Most
repairs were the usual sort of thing.
Replaced the timer switch once and 'tiddled up' a bad contact on it
once. Replaced the heater once (the heater operates on 230 volts btw)
and the centre bearing twice and most recently a plastic circle and the
felt ring that supports the front of the rotating drum where it fits
into the loading door; the parts for this cost $62 (blimey!). The blower
belt was replaced once and the drum drive belt once.
The major repair however, which most people would not normally attempt,
had to with the one third horsepower 115 volt motor which drives the
blower and rotates the drum. In this model there is a set of heavy duty
contacts which have nothing to do with the motor itself, the purpose of
which is to open the heater circuit if the motor stops rotating to
prevent singeing the clothes!
The normal recourse would be to replace the whole motor at a cost then
(some 12-15 years ago) of at least $100 to $150p! Not having paid that
much for the whole dryer, back when, and also because it was a weekend,
another measure was required. In short we rigged a 230 volt relay so
that it only operated after the motor had started. The 'make' contacts
of the relay were inserted into the heater circuit in place of the
original contacts which were badly burnt up after some 24 years of use.
A couple of years later we modified the circuit again so that now all
the functions of the dryer; for example opening the door while the unit
is running controls the relay which is now the only device that switches
the heavy current of the IIRC 3.5 kilowatt heater on or off. It appears
that the the electrical contacts of the various controls and switches
will now last for ever (and I have a spare relay to boot).
Oh btw must go and get the towels off the clothes line. After weeks of
RDF they dried quite nicely today.
But the basic question remains; what happens to the water vapour (steam)
from the drying clothes in a UK dryer? Does it condense and drain away
somewhere?
Terry.

aris

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Jun 11, 2001, 12:48:16 PM6/11/01
to
Craig Cockburn <cr...@SiliconGlen.com> wrote in message news:<qqna69FM...@SiliconGlen.com>...

> I think I'll go for the Bosch though as it has greater reliability,
> lower running costs, a bigger load capacity(6Kg) and a hot fill rather
> than cold fill only. The filter looks easier to clean as well. The

> normal retail price seems to be around Ł430 (Comet, Currys, John Lewis).
> John Lewis initially quoted Ł450 but when I pointed out the Comet and

> Currys prices, they dropped theirs to the same level. However, I doubt

> John Lewis will match a telephone only deal of Ł399 or even the price at
> garlandelectronics.com of Ł385.

You wanna bet?

My local John Lewis (Watford) will price match internet prices - as long as you
take into account the delivery cost.

I bought a Bosch WFK2801 from them and they matched the cheapest internet price
I could find at http://www.rtd.uk.com/ - plus threw in an extra years guarantee.

Aris

Simon Brooke

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Jun 12, 2001, 6:28:23 AM6/12/01
to
Craig Cockburn <cr...@SiliconGlen.com> writes:

> Hi
>
> We're looking to replace our AEG washing machine as it seems to be
> getting near the end of its useful life and is needing a few repairs
> to it.

My advice: get something strong and simple, rather than something with
lots of 'features' to go wrong. I had an old Indesit which, because it
was simple to repair, I kept running for seventeen years, which is
quite a useful lifespan. This is not a recommendation of modern
Indesits...

--
si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

There are no messages. The above is just a random stream of
bytes. Any opinion or meaning you find in it is your own creation.

Simon Brooke

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Jun 12, 2001, 6:30:33 AM6/12/01
to
dod...@my-deja.com (Graeme Dods) writes:
>
> Yeah, I thought the dual drum idea looked pretty good. Trouble is
> they've gone for the similar range of hideous colour schemes as their
> vacuum cleaners. Its okay to have a purple vacuum cleaner as you can
> stick it away in a cupboard when you've finished, but such a design
> would stick out like a sore thumb in the majority of kitchens (which
> is probably why most other washing machines are plain old boring
> white).

Hmmmm... we've been thinking about a Dyson not because we need a new
washing machine but just because we think it looks stunning. No
accounting for taste...

micm

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Jun 12, 2001, 2:58:14 PM6/12/01
to

"Simon Brooke" <si...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote in message
news:878ziyt...@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk...

