Jo Ann Liebler's new show [ Re: Bob Vila is a Jerk ]
Wen-King Su
In a previous article fox...@www.mindspring.com (Foxeye) writes:
:
;fox...@mindspring.com wrote:
:
;I agree 10000% Bob Vila is a self centered jerk, and for what its
:worth you can throw that reneck Norm Abrams in there with him as well.
;
:The show with the guy and gal (Robin is her name , strange, can't
;remember his) but anywat, they seem to be down to the average joes
:level, and don't imply they are arogant and self centered. Its more
;my style. I woulod rather watch Tool time than Thus old house or
:anything with Norm, Bob, and his cronies.
His name is Dean, and on the screen he appears to have dumped a serie of
female cohosts over the years, and many viewers hated his gut after Jo Ann
left. Jo Ann is back now on a different show. Last year she was on HGTV
in a show called Room for Change. The show is still on, but I am not
sure if it is still being produced. It is an home redecoration show. I
think it is a bit cheesy, and her hair and outfit never looked right.
This year she is on TLC in a show called House Savvy, where she tackles
small remodeling jobs. She is delightful, and she no longer plays second
fiddle to a man. I guess it reflects the reality of 90's society --
marriages, divorces, and women making it on their own.
Mitch Sako
Wen-King Su (wen-...@myri.com) wrote:
: :The show with the guy and gal (Robin is her name , strange, can't
: ;remember his) but anywat, they seem to be down to the average joes
: :level, and don't imply they are arogant and self centered. Its more
: ;my style. I woulod rather watch Tool time than Thus old house or
: :anything with Norm, Bob, and his cronies.
: His name is Dean, and on the screen he appears to have dumped a serie of
: female cohosts over the years, and many viewers hated his gut after Jo Ann
: left. Jo Ann is back now on a different show. Last year she was on HGTV
I met Dean Johnson and Robin Hartl last year at a home show appearance.
Dean addressed this question. He did not "dump" any of the past
co-hosts. Joanne Liebler wanted to do standup comedy in California
and it didn't work out. Susanne Egli decided to part ways and move
on. He has a female co-host because PBS required it in order to
run the show. Robin is absolutely beautiful in person, by the way,
the camera is not doing her justice.
: in a show called Room for Change. The show is still on, but I am not
: sure if it is still being produced. It is an home redecoration show. I
: think it is a bit cheesy, and her hair and outfit never looked right.
: This year she is on TLC in a show called House Savvy, where she tackles
: small remodeling jobs. She is delightful, and she no longer plays second
: fiddle to a man. I guess it reflects the reality of 90's society --
: marriages, divorces, and women making it on their own.
The whole issue of playing second fiddle, etc. was an absolute requirement
in order to get the show on the air (PBS, where it runs first, TLC
where it runs in syndication). One huge difference I see is that
Hometime pays for everything, the homeowner pays for nothing, except
the intrusion of having camera crews in their home. On This Old House
the homeowner pays for some or most of the construction costs as I
understand it. One of Dean's activities includes driving around
the Minneapolis area looking for projects to put on the air. He mentions
that he often cold calls a homeowner, coming to the door unannounced
asking them if they want free improvements to their home. He mentions
that he is from Hometime on PBS and gets the door slammed in his face
at times, people blowing him off when he is offering them free home
improvement.
I'll tell you what, Dean is welcome in my home or yard anytime he
wishes.
--
----------------------------------------------------------
Mitch Sako (remove SPAM to reply) ms...@SPAMnetcom.com
Mike Fox
Mitch Sako wrote:
>unid...@mindspring.com wrote:
> : His name is Dean, and on the screen he appears to have dumped a serie of
> : female cohosts over the years, and many viewers hated his gut after Jo Ann
> : left. Jo Ann is back now on a different show. Last year she was on HGTV
>
> I met Dean Johnson and Robin Hartl last year at a home show appearance.
> Dean addressed this question. He did not "dump" any of the past
> co-hosts. Joanne Liebler wanted to do standup comedy in California
> and it didn't work out. Susanne Egli decided to part ways and move
> on. He has a female co-host because PBS required it in order to
> run the show. Robin is absolutely beautiful in person, by the way,
> the camera is not doing her justice.
You are right Mitch. Joanne Liebler left the show of her own accord,
as did Egli. People should really learn something before they shoot
off. Go to http://www.hometime.com/tv/cohosts.htm, there is a history
of all the female co-hosts there. Nothing to hide, no dumping
involved. Even mentions Joanne's "competing" show.
Someone said that Dean was implying that he's shacking with the
co-hosts. Before the web page was redesigned, there was a discussion of
that, in which they said that for a couple of seasons the show tried to
present the projects as they might look to a married couple doing the
work themselves. They agreed it was a bad idea, and have reverted to
the more professional look in their more recent shows -- I agree that
it's better without the cutsie stuff.
Mike
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John C. Dechon
Mitch Sako (ms...@netcom.com) wrote:
> Wen-King Su (wen-...@myri.com) wrote:
> : :The show with the guy and gal (Robin is her name , strange, can't
> : ;remember his) but anywat, they seem to be down to the average joes
> : :level, and don't imply they are arogant and self centered. Its more
> : ;my style. I woulod rather watch Tool time than Thus old house or
> : :anything with Norm, Bob, and his cronies.
> : His name is Dean, and on the screen he appears to have dumped a serie of
> : female cohosts over the years, and many viewers hated his gut after Jo Ann
> : left. Jo Ann is back now on a different show. Last year she was on HGTV
> I met Dean Johnson and Robin Hartl last year at a home show appearance.
> Dean addressed this question. He did not "dump" any of the past
> co-hosts. Joanne Liebler wanted to do standup comedy in California
> and it didn't work out. Susanne Egli decided to part ways and move
> on. He has a female co-host because PBS required it in order to
> run the show. Robin is absolutely beautiful in person, by the way,
> the camera is not doing her justice.
> : in a show called Room for Change. The show is still on, but I am not
Mostly, I have to agree with Mitch.
My favorite show is Hometime (after a few years when This Old House began
to show Bob in less-pleasant light), although since I work every Saturday
at a local Habitat for Humanity site, which, BTW, was encouraged by
Dean on one of his shows re: Habitat, an organization to which he, Jojo,
Robin have OFTEN contributed time and resources), I only see Hometime
reruns during the week on the The Learning Channel. I have no idea what the
"live" (current) show is doing.
I never thought Dean "dumped" ANY of his co-hosts, I thought possibly
that for some, the work was too hard. Anyone in construction knows it's
not easy work, and is often tedious and thankless...takes a lot to stick
with it. I DID know the women were all wannabe actresses, so it's not
surprising Jojo left for Hollywood (but as she said, the competition out
there is tough, and she did not stay long).
As for second-fiddle, "Hometime Video Publishing" in Chaska, MN, is DEAN's
company, not any of his co-hosts on the shows, so HE was the boss
anyway. But even if he DID want to "dump" someone it would have been his
perogative...just find another woman for the shows on PBS, but he does not
have to play that game at Hometime Video Publishing...it's his to run as he
wishes, so what's wrong with that?
But really, Dean comes across much more real and likeable than Bob Vila,
but I don't agree that Bob and Norm are both the same: Norm is much more
pleasant a person, and down-to-earth than abrasive/pushy Bob.
As for Robin Hartl, I admire her persistence still doing all that stuff
much longer that Jojo did, but prefer the latter co-host
personally...never really warmed up to Robin.
John Dechon
El Paso, TX
Douglas S. Caprette
In a previous article, ms...@netcom.com (Mitch Sako) says:
>Wen-King Su (wen-...@myri.com) wrote:
>: :The show with the guy and gal (Robin is her name , strange, can't
>: ;remember his) but anywat, they seem to be down to the average joes
>: :level, and don't imply they are arogant and self centered. Its more
>: ;my style. I woulod rather watch Tool time than Thus old house or
>: :anything with Norm, Bob, and his cronies.
>: His name is Dean, and on the screen he appears to have dumped a serie of
>: female cohosts over the years, and many viewers hated his gut after Jo Ann
>: left. Jo Ann is back now on a different show. Last year she was on HGTV
>
>I met Dean Johnson and Robin Hartl last year at a home show appearance.
>Dean addressed this question. He did not "dump" any of the past
>co-hosts. Joanne Liebler wanted to do standup comedy in California
>and it didn't work out.
She also did a Tidy Bowl commercial.
>
>: in a show called Room for Change. The show is still on, but I am not
>: sure if it is still being produced. It is an home redecoration show. I
>: think it is a bit cheesy, and her hair and outfit never looked right.
>: This year she is on TLC in a show called House Savvy, where she tackles
>: small remodeling jobs. She is delightful, and she no longer plays second
>: fiddle to a man. I guess it reflects the reality of 90's society --
>: marriages, divorces, and women making it on their own.
>
It's good to see her career is back up out of the toilet...
--
DS Caprette
"There's a little truth in all jive, and a little jive in all truth."
-- Leonard Q. Barnes
Midgard
I dunno I've seen Jo ann Lieblers new show and found it boring and dry......
Even my wife wasn't too thrilled with it.
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Jack
On Tue, 2 Sep 1997 06:02:05 GMT, ms...@netcom.com (Mitch Sako) wrote:
>I met Dean Johnson and Robin Hartl last year at a home show appearance.
>Dean addressed this question. He did not "dump" any of the past
>co-hosts. Joanne Liebler wanted to do standup comedy in California
>and it didn't work out. Susanne Egli decided to part ways and move
>on. He has a female co-host because PBS required it in order to
>run the show. Robin is absolutely beautiful in person, by the way,
>the camera is not doing her justice.
>
Maybe if she combed her hair and dressed less like a lumberjack she
would seem more pleasantly attractive.
My objection to the show is that I don't think that the husband - wife
act is the only theatrics.The construction crew listed in the credits
suggest that Dean and (whomever) do a little work for the camera and
real carpenters do the real work.
Jack
Mike
In article <5unkl8$s...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>, bog...@worldnet.att.net
says...
I don't read the credits and can tell you that. Neither of them can hardley
drive a nail! That doesn't stop me from enjoying the show though...
--
Because the junk mailers of the world think my address is their play thing,
my e-mail address will not be revealed. Please respond publicly.
************Thank you junk mailers for ruining the internet************
Eric A. Mercer
Jack wrote:
>
> On Tue, 2 Sep 1997 06:02:05 GMT, ms...@netcom.com (Mitch Sako) wrote:
>
> >I met Dean Johnson and Robin Hartl last year at a home show appearance.
> >Dean addressed this question. He did not "dump" any of the past
>
> My objection to the show is that I don't think that the husband - wife
> act is the only theatrics.The construction crew listed in the credits
> suggest that Dean and (whomever) do a little work for the camera and
> real carpenters do the real work.
>
Well, what do you expect. Can you imagine how the show would look if
they actually did *all* the work?
DEAN: Hi (huff, huff), I'm (huff) Dean Johnson (huff, wheeze), and I
just (huff) carried 100 pounds (wheeze) of shingles up to this (huff)
roof. I (clutches chest) AGH! Robin dial 911! (falls from roof. hits
ground with a thud).
Try not to forget that this show tries to be *entertaining* as well as
educational. Do we really want to see sweaty construction workers &
butt-cracks? Haven't we all seen enough of that in our own homes?
;-)
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
|Eric A. Mercer GRASP Lab, University of Pennsylvania |
|eme...@central.cis.upenn.edu office: (215)573-3594 |
Mark A. Yedinak
> drive a nail! That doesn't stop me from enjoying the show though...
>
Actually, Dean was a residential contractor according to his bio on the
PBS web page. Robin has also rehabbed several houses. They both have
some experience with construction and remodeling. They are the hosts of
the show and are busy presenting the material. Besides, if only the two
of them did the porjects, I don't suspect they could complete too many
in a year. I don't think it is unrealistic to have a crew doing a
majority of the work behinds the scenes. It doesn't really change the
information they are presenting.
--
Mark A. Yedinak - Lead Engineer * Don't take life
Tellabs Operations, Inc. * seriously, you will
Phone: 1-630-378-6020 * never make it out
email: myed...@tellabs.com * alive!
Richard Chandler
In article <5unkl8$s...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>,
Jack <bog...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>My objection to the show is that I don't think that the husband - wife
>act is the only theatrics.The construction crew listed in the credits
>suggest that Dean and (whomever) do a little work for the camera and
>real carpenters do the real work.
