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Car Free Lifestyle

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MHellka1

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Feb 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/5/00
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Anyone know a place in Florida (or elsewhere) where one can conveniently
live without a car? Convenient walking/biking distance to grocery, library,
medical, etc. would be major factors.

Thanks

Soul Surgeon

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Feb 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/5/00
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Does anybody know of anywhere where you can do this and not be
considered a freak?


suzn

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Feb 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/5/00
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"MHellka1" <MHel...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:VPXm4.8225$KJ5.1...@typhoon1.tampabay.rr.com...


My daughter has a few friends who find it very convenient not to have a
car...they just bum rides off every one else.....

weidwall

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Feb 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/5/00
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New York City. Lots of people don't have cars there.

College towns are another. I lived in Ann Arbor and Chapel Hill and
never owned a car. Didn't bum rides, either.

Ruth Ann

*Mary*

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Feb 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/5/00
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Charles Quinn <cmq...@primenet.com> wrote in message
news:87hunh$c9v$3...@nnrp03.primenet.com...
> x-no-archive: yes
> Routine trips
> to work and to the market are inefficient via car. > Charles

OK Charles, you try carrying 5 or 6 full bags of groceries on the bus and
then tell me that a car is enifficent for going to the market. The ONE
thing we want a car for is so that we can go to the grocery store and not
have to worry about carrying a ton of groceries home. Of course we live in a
pretty small town and the bus system is truly horrid here. One hour service
on the weekdays, 2 hours service on Saturdays and NO service on Sundays. We
can't wait to get a car!

Mary

JanetB

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Feb 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/5/00
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SoulS...@webtv.net (Soul Surgeon) wrote:
>Does anybody know of anywhere where you can do this and not be
>considered a freak?

I live in the San Francisco Bay Area and went without a car for
years quite happily. I know lots of others who do the same.
Even now that I have a car (1981 Isuzu, runs great) I hardly
have to use it. In fact, trying to find parking in many parts
of San Francisco and Berkeley is such torture that one would
have to be demented (or seriously masochistic) to even try to
drive there.

I also know plenty of people in Chicago (I'm originally from
Illinois) who don't have cars.

Janet

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!


melvalena

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Feb 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/5/00
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Austin, TX over by UTexas.


SoulS...@webtv.net (Soul Surgeon) wrote:

>Does anybody know of anywhere where you can do this and not be
>considered a freak?
>

*********************************************
Competition brings out the best in products and
the worst in people.--David Sarnoff

Don't be reckless with other people's hearts.
Don't put up with people who are reckless with yours
******************************************************

Joel M. Eichen

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Feb 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/5/00
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cmq...@primenet.com (Charles Quinn) wrote:

>x-no-archive: yes

>(Soul Surgeon) wrote:
>>Does anybody know of anywhere where you can do this and not be
>>considered a freak?

>Portland, OR
>NYC
>Washington D.C
>Toronto, CA
>Most European metropolitan areas.

Huskaloosa, MS.

Then again, there is no where to go but the gas station across the
street.


>Our country is backward in that we don't have a transit system that is
>integrated. We are stuck thinking there is only one option for any type of
>transportation.

>Business has done many things to cut their cost of delivering their products
>to market. They have one last great hurdle in reducing their costs and the
>time to bring things to market. They need clear roads. Our only hope is for
>them to see the gross inefficiency in our transportation systems and press
>their government (they pay for it, so we may as well call it theirs) to get
>those people off of the roads so they can reduct their costs.

>I heard a while back that NYC is considering ripping up some streets and
>putting in light rail. There would be increased park space, better stormwater
>absoprtion, less pollution, and maybe people would get to know their
>neighbors, thus, fostering a sense of community.

>Don't get me wrong a car is wonderful in the right circumstance. Routine trips
>to work and to the market are inefficient via car. Inefficient in;
>operating cost, environmental impact, resources to maintain roads, and wasted
>land. In the Los Angeles area, I have heard, 25% of the occupied land is for
>vehicles. Imagine what you could do if you had 10% of that land for other
>uses. You could get a large gain in park/open space or community gardens. You
>could have more property for each house.

