Central Vacuum Opinions Sought - Beam vs. Vacuflo
Scott A. Brooks
My wife and I are building a new house, and I am going to install a
central vacuum system. I have narrowed down my search (I think) to
either the Vacuflo system or the Beam system. The problem is that I
have only the opinions of each manufacturer's sales agents.
Are there any Beam or Vacuflo owners out there who would like to e-mail
or post their opinions of their systems? Here are some questions that I
have:
1) What model do you have?
2) How long have you had it?
3) Are you 100% satisfied with it (does it clean as well as an upright
vacuum)?
4) Have you had any problems with it?
5) Do you have an electric powerhead or an air turbine powerhead? Does
it work well? Does it need periodic cleaning?
6) Have you ever had to replace a motor or fan in the power unit?
Thanks for you help,
Scott Brooks
sbr...@execpc.com
Floyd Brown
In article <329648...@execpc.com>, sbr...@execpc.com says...
part--IE--no 90 degree elbows, no tees, must be sweep joints, all inline
connections must come in from the top so no dirt falls back when the end
connection is used!. Elbows and tee's can be stopped up when the unit pickes
up needles and they stick in the top of the elbow and then you have to back
flush to clear the line. however this dosen't get the needles out.
Rob Bickley
"Scott A. Brooks" <sbr...@execpc.com> wrote:
>My wife and I are building a new house, and I am going to install a
>central vacuum system. I have narrowed down my search (I think) to
>either the Vacuflo system or the Beam system. The problem is that I
>have only the opinions of each manufacturer's sales agents.
Hi , I have installed both and would prefer the beam unit. The
vacuflo unit probable does not have a filter and must be vented.
The big problem with no filter is that everything that is not heavy
enough to drop into the dirt can will go through the motor.Any
moisture will collect dirt on the fan blades and unbalance them.
At 13000 rpm being out of balance is bad.
Mathew A. Locker
>> What model do you have?
>> 2) How long have you had it?
4 years
>> 3) Are you 100% satisfied with it (does it clean as well as an upright
>> vacuum)?
It's far superior to any vacuum I have used. I am generally happy.
>> 4) Have you had any problems with it?
The beater bar had a bearing go bad after 1 year.
>> 5) Do you have an electric powerhead or an air turbine powerhead? Does
>> it work well? Does it need periodic cleaning?
Air turbine. I think the air turbine works well, but:
1) I need to clean the wife's hair out of it every freaking time it is used.
The reason is that, IMHO, the basic turbine design is faulty. The
vacuum inlet is only on one side of the beater bar. All the dirt/hair/...
must migrate from the right side of the beater bar to the left side
before it will be inhaled by the powerhead. It must therefore, migrate
past the center drive belt; of course a good part of it just ends up
stuck right there.
>> 6) Have you ever had to replace a motor or fan in the power unit?
No.
------------------
Matthew A. Locker
Edward Cheung
Scott A. Brooks wrote:
> Are there any Beam or Vacuflo owners out there who would like to e-mail
> or post their opinions of their systems?
I do not have either one, but I do have a Vacu Maid system, which I
installed
myself. It was challenging since I did this as a retrofit to my home.
I installed two outlets per floor (3 floors), and was able to
(fortunately)
hide the entire installation in closets and existing chases in my home.
The installation was a good experience since it allowed me to prepare
for
the day that I would be wiring Cat 5 and RG-6U to every corner of the
house
when a successor to X-10 is crowned.
Some pointers for installation:
- the only place a tight 90 degree turn should be used is right behind
the vacuum receptacle. In this manner, the tightest turn in the
system
is right where you can reach the obstruction (after you remove the
vacuum hose). The rest of the system should use sweep 90s and sweep
Tees. Thus if you vacuum up a pencil, it will get stuck right at the
receptacle, and you can remove it by unplugging the hose.
- On horizontal runs, do not connect to it from below. Dirt travelling
in the horizontal run can drop down into the connecting tube. A
friend
of mine did not do this, and while vacuuming glass shards, had them
drop into the connecting tube, filling a vacuum outlet with glass....
- Design the system such that you do not have to turn the pipe upwards.
This advice was given to me by the dealer, a trusted veteran
installer.
The only exception is at the 90 right behind a receptacle. The upward
turn can cause plugs. If you do need to turn upwards, install an
access
cleanout: a sweep 90 and a plug.
> 2) How long have you had it?
About 6 months.
> 3) Are you 100% satisfied with it (does it clean as well as an upright
> vacuum)?
It cleans better, quieter, and all dirt is ejected from the house. The
system is light and maneuverable. Since it is built in, it will add to
the value of the house. Since it has no substantial filter, there is no
obstruction to the unit's power. No restriction on the power
consumption,
size and weight of the motor, so it can be powerful too (and contrary to
how it sounds, I am not a vacuum salesman ;-).
> 5) Do you have an electric powerhead or an air turbine powerhead? Does
> it work well? Does it need periodic cleaning?
I decided to spring for two sets of electric powered heads. They work
well. My powerhead's OEM was Eureka (repackaged). I also bought the
turbine powered stair sweeper. It is a hand held turbine brush. Great
for cars as well. The air turbine units are more prone to clogging
(all dirt needs to pass thru the vanes of the turbine), and reduces
power a little. If you get the powered heads, I recommend the hose that
has the power cord molded into it. The alternative (a hose with a cord
ty-wrapped) is a pain.
To give you a point of reference, this was the cost of my system:
250 - vacuum motor
150 - pipes and fittings
300 - toolkits, two hoses, two powerheads, one stair head
700 - total
> 6) Have you ever had to replace a motor or fan in the power unit?
No, but I hope you will allow me an anecdote. On my first night there
when I worked at KSC (Kennedy Space Center), I opened the door at night
and FELT something run over my sneaker. After frantically looking
around
the house for a few minutes, I found (what the natives called) a Wolf
Spider. Big hairy thing, the size of your fist. Fortunately, the house
I lived in had a central vacuum system, and I used it to shhhhhuck the
thing out of the house. Whew, I was so glad to have the system.
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Edward Cheung, Ph.D. | The opinions expressed herein |
| NASA Goddard Space Flight Center | do not necessarily reflect |
| Mail Code J&T/442 | those of my employers' |
| Greenbelt, MD 20771 | |
| 301-286-8027(office) 286-1778(fax)| My next book: |
| edward.b...@gsfc.nasa.gov |Statistics, Demos and Other Lies|
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Geoff Shepherd
> My wife and I are building a new house, and I am going to install a
> central vacuum system. I have narrowed down my search (I think) to
> 1) What model do you have?
NuTone - mid-priced model (uses bags)
> 2) How long have you had it?
6 months
> 3) Are you 100% satisfied with it (does it clean as well as an upright
> vacuum)?
Yes. Cleans better than any upright we had. Exhausts any residual dust
outside the house, so we have less dust hanging around. Added an optional
exhaust noise muffler so the noise from the vent is only a little louder
than our electric dryer vent.
> 4) Have you had any problems with it?
Don't let other household members get over-zealous and vacuum up things
which should just be picked up by hand and thrown away (like golf-ball
sized brick fragments - no damage done though, but sounded terrible!).
We purchased the "deluxe" hose which is of heavier construction and has a
convenient switch at the handle end for controlling the system power. But
it is heavy to lug around, though not as heavy as our old Kirby upright.
> 5) Do you have an electric powerhead or an air turbine powerhead? Does
> it work well? Does it need periodic cleaning?
We have a turbine unit. It was much less expensive than a powered unit
after figuring in cost of a powered hose. Not only that, who needs another
thing to plug in and make a lot of noise... I do miss having a headlamp.
Why couldn't they have included a little generator hooked up to the turbine
to power a small headlamp?
The turbine-powered unit works very well and is surprisingly quiet. I've
taken it all apart once to clean the various bearings out (it started
getting rather noisy).
> 6) Have you ever had to replace a motor or fan in the power unit?
No. Replaced bag once.