The thing that bugged me about the show was that there always seemed to be
a small background level of man-bashing in it. If there was a wrong or
hard way to do something, Dean was the one who was doing it before Joanne
would come along and say "Here, try this tool which makes the job smooth
and automatic."
--
On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog... but they can tell right
off the bat if you're an idiot! -- Me
http://www.teleport.com/~mauser/ Gallery Web Page
"Yeah, I've got ADD, wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
buzz
Mark A. Yedinak wrote:
The episode that took the cake was when these two jokers were showing how to
install a ceramic tile shower including tile at the floor and curb, and didn't use
any type of shower pan liner whatsoever. Just cement. thin-setted the tile that.
The first time that shower is turned on there'd be a flood that Noah would raise
an eyebrow to.
They should stick to watering lawns, and let Tim & Al do the comedy.
--
~Buzz~
mailto:ab...@pacbell.net
Craig
My problem with this show is this.... when are they going to acutally show
a single procedure whether new installation or trouble shooting in any
worthy detail -that someone could actually take notes from? The only
"how-to" is how-to get in product plugs under the guise of a teaching
program. Most of these type shows could use less " this is us putting up
the cabinets" crap and show people something fundamentally worthwhile to
cabinet installation like how to hang cabinets in a log home. In fact I
now believe you can rate these programs on how many times the viewer says to
themself " wow, I didn't know that". Most of them would fail miserably.
Now I wouldn't mind seeing butt cracks once in awhile....but I don't think
Joanne would accomodate that request....
Mark A. Yedinak wrote in article <34106B...@tellabs.com>...
Mitch Sako
Mark A. Yedinak (myed...@tellabs.com) wrote:
: Mike wrote:
: > In article <5unkl8$s...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>, bog...@worldnet.att.net
: > I don't read the credits and can tell you that. Neither of them can hardley
: > drive a nail! That doesn't stop me from enjoying the show though...
: Actually, Dean was a residential contractor according to his bio on the
: PBS web page. Robin has also rehabbed several houses. They both have
: some experience with construction and remodeling. They are the hosts of
That's the main point, both of them do have experience in doing
this stuff. Their main job is to present it to the camera (no small
task) and make it look enjoyable and interesting which I think
they do achieve.
: the show and are busy presenting the material. Besides, if only the two
: of them did the porjects, I don't suspect they could complete too many
: in a year. I don't think it is unrealistic to have a crew doing a
: majority of the work behinds the scenes. It doesn't really change the
: information they are presenting.
I agree.
Mitch Sako
Jack (bog...@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
: On Tue, 2 Sep 1997 06:02:05 GMT, ms...@netcom.com (Mitch Sako) wrote:
: >I met Dean Johnson and Robin Hartl last year at a home show appearance.
: >Dean addressed this question. He did not "dump" any of the past
: >and it didn't work out. Susanne Egli decided to part ways and move
: >on. He has a female co-host because PBS required it in order to
: >run the show. Robin is absolutely beautiful in person, by the way,
: >the camera is not doing her justice.
: Maybe if she combed her hair and dressed less like a lumberjack she
: would seem more pleasantly attractive.
Let me just reserve some words here, the camera doesn't do her
any justice. Meet her in person and you may feel different.
She's one of the most charming ladies I've ever met. The
lumberjack look is far from butch, she does it in a very
feminine way.
: My objection to the show is that I don't think that the husband - wife
: act is the only theatrics.The construction crew listed in the credits
: suggest that Dean and (whomever) do a little work for the camera and
: real carpenters do the real work.
Dirty little secret from Dean: Question-How much work do you
(Dean and Robin) actually do on a project? Answer-You see
almost all of it on TV.
Dean explained that since he is the producer and project manager
he doesn't really have much time to do the real work. They always
have a crew doing most of the work and I'm not sure that they
always try to conceal this fact, they just don't make it obvious
that they do so little of it. On the show
where they worked on the commercial building, I think Dean did a
real honest disclosure at the end of the show and introduced all of
the crew in a group shot.
Keith Bohn
On more than one occasion Dean has let the cat out of the bag that he
and his co-host of the moment don't do all the work. He's not hiding
anything.
Keith Bohn
Bohn & Bonn Design
>>On Tue, 2 Sep 1997 06:02:05 GMT, ms...@netcom.com (Mitch Sako) wrote:
Snip
da...@cris.com
"Craig" <max...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> My problem with this show is this.... when are they going to acutally show
>a single procedure whether new installation or trouble shooting in any
>worthy detail -that someone could actually take notes from? The only
>"how-to" is how-to get in product plugs under the guise of a teaching
>program. Most of these type shows could use less " this is us putting up
>the cabinets" crap and show people something fundamentally worthwhile to
>cabinet installation like how to hang cabinets in a log home. In fact I
>now believe you can rate these programs on how many times the viewer says to
>themself " wow, I didn't know that". Most of them would fail miserably.
>Now I wouldn't mind seeing butt cracks once in awhile....but I don't think
>Joanne would accomodate that request....
Well, no butt cracks but I saw the show where Dean and Joanne did the
hot tub install and at the end, Joanne got into the hot tub in a
conservative bikini. Let me tell you, those clothes hide a lot. She
had a body that would make a lot of 20 year olds I know look flabby!
Sure like to see Robin in that setting...
Danny
>>> I don't read the credits and can tell you that. Neither of them can
>hardley
>>> drive a nail! That doesn't stop me from enjoying the show though...
>>>
>>
>>Actually, Dean was a residential contractor according to his bio on the
>>PBS web page. Robin has also rehabbed several houses. They both have
>>some experience with construction and remodeling. They are the hosts of
>>the show and are busy presenting the material. Besides, if only the two
>>of them did the porjects, I don't suspect they could complete too many
>>in a year. I don't think it is unrealistic to have a crew doing a
>>majority of the work behinds the scenes. It doesn't really change the
>>information they are presenting.
>>--
>>Mark A. Yedinak - Lead Engineer * Don't take life
>>Tellabs Operations, Inc. * seriously, you will
>>Phone: 1-630-378-6020 * never make it out
>>email: myed...@tellabs.com * alive!
John Bercik
The problem with all these shows is they don't make mistakes. When I do a
project, I'm bleeding, shearing off nuts, cutting wood the wrong length and
just generally breaking things. They need to show how to get out of these
jams.
They just say "OK, check the deck for square by measuring diagonally from
one corner to the other and making sure both are the same" Ok now on to
the next task. Well, mine will most likely not be the same and they don't
tell you how to fix it. I screw up everything. I told my wife to put "He
didn't have the right tools" on my grave. hehehe
Keith Bohn
Craig,
I think you have hit the nail on the head. All this world needs is
another how to program patterened after the current fluff that exists.
I think we we are all ready for a "non-project" magazine format show
that would be designed to teach technique rather than the same drivel
re-hashed for the upteenth time.
Keith Bohn
Bohn & Bonn Design
Tom Corey
Keith Bohn wrote:
>
> I think we we are all ready for a "non-project" magazine format show
> that would be designed to teach technique rather than the same drivel
> re-hashed for the upteenth time.
>
But do they have enough money to get Krenov to wax philosophical while
showing us how to build beautiful furniture.
--
Tom Corey
to reply remove "nojunk" from address
Douglas S. Caprette
In a previous article, ber...@musc.edu (John Bercik) says:
>The problem with all these shows is they don't make mistakes. When I do a
>project, I'm bleeding, shearing off nuts,
Pardon me for pionting out the obvious but unless they're successfully
re-attached you only get two opportunities to make this specific
mistak, right?
Dane Lance
Keith Bohn <b...@execpc.com> wrote in article
<3418c7fc...@news.execpc.com>...
> On more than one occasion Dean has let the cat out of the bag that he
> and his co-host of the moment don't do all the work. He's not hiding
> anything.
>
> Keith Bohn
> Bohn & Bonn Design
>
>
> >>On Tue, 2 Sep 1997 06:02:05 GMT, ms...@netcom.com (Mitch Sako) wrote:
> Snip
> >>My objection to the show is that I don't think that the husband - wife
> >>act is the only theatrics.The construction crew listed in the credits
> >>suggest that Dean and (whomever) do a little work for the camera and
> >>real carpenters do the real work.
>
Yeah, no kidding!! Come on folks!! What is the purpose of the show??
To show how little or much work the hosts do, or to present information on how
to do it? Does it matter WHO is doing it on the show??
Man, some of you guys would gripe if you were hung with a new rope....
Reverend Chuck
Richard H. Williams wrote:
>
> It would be great if some of the acknowledged experts would commit their
> demos, lectures, or classes to video for posterity. I'm thinking of guys like
> Krenov, or Frid who are getting up in years....Sam Maloof also. I'm not
> thinking of a commercial venture, just tapes for posterity, like having
> recordings of Chopin playing his own music. This would be good for other
> trades, too...not just woodworking.
>
> Rich Williams
Or hell, why not... Andy Rooney from 60 Minutes? If he's not lying about him building
that Nakashima-style slab top desk -- complete with butterfly inlays -- that he uses
during his segment, he might be the best woodworker on TV right now. And you'd get an
entertaining side-by-side comparison of various woodworking implements. "Here's a butt
chisel made by Stanley, nice striker top, nice balance. This is an inexpensive Marples.
Same grade steel. Comfortable-looking grip. Henry Taylor still uses the old English
8-sided handle pattern. Nice if you like tradition..."
Eric A. Mercer
John Bercik wrote:
>
> The problem with all these shows is they don't make mistakes. When I do a
> just generally breaking things. They need to show how to get out of these
> jams.
>
> They just say "OK, check the deck for square by measuring diagonally from
> one corner to the other and making sure both are the same" Ok now on to
> the next task. Well, mine will most likely not be the same and they don't
> tell you how to fix it. I screw up everything. I told my wife to put "He
> didn't have the right tools" on my grave. hehehe
Not true as far as Hometime is concerned. When Joanne left, they
compiled a blooper show (things falling apart, light switches exploding,
that sort of thing), so they don't really hide their mistakes. In
addition, they do work their mistakes into the show. There was a show
when they were building a deck, and Dean pointed out that Robin put the
marks for the joist hangers in the wrong place so they had to remove &
replace them. Also, when they were building the gazebo, Dean went into
detail about how he had carefully marked and cut some boards for the
framing, and then he stopped robin from trying to use one board,
explaining that it was the one he screwed up. Even when they don't show
you the mistakes, they often mention them and explain how they worked
around them.
Jeff Jonas
In article <3416ba36...@news.execpc.com>
b...@execpc.com (Keith Bohn) writes:
>Craig,
>I think you have hit the nail on the head. All this world needs is
>another how to program patterened after the current fluff that exists.
>I think we we are all ready for a "non-project" magazine format show
>that would be designed to teach technique rather than the same drivel
>re-hashed for the upteenth time.
I too lament how most magazines and shows emphasize merely ASSEMBLING things
instead of really designing and building them yourself.
I'm not a woodworker, but the woodworking magazines seem to still emphasize
projects that start with raw materials.
I lament how most computer and electronics magazines no longer have articles
of the format "build the ...".
[that's why I stopped subscribing to Byte when Steve Ciarcia left
and started his own Circuit Cellar Ink]
Here's a related thing: a friend bought a 1940s "Popular Science" magazine.
It was about half advertising, but the real articles were by craftsmen
showing things like retrofitting ball bearings into electric motors
[you had to lathe a piece of wood to fit the casing end to hold
the new bearing].
They had photos showing the process and even the language used terms that
assumed you knew what they were doing.
None of this "talking down to the audience".
--
Jeffrey Jonas
jeffj@panix(dot)com
Richard H. Williams
>I think you have hit the nail on the head. All this world needs is
>another how to program patterened after the current fluff that exists.
>I think we we are all ready for a "non-project" magazine format show
>that would be designed to teach technique rather than the same drivel
>re-hashed for the upteenth time.
>Keith Bohn
>Bohn & Bonn Design
Craig
Wow, that sounds like a sterotype insult if I ever heard one.