>Charles

Joel M. Eichen

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Feb 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/5/00
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weidwall <weid...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>New York City. Lots of people don't have cars there.

Jeez, ya mean there is a New York, Florida as well as NY,NY?


>College towns are another. I lived in Ann Arbor and Chapel Hill and
>never owned a car. Didn't bum rides, either.

Bet you stayed home a lot too.

>Ruth Ann

Joel M. Eichen

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Feb 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/5/00
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"suzn" <su...@swbell.net> wrote:

They do not smoke either . . . .they just bum ciggies too!


Joel M. Eichen

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Feb 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/5/00
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"MHellka1" <MHel...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

>Anyone know a place in Florida (or elsewhere) where one can conveniently
>live without a car?

Okeechobee State Prison.

You'll save on food too.

>Convenient walking/biking distance to grocery, library,
>medical, etc. would be major factors.

>Thanks

paulz28

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Feb 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/5/00
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You'll have to at least get a golf cart and then wear those over-sized,
square sunglass frames that fit over your prescription glasses!

Seriously, the urban sprawl out here in SoCal makes a car a necessity.
Conveninent, effective mass transit will never happen here in my
lifetime. Without a car out here, you are dead meat! Go to downtown
Los Angeles, drive 50 miles in any direction, and you will still be in
the city.

MHellka1 wrote:
>
> Anyone know a place in Florida (or elsewhere) where one can conveniently

> live without a car? Convenient walking/biking distance to grocery, library,


> medical, etc. would be major factors.
>
> Thanks

--
x-no-archive: yes

He sleeps til noon but before its dark, he'll have every picnic basket
in Jellystone park. Yogi's livin' like a millionaire, that's because
he's smarter than the average bear.

Pat Meadows

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Feb 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/5/00
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On Sat, 05 Feb 2000 16:01:57 GMT, "MHellka1"
<MHel...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

>Anyone know a place in Florida (or elsewhere) where one can conveniently
>live without a car? Convenient walking/biking distance to grocery, library,
>medical, etc. would be major factors.
>

Newark, Delaware (a university town) would qualify. The
university runs free buses all around the town for the
populace (only from 8 am - 5 pm on week-days, though, making
it fairly useless for anyone who works).

You can live close enough to grocery, library, and medical
to walk to all of them. DART (Delaware Area Rapid
Transport: buses) has pretty good bus service to and from
Wilmington, and to Christiana Mall (a very large mall) as
well as other places.

I suspect a lot of college towns would qualify.

Pat

Joel M. Eichen

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Feb 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/5/00
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JanetB <jaelbrN...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote:

>SoulS...@webtv.net (Soul Surgeon) wrote:
>>Does anybody know of anywhere where you can do this and not be
>>considered a freak?

>I live in the San Francisco Bay Area and went without a car for


>years quite happily. I know lots of others who do the same.
>Even now that I have a car (1981 Isuzu, runs great) I hardly
>have to use it. In fact, trying to find parking in many parts
>of San Francisco and Berkeley is such torture that one would
>have to be demented (or seriously masochistic) to even try to
>drive there.

>I also know plenty of people in Chicago (I'm originally from
>Illinois) who don't have cars.

Really?

In Philadelphia, even the homeless have cars. Some also have SUVs.

Joel M. Eichen

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Feb 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/5/00
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"*Mary*" <mmgr...@stratos.net> wrote:


>Charles Quinn <cmq...@primenet.com> wrote in message
>news:87hunh$c9v$3...@nnrp03.primenet.com...
>> x-no-archive: yes

>> Routine trips


>> to work and to the market are inefficient via car. > Charles

>OK Charles, you try carrying 5 or 6 full bags of groceries on the bus and
>then tell me that a car is enifficent for going to the market. The ONE
>thing we want a car for is so that we can go to the grocery store and not
>have to worry about carrying a ton of groceries home. Of course we live in a
>pretty small town and the bus system is truly horrid here. One hour service
>on the weekdays, 2 hours service on Saturdays and NO service on Sundays. We
>can't wait to get a car!

>Mary

Mary!

Get a bicycle. With saddlebags for groceries.