Other comments? Cats are less scared of this vacuum since it makes much
less noise. Vacuuming happens more often now as everyone enjoys the
convenience, quiet operation, and strong suction power of the system. I
installed it myself, on one floor with two inlets to cover 1400 sq. ft. In
power unit is in the basement, providing an extra inlet for utility use.
Neighbors are jealous.
Total system cost for power unit, heavy-duty tool set, deluxe hose, turbine
beater-brush, and supplies: $600. Installation time: a Saturday afternoon.
--
..Geoff Shepherd
gshe...@seanet.com
Cochran, Ted
In article <01bbdb6a$da72e600$LocalHost@gshepherd>, "Geoff Shepherd"
<gshe...@seanet.com> wrote:
> > My wife and I are building a new house, and I am going to install a
> > central vacuum system. I have narrowed down my search (I think) to
> (snip)
>
> > 1) What model do you have?
Beam
>
> > 2) How long have you had it?
5 years, in two houses (yes, we liked it so much we moved the motor and
had the pipes reinstalled, this time into a 1918, plaster and hardwood
floor tutor.)
>
> > 3) Are you 100% satisfied with it (does it clean as well as an upright
> > vacuum)?
> Yes. Cleans better than any upright we had. Exhausts any residual dust
> outside the house, so we have less dust hanging around. Added an optional
> exhaust noise muffler so the noise from the vent is only a little louder
> than our electric dryer vent.
Agreed. Seems as powerful as a big Shopvac.
Beam is noiser than a dryer vent, but we don't hear it, and the neighbors
haven't complained :-)
>
> > 4) Have you had any problems with it?
Nothing special. It's harder to find valued objects if you suck them up
by mistake, cuz there is so much more stuff to comb through. THe dogs
like chewing on the attachments.
>
> > 5) Do you have an electric powerhead or an air turbine powerhead? Does
> > it work well? Does it need periodic cleaning?
We have an electric head for most stuff and a little turbine unit for
stairs and stuff. I prefer the electric; the turbine not only needs
cleaning, but it is noiser.
>
> > 6) Have you ever had to replace a motor or fan in the power unit?
No.
> Other comments?
We'll never go back.
--tc
Ted Cochran
Honeywell Technology Center
Peter Sylvester
>
> > My wife and I are building a new house, and I am going to install a
> > central vacuum system. I have narrowed down my search (I think) to
Anyone have opinions on the Electrolux unit, or how it compares to the
Nutone?
Thanks,
-Peter
Mike Coln
We chose the Electrolux unit, finding the attachments to be nicer, and
the main unit at least equivalent to the other brands. The electric
motor driven head unit works very well, and having the power wiring run
as part of the flexible hose is very convenient. One interesting note:
I understand all brands use the same motor/impeller in the main tank.
We have had the system about 6 months, have had no problems, and would
not want to go back.
Gus Altobello, Jr.
Peter Sylvester <pet...@mitre.org> wrote:
> >
> > > My wife and I are building a new house, and I am going to install a
> > > central vacuum system. I have narrowed down my search (I think) to
> [snip]
>
> Anyone have opinions on the Electrolux unit, or how it compares to the
> Nutone?
> Thanks,
> -Peter
Love our Electrolux unit. I have no idea how it compares to the
NuTone, but it sucks harder than the portable Electroluxes we've had
in the past (and they're pretty powerful). No bag, you just empty the
can. Over two years now, and we're still quite happy with it. Mine
has both the outlet muffler and the intake silencer -- so the most
noise made when operating is the noise the air makes going into the
floor brush. We got the powered hose, and have electric-powered
carpet and "stair" brushes.
We have a large hairy dog. When the house hasn't been vacuumed for a
week, we start to get doghair-tumbleweeds. Portable vaccuums were
filling up in only a few uses -- this monster goes several months
before even starting to fill. The waste can is larger than my
lobster pot.
I installed it myself in a smallish two-story Cape, so not much tubing
needed. I intend to add an outside outlet for cleaning the car.
Whatever you get, be sure to vent it outside. The dealer assured me
that this wasn't necessary, that enough dust was removed by the vortex
and the filter to keep the outlet air clean. Then I found the exhaust
was stirring up the dust *already* in the basement! :-) So I vented
it outside. Anyway, unless you put a HEPA filter on the outlet, I'd
expect SOME dust to make it through the filter, so why not exhaust?
My wife likes this better than any vaccuum she's ever owned. Of all
the "handyman" things I've done, installed, or fixed, the vaccuum is
the one she still thanks me for (though I suppose things like fixing
the water line I broke wouldn't rate recurring thanks, would they?)
-gus
--
Unsolicited advertising cheerfully returned to your postmaster.
Gus Altobello, Jr.
Play: al...@li.net Work: gus.al...@reuters.com
Robert L. Bass
I have an opinion. Vacuums are not automation.
Peter Sylvester <pet...@mitre.org> wrote in article
<329C52...@mitre.org>...
Uncle Bob
Rob Bickley <rob_b...@mindlink.bc.ca> wrote in article
<57a64o$r...@fountain.mindlink.net>...
> "Scott A. Brooks" <sbr...@execpc.com> wrote:
>
> >My wife and I are building a new house, and I am going to install a
What happens when you suck up a lit cigarette butt on a Central Vacuum
System?
Uncle Bob
Floyd Brown
In article <01bbdf01$a3f319c0$3871...@Degerberg.Trend1>, dege...@aol.com
says...
the bag.
--
Sir James Dewar said "Minds are like parachutes. They only function when
they are open"
George Moore said "All reformers are bachelors--all extreme reformers
have been bachelors"
Corn Licker--It smells like gangrene starting in a mildewed silo,it
tastes like the wrath to come, and when you absorb a deep swig of it you
have all the sensations of having swallowed a lighted kerosene lamp.
A sudden, violent jolt of it has been known to stop the victim's watch,
snap his suspenders and crack his glass eye right across.
actp...@aol.com
In article <01bbded1$7cd3b140$6eb3d5cc@uptech-p-133>, "Robert L. Bass"
<alar...@ntplx.net> writes:
>I have an opinion. Vacuums are not automation.
Why not? The dictionary definition of "automation" is "the handling and
fabrication of materials by automatic machinery". In this case, the
material (dirt) is being handled (sucked up) by automatic machinery (the
vacuum) and the user does not need to push around the machinery. ...but
as you said, that is your opinion and most of us in this newsgroup are
open to other's opinions (except for Arlos W. Anderson who recently posted
a particularly intolerant response to one from a New Zealand contributor
to the group...)
-Phil K. ACT, Indy, USA
Keith Doxey
Robert L. Bass <alar...@ntplx.net> wrote in article
<01bbded1$7cd3b140$6eb3d5cc@uptech-p-133>...
> I have an opinion. Vacuums are not automation.
They are if someone does the cleaning without being asked :-)
--
All the best
Krazy Keith
------------------------------------------------------------------------
keith...@btinternet.com
http://www.btinternet.com/~krazy.keith/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Keating
using the Corelle everyday. What more can I say about this
Rainbow machine but extreme satisfaction, considering the
uses (abuses) that I did to my first reliable one.
Caution: Some of the uses that I do with my Rainbow are done
at my own risk and may not be recomended by the manufacturer.
.
Tim Keating
"Scott A. Brooks" <sbr...@execpc.com> wrote:
>My wife and I are building a new house, and I am going to install a
>central vacuum system. I have narrowed down my search (I think) to
>either the Vacuflo system or the Beam system. The problem is that I
>have only the opinions of each manufacturer's sales agents.
>
>Are there any Beam or Vacuflo owners out there who would like to e-mail
>or post their opinions of their systems? Here are some questions that I
>have:
>
>1) What model do you have?
>2) How long have you had it?
>3) Are you 100% satisfied with it (does it clean as well as an upright
>vacuum)?
>4) Have you had any problems with it?
>5) Do you have an electric powerhead or an air turbine powerhead? Does
>it work well? Does it need periodic cleaning?
>6) Have you ever had to replace a motor or fan in the power unit?
>
>Thanks for you help,
>
>Scott Brooks
>sbr...@execpc.com
I found this archived thread on the web about a year ago when I was
dececiding which Central Vac system to install.. It offers many view points.