> dod...@my-deja.com (Graeme Dods) writes:
> >
> > Yeah, I thought the dual drum idea looked pretty good. Trouble is
> > they've gone for the similar range of hideous colour schemes as
their
> > vacuum cleaners. Its okay to have a purple vacuum cleaner as you can
> > stick it away in a cupboard when you've finished, but such a design
> > would stick out like a sore thumb in the majority of kitchens (which
> > is probably why most other washing machines are plain old boring
> > white).
>
> Hmmmm... we've been thinking about a Dyson not because we need a new
> washing machine but just because we think it looks stunning. No
> accounting for taste...

Your view might change when you see the price :-)


Mike.


Kostas Kavoussanakis

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Jun 13, 2001, 4:33:03 AM6/13/01
to
On Sat, 9 Jun 2001, Craig Cockburn wrote:

> the person I spoke to today explained why
> many machines are now cold fill only for instance.

Could you please tell us too?

TIA,
Kostas (with a washing machine probably on its last legs)

Brenda

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Jun 13, 2001, 7:38:17 AM6/13/01
to

I have had a GE front load washer for 6 months & it is wonderful! I wash my
fine stuff with no ill effects. It uses only 2 TBSP of detergent max & my water
& sewer bills were more than HALF OFF!

In article <Pine.SOL.4.21.0106111056380.3973-100000@granite>, Kostas
Kavoussanakis says...

Terry S

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Jun 13, 2001, 8:52:02 AM6/13/01
to

Simon Brooke wrote:

> Hmmmm... we've been thinking about a Dyson not because we need a new
> washing machine but just because we think it looks stunning. No
> accounting for taste...

Oh my dear: I'm not that affluent that I would consider changing any
appliance which costs of the order of $500 (roughly 250 quid) or more,
just because of the colour! Although we did get our kitchen fridge
resprayed to match a new stove some 15? years ago, by a neighbour who
operates a car repair shop!

So the best way to describe our previously mentioned 39 year old 'bog
standard', no extra features dryer, would be "Chipped White". (Plus a
few stains and rust spots, it having been in two houses over that time
period) and done a certain amount of laundering for a small business! It
shows every intention of continuing with occasional maintenance.
Maintenance has we figure cost a total of $250 to $300 over the 39
years.

We have found that properly maintaining and familiarity with a reliable
item is extremely worth while, up to the point that it becomes
unreliable or too much effort or too costly to maintain. So, recently we
did buy a new 14 cu. foot 'All Fridge' (i.e. no small freezer
compartment) for one of our locations at a total cost of $781 Can.
(roughly 330 quid) delivery included.

For the same reason we have resolved never again to buy new motor
vehicles. Manufacturers and dealers seem to put so much effort into
trying to sell you the 'Newest brightest colour with the newest unproved
gizmos'. Then, three years later, six months after the so called "All
inclusive Warranty" expires (watch out for those exceptions), problems!
So better to have something with a proven record; rather than spend the
time and effort arguing with suppliers and manufacturers. Arguments
which sometimes comprise the subject of postings to this news group!

So this is not one of those 'rants' which some rudely attribute to "Tree
Huggers" and "Friends of the Earth activists"; it's more a "Use it fully
to it's maximum worth" homily! What was the old saying? "Waste not, want
not"; maybe?

Terry. Eastern Canada.

Callum Sword

unread,
Jun 11, 2001, 3:37:11 AM6/11/01
to Craig Cockburn

Craig Cockburn wrote:

How much do you trust the plumber supplied by Comet?

Callum Sword

unread,
Jun 11, 2001, 3:35:27 AM6/11/01
to

Craig Cockburn wrote:

They did for me. Did you try it?

Duncan Dewar

unread,
Jun 13, 2001, 1:12:35 PM6/13/01
to
Brenda <nos...@newsranger.com> writes:

> I have had a GE front load washer for 6 months & it is wonderful! I wash my
> fine stuff with no ill effects. It uses only 2 TBSP of detergent max & my water
> & sewer bills were more than HALF OFF!