Joel M. Eichen

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Feb 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/5/00
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melv...@concentric.net (melvalena) wrote:

>Austin, TX over by UTexas.


>SoulS...@webtv.net (Soul Surgeon) wrote:

>>Does anybody know of anywhere where you can do this and not be
>>considered a freak?
>>

>*********************************************


> Competition brings out the best in products and
>the worst in people.--David Sarnoff

Sarnoff? RCA, right?

Wht year was the last U.S. made television set made?

Joel M. Eichen

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Feb 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/5/00
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paulz28 <paulz28...@home.com> wrote:

>You'll have to at least get a golf cart and then wear those over-sized,
>square sunglass frames that fit over your prescription glasses!

>Seriously, the urban sprawl out here in SoCal makes a car a necessity.
>Conveninent, effective mass transit will never happen here in my
>lifetime. Without a car out here, you are dead meat!

And . . .sometimes in Southern California, even with a car, you are
dead meat!

>Go to downtown
>Los Angeles, drive 50 miles in any direction, and you will still be in
>the city.


Or . . . . Go to downtown
Los Angeles, try to walk 5 miles in any direction, and you will still
be dead meat
in the city.

>MHellka1 wrote:
>>
>> Anyone know a place in Florida (or elsewhere) where one can conveniently
>> live without a car? Convenient walking/biking distance to grocery, library,
>> medical, etc. would be major factors.
>>

melvalena

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Feb 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/5/00
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jo...@earthlink.net (Joel M. Eichen) wrote:

>>*********************************************
>> Competition brings out the best in products and
>>the worst in people.--David Sarnoff
>
>Sarnoff? RCA, right?
>
>Wht year was the last U.S. made television set made?

I don't know...I liked the quote.
It speaks volumes to the partner-dance community which I used to be
very involved in. (swing, c/w, a some ballroom).

*********************************************
Competition brings out the best in products and
the worst in people.--David Sarnoff

Don't be reckless with other people's hearts.

JanetB

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Feb 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/5/00
to
In article <pf0n4.4643
$Mk2.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,

jo...@earthlink.net (Joel M. Eichen) wrote:

>>I also know plenty of people in Chicago (I'm originally from
>>Illinois) who don't have cars.
>
>Really?

Yep. Of course it depends on age, income level, lifestyle,
etc. The car-less Chicagoans I know are either young, elderly,
or low-income. My grandparents lived in a building near the
Lake for over thirty years without a car, and were just fine.
When I visited we took the bus everywhere. I do the same now
when I go back there, and find that the bus and the el run
pretty frequently. And the subway is the best way out to O'Hare.

I even met someone in LA who didn't have a car -- and it wasn't
because she couldn't afford it. She just hated driving, and was
lucky enough that some express bus went from near her house to
her office area. I'm afraid this crosses the line for me
though -- you have to spend your life on public transit to get
anywhere in LA.

Holly Grimmett

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Feb 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/5/00
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(posted/emailed)

I was doing fine without one here in Clearwater for quite awhile; I only
bought a car because (1) it was a heck of a good price and (2) the guy
selling it is a good friend of my mother's (older man) who needed to make
the rent one month. Major cities are your best bet, whether in FL or any
other state. I used to live in Orlando and the bus system there was really
lousy then (but that was 5 yrs ago; I don't know if it's improved since
then.) Your email address says you're in Tampa; this or Miami is probably
as good as it's going to get. Maybe Key West, if you can afford it.

--
:-)---Holly---<--<-@
h_gri...@yahoo.com


"MHellka1" <MHel...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:VPXm4.8225$KJ5.1...@typhoon1.tampabay.rr.com...

Dan McGuirk

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Feb 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/5/00
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Soul Surgeon wrote:
> Does anybody know of anywhere where you can do this and not be
> considered a freak?

San Francisco. Of course, you'll probably fit in better here if you
_are_ considered a freak...

Noach

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Feb 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/5/00
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Funny that I should find this message now as I was just about to post a very
similar question to rec.travel.usa-canada.

I live in NYC and I want to move to a warm climate and have the exact same
question about being able to get by easily w/out a car.

I am considering the Miami area and which I have heard would be okay.

