Have you called GE? Look on their web site or look on the tube of
silicone, there is usually some number to call.
> Again, all I want to know is the max temperature that GE Silicone II
> (door and window) can be continuously exposed to without breaking down,
> running or coming off.
As you've been told multiple times, go to the GE web site and look up
the technical product data sheet for the specific material of interest.
If it isn't listed as suitable for the application, I'm sure GE will
have a high temperature product that would be.
You're really not trying here...
--
> > Again, all I want to know is the max temperature that GE
> > Silicone II (door and window) can be continuously exposed
> > to without breaking down, running or coming off.
>
> As you've been told multiple times, go to the GE web site and
> look up the technical product data sheet for the specific material
> of interest.
I've looked there, and if they've posted those specs - I can't find
them.
> You're really not trying here...
I'm asking on the off chance someone here knows where the spec sheet
(not msds) for GE Silicone II might be found, or who otherwise might
already know the answer about max service temperature, or who might have
used it for a high temperature application (and by high temperature, I
don't mean 1000 f. More like 100 C to 200 C (200f to 400f).
If the fuckers at Home Depot carried a silicone calk labelled as
"high-temp" or if the fuckers at GE actually listed the max service
temperature on their fucking products then this thread wouldn't exist.
It is quite clear that you are one of the nit-wit engineer type
homeowners that gets hung up on specs and shit that no one
in real life gives a shit about...
The only part of your "furnace" that needs to be air tight in
the manner in which you speak of is the portion where the
plenum enters and the heat exchanger is located...
You NEED NOT seal the rest of the furnace air tight as
only the plenum (where the circulation fan is) and heat
exchanger which are part of the duct work need to be
sealed...
Again, if your furnace is that far gone that air comes out
of it "all over the place" then it has other issues...
If you seal it up so tightly like you are seeking to do,
it will no longer be able to draft air for combustion
and will cease working...
As far as the "the main distribution [trunk] and
collection [return air] plenums or manifolds,
air-filter enclosure, where those structures tie into
the furnace" that is all, umm what do you call it,
DUCT WORK...
Mastic is used by home energy auditors to seal
up leaky seams in existing duct work to improve
air flow (pressure) in the duct work and reduce
the losses of conditioned air escaping the ducts
through other than the intended air registers...
Apparently you have not the first clue of what
you are doing, nor what is actually important
here and seem fixated on performing a totally
unneeded and misguided repair to make your
furnace "look" better...
If you have any further need for the specs on
how whatever GE Silicone II product or whatever
will perform, call GE and ask for it if you can not
locate such information on the internet...
~~ Evan
ROFL...
I guess that you don't have a central AC unit anywhere in that duct
work at all... Those need to be opened up at least annually to have
the cooling coil in the plenum duct vacuumed and washed clean...
But hey, you sound like one of those guys who thinks that as long
as you keep changing the filters every so often you are getting all
of the dirty and crap out of your duct work...
Lol...
~~ Evan
> It is quite clear that you are one of the nit-wit engineer type
> homeowners that gets hung up on specs and shit that no one
> in real life gives a shit about...
It's usually the case that "specs and shit" are some-what important when
it comes to how things operate, and for how long, and for how well.
> The only part of your "furnace" that needs to be air tight in
> the manner in which you speak of is the portion where the
> plenum enters and the heat exchanger is located...
Any box, duct or chamber that generates or experiences a negative or
positive pressure should be air tight.
> You NEED NOT seal the rest of the furnace air tight as
> only the plenum (where the circulation fan is) and heat
> exchanger which are part of the duct work need to be
> sealed...
bla bla bla.
Any box, duct or chamber that generates or experiences a negative or
positive pressure should be air tight.
> If you seal it up so tightly like you are seeking to do,
> it will no longer be able to draft air for combustion
> and will cease working...
The furnace room is supplied with a dedicated out-door air supply duct.
The return air ducting, plenum and fan chamber should not be able to
draw air from this combustion supply duct, because if it does then it
means a negative pressure is being created in the furnace room by the
furnace fan, and this negative pressure must relieve itself by drawing
air not only from the combustion supply duct but also the combustion
flue or stack. In my case, the flue stack is not a sealed system with
respect to the furnace and the furnace room, so a negative pressure in
the furnace room will lead to air being drawn down from the flue (and
the combustion air supply duct) into the furnace room and into the leaks
on the return-air side of the fan. Naturally, any reverse air flow in
the flue is not a good thing.
> Apparently you have not the first clue of what you are doing,
We all agree that sealing holes where air is leaking into or leaking
out-of makes the system more efficient, and even more safe to operate.