>
>Get real. The "best able" partner on this type of show is the one who can
>appeal to the most additional viewers. Do you think that they considered
>scouring the earth for the most able/versatile tradesman? Hell no. They'd
>probably find an old, fat, ugly, balding, semi-literate guy with only half
>his teeth and a terminal smoker's cough. Such an "able" person would
>_not_ appeal to the target audience--women who DIY (or might, if properly
>inspired).
>
And by the way, the amount of woman who are DIYer's is lower than you might
believe. I worked at Home Depot for 2 years and out of probably 20 queries
a day, 52 weeks each year = 5200 queries about location of products,
procedures, and so forth, maybe 50 came from women who were attempting to do
it themselves. Out of 50 women, only about 3 of them said they had prior
experience and confidence. I distinctly remember at least 10 of the 50 that
came back either in tears or pissed off that someone didn't tell them to
read the can or some nonsense to divert the blame.
Networks don't cast female workers to appeal to women, or because there
is an actual female market out there. They do it because this is the 90's
and they don't want to step on sensitive political toes. Women are happier
just knowing there is a woman on a show like this, even if almost none of
them watch it.
Now if you're talking about an interior decorating show-that's a different
story.
Having access to information doesn't make it knowledge. Teenage mothers and
overweight americans numbers increasing.
Craig
And by the way, the amount of woman who are DIYer's is lower than you might
believe. I worked at Home Depot for 2 years and out of probably 20 queries
procedures, and so forth, maybe 50 (1/2 of 1%) came from women who were
attempting to do
it themselves. Out of 50 women, only about 3 of them said they had prior
experience and confidence. I distinctly remember at least 10 of the 50 that
came back either in tears or pissed off that someone didn't tell them to
read the can or some nonsense to divert the blame.
Networks don't cast female workers to appeal to women, or because there
is an actual female market out there. They do it because this is the 90's
and they don't want to step on sensitive political toes. Women are happier
just knowing there is a woman on a show like this, even if almost none of
them watch it.
Now if you're talking about an interior decorating show-that's a different
story.
Having access to information doesn't make it knowledge. Teenage mothers and
overweight americans numbers increasing.
>
>
>Get real. The "best able" partner on this type of show is the one who can
>appeal to the most additional viewers. Do you think that they considered
>scouring the earth for the most able/versatile tradesman? Hell no. They'd
>probably find an old, fat, ugly, balding, semi-literate guy with only half
>his teeth and a terminal smoker's cough. Such an "able" person would
>_not_ appeal to the target audience--women who DIY (or might, if properly
>inspired).
>
>There is a growing population of do-it-themselves women out there, and PBS
>apparently wanted a show that would appeal to them as well. Thus a co-host
>that they can identify with.
>
da...@cris.com
>>conservative bikini.
>Isn't that an oxymoron?
>--
>Charles
>Please reply to dew...@airmail.net to reduce spam.
>"The price of liberty is eternal vigilance." --Thomas Jefferson
Depends on your definition of "conservative". How about as opposed to
a string bikini?
Danny
da...@cris.com
C. Brunner
I was briefly addicted to the sequence of home-improvement programs shown on
TLC on Saturdays. After weeks of watching Bob Vila belittle homeowners and
make snide remarks about their decorating choices and limited budgets, I
started turning off "Renovation Guide". Theres a skinny carpenter with a
Yankee accent (NOT Norm... is it Riley?) who works with Vila sometimes. I
like him--he seems to give it right back. I gave up on Norm when they decided
to "renovate" a young couple's bungalow-style home in California. The project
went WAAAY over budget, partly because of unexpected problems and partly, it
seemed, because of damage due to screw-ups by the Vila construction crew.
The house had to be raised to repair/replace the foundation, and when it was
lowered it hung up on a central chimney and some interior walls actually
"tore". This necessitated major work in rooms that were not supposed to be
involved in the project. Then, in the middle of roof work, a rainstorm
flooded the house and ruined ceilings, floors, and walls. The crew had
neglected to provide adequate protection of the work areas in case of rain.
Where was Norm during all this mess? He was busy building the couple a cute
little Craftsman-style pergola with his master-carpentry skills. And what did
Vila say about the damage (and the cost)? Oh well, these things happen.
Dean Johnson is believable, and so is whoever he's paired with. But I don't
watch "JoJo's" new shows, because the dialog is idiotic! I suppose she's
supposed to represent the "modern woman" (especially on the "House Savvy"
show). Some of the comments she makes when "helping" with a task are so
inane, I'm embarrassed.
Then again, neither Vila nor JoJo are as bad as some of the other stuff they
feed to us on TV...
C. Brunner
MJ Thompson
>I gave up on Norm when they decided
>to "renovate" a young couple's bungalow-style home in California. The project
>went WAAAY over budget, partly because of unexpected problems and partly, it
>seemed, because of damage due to screw-ups by the Vila construction crew.
I have a distinctly different (and correct :-) ) memory
of this episode. First, it occurred after Bob left and
Hollywood Steve was on board. Second, it was not over budget,
something they pointed out in each episode even though they
kept doing more and more. Third, in the last episode they
went through the budget (something they do not do anymore)
and it hit the budget right on at $60k with a total cost
of $130k, ???. Forth, there was a large case of the mizwells--while
redoing the interior might as well fix the bad foundation,
while fixing the bad foundation might as well fix the plumbing,
hot water heater, and heat source, while fixing the plumbing
might as well put in a sprinkler system...
So as they kept adding stuff and yet saying there were still
on budget I kept wondering how only to later find out they
got $70k of freebees (or as they called them, donations).
I also saw it as a landmark show in terms of the prominence
of workers with large ads for their employers on their t-shirts
and such. It seemed like the subs of California had been waiting
some time to get in on TOH advertising.
As I said they no longer gave budget details after this but
by paying very close attention I found out that in one of their
following projects the homeowner paid $200k for $400k of
improvements and in another $250k for $500k.
As for Hometime, the one show of this kind which I never
watch, I find it interesting how accepting everyone has been
of the PBS quota requiring Dean Johnson to hire a women
partner rather than the best able partner. The gender
war is over and the female sexists have won!
Carol D'Agostino
In article <rwilliam.1...@coefac.engr.wisc.edu>,
Richard H. Williams <rwil...@coefac.engr.wisc.edu> wrote:
>In article <3416ba36...@news.execpc.com> b...@execpc.com (Keith Bohn) writes:
>>
>>Craig,
>
>>I think you have hit the nail on the head. All this world needs is
>>another how to program patterened after the current fluff that exists.
>
>>I think we we are all ready for a "non-project" magazine format show
>>that would be designed to teach technique rather than the same drivel
>>re-hashed for the upteenth time.
>
>>Keith Bohn
>>Bohn & Bonn Design
I thought that's what Bob Vila was doing in his new Home Show <yawn>.
Showing the viewer stepbystepbystep... how to frame and allthat
stuff.
He finally finished his all-red house. I'll bet you need dark glasses
to live there.
Carol
JOHN PHIPPS
In all of the hoopla of this thread, I have yet to read the name of Ms.
Liebler's new show, or what stations/channels carry it. Can anyone
enlighten me on this?
--
Dave Hayes
In article <341562...@netacc.com>, m...@netacc.com wrote:
> As for Hometime, the one show of this kind which I never
> watch, I find it interesting how accepting everyone has been
> of the PBS quota requiring Dean Johnson to hire a women
> partner rather than the best able partner. The gender
> war is over and the female sexists have won!
Get real. The "best able" partner on this type of show is the one who can
appeal to the most additional viewers. Do you think that they considered
scouring the earth for the most able/versatile tradesman? Hell no. They'd
probably find an old, fat, ugly, balding, semi-literate guy with only half
his teeth and a terminal smoker's cough. Such an "able" person would
_not_ appeal to the target audience--women who DIY (or might, if properly
inspired).
There is a growing population of do-it-themselves women out there, and PBS
apparently wanted a show that would appeal to them as well. Thus a co-host
that they can identify with.
Dave Hayes
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
Do NOT make the mistake of assuming that the ideas
or opinions expressed here are even remotely similar
to the ideas or opinions of my employer.
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(to email me, replace "no_spam" with "david.m.hayes")
Steven Blair
On Tue, 09 Sep 1997 14:52:03 +0000, MJ Thompson <m...@netacc.com>
wrote:
>As for Hometime, the one show of this kind which I never
>watch, I find it interesting how accepting everyone has been
>of the PBS quota requiring Dean Johnson to hire a women
>partner rather than the best able partner. The gender
>war is over and the female sexists have won!
MJ,
How do you know that Dean doesn't pick them and just goes through more
women than you and I do?
Steve Blair
William Kucharski
While reading article <5upe0r$j...@sf18.dseg.ti.com>, I noticed that
n...@junk.mail (Mike) said the following:
>I don't read the credits and can tell you that. Neither of them can hardley
>drive a nail! That doesn't stop me from enjoying the show though...
Huh? Dean's always been very good at the work he's shown doing and Robin has
also improved quite a bit.
BTW, they don't at all hide the fact they have help on their big projects...
--
| William Kucharski | Opinions expressed herein
| Internet: kuch...@netcom.com | are MINE alone, NOT those of
| Ham: N0OKQ | of NETCOM.
| President, "Just the Ten of Us" Fan Club | "Dittos from Louisville, CO"
Brad W.
In article <5v545c$2...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>,
"Craig" <max...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> And by the way, the amount of woman who are DIYer's is lower than you might
>believe. I worked at Home Depot for 2 years and out of probably 20 queries
>a day, 52 weeks each year x 2= 10400 queries about location of products,
>procedures, and so forth, maybe 50 (1/2 of 1%) came from women who were
>attempting to do
>it themselves. Out of 50 women, only about 3 of them said they had prior
>experience and confidence. I distinctly remember at least 10 of the 50 that
>came back either in tears or pissed off that someone didn't tell them to
>read the can or some nonsense to divert the blame.
>
(1) Is it the official store policy of Home Depot that they discourage
first-time Do-It-Yourselfers? If so, how do they ever become second-time
Do-It-Yourselfers?
(2) Where do you guys take all the crying women? Is there a special lounge or
something, because I never see them when I'm there.
(3) Ever heard the commonly used male quote "Always blame the equipment?"
> Networks don't cast female workers to appeal to women, or because there
>is an actual female market out there. They do it because this is the 90's
>and they don't want to step on sensitive political toes. Women are happier
>just knowing there is a woman on a show like this, even if almost none of
>them watch it.
>
Ever thought that they might do it on the off chance that women might be
interested and that they would be idiotic for ignoring a possible market. I
guess they never check their demographics to find out, like you obviously
have, that "almost none" of the women watch their show. Man, you think that
they, being in the television business and everything, would have figured that
out by now.
>Now if you're talking about an interior decorating show-that's a different
>story.
>
Man, how did Home Depot let a genius like you slip through their fingers?
Brad W.
In article <no_spam-0909...@128.181.96.144>,
no_...@tek.com (Dave Hayes) wrote:
>
>In article <341562...@netacc.com>, m...@netacc.com wrote:
>
>> As for Hometime, the one show of this kind which I never
>> watch, I find it interesting how accepting everyone has been
>> of the PBS quota requiring Dean Johnson to hire a women
>> partner rather than the best able partner. The gender
>> war is over and the female sexists have won!
Its not PBSs policy, its the whole premise of the show. Dean and his multiple
female sidekicks are supposed to appear as a married couple on the show, and
though it does get goofy at times, it serves a reasonable purpose which I
appreciate.
I wish I had the money to keep one household open while they renovated
my second home (like on TOH), but I don't. I can't go live in a hotel while
the whole interior is ripped apart and replaced. The premise of Hometime is
that these people (Dean and whoever) actually live in the place and are going
to have to deal with the same problems the rest of us do, i.e. the fact that
you are going to have to do the bathroom renovation in stages that allow you
access to the plumbing until the last possible minute. Example of this: They
were doing the above bathroom renovation and had this really corny
conversation about "..we have that dinner party at the Wilson's this weekend,
and next weekend I have to work, so we'll leave the floor and plumbing in
until we finish the ceiling and fixtures." In my opinion, Hometime
accomplishes what it sets out to accomplish...giving a more realistic view of
what it takes to renovate your own house, build a deck, etc. For that you
need the man/woman team.
Tom Krotchko
In article <5uel2v$q...@neptune.myri.com>, wen-...@myri.com says...