Here is a copy.. P.S. I've decided to install a HP-Vacuflo.. good luck..
Vacuum cleaners: central and Rainbow.
******************************************************************************
******************************************************************************
Central vacuum cleaners. For some reason this topic generates an incredible
outpouring.
******************************************************************************
>From: ch...@sunpix.East.Sun.COM (Chuck Mosher - Sun Visualization Products)
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 91 14:13:25 EDT
I asked about central vacuums about a year ago. Here is
a summary of the responses. (We ended up getting the HP
VacuFlo, and love it.)
Chuck
----------------------------------------------
I want to thank everyone for the incredible response to my request for
information on central vacuum cleaners! Some people went to considerable
effort to give a lot of details on how to best buy and install these
devices. The overwhelming response is in favor of CV's, and virtually all
of the troubles that have been reported seem to stem from either improper
installation or are a result of buying a low-quality unit. We are definately
going to put one in. Ultra-quick summary of points that convinced us:
1) If properly installed, suction exceeds that of any portable unit.
2) Hose is much easier to carry around (in general) than a portable unit -
we may opt for more outlets, smaller hose length, and a hose on each floor
(haven't looked at costs on this yet, however).
3) Vents to the outside, so very fine particulate matter is not recirculated
by being blown back out of the vacuum (major selling point for me, since
I suffer from allegies and asthma).
4) Usually installed in garage or basement, so is very quiet in operation.
5) Units with cyclonic spin separation can be used to suck up things that
would clog any normal vaccum (sawdust, nails, small toys the kids are
done with and have hidden under their beds).
******************************************************************************
qFrom: j...@rsiatl.UUCP (John G. De Armond)
Our experience has been poor. On the plus side, you have a central
collection point for the trash it sucks up. That's about it. The
handle with a beater bar is about as heavy as an upright unit and not
nearly as well human engineered. Major disadvantages are:
1) Low suction. Physics are a bitch, no? :-) In order to keep the
velocity up sufficient to prevent clogging, you need small pipe.
On the other hand, small pipe leads to large pressure drop. I
guess you could pressurize your house too :-) :-)
2) A long and heavy hose and cord to drag around and store. The
heads without a beater bar are pretty worthless. We tried
that route first. For those that do, they are heavy and have
(usually) a wire attached to the hose. One innovative design
I saw had the electricity conducted to the head via the spiral
reenforcing wires in the hose. I don't particularly like
that idea from a safety perspective.
3) Storage. Finding a place to dump 20 feet of hose is a real
pain. You end up dedicating a closet to it.
4) Inconvenience. You end up having to move from vacuum outlet
outlet fairly often because it is very unweildy to handle a
long hose. Ours was 20 feet long, about the maximum you'd want
to deal with. Even 20 feet is bulky and causes a pressure loss.
In contrast, a 50 or 100 foot extension cord will allow your
upright or tank unit to cover the whole house without moving it.
5) It's dirty. I'd much rather pull a disposable bag from the
upright and throw it away than to wrestle down the dustbin
from the central unit and dump it. Always good for an
allergy attack.
6) Very expensive. You can buy and wear out several self-contained
vacuums for the cost of the system.
I'd highly recommend against a central system. We no longer use ours
and have instead bought an upright. BTW, you won't like the Kirby
either. We bought one, mostly on reputation. It was very heavy and
hard to push. And VERY noisy. Fortunately we found someone
with the Kirby religion who paid us as much as we gave for it. The
next time around, we researched the subject a bit and ended up with
an ElectroLux upright. The ElectroLux company is like Kirby -
you'll have fanatical saleslime on you as fast as a wink if you're not
careful. Never, ever let one of these people into your house - unless
you just like a bunch of company. We bought ours at a walk-in store
and never gave them our names or addresses. When we order supplies
mailorder (a bit cheaper than walkin), they get shipped to the PO
box with only the company name on it.
We ARE satisfied with the ElectroLux. We've had it about 7 years now
and the only problem has been the handle screws vibrating out. A bit
of Loctite solved that problem.
John
--
John De Armond, WD4OQC | The Fano Factor -
Radiation Systems, Inc. Atlanta, GA | Where Theory meets Reality.
emory!rsiatl!jgd **I am the NRA** |
******************************************************************************
qFrom: r...@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Roger Haaheim)
=-> 1) Low suction. Physics are a bitch, no? :-) In order to keep the
=-> velocity up sufficient to prevent clogging, you need small pipe.
=-> On the other hand, small pipe leads to large pressure drop. I
=-> guess you could pressurize your house too :-) :-)
Depends on the brand, I guess. Our Beamco has plenty of suction.
=-> 2) A long and heavy hose and cord to drag around and store. The
=-> heads without a beater bar are pretty worthless. We tried
=-> that route first. For those that do, they are heavy and have
=-> (usually) a wire attached to the hose. One innovative design
=-> I saw had the electricity conducted to the head via the spiral
=-> reenforcing wires in the hose. I don't particularly like
=-> that idea from a safety perspective.
Our hose is lightweight and is the spiral wired type; I ran over our
hose with my truck...still ran fine except the flat spot prevented
passage of anything bigger than lint. No short circuits, so I still
think the wirewound type is safe.
=-> 3) Storage. Finding a place to dump 20 feet of hose is a real
=-> pain. You end up dedicating a closet to it.
We hang ours in the garage, sans closet; it's handy (and visible but
our cat doesn't care.
=-> 4) Inconvenience. You end up having to move from vacuum outlet
=-> outlet fairly often because it is very unweildy to handle a
=-> long hose. Ours was 20 feet long, about the maximum you'd want
=-> to deal with. Even 20 feet is bulky and causes a pressure loss.
=-> In contrast, a 50 or 100 foot extension cord will allow your
=-> upright or tank unit to cover the whole house without moving it.
We have a two-story house, three vacuum outlets, and don't worry about
emptying vacuum bags except once every 6 months. Our hose is lighter
than a 100 foot extension cord...
=-> 5) It's dirty. I'd much rather pull a disposable bag from the
=-> upright and throw it away than to wrestle down the dustbin
=-> from the central unit and dump it. Always good for an
=-> allergy attack.
We (I) do it outside, upwind, and agree that it is not my favorite job,
but the frequency is right, and we are willing to pay the price for
a remarkably dust-free environment inside the house...
=-> 6) Very expensive. You can buy and wear out several self-contained
=-> vacuums for the cost of the system.
Except for my faux-pas with the hose, ours has cost us zip since we had it
installed 13 years ago; not even for replacement bags...
=-> careful. Never, ever let one of these people into your house - unless
=-> you just like a bunch of company. We bought ours at a walk-in store
It's amazing how quickly the phone or door vacuum cleaner salespersons turn
away when I tell them we have a central vacuum system.
[in a separate note:]
We have had a central vacuum (installed at construction time) for 13 years
and would never go back to the other kind. Our brand is BEAMCO. We have
only had one problem with it; I crushed the hose by running over it
with my truck. The two biggest advantages to us are:
+ All the dust and junk picked up is deposited in a can in our
garage (we are both allergic to house dust and a bunch of other
stuff) so we don't have the vacuum bag dust seepage and re-circulation
problem that most other vacuum cleaners have. Our house is remarkably
dust-free.
+ The noise from the motor is in the garage also; the only noise
while vacuuming is the low-level hiss of the air bopping merrily
into the pickup unit.
When we had ours installed the cost was about $800; I presume the price
has gone up in the last 13 years...
******************************************************************************
qFrom: pr...@myrddyn.hf.intel.com (Prune Wickart)
We are building a 2-floor + basement colonial, >1500 sq.ft./floor (cheapest
per unit volume), and built up a list of features we wanted to match our life-
style and market expectations. This list includes central vaccuuming. We
have hit three vendor-intensive home shows, had visits, talked to people, and
looked for alternatives. We found two massive trade-offs: central vs.
"normal" vaccum, and 1 set of tools per floor vs 1 for the whole house.