How do they assess your sewerage bills?
--
Duncan Dewar
dunca...@bute.org.uk

Craig Cockburn

unread,
Jun 13, 2001, 4:14:39 PM6/13/01
to
Ann an sgriobhainn <3B2761F2...@nf.sympatico.ca>, sgriobh Terry S
<tsan...@nf.sympatico.ca>

>
>
>Simon Brooke wrote:
>
>> Hmmmm... we've been thinking about a Dyson not because we need a new
>> washing machine but just because we think it looks stunning. No
>> accounting for taste...
>
>Oh my dear: I'm not that affluent that I would consider changing any
>appliance which costs of the order of $500 (roughly 250 quid) or more,
>just because of the colour! Although we did get our kitchen fridge
>resprayed to match a new stove some 15? years ago, by a neighbour who
>operates a car repair shop!
>
The Dyson is about a thousand pounds I believe or $1,400.

Completely outrageous.

Craig Cockburn

unread,
Jun 13, 2001, 4:13:18 PM6/13/01
to
Ann an sgriobhainn <Pine.SOL.4.21.0106111056380.3973-100000@granite>,
sgriobh Kostas Kavoussanakis <kavo...@epcc.ed.ac.uk>

>On Sat, 9 Jun 2001, Craig Cockburn wrote:
>
>> the person I spoke to today explained why
>> many machines are now cold fill only for instance.
>
>Could you please tell us too?
>
Apparently it's to do with the way the detergent works. It seems to work
better by starting cold and then warming up - with hot fill then the
detergent heats too quickly and I guess the enzymes get denatured ?

Britain is fairly unusual regarding hot fill - most of the EU is cold
fill only and manufacturers have to convert their machines for the UK
market because people seem reluctant to buy cold fill only machines,
despite the fact that the hot intake is only used for the hottest washes
anyway.

Craig

Richard Tobin

unread,
Jun 13, 2001, 5:48:33 PM6/13/01
to
In article <iki4pcDel8J7Ew7$@SiliconGlen.com>,

Craig Cockburn <cr...@SiliconGlen.com> wrote:
>Britain is fairly unusual regarding hot fill - most of the EU is cold
>fill only and manufacturers have to convert their machines for the UK
>market because people seem reluctant to buy cold fill only machines,
>despite the fact that the hot intake is only used for the hottest washes
>anyway.

Our machine uses the hot intake even at 40C. And since we have gas
water heating, it's cheaper than having the machine heat it
electrically.

-- Richard
--
Spam filter: to mail me from a .com/.net site, put my surname in the headers.

FreeBSD rules!

Brenda

unread,
Jun 13, 2001, 6:24:07 PM6/13/01
to
In article <wkd7889...@ardbeg.bute.org.uk>, Duncan Dewar says...

The Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District bills you 3 times the water bill as
your sewer usage bill. In the summer, you are not charged for watering the lawn
based on winter water usage minus summer usage.

Any other questions, do phone them at 216-881-8247


ttfn35

unread,
Jun 13, 2001, 10:35:17 PM6/13/01
to
Brenda wrote:

> The Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District bills you
> 3 times the water bill as your sewer usage bill.

Boy, Ohions do eat.

Here (UK), sewerage gets billed as 90% of the water used.

ttfn35

unread,
Jun 13, 2001, 10:35:18 PM6/13/01
to
In article <3B2761F2...@nf.sympatico.ca>, Terry S wrote:

> We have found that properly maintaining and familiarity with a reliable
> item is extremely worth while, up to the point that it becomes
> unreliable or too much effort or too costly to maintain.

There's a hidden message there about spare part availability in Canada.
I wouldn't have thought there was a hope-in-hell's chance of getting
a (new) component for a 39 year old appliance here in the UK.