>small remodeling jobs. She is delightful, and she no longer plays second
>fiddle to a man. I guess it reflects the reality of 90's society --
>marriages, divorces, and women making it on their own.
I've watched the show, and while there is good information on it, she
appears so uncomfortable that I find it difficult to watch. Perhaps its was
just a bad day for the show.
--
Tom Krotchko
<to...@access.digex.net>
Brad W.
In article <5v1cnm$i...@panix.com>, je...@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) wrote:
>
>In article <3416ba36...@news.execpc.com>
> b...@execpc.com (Keith Bohn) writes:
>>Craig,
>
>>I think you have hit the nail on the head. All this world needs is
>>another how to program patterened after the current fluff that exists.
>
>>I think we we are all ready for a "non-project" magazine format show
>>that would be designed to teach technique rather than the same drivel
>>re-hashed for the upteenth time.
I whole-heartedly agree. I would love to see an entire show or series of
shows demonstrating how to properly cut hand-cut dovetails. Or, a show that
went in-depth into the proper use of hand planes, or even power tools. Even a
show about the proper way to sharpen tools would be welcome. Something you
could put on tape and refer back to, building up your own library of technique
demonstrations.
John C. Dechon
Mitch Sako (ms...@netcom.com) wrote:
> Jack (bog...@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
> : On Tue, 2 Sep 1997 06:02:05 GMT, ms...@netcom.com (Mitch Sako) wrote:
> : >I met Dean Johnson and Robin Hartl last year at a home show appearance.
> : >Dean addressed this question. He did not "dump" any of the past
> : >co-hosts. Joanne Liebler wanted to do standup comedy in California
> : >and it didn't work out. Susanne Egli decided to part ways and move
> : >on. He has a female co-host because PBS required it in order to
> : >run the show. Robin is absolutely beautiful in person, by the way,
> : >the camera is not doing her justice.
> : Maybe if she combed her hair and dressed less like a lumberjack she
> : would seem more pleasantly attractive.
> Let me just reserve some words here, the camera doesn't do her
> any justice. Meet her in person and you may feel different.
> She's one of the most charming ladies I've ever met. The
> lumberjack look is far from butch, she does it in a very
> feminine way.
> : My objection to the show is that I don't think that the husband - wife
> : act is the only theatrics.The construction crew listed in the credits
> : suggest that Dean and (whomever) do a little work for the camera and
> : real carpenters do the real work.
> Dirty little secret from Dean: Question-How much work do you
> (Dean and Robin) actually do on a project? Answer-You see
> almost all of it on TV.
> Dean explained that since he is the producer and project manager
> he doesn't really have much time to do the real work. They always
> have a crew doing most of the work and I'm not sure that they
> always try to conceal this fact, they just don't make it obvious
> that they do so little of it. On the show
> where they worked on the commercial building, I think Dean did a
> real honest disclosure at the end of the show and introduced all of
> the crew in a group shot.
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Mitch Sako (remove SPAM to reply) ms...@SPAMnetcom.com
I recall Robin talking to Dean during the three-episode "Deck" series
(about getting dressed up and going out after work)...she
claimed not to even OWN a pair of high heels...can she spell "divorce?"
As for who's doing the work, do you recall the show where Dean and Jojo
(or Robin, I forget) acted as though they were putting up a commercial
building all by themselves? They "did" the bulldozer work, operated the
crane to place steel I-beams, etc.. Now no one actually believed THAT,
did they? (Yes, they let everyone know later on they were kidding)
John Dechon
El Paso, TX
Rudy Bob in Dallas
I think the show is a dud
and who dresses her?
John C. Dechon
.62.00...@NOTvetmed.auburn.edu> <341562...@netacc.com>
<no_spam-0909...@128.181.96.144> <5v533s$p...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>:
Organization: The Rio Grande Free-Net, El Paso Community College, El Paso, TX
Distribution:
Craig (max...@bigfoot.com) wrote:
> Wow, that sounds like a sterotype insult if I ever heard one.
> >
> >Get real. The "best able" partner on this type of show is the one who can
> >appeal to the most additional viewers. Do you think that they considered
> >scouring the earth for the most able/versatile tradesman? Hell no. They'd
> >probably find an old, fat, ugly, balding, semi-literate guy with only half
> >his teeth and a terminal smoker's cough. Such an "able" person would
> >_not_ appeal to the target audience--women who DIY (or might, if properly
> >inspired).
> >
> And by the way, the amount of woman who are DIYer's is lower than you might
> believe. I worked at Home Depot for 2 years and out of probably 20 queries
> a day, 52 weeks each year = 5200 queries about location of products,
> procedures, and so forth, maybe 50 came from women who were attempting to do
> it themselves. Out of 50 women, only about 3 of them said they had prior
> experience and confidence. I distinctly remember at least 10 of the 50 that
> came back either in tears or pissed off that someone didn't tell them to
> read the can or some nonsense to divert the blame.
> Networks don't cast female workers to appeal to women, or because there
> is an actual female market out there. They do it because this is the 90's
> and they don't want to step on sensitive political toes. Women are happier
> just knowing there is a woman on a show like this, even if almost none of
> them watch it.
> Now if you're talking about an interior decorating show-that's a different
> story.
True...they have homosexuals for those shows...who do THEY appeal to,
other gays?
John Dechon
EL Paso, TX
John C. Dechon
.62.00...@NOTvetmed.auburn.edu>
Organization: The Rio Grande Free-Net, El Paso Community College, El Paso, TX
Distribution:
C. Brunner (bru...@NOTvetmed.auburn.edu) wrote:
> I was briefly addicted to the sequence of home-improvement programs shown on
> TLC on Saturdays. After weeks of watching Bob Vila belittle homeowners and
> make snide remarks about their decorating choices and limited budgets, I
> started turning off "Renovation Guide". Theres a skinny carpenter with a
> Yankee accent (NOT Norm... is it Riley?) who works with Vila sometimes. I
> like him--he seems to give it right back. I gave up on Norm when they
decided
> to "renovate" a young couple's bungalow-style home in California. The
project
> went WAAAY over budget, partly because of unexpected problems and partly, it
> seemed, because of damage due to screw-ups by the Vila construction crew.
> The house had to be raised to repair/replace the foundation, and when it was
> lowered it hung up on a central chimney and some interior walls actually
> "tore". This necessitated major work in rooms that were not supposed to be
> involved in the project. Then, in the middle of roof work, a rainstorm
> flooded the house and ruined ceilings, floors, and walls. The crew had
> neglected to provide adequate protection of the work areas in case of rain.
> Where was Norm during all this mess? He was busy building the couple a cute
> little Craftsman-style pergola with his master-carpentry skills. And what
did
> Vila say about the damage (and the cost)? Oh well, these things happen.
> Dean Johnson is believable, and so is whoever he's paired with. But I don't
> watch "JoJo's" new shows, because the dialog is idiotic! I suppose she's
> supposed to represent the "modern woman" (especially on the "House Savvy"
> show). Some of the comments she makes when "helping" with a task are so
> inane, I'm embarrassed.
> Then again, neither Vila nor JoJo are as bad as some of the other stuff they
> feed to us on TV...
> C. Brunner
What about the 1785 Weatherbee House (not far from Boston) Bob and Norm
"restored?" It, too was way over budget, and at the end of the series,
there was only Bob and Norm to discuss the finances...the owners were NOT
present, and there was no "wrap party." This is the first time I have not
seen the owners there at the end to say a few words.
Could they have been really pissed off and refused to take part in
the last show?
I like Dean too, seems like a nice guy...wish I was doing what he is! I do
prefer Jojo to Robin, though, the latter seems more like a pushy feminist
type. Norm seems okay, never seen him be rude to anyone. Bob needs a
attitude adjustment, true enough.
As for other shows, Ron Hazelton of The House Doctor seems pleasant and
knowledgable, and if Jerry Connell of The Home Pro would be less rigid
and business-like, he'd come across better.
A final point: Dean, Robin, Ron, and Jerry all have volunteered time and
resources with Habitat for Humanity...true community service. Dean seems
to be the MOST involved, especially in the Twin Cities area.
John C. Dechon
> >In article <3416ba36...@news.execpc.com> b...@execpc.com (Keith Bohn) writes:
> >>
> >>Craig,
> >
> >>I think you have hit the nail on the head. All this world needs is
> >>another how to program patterened after the current fluff that exists.
> >
> >>I think we we are all ready for a "non-project" magazine format show
> >>that would be designed to teach technique rather than the same drivel
> >>re-hashed for the upteenth time.
> >
> >>Bohn & Bonn Design
> I thought that's what Bob Vila was doing in his new Home Show <yawn>.
> Showing the viewer stepbystepbystep... how to frame and allthat
> stuff.
> He finally finished his all-red house. I'll bet you need dark glasses
> to live there.
> Carol
Is this show (Bob Vila's new home "he's" building) currently on TV? Have not
seen anything about it on the HGTV, TLC, or even PBS channels...is it called
Home Show, and if so, WHERE is it seen?
Robert Galloway
>>small remodeling jobs. She is delightful, and she no longer plays second
>>fiddle to a man. I guess it reflects the reality of 90's society --
>>marriages, divorces, and women making it on their own.
>
>I've watched the show, and while there is good information on it, she
>appears so uncomfortable that I find it difficult to watch. Perhaps its was
>just a bad day for the show.
I watched JoJo putting together a sauna. Did I tape it for future
reference? Afraid not. I thought it was great, though, that a few (I
could hope more-than-a-few) girls in the country could see an attractive,
inteligent woman concerning herself with something besides makeup or dish
detergent.
rhg
bow...@eisner.decus.org
In article <5v7pb5$3...@rgfn3.epcc.edu>, ah...@rgfn.epcc.edu (John C. Dechon) writes:
>
> I recall Robin talking to Dean during the three-episode "Deck" series
> (about getting dressed up and going out after work)...she
> claimed not to even OWN a pair of high heels...can she spell "divorce?"
>
What's the tie-in between high-heels and divorce?
Bruce
bow...@eisner.decus.org
In article <5v7q4f$3...@rgfn3.epcc.edu>, ah...@rgfn.epcc.edu (John C. Dechon) writes:
>
> What about the 1785 Weatherbee House (not far from Boston) Bob and Norm
> "restored?" It, too was way over budget, and at the end of the series,
> there was only Bob and Norm to discuss the finances...the owners were NOT
> present, and there was no "wrap party." This is the first time I have not
> seen the owners there at the end to say a few words.
>
> Could they have been really pissed off and refused to take part in
> the last show?
IIRC there was a lawsuit over that one. They were only something like $200,000
over budget. It was also, I think, the last one where they tried to rely so
heavily on owners "sweat equity". Yes, folks since then have pitched in, but
not to the extent that it used to be expected.
Bruce
MJ Thompson
>>As for Hometime, the one show of this kind which I never
>>watch, I find it interesting how accepting everyone has been
>>of the PBS quota requiring Dean Johnson to hire a women
>>partner rather than the best able partner. The gender
>>war is over and the female sexists have won!
>Its not PBSs policy, its the whole premise of the show. Dean and his multiple
>female sidekicks are supposed to appear as a married couple on the show, and
>though it does get goofy at times, it serves a reasonable purpose which I
>appreciate.
You have the cart before the horse. Dean has stated that PBS
requires his co-host to be female. In Jojo's farewell show
he also discussed that given his co-host was female (as
mandated by PCBS) he thought he would try the idea of
presenting themselves as a married couple.
]Networks don't cast female workers to appeal to women, or because
]there is an actual female market out there. They do it because this
]is the 90's and they don't want to step on sensitive political toes.
]Women are happier just knowing there is a woman on a show like this,
]even if almost none of them watch it.
Agreed, good point. (Except I would substitute powerful
for sensitive.)
}Ever thought that they might do it on the off chance that women might
}be interested and that they would be idiotic for ignoring a possible
}market. I guess they never check their demographics to find out, like
}you obviously have, that "almost none" of the women watch their show.
}Man, you think that they, being in the television business and
}everything, would have figured that out by now.
Well let's see if you believe your own words. I am often told that
there are a lot of racists whites, so would you feel just as
comfortable with PBS requiring how-to shows to hire whites
because they are just tapping a market?
