Outside Electrical Wiring without Conduit
Don Small
circuit breaker box under the eaves to an outlet on the deck? I prefer not
to use conduit.
Chris Lewis
> Is there a code-compliant electrical wire that can be used to run from the
> circuit breaker box under the eaves to an outlet on the deck? I prefer not
> to use conduit.
This would be classified as being exposed to physical damage (on the surface
of the wall adjacent to the deck), not so much the dampness issue. As such,
your options are armored cable or conduit.
Plastic (PVC) conduit is extremely easy to work with. Probably cost less
than $15 in materials to buy a PVC outlet box, a length of PVC conduit
and fish ordinary house wire thru it. A couple of clips and a hacksaw,
and you're done.
I'd recommend against armored cable. The water resistant version is
quite expensive I believe.
--
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rich
>Plastic (PVC) conduit is extremely easy to work with. Probably cost less
>than $15 in materials to buy a PVC outlet box, a length of PVC conduit
>and fish ordinary house wire thru it. A couple of clips and a hacksaw,
>and you're done.
I am not an electrician or anything, but I did get advice on fishing
wire through some of the plastic PVC -- which was not to use the
"ordinary house wire." Instead, if the entire run of wire is to be
enclosed from where it is tapped to where it terminates, run strands of
solid THHN of the appropriate gauge through the conduit. I bought 500'
spools each of black, white and green 12-gauge THHN wire and pulled
about 150' of each color to an outside GFCI that is running a fountain
in the front yard. I can testify that it's a helluva lot easier pulling
the three separate wires than it is to pull the Romex cable.
--
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Gary Heston
> [ ... ] I bought 500'
>spools each of black, white and green 12-gauge THHN wire and pulled
>about 150' of each color to an outside GFCI that is running a fountain
>in the front yard. I can testify that it's a helluva lot easier pulling
>the three separate wires than it is to pull the Romex cable.
That's because THHN is stranded, and only has one layer of insulation.
Romex-type cable is solid wire, much stiffer, and has an extra layer
of insulation, making it much bulkier and stiffer.
THHN also has a much slicker surface, designed for pulling in conduit.
Romex-type cable is not.
Gary
--
Gary Heston ghe...@hiwaay.net
"It's like complaining if wood has grains in it. Wood does have grains
in it, and it is still beautiful." Apple VP Phil Schiller, trying to
explain away cracks in the Apple G4 Cube as being "mold marks".
Chris Lewis
> According to rich <QuantumSi...@atdot.org>:
> > [ ... ] I bought 500'
> >spools each of black, white and green 12-gauge THHN wire and pulled
> >about 150' of each color to an outside GFCI that is running a fountain
> >in the front yard. I can testify that it's a helluva lot easier pulling
> >the three separate wires than it is to pull the Romex cable.
> That's because THHN is stranded, and only has one layer of insulation.
> Romex-type cable is solid wire, much stiffer, and has an extra layer
> of insulation, making it much bulkier and stiffer.
> THHN also has a much slicker surface, designed for pulling in conduit.
> Romex-type cable is not.
Agreed. But in short runs (eg: from an eave vertically down a wall to an
outlet), NMD is still quite easy. I have about 10 drops in my garage
shop (ceiling to wall outlet or switch), and they're all done (and
inspected) this way. Even the 10-3 cable.
Also, depending on your sources of supply, you may be constrained to
buying a whole spool of THHN. If you're only doing one drop, and especially
if you have a hunk of NMD laying about, there's no reason not to use it.
rich
>According to rich <QuantumSi...@atdot.org>:
>> [ ... ] I bought 500'
>>spools each of black, white and green 12-gauge THHN wire and pulled
>>about 150' of each color to an outside GFCI that is running a fountain
>>in the front yard. I can testify that it's a helluva lot easier pulling
>>the three separate wires than it is to pull the Romex cable.
>
>That's because THHN is stranded, and only has one layer of insulation.
>Romex-type cable is solid wire, much stiffer, and has an extra layer
>of insulation, making it much bulkier and stiffer.
>
>THHN also has a much slicker surface, designed for pulling in conduit.
>Romex-type cable is not.
