[Q] wall framing: to offset sill plate or not?
Fred Christiansen
Some of the construction how-to books I've read tell you to back off your
sill plate (and thus the walls) from the foundation's edge 1/2" (to adjust
for the sheathing). However, one very helpful how-to book (_Build Your
Own Home_, Ten Speed Press; authored by the gentleman who created the
Owner-Builder Center in, I think, Berkeley) says there's no need to do so;
the only reason folk do so, he says, is to hide the sheathing, for cosmetic
reasons, should someone happen to be rolling on the ground and staring up
under your siding.
To needlessly lose 1/2" around the perimeter of a house, and thereby a
few square feet, seems silly. OTOH, maybe there's a good reason, esp for
certain climes.
Comments? (the excavator starts today, so soon I shall be framing)
--
Fred Christiansen, a Canajan (Eh?) and HP-ite in Colorado
#include <disclaimer.h>: I do NOT speak for HP, only for myself.
Business: http://talon.fc.hp.com/~fredch/ fre...@fc.hp.com
Personal: http://www.frii.com/~fredch/ fre...@frii.com
David S
most people will do that to save on sheathing , a little trick
contractors pull
Andrew Kelly
fre...@fc.hp.com (Fred Christiansen) wrote:
<snip>
>To needlessly lose 1/2" around the perimeter of a house, and thereby a
>few square feet, seems silly. OTOH, maybe there's a good reason, esp for
>certain climes.
>Comments? (the excavator starts today, so soon I shall be framing)
The only possible thing I can think of is to prevent wicking in an
unsealed edge that may be exposed to weather. It's much easier to
seal that it is to set back. In fact, you'll most likely find that
you'll be hanging your green plate in places to get a good line and a
square deck. After framing over a hundred homes I have never, and I
mean NEVER seen a pour clean enough to lay to.
The realities of stick framing don't show up in the books. Stay
flexible, ask for advice but don't be afraid NOT to take it, keep a
clean deck and a tidy scrap pile, quit at 6, buy yourself a beer, and
never forget, swinging a hammer on your own mortgage is something
special. Have fun.
Oh, and if a building wrap salesman starts barking up your tree fork
the evil eye at him and run like hell.
And (God I miss framing) rew
It's not lost papa, it's just really hard to find.
--K. Max Kelly
Jim Ilkay
>> Fred Christiansen wrote:
> >
> > Some of the construction how-to books I've read tell you to back off
your
> > sill plate (and thus the walls) from the foundation's edge 1/2" (to
adjust
> > for the sheathing). However, one very helpful how-to book (_Build Your
> > Own Home_, Ten Speed Press; authored by the gentleman who created the
> > Owner-Builder Center in, I think, Berkeley) says there's no need to do
so;
> > the only reason folk do so, he says, is to hide the sheathing, for
cosmetic
> > reasons, should someone happen to be rolling on the ground and staring
up
> > under your siding.
> >
> David S <dswy...@direct.ca> wrote in article
<3259BF...@direct.ca>...
> most people will do that to save on sheathing , a little trick
> contractors pull
>
I'd like to know how many professional contractors there are out there who
are trying to find ways to cheat an extra 1/2" of plywood off a sub-floor.
Take a look at most job sites and see if you can find any that don't have
lots of plywood decking on the scrap heap.
A common reason to back the sill plate off the foundation edge is to allow
room for insulating sheathing such as Syrofoam SM or R-Max board under the
siding. A little trick contractors pull.
--
Jim Ilkay
First Professional Building Corp.
(512) 835-2884
(512) 835-2668 Fax
bui...@texas.net
Rick Davis
No kidding Jim, It has always been my experience that the plans have
dimensions on them. So if you need an extra 1/2", have the plans drawn
to reflect that.
Rick
Fred Christiansen
Andrew Kelly (gad...@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
> The only possible thing I can think of is to prevent wicking in an
> unsealed edge that may be exposed to weather.
Exposure to weather -- snow build-up -- does concern me, given the snows
we can have here. As to rain, it seems making sure your siding was 1/2"
lower would suffice to stop wicking. (??)
> Oh, and if a building wrap salesman starts barking up your tree fork
> the evil eye at him and run like hell.
