Weil-Mclain or Burnham boiler, which is better?
Alan Faber
I am about to purchase a new oil burning boiler with tankless water
heater. I have received 4 quotes from heating contractors. Two of them
recommended Burnham boilers but said they could give me Weil-Mclain if I
preferred. Two of them recommended Weil-Mclain but said they could give
me Burnham if I preferred. Non of them mentioned an advantage or
disadvantage of either make. Does anybody know firsthand if one of
these would be a better buy?
In addition, the units recommended ranged in output (net I=B=R) from
105,000 BTU to 130,000 BTU/hr. Does a difference of 20% make a big
difference? Would the smaller unit save me money? How do I figure out
who figured out my true requirements and who estimated too large or too
small a unit?
Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Alan Faber
Gaithersburg, MD
Stephen M. Henning
> I am about to purchase a new oil burning boiler with tankless water
> heater. I have received 4 quotes from heating contractors. Two of them
> recommended Burnham boilers but said they could give me Weil-Mclain if I
> preferred. Two of them recommended Weil-Mclain but said they could give
> me Burnham if I preferred. Non of them mentioned an advantage or
> disadvantage of either make. Does anybody know firsthand if one of
> these would be a better buy?
My experience is that they are both very good. I would pick the dealer
that I liked best and go with his recommendation.
--
Cheers, Steve Henning, Reading, Pennsylvania, USA
Correct email address is shen...@fast.net (Please forgive my spam deterrent)
Visit my home page at http://www.users.fast.net/~shenning
oem
I've had Weil McClain for over 25 years and am quite satisfied. My
recommendation, therefore would be for the Mc. I'm assuming that both are
Cast Iron, but if not, I'd stick to the CI model Weil McClain. As to the
size, .... good question. I'm a firm believer in qoing "oversize" to have
some reserve capacity in the event of "the big freeze." Others recommend
sizing right to the line but jacking up the temperature to make up for the
reduced BTU reserve. The benefits of NOT oversizing are that the burner
runs at optimum efficiency. Since the system is most efficient when it is
hot and running, you lose efficiency if it stops and starts often ... short
cycles. The benefits of oversizing are .... hmmm ... I know there are
some, but I can't thimk of any off hand. I just feel a little more
comfortable with the reserve. As it's happened, since the original boiler
was installed, I've added more radiation in some rooms that were previously
unfinished and still have one more to do, so maybe that has something to do
with my feelings ... I'm always messing with the system.
Alan Faber <fab...@erols.com> wrote in article
<34C4ACCB...@erols.com>...
> I am about to purchase a new oil burning boiler with tankless water
> heater. I have received 4 quotes from heating contractors. Two of them
> recommended Burnham boilers but said they could give me Weil-Mclain if I
> preferred. Two of them recommended Weil-Mclain but said they could give
> me Burnham if I preferred. Non of them mentioned an advantage or
> disadvantage of either make. Does anybody know firsthand if one of
> these would be a better buy?
>
dkolton
oem wrote:
>
As to the
> size, .... good question. I'm a firm believer in qoing "oversize" to have
> some reserve capacity in the event of "the big freeze." Others recommend
> sizing right to the line but jacking up the temperature to make up for the
> reduced BTU reserve. The benefits of NOT oversizing are that the burner
> runs at optimum efficiency. Since the system is most efficient when it is
> hot and running, you lose efficiency if it stops and starts often ... short
> cycles. The benefits of oversizing are .... hmmm ... I know there are
> some, but I can't thimk of any off hand.
> Alan Faber <fab...@erols.com> wrote in article
>> I have received 4 quotes from heating contractors. Two of them
> > recommended Burnham boilers but said they could give me Weil-Mclain if I
> > preferred. Two of them recommended Weil-Mclain but said they could give
> > me Burnham if I preferred. Non of them mentioned an advantage or
> > disadvantage of either make. Does anybody know firsthand if one of
> > these would be a better buy?
> >
Really not much difference in the two manufacturers from the contractors
i talked to prior to getting a Weil-McLean (sp)... As for the
"overcapacity", let me add that todays boilers really hold almost NO
water, thus the higher BTU value is the amount of transfer while running
water through the system at any given time. This overcapacity lends
itself to running more burners to generate more heat than may be
necessary. A little over is better that "just right", but a lot over is
a major waste fo energy. SOrta like a full size fridge/freezer holding
only a gallon of milk and one tv dinner.