Curiosity prompts me to ask what it was that I bought that has "THHN" on
the spool but is most decidedly a single solid copper conductor (ie, not
stranded.) What does THHN really mean?
Gary Heston
>According to Gary Heston <ghe...@HiWAAY.net>:
>> THHN also has a much slicker surface, designed for pulling in conduit.
>> Romex-type cable is not.
>Agreed. But in short runs (eg: from an eave vertically down a wall to an
>outlet), NMD is still quite easy. I have about 10 drops in my garage
>shop (ceiling to wall outlet or switch), and they're all done (and
>inspected) this way. Even the 10-3 cable.
Yes, you can do it for short/straight runs. It's still harder to handle.
>Also, depending on your sources of supply, you may be constrained to
>buying a whole spool of THHN. If you're only doing one drop, and especially
>if you have a hunk of NMD laying about, there's no reason not to use it.
All the home centers (Home Depot, Lowes, Builders' Square if they still
exist, and so on) sell it by the foot. If nothing else, most electricians
will sell you wire by the foot, it's just expensive per-foot that way.
Gary Heston
>Also schrieb Gary Heston:
[ ... ]
>>That's because THHN is stranded, and only has one layer of insulation.
>>Romex-type cable is solid wire, much stiffer, and has an extra layer
Review the above--the wire in Romex is solid, THHN is stranded.
>>of insulation, making it much bulkier and stiffer.
[ ... ]
>Curiosity prompts me to ask what it was that I bought that has "THHN" on
>the spool but is most decidedly a single solid copper conductor (ie, not
>stranded.) What does THHN really mean?
As to what it means, no idea. There's no mention of it that I can find
in the index of my copy of the NEC, or any reference for a wire types
table.
Sue and Mark
>According to rich <QuantumSi...@atdot.org>:
>>Also schrieb Gary Heston:
> [ ... ]
>>>That's because THHN is stranded, and only has one layer of insulation.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>Romex-type cable is solid wire, much stiffer, and has an extra layer
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Review the above--the wire in Romex is solid, THHN is stranded.
>
>>>of insulation, making it much bulkier and stiffer.
> [ ... ]
>>Curiosity prompts me to ask what it was that I bought that has "THHN" on
>>the spool but is most decidedly a single solid copper conductor (ie, not
>>stranded.) What does THHN really mean?
>
>As to what it means, no idea. There's no mention of it that I can find
>in the index of my copy of the NEC, or any reference for a wire types
>table.
>
>Gary
THHN is the insulation, and the wire is available in both stranded and solid
varieties. Typically, you'd want the solid, as it works better with wire
nuts, receptacle screws, etc. The stranded stuff would be best for flexible
conduits.
As Gary said, the insulation of thermoplastic wire (what T in THHN
indicates) is nice and slippery. If you bought RHW (rubber insulation),
you'd have a much harder time. The Romex jacket is fairly slick, but there
are at least 3 wires in it making it quite difficult to get around conduit
bends or even to just pull in very long lengths.
Finally, the "H" indicates the heat rating -- the more H's the higher the
rating. I think THHN is 90 degree wire and THN is 75. A W designation (THWN)
means its suitable for wet locations. Most of these thermoplastic wires have
multiple ratings -- THHN/THWN/TW are typically all printed on the jacket.
There is a huge section of the NEC dedicated to uses of diferent cable
types. I don't remember the chapter numbers, but this is all described in
there.
Mark
Renton, WA
rich
>THHN is the insulation, and the wire is available in both stranded and solid
>varieties. Typically, you'd want the solid, as it works better with wire
>nuts, receptacle screws, etc. The stranded stuff would be best for flexible
>conduits.
Whew! At least I'm not going crazy, with my solid conductor THHN wire.
:-{) Thanks for the education.
--
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Chris Lewis
> exist, and so on) sell it by the foot. If nothing else, most electricians
> will sell you wire by the foot, it's just expensive per-foot that way.
Never heard of Lowes or Builder's Square, and Home Depots are still
relatively scarce in the Great White North. I don't think our HDs
carry THHN anyways ;-) Canadian Tire, Home Hardware or Pro Hardware (far
more common) seldom do.
Availability can sometimes be an issue.