House wrap seems to be *very* popular with custom homes (and on better
tract homes). What's wrong with it? (I shop the building centers and
construction suppliers very carefully; I stay away from walk-up salesdroids.)
Fred Christiansen
Jim Ilkay (bui...@texas.net) wrote:
> A common reason to back the sill plate off the foundation edge is to allow
Whether the sheathing is insulating or not, you could still have it off
the edge, rather than flush with the edge. Or is there a good reason why
sheathing, insulated or not, but esp insulated, should end up flush?
Moisture? Varmints?
Fred Christiansen
David S (dswy...@direct.ca) wrote:
> Fred Christiansen wrote:
> > Some of the construction how-to books I've read tell you to back off your
> > sill plate (and thus the walls) from the foundation's edge 1/2" (to adjust
>
How would that save on sheathing? 1/2" slivers here and there is about it.
Given the scrap heaps I see ...
David S
Fred Christiansen
Rick Davis (rda...@airmail.net) wrote:
> It has always been my experience that the plans have dimensions on them.
> So if you need an extra 1/2", have the plans drawn to reflect that.
Sure the plans have dimensions. But did the architect/drafter have a
good reason for showing sheathing flush with the edge or the sill plate
flush with the edge? I can easily see 'em doing it one way forever and
always because that's what they were taught, and no reason ever given
and/or no reasoning things thru ever done.
Juli Bedwell
The only time I've ever detailed a 1/2" set-back for sill plate is to
allow for continuation of stucco finish over foundation stem wall.
VincentLee
>Sure the plans have dimensions. But did the architect/drafter have a
>good reason for showing sheathing flush with the edge or the sill plate
>flush with the edge? I can easily see 'em doing it one way forever and
>always because that's what they were taught, and no reason ever given
>and/or no reasoning things thru ever done.
>--
Way back in my younger days I framed many a commercial and
institutional building that was to have brick veneer exterior, with
the brick supported by the foundation, in some places, and other types
of finish in others. Of course we did not place the sill flush with
the outside of the foundation, we placed it as far back as the
architect's drawings indicated. Designers *do* consider this.
-V.
Ed Kaltenbaugh
David S wrote:
>
> Fred Christiansen wrote:
> >
> > Some of the construction how-to books I've read tell you to back off your
> > sill plate (and thus the walls) from the foundation's edge 1/2" (to adjust
> > Own Home_, Ten Speed Press; authored by the gentleman who created the
> > Owner-Builder Center in, I think, Berkeley) says there's no need to do so;
> > the only reason folk do so, he says, is to hide the sheathing, for cosmetic
> > reasons, should someone happen to be rolling on the ground and staring up
> > under your siding.
> >
> > few square feet, seems silly. OTOH, maybe there's a good reason, esp for
> > certain climes.
> >
> > Comments? (the excavator starts today, so soon I shall be framing)
of the sheathing and leave your rim joist exposed? Most people start the siding
at the BOTTOM of the rim joist, siding OVER the area where the sheathing and the
rim joist (the wall system and the floor system) meet. I've never seen anyone
leave the rim joist exposed, but then I don't know what type of house you're
building or what type of siding you are using. If you ARE going to start your
siding at the bottom of the rim joist i.e. at the top of the foundation wall, I
think you would want the sheathing to be flush with the rim joist.
Just a thought. If you don't understand what I'm talking about I could email you a
sketch.
Good Luck.
Ed K in PA
ekb...@pgh.net
Andrew Kelly
fre...@fc.hp.com (Fred Christiansen) wrote:
>Andrew Kelly (gad...@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
>> The only possible thing I can think of is to prevent wicking in an
>> unsealed edge that may be exposed to weather.
>Exposure to weather -- snow build-up -- does concern me, given the snows
>we can have here. As to rain, it seems making sure your siding was 1/2"
>lower would suffice to stop wicking. (??)
Heavy, sustained rains with a strong wind componant can get your
exposed foundation good and wet, and and unsealed sheathing edge would
draw that moisture in easily.
>> Oh, and if a building wrap salesman starts barking up your tree fork
>> the evil eye at him and run like hell.
>House wrap seems to be *very* popular with custom homes (and on better
>tract homes). What's wrong with it? (I shop the building centers and
>construction suppliers very carefully; I stay away from walk-up salesdroids.)