> For the same reason we have resolved never again to buy new motor
> vehicles. Manufacturers and dealers seem to put so much effort into
> trying to sell you the 'Newest brightest colour with the newest unproved
> gizmos'. Then, three years later, six months after the so called "All
> inclusive Warranty" expires (watch out for those exceptions), problems!
> So better to have something with a proven record;

A late mechanic friend always recommended buying the very last car model
produced. That way, he reckoned, all the faults that could be ironed out,
had been.


Ana

unread,
Jun 14, 2001, 8:53:01 AM6/14/01
to
Don't bother with an Indesit they are absolute Crap and I am fed up to the
back teeth of mine. The spin cycle is so tempremental, I have had the
repiar man out three times already from when it was nine months old, only 14
months old now. I have had a load in and it has taken three spin cycles to
drain the water.

Absolute Rubbish and I would never touch Indesit for anything ever again.

Ana


"Craig Cockburn" <cr...@SiliconGlen.com> wrote in message

news:tJeriDHr...@SiliconGlen.com...


> Hi
>
> We're looking to replace our AEG washing machine as it seems to be
> getting near the end of its useful life and is needing a few repairs to
> it.
>

> The engineer who had a look at it said that AEG isn't quite the brand it
> used to be and that there are now better brands to consider.
>
> I've had a look for reports on washing machine reviews online or
> consumer sites and in news but can't find any info on recommended brands
> or models (in the UK). My older copies of "Which?" are still in boxes
> somewhere any may take some time to find so I'm not sure whether the
> reports in May 2001 and August 2000 are worth digging out.
>
> I've been quite pleased with the AEG machine but we've also had
> whirlpool fridges and freezers which have been quite good and have had
> indesit tumble driers and dishwashers which have also been good.
>
> Is there any good websites or magazines covering this sort of thing or
> does anyone have any recommendations or names of companies to avoid?
>
> Tesco and Comet and Currys seem to be the main shops - are there any
> others?
>
> thanks


> --
> Craig Cockburn ("coburn"). E-commerce consultant
> Webmaster of http://www.siliconglen.com/ - Scotland's Internet name
> Scottish culture, internet, business, jokes, weddings and more!


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.259 / Virus Database: 130 - Release Date: 05/06/2001


appl...@nemonet.com

unread,
Jun 14, 2001, 10:30:57 AM6/14/01
to
Does anyone have thoughts on the Fisher Paykel washing
machines?

http://usa.fisherpaykel.com/

I've seen one and the design looks very smart

Charlie Stross

unread,
Jun 14, 2001, 11:43:24 AM6/14/01
to
Stoned koala bears drooled eucalyptus spittle in awe
as <cr...@SiliconGlen.com> declared:

>I've had a look for reports on washing machine reviews online or
>consumer sites and in news but can't find any info on recommended brands
>or models (in the UK).

Strong recommendation: avoid Zanussi washer/driers -- or at least,
give them a serious going-over before you buy. I bought one three years
ago. It works okay: but there's a lint trap that is a complete pain in
the arse to deal with. Basically, every so often the machine simply
stops working and sulks -- you have to realise that you'd set it off
for a two-hour drying cycle and it's fallen silent after only fifteen
minutes. You then have to get a large drip tray and hunker down to unscrew
an inspection hatch and let half a gallon of disgusting soapy water out --
then remove a tongue-shaped lint catcher and go digging the unspeakable
mess of goop and filth and slimy fibre out of it. Only once you've done
this and sealed everything up will the machine start working again.

This happens about once every five washes and I've got a buggered
ligament in one knee, it's become a serious nuisance -- not *quite*
serious enough to buy a new washing machine, but getting there. I'm told
that this is a common design feature of many Zanussi washer/driers, and
if so, you want to avoid them. I mean, the whole idea of an automatic
washing machine is to save labour, right?

-- Charlie

Duncan Dewar

unread,
Jun 14, 2001, 1:02:50 PM6/14/01
to
Brenda <nos...@newsranger.com> writes:

> In article <wkd7889...@ardbeg.bute.org.uk>, Duncan Dewar says...
> >

> >How do they assess your sewerage bills?
>

> The Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District bills you 3 times the water bill as
> your sewer usage bill. In the summer, you are not charged for watering the lawn
> based on winter water usage minus summer usage.