Obviously, the cheapest solution is to buy a single regular vaccuum cleaner
and lug it up and down as needed. The most convenient is central vaccuuming
with a cyclonic central unit (drops material out of the way of later air
flow), and a set of hoses & attachments on each floor. In our area, central
vaccum systems are just catching on, and are a definite selling point.
However, when we spoke with the central vaccuming sales reps, they had very
little to recommend their systems over a regular vaccuum cleaner on each
floor. For $500-$1000 extra, the central vaccuuming system is quieter (noise
is tucked away in another part of the house), and the hoses are lighter than
the regular unit. The central dust-bin is emptied less frequently, and is a
bit easier to get in and out than the bag of a regular cleaner. For all
practical purposes, the ductwork cannot be cleaned. We don't even save the
electrical connection, since practicality demands a "power head" for a central
system, an attachment with a motor-driven agitator head. The idea of plugging
in the tube and the power head seemed to negate most of the convenience aspect
of central systems.
We, too, will have relatively little carpet. We haven't decided whether
or not we should get a regular vaccuum cleaner for each floor. I expect we
will, as well as keep a Shop-Vac in the basement. We may incur the minimal
extra cost to install central-system ductwork and outlets, and simply forego
the power unit and attachments. This way, any future owner will have the
option of installing the central system, but our extra money will be better
spent elsewhere.
******************************************************************************
qFrom: a...@fenchurch.mit.edu (Alan Wu)
In article <3...@guardian.UUCP> prune@.UUCP (Prune Wickart) writes:
[various comments about pros and cons of central vacuum systems]
> ... For all practical purposes,
>the ductwork cannot be cleaned.
I'm not sure what kind of cleaning the "ductwork" needs, other
than an occasional vacuuming 8^). Seriously, if you're concerned
about the tubing clogging, it rarely happens, unless you insist on
vacuuming up peanut butter, small bedsprings, or some other weird
stuff. (A standard vacuum with a filter bag doesn't take kindly to
digesting broken glass, wood chips, nails, or other items that
wouldn't bother a good CV, and a portable usually reacts by exploding
dust all over the room when the bag perforates). Most good CV's are
designed with the sharpest bend right at the inlet valve, so if
anything is going to get stuck, you can reach right in and retrieve
it.
If you do manage to get an expandable bedspring past the sharp
bend so that it catches somewhere further down the line, unclogging it
is no worse than snaking out a clogged drain pipe. You don't have to
contend with sink traps or dirty water, and any minor leaks at the
joints result in an inward flow, and soon seal themselves with fine
dust drawn from the surrounding air. When I originally installed my
CV tubing, I refrained from cementing any of the joints, other than a
few vertical runs, so that I could pull things apart in case of
clogging (if the joints were cemented, you'd simply cut the tubing
with a hacksaw and cement them back together again later). In theory,
the slight leakage of air at the joints reduces the suction a bit, but
I've found that the suction is more than adequate anyway. In spite of
a regular flow of renovation debris and ordinary house dirt, the
tubing has never clogged, which is something I can't say of my
plumbing drain lines...
> ...We don't even save the electrical connection,
>since practicality demands a "power head" for a central system, an attachment
>with a motor-driven agitator head. The idea of plugging in the tube and the
>power head seemed to negate most of the convenience aspect of central systems.
If you really need a power-driven head, there are turbine-driven
models that don't need more than the standard CV airflow (they don't
work very well with standard vacuums, due to wimpy suction). We have
one, which works quite well on carpet, and also got a small hand-held
one we occasionally use on car upholstery. They're a bit noisy, but
no worse than a standard portable without a power head. Most of the
time, a standard non-powered floor tool works well enough, given the
high suction of a good CV system. If you're tight on money, skip the
power head; you can always get one later.
If it's convenience you want, spend the money on a hose in the
closet on each floor, along with a couple of standard tools. You
don't have to get all the CV manufacturer's attachments right away,
and many other brands of tools should fit, giving you a wide range of
choice. Our favorite convertible floor tool just happens to be sold
by Shop-Vac, even though we don't have anything else made by them.
> We, too, will have relatively little carpet. We haven't decided whether
>or not we should get a regular vaccuum cleaner for each floor. I expect we
>will, as well as keep a Shop-Vac in the basement.
I gave away a Shop-Vac type vacuum, since the CV does a much
better job with less hassle. If you insist on vacuuming up 2" blocks
of wood or bushels of sawdust, you'll need a commercial CV system
(expensive); otherwise, an ordinary CV will do most jobs. If you get
off on vacuuming chips of wood and hearing them hurl down the pipe,
you'll really have fun with a filterless CV and some ball bearings or
BB shot 8^). Using my CV is still the only cleaning task I think of
as fun, and this is over 2 years after the novelty has worn off.
> ...We may incur the minimal extra cost
>to install central-system ductwork and outlets, and simply forego the power
>unit and attachments. This way, any future owner will have the option of
>installing the central system, but our extra money will be better spent
>elsewhere.
If you're doing major renovation or construction, you definitely
should get the tubing put in, even if you can't afford the CV unit.
Pre-installing CV tubing isn't expensive, and is a very wise
investment, given the increasing concern about indoor air pollution.
If you value convenience, saving time, and cleanliness, get the CV
unit as soon as you can afford it.
--alan
p.s. By "good CV", I mean one which has a true cyclonic separator,
without any filter bags to clog up and reduce suction. For details,
see my posting a few days earlier.
[In a separate note:]
My wife and I installed a central vac when we bought a 2-1/2
story 2-family house a few years ago. We're glad we did it right at
the start, since it has worked very well and has been invaluable in
cleaning up the messes from subsequent renovation work.
At first, I did some asking around with friends and relatives,
and got mostly indifferent responses. My parents had one installed in
their townhouse before they moved in, but they were unimpressed with
its performance, even when it was working. It was a Nutone with a
conventional filter bag, and when the crummy bag broke, an explosion
of dust occurred in the basement and the motor burned out. From
upstairs, the only hint of the disaster downstairs was when the motor
seized up and the weak suction stopped altogether. Needless to say,
they viewed CV's as an expensive gimmmick and advised us to forget the
whole idea.
So we were pretty skeptical when we visited the home shows and
looked at nearly a dozen different vendors of CV's. We did focus on
the HP Vacuflo, since it had once been used on a This Old House
project (not that TOH always makes the best choices, but sometimes
it's on the mark). The touted difference is that their system is
completely filterless, using a true cyclonic spin separator to extract
dirt from the exhaust air stream. The exhaust air is then piped
outside, insuring that the ultra-fine dust which can't be filtered,
plus any stale odors, are ejected outside the house.
I arranged to visit a dealer, and got permission in advance to
bring some sample dirt. I went up into our attic and swept up a bag
full of debris, including roofing granules, fiberglass tufts, broken
glass, roofing nails, 75-year-old dust, wood shavings, electrical
junction box knockout slugs, chunks of broken plaster, and other
cruft. When we visited the dealer, we showed him the debris and then
dumped it onto his carpet and tile floor. The dealer insisted on
picking out some of the pieces which were larger than a 50-cent piece,
which I considered to be fair enough. I then kicked the stuff around
and worked it into the carpet real well.
We fired up the CV and waved the open end of the hose at the
crud, and most of it vanished. The broken glass and roofing granules
made a satisfying sound as they rushed up the hose, and a knockout
slug (about the size and weight of a quarter) made impressive noises
as it hurdled pell-mell along the piping to the vacuum unit about 50
feet away. Then we connected the turbine carpet brush, which made
short work of the remaining dust.
We were duly impressed, and bought a CV unit and sufficient
tubing and fittings to install 4 inlets in our house. I wanted to try
installing the system myself, although professional installation was
also available from the dealer at an extra charge. The HP Vacuflo
installation manual was extremely well-written, with ample diagrams
and step-by-step procedures. The installation took me longer than
expected, since I was extremely careful not to damage any more plaster
than absolutely necessary, and I also ended up installing extra inlets
for more convenience.
Installation into a new house during construction is trivial if
done before the drywall or plaster is installed, and I would not skimp
on inlet locations. Retrofitting into an existing house requires
careful psyching out of the anatomy of the building and existing
piping. I ended up with an inlet in the basement, one on the first
floor for the tenant, two on the second floor (due to floor layout),
one on the third floor, one on the back porch, and even one in the
attic for very occasional use.