WHichever you choose, your most important choice is the contractor you
work with. They all over charge if you calculate hours v. installation
cost. and they all mark up the original cost of the boiler from the
plumbing/heating supply house by some 20-40%. For what they get, you
should get EXCEPTIONAL service for your money.
dan
--
I swim....
therefor I am....
wet.
dan
(e-mail responses to -- dko...@ricochet.net -- )
***barrett***
ditto for me on the weil mcclain....i am delighted with mine. it runs
all year long as it makes hot water too......tune up once a year. and it
is a happy well running machine.
oem wrote:
>
> I've had Weil McClain for over 25 years and am quite satisfied. My
> recommendation, therefore would be for the Mc. I'm assuming that both are
> Cast Iron, but if not, I'd stick to the CI model Weil McClain. As to the
> size, .... good question. I'm a firm believer in qoing "oversize" to have
> some reserve capacity in the event of "the big freeze." Others recommend
> sizing right to the line but jacking up the temperature to make up for the
> reduced BTU reserve. The benefits of NOT oversizing are that the burner
> runs at optimum efficiency. Since the system is most efficient when it is
> hot and running, you lose efficiency if it stops and starts often ... short
> cycles. The benefits of oversizing are .... hmmm ... I know there are
> some, but I can't thimk of any off hand. I just feel a little more
> comfortable with the reserve. As it's happened, since the original boiler
> was installed, I've added more radiation in some rooms that were previously
> unfinished and still have one more to do, so maybe that has something to do
> with my feelings ... I'm always messing with the system.
>
> Alan Faber <fab...@erols.com> wrote in article
> <34C4ACCB...@erols.com>...
> > I am about to purchase a new oil burning boiler with tankless water
> > heater. I have received 4 quotes from heating contractors. Two of them
> > recommended Burnham boilers but said they could give me Weil-Mclain if I
> > preferred. Two of them recommended Weil-Mclain but said they could give
> > me Burnham if I preferred. Non of them mentioned an advantage or
> > disadvantage of either make. Does anybody know firsthand if one of
> > these would be a better buy?
> >
> > In addition, the units recommended ranged in output (net I=B=R) from
> > 105,000 BTU to 130,000 BTU/hr. Does a difference of 20% make a big
> > difference? Would the smaller unit save me money? How do I figure out
> > who figured out my true requirements and who estimated too large or too
> > small a unit?
> >
> > Any advice would be appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Alan Faber
> > Gaithersburg, MD
> >
> >
--
Address removed due to way too much spam
Jim Sokoloff
dkolton <NOSPAM-...@ricochet.net> writes:
> WHichever you choose, your most important choice is the contractor you
> work with. They all over charge if you calculate hours v. installation
> cost. and they all mark up the original cost of the boiler from the
> plumbing/heating supply house by some 20-40%. For what they get, you
> should get EXCEPTIONAL service for your money.
How could it be that they "all over charge"? This just can't exist in
anything close to a free market economy...
It may be your opinion that they charge too much, but that is just not
borne out by the complete absence of a lower-cost supplier. If it's so
lucrative, either DIY or start your own HVAC company charging
less. :-)
---Jim
dkolton
Jim,
The boiler I recently put in "cost" roughly $1400. The peripheral items
(controller, vent hood, etc) ran approx another few hundred. To take
out the old one, and install the new one ran almost $5000.00. This was
a similar quote I rec'd from several contractors. The man-hours
involved (as i was there most of the time) amounted to roughly 20
hours. Now, if you assume parts at a high of $2k, and 20 man hours..
heck, lets call it a high of 30 man hours over 3K, you are paying a
minimum $100/hr for an install. In my book, that is high any way you
look at it. Then again, I also think that roughly $65.00/hr for a
plumber to sweat water lines is high too, so I now do all that work
myself.
Thus, in reply to your answer, yes, I STILL think they overcharge, and
yes, I now do it myself. In fact, I am getting so good at this stuff, I
plan on rebuilding the stack off the boiler next to zone the house,
something I discussed with the original installer who still managed to
build it wrong anyway.
Lastly, I have a friend who manufactures boiler control systems in
another state. The systems he sells to the local contractors sell for
hundreds to low 1 grand depending on complexity. The contractors
usually double or triple the price, then add labor for the install. And
they ALL do it that way per my friend.
I have no particular bone to pick w/HVAC people. I had a different
company put GFA in a new vacation home, w/heat pump, all ducting, air
handler, supplemental heat strips, etc. They did it all for what my new
boiler cost me. This gave me a much better perspective of what I get
for my dollar when there is a more competitive market. (the vacation
home is in a less populated area w/more competition).
--