That's interesting - here in Scotland in a dry summer, the water
authorities sometimes prohibit the use of hosepipes to conserve supplies.
--
Duncan Dewar
dunca...@bute.org.uk

Paul Aitken

unread,
Jun 14, 2001, 3:09:29 PM6/14/01
to
Charlie Stross wrote:
>
> Basically, every so often the [washing] machine simply

> stops working and sulks -- you have to realise that you'd set it off
> for a two-hour drying cycle and it's fallen silent after only fifteen
> minutes. You then have to get a large drip tray and hunker down to unscrew
> an inspection hatch and let half a gallon of disgusting soapy water out --
> then remove a tongue-shaped lint catcher and go digging the unspeakable
> mess of goop and filth and slimy fibre out of it. Only once you've done
> this and sealed everything up will the machine start working again.

Charlie,

Maybe you should wash your clothes more frequently so there's less goop,
filth and slimy fibre on them in the first place? ;-)
--
Paul

Charlie Stross

unread,
Jun 14, 2001, 4:02:53 PM6/14/01
to
Stoned koala bears drooled eucalyptus spittle in awe
as <pai...@cisco.com> declared:

>Maybe you should wash your clothes more frequently so there's less goop,
>filth and slimy fibre on them in the first place? ;-)

It's mostly washing powder, believe it or not!

The lint trap on these machines is, um, over-efficient ...


-- Charlie

Paul Aitken

unread,
Jun 14, 2001, 5:11:27 PM6/14/01
to
Charlie Stross wrote:
>
> >Maybe you should wash your clothes more frequently so there's less goop,
> >filth and slimy fibre on them in the first place? ;-)
>
> It's mostly washing powder, believe it or not!

It sounds as if the money you spend on washing powder is money, quite
literally, down the drain :-(

Maybe you're using too much powder so it's not dissolving properly? Do
you use one of those detergent balls? Perhaps consider liquid detergent?

I wonder what other folks consider is best?

> The lint trap on these machines is, um, over-efficient ...

I can hardly believe that washing powder gets caught in the lint trap???
But I'll take your word for it rather than request any evidence!
--
Paul

Craig Cockburn

unread,
Jun 14, 2001, 5:19:39 PM6/14/01
to
Ann an sgriobhainn <3B2474BF...@owl.co.uk>, sgriobh Callum Sword
<cal...@owl.co.uk>
They have now after I called them today, their second price reduction in
a week. Also I've decided not to buy from Comet as a combination of
losing my order and computer problems have meant they have no track of
my order after 3 days. John Lewis are delivering on Monday. Same price
as Comet but with an extra year's warranty.

Craig Cockburn

unread,
Jun 14, 2001, 5:20:20 PM6/14/01
to
Ann an sgriobhainn <slrn9ii63d....@antipope.nsl.co.uk>, sgriobh
Charlie Stross <cha...@nospam.antipope.org>

>Stoned koala bears drooled eucalyptus spittle in awe
>as <pai...@cisco.com> declared:
>
>>Maybe you should wash your clothes more frequently so there's less goop,
>>filth and slimy fibre on them in the first place? ;-)
>
>It's mostly washing powder, believe it or not!
>
Try liquid then, I haven't used powder for years.

Robert, (Auld Bob), Peffers

unread,
Jun 14, 2001, 6:10:44 PM6/14/01
to

"Charlie Stross" <cha...@nospam.antipope.org> wrote in message
news:slrn9ihmss....@antipope.nsl.co.uk...
Frae Auld Bob Peffers:
Now the funny thing is that most of the machines on the market are assembled
using parts that are common to most other brands of washing machine, i.e.
the parts are manufactured by sub-contractors and assembled by the named
brands. How then do they manage to get one machine to perform worse than
another?
--
Aefauldlie,
Auld Bob Peffers,
b...@peffers50.freeserve.co.uk
Web Site, *The Eck's Files*
http://www.peffers50.freeserve.co.uk/


Robert, (Auld Bob), Peffers

unread,
Jun 14, 2001, 6:20:13 PM6/14/01
to

"Paul Aitken" <pai...@cisco.com> wrote in message
news:3B290BE9...@cisco.com...
Frae Auld Bob Peffers:
The trouble is you are probably using too much powder/liquid/tablets. The
makers of the powder/liquid/tablets tell you to use a certain amount but you
have to bear in mind they are in the business of selling
powder/liquid/tablets for a vast profit.