Our HP Vacuflo can handle anything from broken chunks of plaster
to the ultra-fine plaster dust which clogs filter bags instantly and
is death to electric motor bearings. Compared to renovation debris,
routine household dirt isn't much of a challenge. I don't enjoy
vacuuming or any type of cleaning per se, but it sure is satisfying to
see and hear the dirt flying up the hose, and knowing that whatever
gets sucked up will leave the house for good, rather than
recirculating endlessly. And vacuuming the carpets in the car (that's
what the back porch inlet is for) removes more dirt and sand than even
the high-power coin-operated vacuums at the car wash places.
There are probably a few other manufacturers making CV's of
comparable quality (I have collected literature from several dozen),
but I have direct experience with only the HP Vacuflo. They have
excellent literature which explains everything, including the 4 basic
types of CV dirt filtering, and the advantages and disadvantages of
each design (ask for their "Built-In Vacuum Fact Sheet"). There are
dealers all over the US, and they can be located by calling the
toll-free information number 1-800-VACUFLO.
This article is turning out to be rather long, but you can see
I'm very enthused about the CV's, if they're the right type. There's
lots more I could say on the subject, but I think I'll save it for
a full-length writeup later. I won't even get into things like the
wet-vacuum attachment...
As a concise summary, I think the advantages of a good CV include:
1. High suction resulting in quick effective cleaning.
2. Ability to handle construction messes as well as ordinary dirt.
3. Elimination of need to carry an awkward heavy canister vacuum.
4. Relatively quiet operation.
5. Complete removal of fine dust, including allergens.
6. No filter bags to buy, to install, or to run out of.
7. Emptying the collection canister only once or twice a year.
8. An effective, non-toxic way to deal with mosquitoes, flies, and wasps :-)
...
Good luck with your new house. I encourage you to investigate CV's
and to install a good one -- you'll be glad you did every time you clean
the house.
******************************************************************************
phe...@BBN.COM
qFrom: "Philip W. Herman Jr." <phe...@BBN.COM>
our neighbors just remodeled and installed one. a nutone that they bought
at a local do-it-yourself lumber yard for $350 (on special sale).
so far (3 months use) they like it and use it. its has a 12amp motor
(regular vacuum cleaners are 3 amps or so ?) and the say 'it really sucks'.
the price included the standard set of accessories.
i am also building a house and because of their experience was going
to install one (in about two weeks, just before they do the wallboard).
to cut down on power loss thru the ducting i was going to make sure
i had short runs with no right angle bends and work hard on
sealing all the joints. (nutome uses PVC tubing for ducting).
[He adds:]
I installed an ElectroLux central vac in our new house
after the electricians and plumbers but before the sheetrockers.
(I selected ElectroLux because we have one of their canister models
which we like and they were having a special sale -- $500)
Installation was farily easy. I dry-fit everything before gluing.
I minimized right angle bends and located everything near a central
core in the house to minimize distances -- the longest run is
about 20 ft. The suction is very good -- we're happy with the system.
******************************************************************************
(anonymous)
The built-in vacuum is the handiest item we designed into our new house.
We were using it long before the house was finished. Our architect made
one mistake that we caught, fortunately: make sure that you put inlets
so that they are within 20 feet of any point in the house, garage,
basement (if finished), garage, etc. With overlapping inlets a standard
25 foot hose (the optional 30, 40 or 45, depending on brand, is too
heavy for a small person) will reach around furniture, etc. With proper
floor plan layout, you can use double-sided inlets serving a room and a
hallway, or two rooms, etc. Have the installer use "sweeps" instead
of elbows to lessen restrictions and improve airflow. Use the largest
pipe that will fir the inlets. Route the pipe UP from each inlet for
at least 4-5 feet - in fact run your lines in the attic if you can.
That way any samll heavy objects that you suck up ( pennies, dimes,
nuts, screws, paper clips, rings (yes, I did!), etc) will immediately
drop down to the bottom of the hose port where you can reach it as soon
as you unplug the hose, and not "park" in a horizontal line or at a
later small vertical place in the vacuum line.
Our power unit is in the attached garage, on the common wall with the
kitchen and we have a outlet next to the power unit and on the far
side of the garage that an be used to vacuum out the cars and camper.
You really want to put the central vacuum unit in the garage or
service porch on an exterior wall, with the outlet piped right to the
outside (We didn't know, but a small amount of dust will go right on
through - so dump it outside). Mount the motor unit on a piece of
rigid insulation, as it will vibrate, and use the whole wall for a
sounding board otherwise. You'll be changing bags every so often,
so put it where it's easily accessible. Keep the output pipe very
short - it improves the system efficiency. I'm no engineer - but it
was something about a air pump (which is all a vacuum is anyway) being
designed to either suck or blow, and one that is designed to do one
doesn't do the other very well, so keep the exhaust pipe short, and
use "sweeps" rather than elbows. Some brands just dump to an open
pipe, I'd rather have a flapper exhaust even if it was originally
designed for a clothes dryer. I'd get the sales propaganda from all
the various brands and make your own decision. I was unable to
honestly judge the quality of the various brands, except that I
eliminated Nutone from the beginning - every piece of Nutone stuff I've
ever bought or used has been junk!
We bought an Electrolux - and we think it's great!
******************************************************************************
qFrom: <rti!pacbell.pacbell.com!ptsfa!nh>
We have a central vacuum system, it is by Nutone.
I love it, it works quite well. I have to admit
that about every 4th time I get out my Electrolux
just in case it isn't getting it all. But, quite
honestly I think it does just fine. It is especially
nice for hurry up cleaning, much easier to get out
just a hose than the entire vacuum and attachments.
I really like it for doing tops of drapes and ceiling
fans, it reaches up where the Electrolux requires
lifting the canister because the hose isn't long
enough. I have no idea how much they are, because
our's was in the house when we bought it. If it
is in your budget I personally would do it. If I
ever build a house I will definitely put one it.
My unit is in the garage and there are hook up
points in 7 locations throughout the house. I get
just as strong action at the last point as I do
at the one closest to the garage.
******************************************************************************
qFrom: rti!mojo.nec.com!finn (Finn Markmanrud)
DON'T!
We have central vacuum (came w/the house), and have used it a couple of times
on the cellar floor. It's useless on carpeting, and the suction is terrible.
We bought a Sears 4.5 HP portable, and it was like going from a Yugo to a
Caddy! Lots of power, fluffs up the carpeting real good, and pulls the dirt
out. Save youself a lot of many and hassles - don't do it!
******************************************************************************
>From: "Paul Chock" Forsythe.Stanford.EDU!AR.PBC
I would definitely recommend a CV system. Ours is made by Beam, out
of Iowa. It has tremendous suction. Part of the house has thick shag
and the beater brush, which is powered only by the suction of the
vacuum motor, has no problem doing a good job on it. Other's
comments about heavy hoses and attachments do not apply to the Beam.
Ours was in the house when we bought it a few years ago. The
literature says it is a Sears. Obviously sold through Sears but
there must be independent dealers around.
A friend just had a ystem installed in his new home in Auburn, which
is in the foothills above Sacramento. He claimed it only cost him
$500, which I think is a very reasonable price.
The most positive attribute of a CV system is that the dust and dirt
that is too small to be trapped by a vacuum's filter is vented
outside of the house, not back into the air of the room you're
trying to clean.
******************************************************************************
>From: p...@boombox.micro.umn.edu (Philip H. Kachelmyer)
... I installed a system as part of a major
remodeling project and have been very happy with it. It's been installed for
over two years now and it is one of the best investments ever made. I cannot
quote you costs. Mine is a Kenmore (Sears) unit. I must disagree with the
person who had all the negative things to say. I find that the suction is
exceptional. Mine has a 25 foot hose and can pull almost anything out of the
carpet. It is the type with the electrical wire running through the ribs in
the hose, which makes it rather convenient; no extra electrical wire to pull
along with the hose itself. Should that break, however, it would mean
replacing the entire hose, not just the electrical wire. Gotta weigh that
one. The hose and head are indeed rather bulky, but it is not a difficult unit
to use. It glides across a variety of carpets with relative ease, at least
when the powerhead is running, and storage is not a problem. It does not
require a dedicated closet to store. In fact, it comes with a wall-mount unit
that allows one to wrap the hose up quite nicely.