I just want to use a silicone-based caulk, and you and a few others are
going ape-shit over this mastic, even though I've said that the mastic
is too cumbersome to apply in small or tight spaces, and I don't know if
it dries hard or flexible (I would want flexible).
> nor what is actually important here and seem fixated on performing
> a totally unneeded and misguided repair to make your furnace "look"
> better...
I never said this was about appearance.
Read the product labels and don't forget about expansion/contraction of the
metalwork. Personally I'd use the heat-resistant tape made for just such
things.
HTH,
Twayne`
400 F is normal and Hi temp 500 F
what did GE say when you called the 800 number that's on every tube?
Or buy high-temp silicone at a woodstove store. My local plumbing store even
carries it. Works fine on wood stove exhaust pipe.
I used a clear silicone, think it was the type I, to seal around glass
doors on fire place. Holds up well.
> Well considering your hight temp cut off is around 90c I would
> work with that figure.
There are seams that run close to where the flue exits the furnace that
will quite likely exceed 100C for extended periods.
> I'm looking for some high-temperature sealant / caulking to use on my
go to any auto parts store and buy the High-temp gasket stuff made by
Permatex. It will tell you on the package it's max temp ratings.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
Years ago GE made a silicone sealant with red iron oxide filler that
Industrial and commercial cooking equipment supply houses sell high temp
silicone sealant. What I have used is red in color it will handle up to
500�F. Look at Dow Corning 736.
http://www.dowcorning.com/content/publishedlit/80-3258.pdf
TDD
Buy the Duct oastic sealer made for that job, its in gallon tubs and
costs 1/5th to 1/3rd what silicone costs. The work is done every day
by pros and they dont use expensive silicone. This stuff you just use
a putty knife and it goes fast.
> Buy the Duct oastic sealer made for that job, its in gallon tubs
> and costs 1/5th to 1/3rd what silicone costs.
Is it available in Canada?
Is it sold at retail, over the counter, at a place that's open past 5 pm
weekdays or open saturday?
Is it sold at only one place in my city, clear across town in industrial
east end?
Or did you factor in any of that criteria?
According to this:
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/GE-Waterproof-Sealant-4UH03?Pid=search
Grainger is listing the temp range of that product as being -65f to
400f. It appears to be the same product as this:
But I would love to track down an actual GE technical spec sheet for it.
Why should I factor in anything, im trying you give you help, a proven
method, but your just being an ass. Anyway, Here I can get it retail,
over the counter, at a place open till 8 on even sunday, and its not
to far from me, sure you have it in Canada, so have fun looking, jerk.
>I'd still just like to know how the home-owner-grade silicone caulking
>sold at the big-box stores would stand up to extended exposure to high
>temperatures.
Like ransley said, mastic is what you need. It's sold at Home
Depot/Lowes/etc in the States...dunno about Canada. Look in the aisle
with the ductwork pieces.
Silicone will work if you like paying more for less. Your call.
Supply temps for a forced air furnace aren't 'high temp' - maybe 120F.
That's well within the range of silicones.
> > I'd still just like to know how the home-owner-grade silicone
> > caulking sold at the big-box stores would stand up to extended
> > exposure to high temperatures.
>
> Like ransley said, mastic is what you need.
It's not the ductwork that I want to seal. It's more like the furnace
itself, where the plenum meets the furnace, even some places inside the
furnace cabinet, places that run close to some very hot surfaces, places
where it would be hard to get a trowel into, places where a nozzle could
easily reach and inject material.
> Silicone will work if you like paying more for less. Your call.
One tube of silicone for maybe $6 - $8 vs I-don't-know for a pail of
mastic. It's not the $$$ that's the issue here.
"Places inside the furnace" which probably have no business being
"sealed up" as they were not sealed at the factory...
You do realize that even if you use mastic to seal the joints and
seams
in your duct work that mastic would have to be reapplied every time
someone opens up those ducts to do service...
Why do you feel the need to make your furnace unit more difficult to
take apart by adding silicone caulking to it in areas where it doesn't
need to have it applied...
The goal is to seal the duct work to prevent conditioned air (whether
heated or cooled) from leaking out into unconditioned spaces whether
that be your basement or attic... Attempting to apply sealant onto
parts of the furnace unit where the heated or cooled air are not
exposed to is a foolhardy endeavor which will not result in any
energy savings whatsoever...
As to your questions in your first posting:
NO, the "fire barrier" sealant is not that kind of caulking... It
fills gaps
where wires, pipes, etc. penetrate a wall and will expand to seal
tightly
around those penetrations when it gets heated by a fire and such
sealants are considered "intumescent" and used in passive fire
protection in the manner described...