A point of clarification, PBS's mandate is not one which appeals
to women but one which appeals to female sexists, that is sexists
(male or female) who embrace the immorality of quotas for
women. A woman who was not sexist would prefer to learn from
the person who is the best at the job, not the person who is best
at being a woman. I think that people
should be hired without regard to race or gender even when
it is politically correct to not do so. If this means that
racists and sexists are unhappy (your untapped market) with
the results, I say good!
Peter Lemmond
>>>As for Hometime, the one show of this kind which I never
>>>watch, I find it interesting how accepting everyone has been
>>>of the PBS quota requiring Dean Johnson to hire a women
>>>partner rather than the best able partner. The gender
>>>war is over and the female sexists have won!
...snip...
For all you Angry White Males, who seem to think PBS is dictating the
gender of Hometime cohosts in order to maintain Political Correctness,
or to appeal to female sexists -- forget it. There is no grand
conspiracy against you. If PBS does indeed "dictate" to Dean Johnson
that he present his show as a dramatization of home improvement as seen
by a married couple, it is only to differentiate Hometime from PBS's
most popular show, This Old House. If it was just Dean & some buddy of
his, this would be essentially a mid-west version of Steve and Norm.
-Peter
mtr...@nospam.hotmail.com
MJ Thompson wrote:
>
> >Its not PBSs policy, its the whole premise of the show. Dean and his multiple
> >female sidekicks are supposed to appear as a married couple on the show, and
> >though it does get goofy at times, it serves a reasonable purpose which I
> >appreciate.
>
> You have the cart before the horse. Dean has stated that PBS
> requires his co-host to be female. In Jojo's farewell show
> he also discussed that given his co-host was female (as
> mandated by PCBS) he thought he would try the idea of
> presenting themselves as a married couple.
>
I understand why they'd want one male and one female. But I really
don't understand the advantage to presenting themselves as married. If
they actually _were_ married, why would more people want to watch?
==============================================
Hey, E-mail spambots - send your message to the FCC !!
Chairman Reed Hundt: rhu...@fcc.gov
Commissioner James Quello: jqu...@fcc.gov
Commissioner Susan Ness: sn...@fcc.gov
Commissioner Rachelle Chong: rch...@fcc.gov
==============================================
John C. Dechon
Peter Lemmond (pet...@tone.whoi.edu) wrote:
> ...snip...
> -Peter
Well, maybe Steve and Norm could PRETEND they are a couple if they had
to (if their sponsors required another "married couple" hosted show...how
does This Old Gay House sound?
Considering the pathetic state of affairs in this country with political
correctness, we're going to be seeing something like that sooner or later,
are we not?
John C. Dechon
> Bruce
True, there'd be no divorce, if I found that out about her BEFORE
marriage, but use your imagination, Bruce...think along the lines of
symbolism here.
If high heels are thought of as a symbol of feminity, and a woman does does
not even own a pair, then it follows that she's rejecting same...definitely
not my type...don't like them on the mascualine side, if you please. And if
she in real life does not own a pair, then a guy could not take her out to
anyplace other than the bowling alley...somewhat restrictive I'd say.
Robin always seems to be like the women I'd see up in Colorado, wearing
frumpy clothes and chukka boots...real attractive, I'm sure. I know Robin
actually WORKS during the shows (but a previous post relates that Dean
said that's about the only time they DO work), but at least Jojo has
been seen on Hometime episodes actually looking like she knows what
make-up is, and looking pretty decent as well. Robin seems a bit too
feminist/pushy for me, or she just likes being "comfortable." Well, she
may be comfortable, but she looks like something the cat came home with.
How many guys wear old clothes, say they do it be: they're comfortable,
but the wives get all over them for it?
Anyway, that's what I meant.
Robert Hartman
In article <5v9hv9$d...@rgfn3.epcc.edu>,
John C. Dechon <ah...@rgfn.epcc.edu> wrote:
>
>> >>>As for Hometime, the one show of this kind which I never
>> >>>watch, I find it interesting how accepting everyone has been
>> >>>of the PBS quota requiring Dean Johnson to hire a women
>> >>>partner rather than the best able partner. The gender
>> >>>war is over and the female sexists have won!
>
>
>to (if their sponsors required another "married couple" hosted show...how
>does This Old Gay House sound?
>
>Considering the pathetic state of affairs in this country with political
>correctness, we're going to be seeing something like that sooner or later,
>are we not?
Maybe I'm just too naive, but here's what I don't understand:
Why is it a problem when people try to be inclusive of others who
are different?
What difference does it make if one of the presenters is a woman, or
a gay man, or a whatever?
If the person has enough skill to demonstrate the technique, and can
explain things well enough to be understood, and can present things
different perspective that might help more people to understand or
relate, so much the better.
Also, maybe more women, gays, minorities, and others would take up
woodworking if they saw people like them actually doing it on TV.
But even if that didn't happen, who exactly is being hurt by efforts
to include them?
... the one person who might otherwise have gotten picked if all "good"
jobs were still reserved for people of a certain race, ethnicity, and
gender?
If our only choice is between PC and sour grapes, then yes indeed, the
situation has surely gotten to be pathetic.
-r
--
You don't need to be a soldier to be a good man.
Tom Corey
John C. Dechon wrote:
> Well, maybe Steve and Norm could PRETEND they are a couple if they had
> to (if their sponsors required another "married couple" hosted show...how
> does This Old Gay House sound?
>
> Considering the pathetic state of affairs in this country with political
> correctness, we're going to be seeing something like that sooner or later,
> are we not?
>
> John Dechon
> El Paso, TX
What will they call the book, "Heathers Mommy has 2 Tablesaws"?
--
Tom Corey
to reply remove "nojunk" from address
Tom Corey
Robert Hartman wrote:
> If our only choice is between PC and sour grapes, then yes indeed, the
> situation has surely gotten to be pathetic.
My problem with the PC(politically correct not Porter-Cable) crowd is
that as a white male I'm getting rather tired of being bombarded with
the message that white males are the root of all evil. Just think how
wonderful and grand the world would be if not for these eeeevillll white
men. Yes, I have become an AWM.
Chris Ambrose
I have to agree. I remember one TOH episode where the "renovation" cost
1.5 times that of the original property. Jeese, how many of us can
afford to sink from 300k to 500k in a renovation on top of a mortgage?
Besides that, the show has strayed miles from its original premiss of
retaining the historic nature of the house to replacing the interior of
a 1900's bungalow with stark Manhattan high-rise "Architectural Digest"
sort of stuff. Seems a waste to me. I get really tired of rescessed
halogen lights, "Corian", bleached white walls and contemporary
cabinetry. At least Dean and the wife de'jour play up the fact that
there are problems, compromises and rewards of doing it yourself. As a
matter of fact, I don't remember that latest TOH where the homeowner
actually did more that a little dry wall taping and some painting. Not
much in the way of "sweat equity" there. Yeah, you get to see some cool
work and inovation on TOH, but who gets to use it?
Mark Harper
Robert Hartman
This really isn't pertinent to rec.woodworking, so I'll leave off after this.
In article <34187E...@erols.com>, Tom Corey <nojun...@erols.com> wrote:
>
>My problem with the PC(politically correct not Porter-Cable) crowd is
>that as a white male I'm getting rather tired of being bombarded with
>the message that white males are the root of all evil. Just think how
>wonderful and grand the world would be if not for these eeeevillll white
>men. Yes, I have become an AWM.
I'm very sorry to hear that. It's easy to hate, and it's especially easy
for people who are looking for an excuse to blame someone else to sieze
upon any scapegoat.
So the message that the implicit privileges that our culture has granted
to wealthy white men are at best unfair and at worst an evil gets twisted
into "all those evil white men."
It's hard to say who's worse about twisting it like that, those on the
ditto-me right who want rules in place that they can unthinkingly follow,
or those on the hipper-than-thou left who uncaringly spout that "evil
white men" malarkey so that they can go on feeling superior.
Meanwhile, all our kids are going crazy trying to figure out how to be
good people in a very messy world, while all we do is bicker and point
fingers at one another.
How can we be so stupid?
Yeah, I guess I'm pretty angry too.
bow...@eisner.decus.org
In article <5v9kio$d...@rgfn3.epcc.edu>, ah...@rgfn.epcc.edu (John C. Dechon) writes:
> bow...@eisner.decus.org wrote:
>> In article <5v7pb5$3...@rgfn3.epcc.edu>, ah...@rgfn.epcc.edu (John C. Dechon) writes:
>> >
>> > I recall Robin talking to Dean during the three-episode "Deck" series
>> > (about getting dressed up and going out after work)...she
>> > claimed not to even OWN a pair of high heels...can she spell "divorce?"
>> >
>
>> What's the tie-in between high-heels and divorce?
>
>> Bruce
>
>
> True, there'd be no divorce, if I found that out about her BEFORE
> marriage, but use your imagination, Bruce...think along the lines of
> symbolism here.
>
> If high heels are thought of as a symbol of feminity, and a woman does does
> not even own a pair, then it follows that she's rejecting same...definitely
> not my type...don't like them on the mascualine side, if you please. And if
> she in real life does not own a pair, then a guy could not take her out to
> anyplace other than the bowling alley...somewhat restrictive I'd say.
Ah, now I see it, you're a chauvinist... If a woman doesn't own high-heels,
she's an "ugly useless broad". My wife, one of the most beautiful women I
know, doesn't own a pair of high heels and rarely, if ever, wears makeup. We
routinely go places other that the bowling alley (in fact, we've never been to
a bowling alley). She owns her own business (computer training and support),
she's intelligent, she's outgoing, she's everything most folks I know would
want in a woman, but they can't have her, she's my wife.
Oh well, back to the subject at hand. JoJo's new show. I watch it for ideas,
but I don't think she's all that great.
Bruce
Guy Wheelock
mtr...@nospam.hotmail.com wrote:
>
> MJ Thompson wrote:
> >
>
> > >Its not PBSs policy, its the whole premise of the show. Dean and his multiple
> > >female sidekicks are supposed to appear as a married couple on the show, and
> > >though it does get goofy at times, it serves a reasonable purpose which I
> > >appreciate.
> >
> > You have the cart before the horse. Dean has stated that PBS
> > requires his co-host to be female. In Jojo's farewell show
> > he also discussed that given his co-host was female (as
> > mandated by PCBS) he thought he would try the idea of
> > presenting themselves as a married couple.
> >
>
> I understand why they'd want one male and one female. But I really
> don't understand the advantage to presenting themselves as married. If
> they actually _were_ married, why would more people want to watch?
For all the nice arguments; of course :)
"Dean, honey ... I THOUGHT I asked you to take out the ...."
"ME! - Its YOUR turn to..."
(I remember a couple of really good arguments the wife & I
had when we were rehabbing a rental unit once - whoh!)
John Paquay
In article <5v9kio$d...@rgfn3.epcc.edu>, ah...@rgfn.epcc.edu says...
>
>bow...@eisner.decus.org wrote:
>> In article <5v7pb5$3...@rgfn3.epcc.edu>, ah...@rgfn.epcc.edu (John C. Dechon)
> writes:
>
>> What's the tie-in between high-heels and divorce?
>
>If high heels are thought of as a symbol of feminity, and a woman does does
>not even own a pair, then it follows that she's rejecting same
>John Dechon
Better put the shovel away, John. This hole is getting deep fast.
--
John Paquay
Dept. of Physics, Purdue University
j...@physics.purdue.edu, j...@belex.mdn.com
http://www.physics.purdue.edu/~jep/cshop.html
--------------------------------------------------------
Cissy . Thorpe
On Thu, 11 Sep 1997 bow...@eisner.decus.org wrote:
>
> What's the tie-in between high-heels and divorce?
>
> Bruce
>
>
Most men LIKE to see the woman they are married to in high heels - they
force the back to arch and the breasts to thurst forward. A "I'm ready"
stance that appeals to the animal in all men.
I guess, if a woman didn't own a pair of high heels it would mean that
she either isn't aware of this appeal, or she doesn't care to be put in
an uncomfortable position for her mate.
Cause for divorce...who knows.
Cissy
John C. Dechon
Robert Hartman (har...@informix.com) wrote:
> In article <5v9hv9$d...@rgfn3.epcc.edu>,
> John C. Dechon <ah...@rgfn.epcc.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> >>>As for Hometime, the one show of this kind which I never
> >> >>>watch, I find it interesting how accepting everyone has been
> >> >>>of the PBS quota requiring Dean Johnson to hire a women
> >> >>>partner rather than the best able partner. The gender
> >> >>>war is over and the female sexists have won!