Anyway my old Granny, bless her soul, told me many years ago it was the
rinsing that got the clothes clean and not the soap and washing. Granny
never used a washing machine in her life but her whites were better than
everyone else's. So use less gloopy stuff in the first place and give them a
full rinse, many machines have a super rinse setting), use it and/or give
the wash an extra rinse. I kid you not.

Charlie Stross

unread,
Jun 14, 2001, 6:13:03 PM6/14/01
to
Stoned koala bears drooled eucalyptus spittle in awe
as <cr...@SiliconGlen.com> declared:

>>>Maybe you should wash your clothes more frequently so there's less goop,
>>>filth and slimy fibre on them in the first place? ;-)
>>
>>It's mostly washing powder, believe it or not!
>>
>Try liquid then, I haven't used powder for years.

Show me some phosphate free environmentally friendly stuff and I'll
think about it. When I work through the current bunker-full.


-- Charlie

Charlie Stross

unread,
Jun 14, 2001, 6:14:40 PM6/14/01
to
Stoned koala bears drooled eucalyptus spittle in awe
as <pai...@cisco.com> declared:

>> The lint trap on these machines is, um, over-efficient ...


>
>I can hardly believe that washing powder gets caught in the lint trap???

Not as powder: as a sticky mass of matted fibres shed by fabric.

My guess is that they economized on the design and used the same U-bend
trap for both the dryer's condenser and for flushing out waste water. So
if fibres are blown there via the dryer, they tend to form a mat and
soak up grey-water foam on the way down the drain. Leading to a build-up
of ick.

-- Charlie

Paul Aitken

unread,
Jun 14, 2001, 6:37:39 PM6/14/01
to
Charlie Stross wrote:
>
> >Try liquid then, I haven't used powder for years.
>
> Show me some phosphate free environmentally friendly stuff and I'll
> think about it. When I work through the current bunker-full.

Tapwater?

--
Paul

Andrew MacCormack

unread,
Jun 15, 2001, 5:58:06 AM6/15/01
to
Charlie Stross wrote:
an inspection hatch and let half a gallon of disgusting soapy water out
--
> then remove a tongue-shaped lint catcher and go digging the unspeakable
> mess of goop and filth and slimy fibre out of it. Only once you've done
> this and sealed everything up will the machine start working again.
>
> This happens about once every five washes

My (tumble-dryer-only) Whirlpool manual recommends cleaning the
lint-catcher after EVERY load. Check your manual! Maybe this would be a
less arduous task if done pre-emptively when the machine wasn't in the
middle of a cycle...


--
___#--- Andrew MacCormack and...@tality.com
L_ _| Senior Design Engineer
| | Tality, Alba Campus, Livingston EH54 7HH, Scotland
! | Phone: +44 1506 595360 Fax: +44 1506 595959

T A L I T Y http://www.tality.com

Nadine White

unread,
Jun 18, 2001, 10:51:51 AM6/18/01
to
Simon Brooke wrote:
>
>My advice: get something strong and simple, rather than something with
>lots of 'features' to go wrong.

This pretty much described our old machine, although it did have some
top-of-the-line features (like high spin rate) when we bought it - many
years ago.

Our 21+ year-old Phillips washing machine has finally developed some un-
fixable leaks (they don't make the spare parts any more), so it's time
for us to get a new one.

Our machine was back from the days when a 'cold water wash' was unheard
of in this country, and before liquid washing detergent for those little
dispensing balls had become common in shops. So we <are> looking forward
to owning a machine that can actually deliver a cold water wash.