A custom home is generally a first venture issue. The vast majority
are the first home-building experience for the --often young--
homeowner, and everybody wants to "do it right". This is why the
building wrap salesman focuses his efforts in the custom home market.
The general builds mostly on a cost plus basis, so he doesn't care if
you want your studs hand-sanded, he'll just smile and tack it on the
bill. Good salesmen are worth every penny and more of their
commissions, and often sell a product to someone who doesn't really
need it. Believe me I know. Ten feet from where I sit is a $1300.00
vacuum I bought three months ago. It's still in the box because there
is nothing wrong with my old vacuum.
Building wrap is a pain to put on, not inexpensive, and truly serves
minimal purpose. If you live in an area where wind can blow through
your siding, sheathing, insulation, vapor-barrior and drywall, then a
little wrap won't add any more protection. My person experiences in
using it have been mainly "why", and in adding to newer homes which
have used a building wrap, I have often seen adverse affects on the
structual sheathing which I can only attribute to the wrap.
These are all just my personal opinions of course, but I throw the
product into the same pile as I do plyth walls. Silly make-work
items, who's job can be much better done in other ways.
And (ymmv) rew
Pat Gammon
5 separate cities with 5 separate requirements and interpretations of
the CABO and BOCA codes. We have hurricane and flood construction
requirements in many areas.
Start simple...no extra codes...house on crawl...vinyl siding. Your
siding needs a level surface and will indeed start at the bottom of your
joists. Your framers would like to pull the bottom plate inside 1/2
inch as it makes it easier to apply the sheathing. This preferance
can be executed with no problem if the architect has dimensioned the
plans with a 4" exterior wall. If not dimensioned in your plans, the
reduction of 1" from overall dimensions is not usually a problem in
larger homes, BUT if you are builing a smaller home, one inch,
compounded with normal field variences could make a difference in code
hall widths, stairs, door openings, tubs, etc.. I have seen this as
Construction Coordinator with Habitat for Humanity. So...Review your
plans! Can you Build within required tolerances?
MY preferance with above conditions: Hold the plate to the 3 1/2"
framing line, sheathing will be 1/2" over joists. Pack out the joists
with cuts from the window and door waste AND drop it down BELOW the
joists 1/2". That 1/2" combined with an additional 1/2"(+) drop in the
vinyl siding starter strip TOTALLY protects the structural joist members
from any moisture penetration. The sheathing scab is easy to
repair...your joists are not!
David Baggaley
I would recommend overlapping the foundation with the sheathing and the
siding. You want to maintain a "shingle" type overlap of all your
materials of your exterior envelope from the roof's peak to the ground.
In my old house, the bottom of the siding actually sits on the
foundation. It looks OK but water can and did wrap itself under the siding
and dribble across the top of the foundation and into the basement. Even
if the water doesn't make it into the basement, it may just sit on top
of the foundation and rot out the sill plate.
I had to stick some aluminum drip cap flashing under the siding all around
the perimeter of the house to fix it. My only consolation is that the
original carpenter who did the siding is probably dead now.
Dave
Ed Kaltenbaugh wrote:
>
> David S wrote:
> >
> > Fred Christiansen wrote:
> > >
> > > Some of the construction how-to books I've read tell you to back off your
> > > sill plate (and thus the walls) from the foundation's edge 1/2" (to adjust
> > > for the sheathing). However, one very helpful how-to book (_Build Your
> > >
> > > Comments? (the excavator starts today, so soon I shall be framing)
> >
> --Think about this a minute Fred... Are you going to start your siding at the bottom
> of the sheathing and leave your rim joist exposed? Most people start the siding
> at the BOTTOM of the rim joist, siding OVER the area where the sheathing and the
> rim joist (the wall system and the floor system) meet. I've never seen anyone
> leave the rim joist exposed, but then I don't know what type of house you're
> building or what type of siding you are using. If you ARE going to start your
> siding at the bottom of the rim joist i.e. at the top of the foundation wall, I
> think you would want the sheathing to be flush with the rim joist.
>
--
Dave Baggaley, RCTB, Thunder Bay, Ontario
mailto:bagg...@raven.wqt.on.doe.ca