> >
> >
> >to (if their sponsors required another "married couple" hosted show...how
> >does This Old Gay House sound?
> >
> >Considering the pathetic state of affairs in this country with political
> >correctness, we're going to be seeing something like that sooner or later,
> >are we not?
> Maybe I'm just too naive, but here's what I don't understand:
> Why is it a problem when people try to be inclusive of others who
> are different?
> What difference does it make if one of the presenters is a woman, or
> a gay man, or a whatever?
> If the person has enough skill to demonstrate the technique, and can
> explain things well enough to be understood, and can present things
> different perspective that might help more people to understand or
> relate, so much the better.
> Also, maybe more women, gays, minorities, and others would take up
> woodworking if they saw people like them actually doing it on TV.
> But even if that didn't happen, who exactly is being hurt by efforts
> to include them?
> ... the one person who might otherwise have gotten picked if all "good"
> jobs were still reserved for people of a certain race, ethnicity, and
> gender?
> If our only choice is between PC and sour grapes, then yes indeed, the
> situation has surely gotten to be pathetic.
> -r
> --
> You don't need to be a soldier to be a good man.
Robert,
Ordinarily, I'd have PLENTY to say about "What's wrong with gays" on
TV or otherwise, the backlash some males have re: pushy women, TV
sitcoms showing men to be idiots (and poor excuses for fathers) but their
wives portrayed as being so smart/tough...ordering their men about or
intimidating them, and other such outrageous garbage, but this is NOT the
group to do it in, off-topic you know. Nor do I want to get into a lengthy
flame war about the subject.
Quite simply there is LOTS wrong with what you say above, but that's your
opinion, and that's okay. I still have to disagree with you.
Tracy Milkay
Hello Craig -
I happen to be one of those rare female DIYs you are talking about. I
have NEVER cried at HD nor been pissed off at any of the HD workers.
It is my home improvement job and I take on the responsibility to get
educated enough to do the job right. And I DO the job right and
better than any contractor could (at least that is what I am told by
anyone, contractors included, who visit the house and see the results
firsthand). A side comment: I really like the HD folks at the store
in my area - they are helpful, respectful and have never treated me
badly or made me feel like I was crazy to be attempting something just
because I was female. I also treat them with respect and have made a
point, at times, to return to the store and thank personnally the
individual who provided help to me and let them know how things all
worked out. By the look on their faces, I would guess most people
never thank them.
As far as the home improvement shows go, I don't care who is
demonstrating what on DIY shows as long as they do it well. My
biggest gripe with these shows is the way they pretend everything is
so easy and goes off without a hitch AND takes just a few hours or
just a few days to complete (yeah, right - experienced DIY's know that
whatever estimate of how long you *think* something is going to take
should be multiplied by a factor of three to get the actual time
spent...). Just ONCE I'd like to see Dean or Norm screw up a cut or
measure wrong or SOMETHING. I cannot believe they always do it
perfect the first time. If PBS or HGTV ever decide to air outtakes,
THAT is something I would love to see!
And, as a matter of fact, I do happen to watch decorating shows as
well. That end of things is just as important as the building part -
or do you prefer to let the "little woman" handle that part of the job
once you, the "big, strong man" gets through building it? Or better
yet, are you living in a house that has bare drywall, unpainted trim
and no furniture? Funny, when people visit our house, they never
comment on the perfectly mitered corners of the crown molding or the
perfectly plumb wall or the level built-in bookshelves....they only
seem to comment on the beautiful curtains, furniture, accessories,
etc. Go figure?
I'm not trying to get on your case because what you say about there
not being many female DIY's is probably true. Speaking from
experience, I would say it is a result of men telling woman they can't
do it. Good thing my momma raised me to be stubborn and when I hear
the words, "you can't" I respond with, "well, just watch me!" You
should be careful when you begin stereotyping.
(Before anyone tries to stereotype me, I will let you know I have an
engineering degree, been happily married for 5+ years, hold a
high-level position in a medical software company, own numerous pairs
of high-heeled shoes, wear make-up and have no problem going from
tearing out a wall to tearing up the dance floor!)
Tracy, owner and operator of all her own power tools
Long live HGTV!
"Craig" <max...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> And by the way, the amount of woman who are DIYer's is lower than you might
>believe. I worked at Home Depot for 2 years and out of probably 20 queries
>a day, 52 weeks each year x 2= 10400 queries about location of products,
>procedures, and so forth, maybe 50 (1/2 of 1%) came from women who were
>attempting to do
>it themselves. Out of 50 women, only about 3 of them said they had prior
>experience and confidence. I distinctly remember at least 10 of the 50 that
>came back either in tears or pissed off that someone didn't tell them to
>read the can or some nonsense to divert the blame.
> Networks don't cast female workers to appeal to women, or because there
>is an actual female market out there. They do it because this is the 90's
>and they don't want to step on sensitive political toes. Women are happier
>just knowing there is a woman on a show like this, even if almost none of
>them watch it.
>Now if you're talking about an interior decorating show-that's a different
>story.
>Having access to information doesn't make it knowledge. Teenage mothers and
>overweight americans numbers increasing.
>>
>>
>>Get real. The "best able" partner on this type of show is the one who can
>>appeal to the most additional viewers. Do you think that they considered
>>scouring the earth for the most able/versatile tradesman? Hell no. They'd
>>probably find an old, fat, ugly, balding, semi-literate guy with only half
>>his teeth and a terminal smoker's cough. Such an "able" person would
>>_not_ appeal to the target audience--women who DIY (or might, if properly
>>inspired).
>>
>>There is a growing population of do-it-themselves women out there, and PBS
>>apparently wanted a show that would appeal to them as well. Thus a co-host
>>that they can identify with.
>>
David Kaplan
Having worked in the building trade for over thirty years, we had many
females that could more than hold their own. It bothers me that the best
female that these DIY shows can find, can't hold a hammer without choking
it up to the head. Are we supposed to believe that they are really building
that deck or wall. Maybe some day the show will admit that they use a crew
of carpenter when the camera isn't rolling.
Alan_Browning
>If high heels are thought of as a symbol of feminity, and a woman does does
>not even own a pair, then it follows that she's rejecting same...definitely
>not my type...don't like them on the mascualine side, if you please. And if
>she in real life does not own a pair, then a guy could not take her out to
>anyplace other than the bowling alley...somewhat restrictive I'd say.
ROFL. I'm trying to understand this logic. So, if a guy puts on high heels for
you you'll find him more feminine than Robin? I don't think so. It's the fact
that some women are willing to be whatever *you* want them to be (rather than
what they prefer to be) that you find attractive. Most women that I've talked
to prefer not to wear high heels because they are uncomfortable - not because
they want to project a masculine image.
AB
Trevor Galvin
As a red blooded male I'd have do disagree there. My first wife walked
awkward in them and her logic was she wanted to appear taller. She was
wearing them for her benefit not mine. Now my second wife never owned
a dress and was irritated I insist she buy one to get married in. She
had a great figure and nothing to hide. So I only ever saw her once in
a dress. So put me down for liking to see women in dresses, if they
have great legs then the shorter the dress the better.
Incidentally high heels has nothing to do with divorce. Put it down to
women are from another planet where common sense logic was replaced
with sporadic whims and comminication is an act of mind reading and
not listening to spoken words.
Trevor (just a been there, done that, kinda guy)
John C. Dechon
cc.edu> <5vc4l7$m...@cocoa.brown.edu>
Organization: The Rio Grande Free-Net, El Paso Community College, El Paso, TX
Distribution:
> AB
I could go on about this topic, but since it is OFF topic, and not
relevant to this newsgroup, these few words will have to answer the above
two comments...
Whatever you say, guys, that's your opinion and that's fine, but I see
things entirely differently.
As for how "great" your wife looks, that also is your opinion, and others,
upon seeing her, may not agree with you. But YOU think she looks oaky,
that's all that's important. But you may even be out of touch with yourself
re: your own image. Maybe you identify with one of those sorry sitcoms
which portray men as submissive idiots who is not respected even by his own
kids...poor excuses for a father, husband, and man.
And as for guys wearing high-heels, I leave that to the (you?)
politically-correct liberals, or the queen who hosts that sorry
decorating show "Interior Motives." You see, some of us don't accept that
PC agenda one bit.
Brad W.
In article <3436010b...@news.mindspring.com>,
unid...@mindspring.com wrote:
>On 10 Sep 1997 19:13:26 GMT, pwc...@norfolk.infi.net (Brad W.) wrote:
>
>Snip
>
>> I wish I had the money to keep one household open while they renovated
>>my second home (like on TOH), but I don't. I can't go live in a hotel while
>>the whole interior is ripped apart and replaced. The premise of Hometime is
>>that these people (Dean and whoever) actually live in the place and are
going
>>to have to deal with the same problems the rest of us do, i.e. the fact that
>>you are going to have to do the bathroom renovation in stages that allow you
>>access to the plumbing until the last possible minute. Example of this:
They
>>were doing the above bathroom renovation and had this really corny
>>conversation about "..we have that dinner party at the Wilson's this
weekend,
>>and next weekend I have to work, so we'll leave the floor and plumbing in
>>until we finish the ceiling and fixtures." In my opinion, Hometime
>>accomplishes what it sets out to accomplish...giving a more realistic view
of
>>what it takes to renovate your own house, build a deck, etc. For that you
>>need the man/woman team.
>
>
>It also does a good job of presenting modern american society with an
>unmarried couple cohabiting and living together - I suppose the next
>series will have Dean and Bob as teh co-hosts remodeling the home they
>share and discussing the day to day events they face in their
>relationship! (;->
>
>
Though they are not married to each other in real life, the premise of the
show is that they ARE married. I must not have made that clear.
Brad W.
In article <3417C6...@netacc.com>, MJ Thompson <m...@netacc.com> wrote:
>
>
>}Ever thought that they might do it on the off chance that women might
>}be interested and that they would be idiotic for ignoring a possible
>}market. I guess they never check their demographics to find out, like
>}you obviously have, that "almost none" of the women watch their show.
>}Man, you think that they, being in the television business and
>}everything, would have figured that out by now.
>
>Well let's see if you believe your own words. I am often told that
>there are a lot of racists whites, so would you feel just as
>comfortable with PBS requiring how-to shows to hire whites
>because they are just tapping a market?
I'm sorry...I see your point, but let me say this...Dean is a man, Robin is a
woman. If there are any racist whites at work here, I don't see them on
Hometime. I refer to this as "expanding the topic," and frankly it only works
well for one thing...keeping annoying talk-show hosts in business when they
should have been of the air years ago. So PBS wants a man/woman team on the
show...so what? There are plenty of how-to shows on TV that only have men,
such as the Renovation Guide, or the New Yankee Workshop, or This Old House.
Watch them.
>A point of clarification, PBS's mandate is not one which appeals
>to women but one which appeals to female sexists, that is sexists
>(male or female) who embrace the immorality of quotas for
>women. A woman who was not sexist would prefer to learn from
>the person who is the best at the job, not the person who is best
>at being a woman. I think that people
>should be hired without regard to race or gender even when
>it is politically correct to not do so. If this means that
>racists and sexists are unhappy (your untapped market) with
See the dangers of expanding an argument? Now you've got racists as
MY untapped market. That's not fair to me, but I guess that's what you
feel you have to do to get your point across. Secondly... Quota,
schmota....you're talking about TV, remember? They don't have to subscribe to
the same hiring practices as other industries. Its not a quota, its a
formula, and its meant to successfully and profitably fill air time. That is
their business. Its all about popularity, and now PC is popular. If it ever
dies out, maybe Robin will get thrown of the show and replaced with a fat ugly
guy. Then everybody will be happy.
Tom Corey
-r,
You seem a very reasonable man and I'm sure we could talk about this
subject and not be angry. It's the hipper-than-thou bunch that are the
problem. Most(not all) of the media, news and entertainment, are of this
group. Our children are bombarded by everything from the TV to the
teachers union that their culture and their forefathers are somehow
defective and worthy of no more than scorn. Especially if those
forefathers were white. As for the "ditto-me right", I'm so far right
everything looks left to me. Its not about blindly following rules. Its
about personal responsibility and being curteous and respectful to those
around us. Society does need rules. And now lets saw some wood.