We are also looking to acquire a washer-dryer (condensing type). We very
much appreciate the earlier information on this list about <why> the
dryer loads are so small for these machines.

Aside from the 'Which' magazine recommendations, which we can track
down, I wonder if anyone who has switched recently from a washing
machine to a dual washer/drier would have any recommendations for us?

Thanks for any additional ideas.

Cheers!

Cheers!

Nadine Stah White
Abingdon, England

Robert Inder

unread,
Jun 18, 2001, 11:50:22 AM6/18/01
to

>>>>> Ana writes:
> Subject: Re: Washing machine recommendations
> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:53:01 +0100

> Don't bother with an Indesit they are absolute Crap and I am fed up to the
> back teeth of mine. The spin cycle is so tempremental, I have had the
> repiar man out three times already from when it was nine months old, only 14
> months old now. I have had a load in and it has taken three spin cycles to
> drain the water.

I'm not sure how a spin cycle can be "tempremental".

But if you are finding that it sometimes doesn't spin very well (so the
clothes are left damp), it could well be that you are overloading
the machine. A lot of machines change gear (literally) mid-way through the
spin: they spin up to something like half speed, then "change up".

The trick is, they only change up if the load is spinning smoothly at half
speed. So if the machine is overloaded, or if the load happens to
have arranged itself unevenly, the machine simply finishes the spin at half
speed and you get wetter-than-usual clothes.

I believe this protects the bearing from wear/damage from an eccentric
load.

Front-loader washing machines are rated to wash less than you'd think
to look at them...

Robert.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Inder
To avoid the spam trap, mail me at "bcs.org.uk", not "deadspam.com"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Best Viewed in Ebriated.
--

Duncan Dewar

unread,
Jun 18, 2001, 1:11:12 PM6/18/01
to
Robert Inder <rob...@deadspam.com> writes:
<snip>
> But if you are finding that it sometimes doesn't spin very well (so the
> clothes are left damp), it could well be that you are overloading
> the machine. A lot of machines change gear (literally) mid-way through the
> spin: they spin up to something like half speed, then "change up".

I've noticed this too - but I would have guessed that the speed change
was electrical rather than mechanical in nature - switching out a
resistance or switching the motor from series to parallel. Perhaps
this varies between makes?
--
Duncan Dewar
dunca...@bute.org.uk

Richard Kaulfuss

unread,
Jun 18, 2001, 6:15:46 PM6/18/01
to

Every washing machine I have seen in the last 20+ years has had
thyristor/triac speed control. It's a relatively simple matter to
vary the speed electronically. The drums are belt-driven directly
from the motor shaft - no gearbox involved. I can't say if the new
Dyson jobbie follows the same pattern.

--
Dick

Robert Inder

unread,
Jun 18, 2001, 6:29:47 PM6/18/01
to

>>>>> Duncan Dewar writes:
> Subject: Re: Washing machine recommendations
> Date: 18 Jun 2001 18:11:12 +0100

Possible. But having guddled around in a middle-aged
washing machine or two, my gut feeling is that mechanical
is more likely.

In any event, excessive or unbalanced load can often prevent
full-speed spinning...

> --
> Duncan Dewar
> dunca...@bute.org.uk

August West

unread,
Jun 18, 2001, 6:48:36 PM6/18/01
to
Robert Inder <rob...@deadspam.com> writes:

> >>>>> Duncan Dewar writes:
> > Subject: Re: Washing machine recommendations
> > Date: 18 Jun 2001 18:11:12 +0100
>
> > Robert Inder <rob...@deadspam.com> writes:
> > <snip>
> >> But if you are finding that it sometimes doesn't spin very well (so the
> >> clothes are left damp), it could well be that you are overloading
> >> the machine. A lot of machines change gear (literally) mid-way through the
> >> spin: they spin up to something like half speed, then "change up".
>
> > I've noticed this too - but I would have guessed that the speed change
> > was electrical rather than mechanical in nature - switching out a
> > resistance or switching the motor from series to parallel. Perhaps
> > this varies between makes?
>
> Possible. But having guddled around in a middle-aged
> washing machine or two, my gut feeling is that mechanical
> is more likely.