I agree with some of the others' comments. In particular, even if you do not
install the whole system, it would be well worth it to install the piping,
even to the floors where you will have hardwood only. With my remodeling
project I had some difficulty installing the piping in some areas. It would
have been greatly eased in totally new construction. Since the pipe is so
cheap, I think it would be best to install that and have it available should
you need it rather than to need it and have to go back to installing it once
done with the rest of the project.
Count me as a highly satisfied Central Vac User.
[he adds:]
it's now been 4.5 years and I'm as happy as ever.
******************************************************************************
>From: Linda Lawrie <rti!mcnc.org!gatech!iuvax!uiucuxc!osiris.cso.uiuc.edu!lawriel>
We bought a house about a year ago that has a central vac (Nutone).
Previously we had lived in a house that was mostly carpeted and had
a "beater" vacuum (Panasonic).
Unlike you, we have chosen to use the central vac system on the
hardwood floors (prior to a damp mop) and reserve the Panasonic
for the carpeted areas.
We have had good luck with the central vac. It should be vented
to the outside, of course. And it does seem to be reliable.
[she adds:]
We've now lived in the house 3 years and have
had very few problems with the central vac.
******************************************************************************
qFrom: sheriffp@spock (Peter Sheriff)
Since you are just building your house it may be a good idea to at
least 'rough in' the piping for a central vacuum. It will never be as
easy if you decide on a CV later. The pipe and fittings are very cheap
(even here in Canada) and the amount of work is small.
I have recently installed a CV in my four level split so I can
speak from experience. This is a twelve year old house so I didn't
have the advantage of being able to run the pipe through open walls.
I had to plan very carefully and measure three times and cut once.
Even if you don't plan to buy a CV it may be a good selling point
if you have the pipe roughed in.
We bought the Electrolux Central Vacuum which is quite expensive
but of very high quality. I am very pleased with it. No more hauling
our old canister vac around. The kids even vacuum their own rooms now.
The suction is amazing. My wife still finds it amusing to see the
small round brush attachment stick to a wall because of the high
suction. We vent directly into the basement (because we don't want to
blow out all that warmed air in the winter) and have no trouble with
recirculating dust. It is the best buy we have made in a long time.
[In a separate note:]
All of the systems I have seen use the same size pipe as the one
I installed. Call around but I think you will find that this is the
same for all systems. Many houses are already roughed in so I think
that this is a reasonable assumption.
When the pipe is installed there is a pair of wires which must
be run to each outlet. This is the low voltage control wiring which
turns the cleaner on when you insert the hose.
For cleaners with a power head there could be some differences.
Our CV has a 6 foot power cord which connects 110 Vac to the end
of the hose. This power is fed through the hose for the power head.
There is an option which allows the 110 Vac power to be fed from
the cleaner outlet without the use of the extension. We chose the
power cord option because I didn't want to go to the trouble of
wiring the 110 V to the vacuum outlet.
******************************************************************************
qFrom: rti!mcnc.org!gatech!mailrus!uunet!mfci!wadswort (John H. Wadsworth)
q mfci!wadswort
I just built a new house and installed the central vac piping.
It's a 28x32 ft colonial and i was able to get away with only
2 outlets. The total cost for fittings and pipe was about $30.
I don't know if I'll ever get the vacume itself (~$400) but
it's comforting to know I've got the option.
I've even considered adapting a portable to it! Hmmm.. Might work...
So I'd suggest you install the pipe and wire at least. It's cheap!
******************************************************************************
qFrom: da...@wucs1.wustl.edu (Dale Frye)
We installed a central vac and love it!!! I installed the inlets
several years ago while the house was being built. Last year we
we bought the vac unit (Electrolux). I've heard complaints about
central vacs not having enough suction. We have no complaints about
the unit we bought. My advise is not to buy cheap. My wife likes
the central vac because:
1: All the nasty stuff is in the garage. The noise, collection
bucket and exaust.
2: The suction is great!
With our old vac the house smelled like it had just been vacuumed.
i.e. hot and dusty. I've had the bag develop a tear and spray dust
into the air. The noise frightened our small children and put my
nerves on edge.
With the central vac the house smells clean, no dust in the air.
All the noise (and I admit it is a racket) is in the garage. I can
actually talk to the kids in a civilizied level (and tone) of voice
while vacuuming.
We have a 'power head' for cleaning carpet. It is the exact same
'power head' that Electrolux sells with their canister model.
The power for it does go through the hose. I like this better than
a seperate cord. One less thing to trip over.
Our hose is 30 ft. not counting the wand extensions. (Which were
plentiful).
We bought the vac at the St. Louis VP fair. Electrolux had a booth
set up in the crafts section. They had a special fair price that
required you to take delivery from the factory (shipped to your
home of course). It took about 2 1/2 weeks to get it. The salesperson
has only called us once and that was to make certain that we had
received the unit and it was functioning correctly.
IMHO central vacs are great if you get a good unit. They stink
if you get a cheap one. (That's the same with everything else also!!)
P.S. The one other thing that can affect the usability of the central
vac is the way the pipe is run. Keep it straight and avoid 90 degree
turns. You have to have some turns just try to keep the number of
them down.
******************************************************************************
qFrom: lgo...@umd5.umd.edu (Lewis R. Gollub)
The screen near the blower easily clogs up and cuts vacuum to ridiculously
low levels). I've moved the screen a bit lower (still needs cleaning,
but not so often) and it has now beocome our favored cleaner.
(1) No dragging a heavy vac up and down stairs (the hose must weigh
about 25% or less of our regular Kenmore vac).
(2) It cleans wood floors at least as well as the regular vac.
(3) WHen time comes to sell your house, it will be a positive!
******************************************************************************
qFrom: ste...@hpfcmgw.HP.COM (Steve Kauder)
I strongly suggest you reconsider the central vacuum if you still
can. It is more effective (and a lot easier to use) than any pull/push
around kind. Mine has about 5x the suction of most conventional
vacuums.
I also have to empty the pan (which is in the garage) a whopping 4x
per year.
All in all, it's great.
******************************************************************************
qFrom: kat...@ntmtv.UUCP (Martin Katcher)
q katcher@ntmtv
Last month we had a central vac installed in our new townhouse. Actually the
pipes were put in during the construction phase. It is a Filtex brand which
is also used comercially in office buildings, auto dealers etc. We had this
same brand in a home in the Chicago area. It has two motors in the main unit
which provides plenty of suction and air flow. The holding tank uses a
disposable bag which only need to be emptied maybe every 6 months.
The cleaning is done with a power head which has a separate electric motor
to turn a set of brushes. There is also a separate turbine powered, hand-held
brush for steps, auto, etc. The standard attachments you would get with any
vaccum cleaner are also included. The long hose is sometimes cumbersum to
deal with and we have to store it on a hook in the garage.
The main benefits are :
1. It is much quieter than a regular vaccum in the house.
2. A regular vaccum still blows fine dust thru the bag and back into your
home. The central unit takes everything into the garage. This is great for my
wife who has bad allergies.
The whole system with all attachments cost about $1300. including
installation.
******************************************************************************
qFrom: john@spycal (John Presley)
q jo...@spycal.UUCP
Several postings have put down central vacs for a number of reasons. There are
some *good* points to consider as well.
One of the main advantages is that they can be exhausted *outside* the house.
A lot of the stuff people are allergic to doesn't get stopped by a lot of
filters. If the filter is too good, the air won't go through the machine. On
a portable machine, the small stuff just gets stirred into the air again by
running the vaccuum.
Stairways are far easier to clean with a central system. There is no cannister
to accidently pull down the stairs to hit you, either!
Although there is more hose to store, there is less heavy stuff.