Elaine Gallegos
I don't like it either. I never did like Liebler much, although she did
better with a man partner. She looked a lot better in coveralls jeans and
checker wool shirts and a toolbelt than the
junk she wears for her HGTV show. The show is also a major bore. Liebler
is into construction, and is apparently ok at that. She is more of an
interior defacator than interior decorator.
Rudy Bob in Dallas <rpri...@isource.net> wrote:
: I think the show is a dud
: and who dresses her?
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Elaine Gallegos
sat...@primenet.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Irvin
> "Cissy . Thorpe" <cth...@lonestar.jpl.utsa.edu> wrote:
> >Most men LIKE to see the woman they are married to in high heels - they
> >force the back to arch and the breasts to thurst forward. A "I'm ready"
> >stance that appeals to the animal in all men.
> >
> >I guess, if a woman didn't own a pair of high heels it would mean that
> >she either isn't aware of this appeal, or she doesn't care to be put in
> >an uncomfortable position for her mate.
> >
> >Cause for divorce...who knows.
I must say...this is an intriguing thread considering the seemingly
unrelated newsgroups it's in...
Anyway, yes, I think a lot of men would like to see their SOs in
high heels once in a while, but anyone who would start a serious
argument, much less divorce, over the issue seems pretty shallow
to me...
--
Tim Irvin, zig...@netgate.net ::::: http://www.netgate.net/~ziggy29
"Trouble no one about their religion; respect others in their view, and
demand that they respect yours...Abuse no one and nothing, for abuse
turns the wise ones to fools and robs the spirit of its vision."
-- Tecumseh (1768-1813), Shawnee chief and statesman
Jim Konert
Guy Wheelock wrote:
>
> mtr...@nospam.hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > MJ Thompson wrote:
> > >
> >
> > > >Its not PBSs policy, its the whole premise of the show. Dean and his multiple
> > > >female sidekicks are supposed to appear as a married couple on the show, and
> > > >though it does get goofy at times, it serves a reasonable purpose which I
> > > >appreciate.
> >
> > I understand why they'd want one male and one female. But I really
> > don't understand the advantage to presenting themselves as married. If
> > they actually _were_ married, why would more people want to watch?
>
> For all the nice arguments; of course :)
>
> "Dean, honey ... I THOUGHT I asked you to take out the ...."
> "ME! - Its YOUR turn to..."
>
> (I remember a couple of really good arguments the wife & I
> had when we were rehabbing a rental unit once - whoh!)
help with some of the construction on a house they were rehabbing?
Dean and the helper spent a couple of hours trying to
figure out how to miter lap siding on an outside corner. This
looked closer to the real life arguments. In fact I beleive they have
had several of these make believ alteractions.
I was ROFLMAO when during this same series, Dean and Robin went to spend
a weekend at the log cabin. My first thought was 'I can't believe Dean
is taking that hussy to the cabin that he and JoJo built" 8-}
--
Jim Konert
(see below)/ Earthgrains
Following Pat's lead, I am now:
Electronic Data Systems, Technical and Engineering Solution Centers -
Americas, Central Region, Mid-West Solution Centers, St. Louis Solution
Center, and also an SME analyst trainee. I guess that makes my org code
as follows:
EDS-TESC-A-CR-MWSC-SLSC-SME-A(t).
Rena Whiteson
Robert Hartman wrote:
[...]
> Maybe I'm just too naive, but here's what I don't understand:
>
> Why is it a problem when people try to be inclusive of others who
> are different?
>
> What difference does it make if one of the presenters is a woman, or
> a gay man, or a whatever?
None. It should make no difference at all. The controversy is not
about the fact that one of the hosts is a woman but about the fact that
it is *obligatory* that she be a woman. Furthermore, it seems that PBS
did not impose this requirement out of any consideration of the show
itself (for instance having the show hosted by a married couple has a
certain appeal), but simply for the sake of having a woman co-host.
> Also, maybe more women, gays, minorities, and others would take up
> woodworking if they saw people like them actually doing it on TV.
> But even if that didn't happen, who exactly is being hurt by efforts
> to include them?
This is indeed naive. This is not a block party to which you can invite
everyone. There are only a very few positions for TV home improvement
show hosts. Each time you "include" someone you must exclude thousands
of other wannabes.
Having said this, let's remember that this is show biz - an industry
which is notorious for being shallow, unfair and partial. Good looking
men and women are routinely selected over better qualified people. (For
instance, it is common place to see an actor narrating a science show).
Actors often get parts and TV hosts get shows because of who they know
or who they sleep with. Until modern times, men played women's roles
and white men played Black and American Indian roles. In this context
it seems a bit pointless to get exercised over the choice of a co-host
for a home improvement show.
Adam Whiteson
Michael John Hide
j...@physics.purdue.edu (John Paquay) wrote:
>
>In article <5v9kio$d...@rgfn3.epcc.edu>, ah...@rgfn.epcc.edu says...
>>
>>bow...@eisner.decus.org wrote:
>>> In article <5v7pb5$3...@rgfn3.epcc.edu>, ah...@rgfn.epcc.edu (John C. Dechon)
>> writes:
>>
>>> What's the tie-in between high-heels and divorce?
>>
>>If high heels are thought of as a symbol of feminity, and a woman does does
>>not even own a pair, then it follows that she's rejecting same
>>John Dechon
>
>Better put the shovel away, John. This hole is getting deep fast.
>
>--
>John Paquay
>Dept. of Physics, Purdue University
>j...@physics.purdue.edu, j...@belex.mdn.com
>http://www.physics.purdue.edu/~jep/cshop.html
>--------------------------------------------------------
>
Perhaps it`s endemic ; for those who are not part of "the shallow
minded masses".that is .....mjh
John C. Dechon
cc.edu> <5vbgct$i...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>:
Distribution:
John Paquay (j...@physics.purdue.edu) wrote:
> In article <5v9kio$d...@rgfn3.epcc.edu>, ah...@rgfn.epcc.edu says...
> >
> >bow...@eisner.decus.org wrote:
> >> In article <5v7pb5$3...@rgfn3.epcc.edu>, ah...@rgfn.epcc.edu (John C. Dechon)
> > writes:
> >
> >> What's the tie-in between high-heels and divorce?
> >
> >If high heels are thought of as a symbol of feminity, and a woman does does
> >not even own a pair, then it follows that she's rejecting same
> >John Dechon
> Better put the shovel away, John. This hole is getting deep fast.
> --
> John Paquay
> Dept. of Physics, Purdue University
> j...@physics.purdue.edu, j...@belex.mdn.com
> http://www.physics.purdue.edu/~jep/cshop.html
> --------------------------------------------------------
I'm not worried about holes. Besides, I don't need any shovel...I have
a Bobcat parked outside.
Opinions may need explaining, but never defending. In my opinion, Robin
lacks femininity in the way she looks on the Hometime show and because of
some things she says. No one is going to change my "interpretation" of
her "character."
I don't hate her or anything, but I must admit that I watch Hometime in
spite of her as co-host.
John Dechon
John C. Dechon
John C. Dechon (ah...@rgfn.epcc.edu) wrote:
> cc.edu> <5vc4l7$m...@cocoa.brown.edu>
> Organization: The Rio Grande Free-Net, El Paso Community College, El Paso, TX
> Distribution:
> Alan_Browning (Alan_B...@brown.edu) wrote:
> > In article <5v9kio$d...@rgfn3.epcc.edu>, ah...@rgfn.epcc.edu says...
> > >If high heels are thought of as a symbol of feminity, and a woman does does
> > >not even own a pair, then it follows that she's rejecting same...definitely
> > >not my type...don't like them on the mascualine side, if you please. And if
> > >she in real life does not own a pair, then a guy could not take her out to
> > >anyplace other than the bowling alley...somewhat restrictive I'd say.
> > ROFL. I'm trying to understand this logic. So, if a guy puts on high heels for
> > you you'll find him more feminine than Robin? I don't think so. It's the fact
> > that some women are willing to be whatever *you* want them to be (rather than
> > what they prefer to be) that you find attractive. Most women that I've talked
> > to prefer not to wear high heels because they are uncomfortable - not because
> > they want to project a masculine image.
> > AB
> I could go on about this topic, but since it is OFF topic, and not
> relevant to this newsgroup, these few words will have to answer the above
> two comments...
> Whatever you say, guys, that's your opinion and that's fine, but I see
> things entirely differently.
> As for how "great" your wife looks, that also is your opinion, and others,
> upon seeing her, may not agree with you. But YOU think she looks okay,
> that's all that's important. But you may even be out of touch with yourself
> re: your own image. Maybe you identify with one of those sorry sitcoms
> which portray men as submissive idiots who are not respected even by their
> own kids...poor excuses for a father, husband, and man.
> And as for guys wearing high-heels, I leave that to the
> politically-correct liberals (you guys?), the queen who hosts that
> sorry interior decorating show "Interior Motives," or The Ru-Paul Show
> fans.
John C. Dechon
I don't like Room for Change either, but then, I don't care for interior
decorating shows anyway...prefer the construction-type shows such as
Hometime (Dean Johnson and Robin Hartl), The Home Pro (Jerry Connel), The
House Doctor (Ron Hazelton), and the various "Norm and Bob" and "Norm and
Steve" shows...but most of what's on TV, at least the daily shows, are
all reruns; some have been shown about 50 times now. Your New House is
sometimes bearable, but the old guy "Super Handyman" is a joke...he
should be ashamed to wear that emblazoned on his shop apron. There's
another one called Dream Builders (?), but that's a bit dry most times,
as though they just state facts/opinions in a monotone...kind of boring.
It's not so much the format, but the host and his guests that seem to
lack any pizzaz, for lack of a better word.
I sent an e-mail message to HGTV which puts out Room for Change...asked
them to tell Jojo that since she was a pioneer as a woman co-host on
Hometime, and seemed to be the best co-host thus far (in my opinion), she
should go back to that format. There are LOTS of interior decorating
shows...she should do the practical stuff and forget about
interior decorating--the fluff. That can be left to people like the gayboy
hosting Interior Motives (where did they get that fool anyway).
Unfortuntely, HGTV does not allow one to e-mail the show's producers or
host directly...they have the main site (hgtv.com) and you can leave a
message, which they say they will forward, but frankly, they probably did
not do so. I would prefer a way to e-mail the producers and/or hosts of a
given show. Sounds like a good idea to me (and a common-sense one) but
that's not how HGTV is set up apparently. Pretty primitive/silly I'd say,
either by accident or design I don't know.
Anyway, Jojo has that show House Savvy, but I've only seen it a couple of
times...don't think it's on much. My impression was that she seemed a bit
"incomplete" doing the hosting herself...another reason for her to look for
another person and make a "team"...maybe another woman who knows
consctuction? A two-woman hosted show about construction would be a first!
Doug Green
Jo Ann is an aspiring model/actress and (like most of us) takes whatever
job (show) is offered.
John C. Dechon
.62.00...@NOTvetmed.auburn.edu> <341562...@netacc.com>
<no_spam-0909...@128.181.96.144>
<5v545c$2...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> <5vbvjr$9...@news.idx.com> <01bcbfbf$7048a8c0$8bc2...@davkap.erols.com>:
Distribution:
David Kaplan (dav...@erols.com) wrote:
Dean Johnson HAS admitted that numerous times. Also, look at the credits
for his shows...there are usually a few names under "construction" these
are some of the people who do most of the work.
Anyway, Hometime DOES screw up, and the hosts often admit it when they do.
Plus, their Web site carried about a dozen or more Quicktime movies
("bloopers") of either jokes played on each other or screwups. In short,
I don't think Hometime is trying to put anything over on anyone, even the
"married couple" fiction is explained on their Web site.
Carol D'Agostino
In article <5v7qib$3...@rgfn3.epcc.edu>,>Carol D'Agostino (caro...@liii.com) wrote:
>
>> I thought that's what Bob Vila was doing in his new Home Show <yawn>.
>> Showing the viewer stepbystepbystep... how to frame and allthat
>> stuff.
>
>> He finally finished his all-red house. I'll bet you need dark glasses
>> to live there.
>
>> Carol
>
>Is this show (Bob Vila's new home "he's" building) currently on TV? Have not
>seen anything about it on the HGTV, TLC, or even PBS channels...is it called
>Home Show, and if so, WHERE is it seen?