Using silicone caulking on duct work seems to be silly since there is
another product which is used by competent professionals for the
one of the situations you wish to apply the silicone caulking to...
http://www.alpinehomeair.com/viewproduct.cfm?productID=453059205
Is what you need to find... I am sure that you should be able to
find a source for that mastic in Canada -- it may have simply
been a matter of NOT KNOWING WHAT YOU WERE LOOKING FOR...
~~ Evan
You told him Mastic, thats a mistake, now he will want you find a
store that has it, to pick him up, drive him to a store that has it,
buy him a burger, drive him home and show him how to use it, all for
free. But this guy should be paying for your advice now
> > It's not the ductwork that I want to seal. It's more like the
> > furnace itself, where the plenum meets the furnace, even some
> > places inside the furnace cabinet, places that run close to
> > some very hot surfaces, places where it would be hard to get
> > a trowel into, places where a nozzle could easily reach and
> > inject material.
>
> "Places inside the furnace" which probably have no business
> being "sealed up" as they were not sealed at the factory...
It's a 30-year-old furnace. Lots of slop in how things fit in some
places. Rust in other places have opened up some seams.
> You do realize that even if you use mastic to seal the joints and
> seams in your duct work that mastic would have to be reapplied
> every time someone opens up those ducts to do service...
Hey, I'm not the one advocating mastic. But then again, I don't think
that ducts need to be opened up very often to do servicing...
> Why do you feel the need to make your furnace unit more difficult
> to take apart by adding silicone caulking to it in areas where
> it doesn't need to have it applied...
When there is air blowing through or being sucked through seams, I think
that's a good indication that it probably shouldn't happen. Like when
heated air is escaping through seams where the ductwork is connected to
the furnace. These are seams that are really never taken apart as part
of normal servicing. And if they ever are taken apart, it's probably to
replace something pretty substantial (like the entire furnace). It's
not like I'm going to silicone seal any service doors or panels
(hmmm...)
> The goal is to seal the duct work to prevent conditioned air
> (whether heated or cooled) from leaking out into unconditioned
> spaces whether that be your basement or attic...
And it's also to seal the ducts and passages that pull return air into
the furnace, to prevent the furnace fan from creating a negative air
pressure around the furnace that would lead to air being pulled down
from the flue and creating a reverse air flow in the burner chamber that
cause combustion flames to leap out of the combustion area and into the
area where the thermostat and gas valves are located, and heating and
melting any wiring in that area.
> Attempting to apply sealant onto parts of the furnace unit where
> the heated or cooled air are not exposed to is a foolhardy
> endeavor which will not result in any energy savings whatsoever..
Inside the furnace itself is where you will find places where
conditioned air can escape and where incoming return air passages are
not contained against leakage.
> Using silicone caulking on duct work
Again, it's not the ductwork (distribution runs) that I want to seal
with caulking. It's basicically any of the ductwork in the furnace room
itself, of which there is not really any ductwork as much as the main
distribution and collection plenums or manifolds, air-filter enclosure,
where those structures tie into the furnace, and even some places on or
in the furnace enclosure.
> seems to be silly since there is another product which is used
> by competent professionals for the one of the situations you
> wish to apply the silicone caulking to...
Again, that material might be fine and appropriate to apply during
initial ductwork fabrication and installation. It is not the
appropriate product to use for the situation I'm describing.
> http://www.alpinehomeair.com/viewproduct.cfm?productID=453059205
>
> Is what you need to find...
Interesting item listed in it's specifications:
No, because I don't want to use mastic.
I just want to know what the max service temperature that GE Silicone II
can be exposed to.
But nobody can answer that question, so they go off on tangents about
this mastic shit.
www.hardcast.com/products/PDFS/broch/HCS_02_05.pdf--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DanG
Keep the whole world singing . . .
"Sum Guy" <S...@Guy.com> wrote in message
news:4CD5D27E...@Guy.com...
I doubt that consumer-grade sealants are pure silicone. And besides,
You can answer it. Don't be so helpless. This is a DIY group, after all.
Stick a couple of pieces of 30 year old, rusty furnace-type metal
together with some GE Silicone II and expose it to some heat in your
oven.
Start at 200F for 3 hours, then crank it up in whatever increments you
feel like, leaving it for 3 hours each time. Use a couple of pairs of
pliers to test the integrity of the bond. Watch for fires, melting,
explosions, or any signs that the GE Silicone II might be morphing into
radioactive waste or alien life.
Publish an article detailing the results of your research on eHow, so
future generations will know to what temperature GE Silicone II can
safely be exposed. I'm going to be waiting, because I want to use it to
seal the leaks in my car's exhaust system.