Central units are more powerful ( to compensate for the ductwork ), and since
the unit is usually hidden in the garage or the basement, they are a lot
quieter to operate.
If one of the larger units are chosen ( with "cyclonic" filtration ), they can
be used to clean up the workshop. Sawdust etc, would soon ruin a normal
portable unit, or you would need a "Shopvac".
Someone mentioned saving approx $2000 by not getting central vac installed.
In Canada, we had a top of the line system installed (in an existing two storey
home) for $649 Cdn, and they threw in a food processor. ($1 Cdn = .86 US).
[In a separate note:]
In article <19...@eric.mpr.ca>, wo...@handel.mpr.ca (Brian Wood) writes:
> What did you get for $649? ie. materials, labor, etc.? What CV did you
> purchase and what was the cost?
> Anybody;
> What should I consider in plumbing now and buying the CV and attachments
> later?
> Are outlets and pipes one-size-fits-all or are there different sizes?
> How is the plumbing wired for the power heads?
I got the whole shootin' match! They installed the system with three outlets -
one in the basement, and one on each floor. It came with an electric power head
but no current carrying hose. The AC for the power head is *not* plumbed into
the system. You plug it into an ordinary outlet. There is a separate electric
cord for the power head. If you opt for the current carrying hose, there is a
6 foot appliance cord on the end of the hose meant to go into the wall.
Building code says that you must have an outlet on every 12 feet of wall min,
at least here, so this works well.
The unit I purchased was a "Dynovac", if I remember correctly. It is made, I
believe, in Red Deer, Alberta. It has no filter, cyclonic separation, and a
high power, multistage blower. Another nice feature is that it was made of
a plastic material, rather than metal, so it will prevent rust problems.
It is *NOT* meant to suck up water, but if the machine is in a cold area like
the garage, and the house is humidified, condensation could be a problem.
As far as I can tell, the whole industry is standardized on piping, fittings,
and methods of control. There is a low voltage circuit connected to each outlet
to turn on the vac when you plug in a hose.
By the way, also included in the price were the standard tools, and a non-
powered floor tool, and two sets of chromed tubes for the fittings. The only
thing I paid extra for was the muffler ($20.00). Since the unit is exhausted
to the ouside, I thought that the neighbours would be happier ;-).
-- John Presley - UNiSYS Canada Inc, Calgary, Alberta - jo...@spycal.UUCP
******************************************************************************
qFrom: sco...@hprnd.HP.COM (Scott Petler)
Plumb for the central vac. Even if you are undecided about it, at least then
you'll be able to put it in later if you decide to.
We have central vac in our home, its great! We use it mainly to vacuum
our hardwood floors, tile and linoleum. No need to sweep any more.
As far as suction goes, it has plenty. Get the most powerful one you can if
you want to do carpet . Don't let Mr Kirby fool ya. The most HP you
can get on a conventional vacuum is 3HP. 110V*20Amp/(740W/HP). Even less
in practice. There is no limit to the Horsepower for central vac. Two
other big plusses>> all noise is in the garage or wherever, all small
unfiltered particles aren't blown back into the air in your house they can be
piped outside etc. Also if you plan on vacuuming carpet get the motorized
'beater' for the vacuum, it is a must for clean carpet.
******************************************************************************
qFrom: TMCL...@ucs.UAlberta.CA (Tim Mclellan)
One thing I don't think I saw mentioned was the length of the hose(s).
Some friends of ours have a CV, and she wishes she had ordered a short hose
along with the very long one. There are times when you might want to do a
quick touch up or whatever. It's a pain lugging around the whole hose for
a small job. As well, some rooms are close enough to the outlet that they
don't need such a long hose.
******************************************************************************
qFrom: John Eyles <j...@cs.unc.edu>
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 91 14:43:38 -0400
I think the units are mostly interchangeable except for the power
(carpet beater bar) heads; I think the different brands have different
ways of doing this, but I don't really know since I have hardwood and
brick floors with throw rugs.
I know that I used Nutone fittings with HP-Vacuflo unit and had no
problems at all; both are 2" OD (special size for central vac) and
have a simple pair of low voltage wires that go in parallel to all
outlets.
******************************************************************************
>From: kev...@osf.org
Date: Mon, 6 May 91 10:16:22 -0400
We are in the process of installing a CV system. We chose HP Vacuflow.
This system requires no bag or filter. Before you buy one of the others
make sure the warranty will cover a new moter should the bag/filter
get clogged and not cleaned. This is a major cause of failure and
may NOT be covered. We decided that eventually we would forget to
change/clean the filter. The filter is also responsible for a major loss
of power at the nozzle.
We have also run into a few contractors who recommend HP Vacuflow. Claiming
that they are commercial grade. These people claim not to be involved with
the company. One contractor we ran into was buying one to send to his
cousin in Europe. Not a bad endorsement.
******************************************************************************
qFrom: John Parsons <jo...@hpgrgu.gr.hp.com>
Date: Wed, 8 May 91 15:18:29 mdt
$700 seems about right for the 2-motor model. The 220v model was
priced higher, I believe, and had a longer lead time. The dealer
said in his experience, the 220v model didn't perform as well.
It didn't occur to me until later that his experience was probably
in commercial or large apartment buildings that are served by
3-phase power. There, "220" outlets are really 208 volts, but in
a single family house with single-phase service, the "220" outlets
are always twice the voltage of the "110".
The 20-amp model requires a 30-amp circuit, thus 10-gauge wire.
The 220v model should require half the current, assuming the same
power rating, and generally can be expected to be more efficient.
Not a *lot* more, but I'm an EE and I'm into little details like
that. :-)
Our little bungalow is roughly 3800 sq.ft., and I also ran pipes
to the basement and garage. I'm not a hydraulics engineer, but I
figure it's airflow that actually gets the dirt moving off the
floor and through the pipes. And at this altitude (5,000 ft),
you can't get as much of a pressure differential as at sea level
no matter how powerful the motor.
******************************************************************************
>From: pme...@ichips.intel.com (Paul Meyer)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 91 17:21:06 EDT
>With all these talks about dust and Rainbow vacuum cleaner,
>I wonder why no one mentions central vac. systems.
>Seems to me it's the ultimate solution.
I agree. I have central vac. We roughed it in when the house was
built, and I just installed an HP vacuflo unit.
One caveat, though. Make sure you get a system that uses true
cyclonic separation and vents externally. Some of them use filters
and such for separation. Some of them now use cyclonic separation,
but they put a filter over the blower air intake, and then vent into
the garage or basement, wherever you have it installed. These units
are really no better than a regular vacuum. Small dust particles are
still inside. And both the bag type and the filter type have parts
that get clogged up over time (although they are still better than
regular vacuums)
The way to go is with a true cyclonic separator, with no
filters or bags anywhere in the system and venting externally. All
dirt and dust is dumped into a 5+ gallon bucket at the bottom, all
fine dust blows outside.
By the way: central vacs have other uses. We use ours to suck
up crickets when they get in the house.
******************************************************************************
******************************************************************************
Rainbow vacuum cleaners, which use a bowl of water to catch the dust, instead
of a paper filter.
******************************************************************************
qFrom: ds...@ophiuchi.nswc.navy.mil (Dave Sill)
In article <42...@cvl.umd.edu>, an...@cvl.umd.edu (Diane J. Donaldson) writes:
> We have cats and some VERY allergic
> relatives and friends; we've heard rumors of vacuum cleaners
> with water chambers (???) so the dust doesn't escape into
> the air again.
That would be the Rainbow. My wife has severe hayfever and dust
allergies, and her allergist recommended the Rainbow. In fact, he
even wrote her a prescription for one, making it a tax-deductible
medical expense! But they are expensive. We paid roughly $900 or so
for ours (with a power nozzle). I later saw a few used Rainbows
advertized for *much* less.
But the sucker, pun intentional, *does* work. As far as I know,
they're only marketed through direct sales, i.e., you can't buy them
in stores. A salescritter will demo it in your home, and offer you a
"tonite-only" discount of $100-$150. It's sleazy, I know, but what
can you do?
> Are these worth the money?