>
>John Dechon
>El Paso, TX
>
Yes, John, it's been on TV for a while. I see it Sunday mornings
on Channel 2 at 8 am. Don't recall exactly what it's called but
I think it has Home in the title, as Vila always says "Good to see
you back home again."
I'll pay more attention tomorrow morning and post it.
Carol
John Sobczak
John Bercik wrote:
> The problem with all these shows is they don't make mistakes. When I
> do a
> project, I'm bleeding, shearing off nuts, cutting wood the wrong
> length and
> just generally breaking things. They need to show how to get out of
> these
> jams.
>
> They just say "OK, check the deck for square by measuring diagonally
> from
> one corner to the other and making sure both are the same" Ok now on
> to
> the next task. Well, mine will most likely not be the same and they
> don't
> tell you how to fix it. I screw up everything. I told my wife to put
> "He
> didn't have the right tools" on my grave. hehehe
Kinda like Norm who "put togther this little jig to help with....." It
would take me at least the weekend (& 5 trips to the hardware store) to
create the jig. (I really thought I was alone with everything that could
go wrong.....).
Here's to improvising (& sweating, bleading, swearing, crying......)
C. Brunner
>>In article <341562...@netacc.com>, m...@netacc.com wrote:
>>> As for Hometime, the one show of this kind which I never
>>> watch, I find it interesting how accepting everyone has been
>>> of the PBS quota requiring Dean Johnson to hire a women
>>> partner rather than the best able partner. The gender
>>> war is over and the female sexists have won!
Newsbreak: SOME of the viewers of "Hometime" are female. SOME women actually
want to learn how to do home repairs, and want to understand what the
carpenters and plumbing contractors are doing--even if they won't be doing the
work themselves. And, for some strange reason that probably relates to
psychology rather than political science, SOME of those female viewers like
watching a woman do the carpentry and plumbing, rather than watching yet
another guy do it. We KNOW the guys can do it (just listen to our reader from
Texas), but many of us have trouble--because of our stereotypical
up-bringing--imagining ourselves being capable of such feats as nailing
joists, tiling bathrooms, and sweating pipes. Thanks to some progressive TV
producers, we've gained a little confidence in those areas. If watching a
woman in jeans and a flannel shirt swinging a hammer makes you uncomfortable,
then push the button on the remote and watch something else.
C. (Cindy) Brunner
John R. Hungerford
You go girl......
Matt Verrochi
On 12 Sep 1997 20:22:01 -0700, Elaine Gallegos <sat...@primenet.com> wrote:
Every time I see "Room For Change", I think she should have left it alone and
gone to lunch or something. She combines the most hideous and gawd awful
prints with stripes and other patters, enough to make you retch. My wife and I
sit around in horror as she transforms bland into positivley ugly!
Matt
Verrochi_AT_tiac_DOT_net
RC Cars, Parts and Equipment for sale at:
http://www.tiac.net/users/verrochi/RCSALE.htm
=====================================================
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Chairman Reed Hundt: rhu...@fcc.gov
Commissioner James Quello: jqu...@fcc.gov
Commissioner Susan Ness: sn...@fcc.gov
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=====================================================
Soon to come here: the address of every spammer who ever hit my name. Circular spamming.
C. Brunner
In article <341405EC...@central.cis.upenn.edu> "Eric A. Mercer" <eme...@central.cis.upenn.edu> writes:
>John Bercik wrote:
>> The problem with all these shows is they don't make mistakes. When I do a
>> project, I'm bleeding, shearing off nuts, cutting wood the wrong length and
>> just generally breaking things. They need to show how to get out of these
>> jams.
>Not true as far as Hometime is concerned. When Joanne left, they
>compiled a blooper show (things falling apart, light switches exploding,
>that sort of thing), so they don't really hide their mistakes. In
>addition, they do work their mistakes into the show...[snip]
I do wish "Hometime" would show their mistakes more often (e.g.,
correction when diagonal measurements aren't square). "House Doctor", for
instance, shows unexpected problems or hidden structural glitches 'most every
episode. My folks live in the Twin Cities area and they said Dean Johnson and
(whomever it was at the time) were interviewed by a local radio (or TV?)
station about Hometime. The hosts said it takes MONTHS to film a single
series--partly because it just takes that long to build or remodel a home, and
partly because it takes so many "takes" before the filming captures a
procedure just right (e.g., "buttering" tile, or setting a toilet, or sweating
copper pipes). I remember a short series involving construction of an office
building. Dean and whomever "did" the work as usual...until the last episode.
That episode was spent showing how LITTLE work they actually do on the set,
and how much credit they owe to the REAL construction workers. They
demonstrated how they manage to be in front of the camera for just the right
scenes so that the viewer thinks THEY did the job. It was all pretty funny
and quite honest.
C. Brunner
Joe Yule
Cindy's point is well made... but the real point of the whole issue is
being overlooked. Not that Dean doesn't have the "best able partner"
but
the fact that even Dean himself lacks quite a bit in the "abilities
department." Take a look at some of the Hometime outtakes. He rarely
can
hammer a nail in straight. He's there for entertainment (don't get me
wrong,
I enjoy the show). The team of professional contractors off stage do
all the
work, he gets the camera time with his "host du jour." That's just
television
guys... errrr, I mean folks! Some of you sound like you think news
anchors
are the most qualified people to report the news. They are figure heads
that
get ratings... just like Dean and <recent cohost name inserted here>.
Enjoy,
Joe Y.
Plano, TX
Sue Anderson
I know what you mean. It seems to me that almost every room looks better
before than it does after. I suppose it's all a matter of personal
taste, but it's all way too overdone for me.
Matt Verrochi
On Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:25:59 -0500, "Cissy . Thorpe"
>Most men LIKE to see the woman they are married to in high heels - they
>force the back to arch and the breasts to thurst forward. A "I'm ready"
>stance that appeals to the animal in all men.
Nice generalized blanket statement you made there about men. I won't even get
into that one.
>
>I guess, if a woman didn't own a pair of high heels it would mean that
>she either isn't aware of this appeal, or she doesn't care to be put in
>an uncomfortable position for her mate.
How 'bout:
Her mode of dress doesn't require them,
she finds them uncomfortable,
she prefers flats
or some other valid non-sexual, dominance based piece of reality.
Bubba
> If watching a
> woman in jeans and a flannel shirt swinging a hammer makes you uncomfortable,
> then push the button on the remote and watch something else.
> C. (Cindy) Brunner
As a matter of fact, some of us find it ALMOST as "arousing" as whips
and chains.
Karen Carver
Leave it up to someone named Bubba (chuckle, chuckle).
Mark Slone
John C. Dechon wrote:
> Jojo's just the hostess of the show, the various decorators are the ones who
> have the (alleged) poor taste. Jojo has asked several decorators about
> something they are going to do, as if she did not think it was a good idea,
> and still appeared skeptical even after hearing their answers. My
> impression is that the DECORATORS are left to come up with the plan to meet
> the homeowner's wishes...after all, they are supposed to be professionals,
> so blame them, not Jojo...we don't know exactly how much control over
> content all these DYI show hosts really have.
>
> Besides, isn't decorating very subjective? Some like a job, some do not.
> Everyone has an opinion. Apparently, the show's producers and fans
> like it well enough (I don't, but for different reasons).
I think the professional decorators have been around so long that
they're bored with the look that I'm most comfortable with. I also liked
most of the "befores" better than the "afters."
I assume the owners must've been bored with the old, otherwise they
wouldn't have asked for a change. Maybe they should do a second season
where they re-visit the homes, to see how many homeowners actually kept
the new design!
-Mark Slone sl...@hiwaay.net
John C. Dechon
Sue Anderson (bcc...@sprynet.com) wrote:
> I know what you mean. It seems to me that almost every room looks better
> before than it does after. I suppose it's all a matter of personal
> taste, but it's all way too overdone for me.
> Matt Verrochi wrote:
> >
> > On 12 Sep 1997 20:22:01 -0700, Elaine Gallegos <sat...@primenet.com> wrote:
> >
> > Every time I see "Room For Change", I think she should have left it alone and
> > gone to lunch or something. She combines the most hideous and gawd awful
> > prints with stripes and other patters, enough to make you retch. My wife and I
> > sit around in horror as she transforms bland into positivley ugly!
> >
Jojo's just the hostess of the show, the various decorators are the ones who
have the (alleged) poor taste. Jojo has asked several decorators about
something they are going to do, as if she did not think it was a good idea,
and still appeared skeptical even after hearing their answers. My
impression is that the DECORATORS are left to come up with the plan to meet
the homeowner's wishes...after all, they are supposed to be professionals,
so blame them, not Jojo...we don't know exactly how much control over
content all these DYI show hosts really have.
Besides, isn't decorating very subjective? Some like a job, some do not.
Everyone has an opinion. Apparently, the show's producers and fans
like it well enough (I don't, but for different reasons).
John Dechon
El Paso, TX
Tim Moore
>> As a matter of fact, some of us find it ALMOST as "arousing" as whips
and chains. <<
Sorry, I don't find whips and chains at all arousing. I don't mind
watching women in jeans (or out of them) with hammers but its not
arousing to me either -- conservative I guess.
--
- Tim Moore, tmo...@erols.com @ 09/15/97, 21:10
Transmitting to you "Live" from Fredericksburg, VA
tmo...@erols.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/TMoore8/
Warren Block
Some of us like women who are technical. At least the new pseudo-wife or
partner or whatever she's supposed to be can pound a nail without making
me cringe. In fact, she's better at it than Dean.
--
-Warren R. Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA
John C. Dechon
2122240.5...@lonestar.jpl.utsa.edu>
<342c835d...@news.tiac.net>:
Organization: The Rio Grande Free-Net, El Paso Community College, El Paso, TX
Distribution:
> How 'bout:
> Verrochi_AT_tiac_DOT_net
Matt,
Sounds like you got into this thread a bit late...you seem to have no
idea what this topic was all about.
John D.
Tim Moore
>> The team of professional contractors off stage do
all the
work, he gets the camera time with his "host du jour." That's just
television
guys... errrr, I mean folks! Some of you sound like you think news
anchors
are the most qualified people to report the news. They are figure heads
that
get ratings... just like Dean and <recent cohost name inserted here>. <<
Oh, you've broken the code and told the world...... you had better buy
your next home prebuilt as you could be black balled by the tv
carpenters union. Say it ain't so about Norm Abrams though........
Keith Bohn
In the case of "House Doctor" it was the IRS that prompted the
decision to show out takes. It seems that at the end of each episode
the piles of unusable tape dwarfed the usable. They tried writing it
off but the FED red flagged it and forced them to show it before they
allowed the deduction.
Keith Bohn
Bohn & Bonn Design
>I do wish "Hometime" would show their mistakes more often (e.g.,
>correction when diagonal measurements aren't square). "House Doctor", for
>instance, shows unexpected problems or hidden structural glitches 'most every
>episode. Snip
>C. Brunner
John Howson
>
> >Not true as far as Hometime is concerned. When Joanne left, they
> >compiled a blooper show (things falling apart, light switches exploding,
> >that sort of thing), so they don't really hide their mistakes. In
> >addition, they do work their mistakes into the show...[snip]
Dean and whomever "did" the work as usual...until the last episode.
> That episode was spent showing how LITTLE work they actually do on the set,
> and how much credit they owe to the REAL construction workers. They
> demonstrated how they manage to be in front of the camera for just the right
> scenes so that the viewer thinks THEY did the job. It was all pretty funny
> and quite honest.
> C. Brunner
Are you talking about the episode where they built a x-thousand square
foot warehouse with office space? They had Dean operating a crane
lowering prefab reinforced concrete exterior walls into place and Joanne
placing them into position. Dean and Joanne were the only people you
ever saw on the screen. It was hysterical. In the last episode all the
guys who really did the work "accidentally" walked through the shot and
Dean and JoJo had to 'fess up that they had help.
If I recall correctly, the original air date of that final episode wa
somewhere around April 1st.
I miss JoJo.
--
_______________________________________
John Howson, N3UMR
Phoenixville, PA
Home: mailto:jho...@voicenet.com
http://www.voicenet.com/~jhowson
---Standard Disclaimers Apply.---