Yup: it's normally a centrifugal clutch, a split pulley, that reduces
in size at speed by "splitting" exposing a smaller diameted
pulley. Like a CVT car.

> In any event, excessive or unbalanced load can often prevent
> full-speed spinning...

So can a dud "kick" capacitor.

--
Do it. Or don't do it. Just don't mess around.

Ana

unread,
Jun 19, 2001, 4:43:53 AM6/19/01
to
I am not overloading the machine, in fact, I am weighing the load before
putting it into the machine to make sure.

The clothes are not just left damp, they are soaking wet. So maybe the spin
cycle is not tempremental, just knackered.

Ana
"Robert Inder" <rob...@deadspam.com> wrote in message
news:f517ky9...@auk.3lg.org...

Andrena Maynard

unread,
Jun 19, 2001, 8:27:28 AM6/19/01
to

"August West" <aug...@kororaa.com> wrote in message
news:Penguin.%.m2ofrl5rqz.fsf@news2.kororaa.c0m...

I'm having the same problem, sometimes sticking before the spin, but then
setting it to rinse again usually results in a - usually inefficient - spin.
My *question* is how do you define a "balanced load" - should I call a
therapist???

Andrena.

Craig Cockburn

unread,
Jun 19, 2001, 6:35:50 PM6/19/01
to
Ann an sgriobhainn <MbfJJcBH...@ifwtech.com>, sgriobh Nadine White
<Nad...@ifwtech.com>

>
>Aside from the 'Which' magazine recommendations, which we can track
>down, I wonder if anyone who has switched recently from a washing
>machine to a dual washer/drier would have any recommendations for us?
>
We've now got the Bosch washing machine I mentioned in the start of this
thread and after all managed to fit it myself, fairly straightforward
once I'd dismantled the connection from the old one. The most difficult
bit about fitting it turn out to be moving about 80Kg of machine off the
fitted polystyrene base of the packing without damaging the floor or
myself :-)

The machine is fine and lives up to the good review it good in Which -
one thing which is a bit of a surprise though is that the controls for
setting the programme are _very_ easy to adjust. Too easy in fact. Out
18 month old daughter can very easily adjust the temperature from cold
wash up to 90c without much effort at all. Not only does this have
potentially adverse consequences for the washing but any change at all
in the wash temperature seems to set the electronic wash progress meter
back to the start, adding another hour to the wash. My wife called me
after the machine had been on the same wash for over 4 hours (!) and
this turned out to be the cause. The AEG we used to have had a stiff
rotary control to indicate wash progress and you could manually set it
where you want in the unlikely event it was interfered with by small
hands. There is an override with the Bosch though which allows you to
rinse, spin and drain and end the cycle quickly rather than waiting all
day :-)

Craig

Callum Sword

unread,
Jun 20, 2001, 3:12:54 AM6/20/01
to

Craig Cockburn wrote:

> The machine is fine and lives up to the good review it good in Which -
> one thing which is a bit of a surprise though is that the controls for
> setting the programme are _very_ easy to adjust. Too easy in fact. Out
> 18 month old daughter can very easily adjust the temperature from cold
> wash up to 90c without much effort at all. Not only does this have
> potentially adverse consequences for the washing but any change at all
> in the wash temperature seems to set the electronic wash progress meter
> back to the start, adding another hour to the wash. My wife called me
> after the machine had been on the same wash for over 4 hours (!) and
> this turned out to be the cause. The AEG we used to have had a stiff
> rotary control to indicate wash progress and you could manually set it
> where you want in the unlikely event it was interfered with by small
> hands. There is an override with the Bosch though which allows you to
> rinse, spin and drain and end the cycle quickly rather than waiting all
> day :-)
>
> Craig
>

Slightly suprised to see there's no child lock, then. Or is that just on the
door?

Built-in machines do have *some* advantages then - you can fit a door lock
to them...