I wouldn't pay the inflated, non-discounted price, but it *is* well
made, and it *is* very effective at removing even the smallest
particles. They also have a 2-year warranty.
> Where can we find out about them?
Rexair, Inc.
900 Tower Drive
Suite 700
PO Box 3610
Troy, Michigan 48007
(313) 879-2600
> Or should we go with a very good standard model
> and remember to vacuum the day before allergic people visit?
Convential vacuums simply can't filter out the allergens like a
Rainbow. If you're fastidious, you could probably keep the place
clean enough with a conventional. With the Rainbow you won't have to
work as hard. Anyway, from what I've heard, a good Kirby or
Electrolux can bust a grand, so cost may not be the deciding factor.
******************************************************************************
qFrom: pas...@cs.rpi.edu (Pam Paslow)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 91 08:02:34 EDT
>In article <1991Dec17.1...@meaddata.com> j...@meaddata.com (John Belt) writes:
q>In article <31...@ogicse.ogi.edu> haka...@bogart.cse.ogi.edu (Marion
Hakanson) writes:
>>I'd avoid the Rainbow. I looked into it awhile back, as I have a
>>slight dust allergy myself. One point I learned from a vacuum cleaner
>>repair person: The Rainbow has water inside of it. This means it has
>>to be kept level. And it must be cleaned out after each use,
>>typically by washing the collector with water (these things get really
>>disgusting inside, basically a lot of muddy water & silt to clean
>>out). And they almost always end up rusting inside, requiring
>>replacement parts & a lot of maintenance.
>>
>Who was this "repair person"??? My mom has been using her Rainbow for
>14 years without requiring any replacement parts or excessive maintenance.
>I will agree that the Rainbow will have lots of gross things in the water
>to clean out, but that is what it is pulling out of the carpet! Scarry
>thought isn't it. All of that gross stuff in your carpet agravating your
>alergies. Granted that you have to rinse out the bowl after each use,
>but after seeing what comes out of your carpet the first few times you use
>it, you wonder if what your old vacuum was actually doing.
>
>I borrow my Mom's once a year and hopefully will be able to save up for one
>in the future.
>
>One additional point on purchasing a Rainbow: Wait for a show at the local
>mall where their prices are a little lower. From the price that they
>quote there, you can still get them a little lower.
I agree with John. We bought a Rainbow a little over a year ago and
my husband's dust allergies have diminished greatly. The bowl that
holds the water in the one we have is all plastic so I don't know how
it would rust. When you purchase a Rainbow the salesman goes through
the cleaning procedure with you. The dirt is gross but like John said
- it came out of your carpet. Cleanup is a pain sometimes but well
worth it.
******************************************************************************
qFrom: ji...@inchgower.WV.TEK.COM (Jim Kenney;685-2787;60-850;682-2161;inchgower)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 91 12:56:43 EDT
For Rainbow vacuum cleaners the best place to shop
is in the classified adds in the newspaper. You
can get a good used machine for 1/2 or 1/3 the
price that the sales droid wants for a new one.
We have had a (used) Rainbow for several years now.
The cleanup is a pain compared to a regular vacuum
but I think it works better.
******************************************************************************
qFrom: jd...@pbseps.sf180.PacBell.COM (Jose de la Cruz)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 91 17:55:48 EDT
We love our Rainbow. It is not just a vacuum cleaner. It can
also be used as an air purifier, a blower, etc.
We bougth our first one in 1972 for $350. It came with a
Corelle dinner set as a gift. It works great for us not just
for vacuuming the floor and the carpets. With its attachments,
I found it useful for cleaning the ceilings, the underneath
and back of the refrigerator, the almost impossible to reach
spaces of the house, purifying the air at home, blowing the
dirt from the engine of my car. It is very effective in
killing house insects too since the swirling motion of the
water kills them instantly when sucked into the container.
Like ants, roaches, spiders, etc. I use this as a wet vacuum
too. I make sure that I don't exceed the level of the water.
I know when I exceeded the level of the water when the machine
starts shaking. I turn it off and empty the container. I
repeat process until I am done. I use this to unclog the
sink in the bathroom using the suction and blowing capabili-
ties. Sometimes it doesn't work but it helps the job done.
We own our house so the Rainbow gets very handy cleaning the
mess when I do some repair inside the house.
Cleaning it is not that hard. After using, I add more water
into the container and shake it so I could easily dump the
dirty water together with dirt out. I dump the contents
into the sewer in front of my neighbor's house. Then I rinse
it well and dry it. I occasionally clean the separator of
the machine with a brush. That all what it takes. Naturally,
if you're lazy cleaning it everytime you use it, then this
not the type of vacuum for you.
It is a durable machine. I maintain it myself. So far,
everytime it fails, I was able to fix it. No need to buy
filters because water is the filter. Haven't have a problem
with our new one.
The water. The dirtier the water after using the Rainbow,
the better. This shows that you and the Rainbow did a
a good job.
Last year a Rainbow representative came to our house. My
niece invited him to demonstrate since she wanted to buy
one. When we mentioned that we have an old one, he offered
us a trade-in value of $300 for our 18 years old Rainbow.
The new one cost $900. So for $600 we got a brand new
Rainbow, a much improved vacuum cleaner as compared to the
old model.
Our net cost of our first Rainbow, which we used for 18 years,
is almost nothing. We paid $350 for it which came with the
Corelle set. Got a trade-in value of $300 and we are still
Bill Seurer
From where did you do-it-yourselfers get the equipment?
--
- Bill Seurer ID Tools and Compiler Development IBM Rochester, MN
Business: BillS...@vnet.ibm.com Home: BillS...@aol.com
Home page: http://members.aol.com/BillSeurer
Edward Cheung
Bill Seurer wrote:
>
> From where did you do-it-yourselfers get the equipment?
I bought my stuff (CV unit, tubing, toolkits etc.) from a friend who is
a dealer. He lives in VA. I can get his info if you want me to.
I also noticed that a compatible line (identically sized tubes and
fittings) is available at my local hardware home center--Lowe's.
Daniel C. Mattrazzo
Robert L. Bass wrote:
>
> I have an opinion. Vacuums are not automation.
You need to get the word out. I heard of a guy who
had a central vac put in his new home. Then after
about a month or so, he was talking with a freind
(the one who relayed this story). The friend said,
"So how's that central vac?"
The vac owner replied "I don't know" in a disgruntled
voice. "I'm not sure it's working. My carpets are
looking kinda dingy. I think maybe I need to hook
something up or something. There a box with all these
hoses and stuff, but I'm not sure what they're for..."
---------------------------------------
Dan Mattrazzo
Factory Automation Software Engineer
Components Automation Systems
Intel Corp.
Chandler, Arizona
**** These comments are completely ****
**** my own and do NOT reflect the ****
**** thoughts of Intel Corporation ****
---------------------------------------
Ron
On Fri, 29 Nov 1996 17:09:37 GMT, al...@li.net (Gus Altobello, Jr.)
wrote:
>Peter Sylvester <pet...@mitre.org> wrote:
>
>> >
>> > > My wife and I are building a new house, and I am going to install a
>> > > central vacuum system. I have narrowed down my search (I think) to
>>
>> Anyone have opinions on the Electrolux unit, or how it compares to the
>> Nutone?
>> Thanks,
>> -Peter
>
As a retailer for Eureka brand central vacuum cleaners (actually more
of a hobby than a job) and a owner of one, I find it very hard to
think that I used a portable for so long (Electrolux). The dirt that
was sucked up the first time we used it was , er, well disgusting! Our
house is only a year old to make things worse.
Now as a retailer, the Eureka brand offers a 1 year money back
guarantee if you don't like it, or it doesn't exceed your
expectations. Depending on the model, it also has a 7 year warranty!!
I'm not sure how much vacuums are in the US but all this can be
purchased in Canadian funds for usually $800 to $900!! where the
Electrolux is around $1100. Plus the Eureka has a rating of 136" on
the water lift. (that's how high it will suck water up a tube)
Ron aud...@agt.net
RjR
We had an Eureka central vac installed in our new home about three years
ago and are very happy with the system. It was the most cost effective
unit at the time and is performing very well.