San Diego is my other top choice but I know nothing about being carfree
there. Any info. would be appreciated.

Also, it's a long shot, but I am also considering Hawaii and I have heard
that Honolulu has extensive public transportation and things are close
together. Is there public transportation throughout the island of Oahu or
just in the Honolulu metro area?

While we are at it, since this is a 'frugal living' ng, I would appreciate
hearing which residential areas of all three destinations: Miami area, San
Diego, and Honolulu, are (relatively) affordable and safe.

Thank you very much for any info.

A Ferszt

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Feb 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/5/00
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Soul Surgeon wrote:
>
> Does anybody know of anywhere where you can do this and not be
> considered a freak?

Most of the rest of the world.

A Ferszt

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Feb 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/5/00
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*Mary* wrote:
>
> Charles Quinn <cmq...@primenet.com> wrote in message
> news:87hunh$c9v$3...@nnrp03.primenet.com...
> > x-no-archive: yes
> > Routine trips
> > to work and to the market are inefficient via car. > Charles
>
> OK Charles, you try carrying 5 or 6 full bags of groceries on the bus and
> then tell me that a car is enifficent for going to the market. The ONE
> thing we want a car for is so that we can go to the grocery store and not
> have to worry about carrying a ton of groceries home. Of course we live in a
> pretty small town and the bus system is truly horrid here. One hour service
> on the weekdays, 2 hours service on Saturdays and NO service on Sundays. We
> can't wait to get a car!
>
> Mary

Carried that many bags all the time in college and when
living overseas. Used a large rucksack, packed full and
carried one full bag in each hand. Most supermarkets don't
seem to pack bags properly and put too little in each.

You could possibly go shopping more frequently to avoid
carrying so much at one time. I pick up things on the way
home from work, or after visiting friends or whatever.

butt...@powerpuff.com

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Feb 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/5/00
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We have a little "Kiddie Cart" wagon that I would give my kids rides in
when they were much younger (now 12 and 9) and we lived in town. I'd
ride the 1 1/2 to the grocery on my bike, pulling the wagon, but without
kids every chance I had.

Maybe you could find a similar thing to use. I'd sell you mine if you
were near south-central Indiana since it isn't practical to use
anymore. We now live way out in the boonies, on top of a hill, and
there is no way I am going to ride a bike pulling that wagon up a hill
which is 1/2 mile high.

CC

Larisa Migachyov wrote:
>
> *Mary* wrote:
>
> > Charles Quinn <cmq...@primenet.com> wrote in message
> > news:87hunh$c9v$3...@nnrp03.primenet.com...
> > > x-no-archive: yes
> > > Routine trips
> > > to work and to the market are inefficient via car. > Charles
>
> > OK Charles, you try carrying 5 or 6 full bags of groceries on the bus and
> > then tell me that a car is enifficent for going to the market. The ONE
> > thing we want a car for is so that we can go to the grocery store and not
> > have to worry about carrying a ton of groceries home. Of course we live in a
> > pretty small town and the bus system is truly horrid here. One hour service
> > on the weekdays, 2 hours service on Saturdays and NO service on Sundays. We
> > can't wait to get a car!
>

> I bicycle to the grocery store. My bike can carry up to 4 grocery bags.
> No trouble so far.
>
> --
> Larisa Migachyov
> Quaternion Press Publishing House
> Have a math question? Ask the Quaternion at
> http://www.quaternionpress.com/mathhelp.html

Larisa Migachyov

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
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Soul Surgeon wrote:
> Does anybody know of anywhere where you can do this and not be
> considered a freak?

The SF Bay Area. I've been carfree for more than 2 years now. No
problems so far.

Larisa Migachyov

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
to
*Mary* wrote:

> Charles Quinn <cmq...@primenet.com> wrote in message
> news:87hunh$c9v$3...@nnrp03.primenet.com...
> > x-no-archive: yes
> > Routine trips
> > to work and to the market are inefficient via car. > Charles

> OK Charles, you try carrying 5 or 6 full bags of groceries on the bus and
> then tell me that a car is enifficent for going to the market. The ONE
> thing we want a car for is so that we can go to the grocery store and not
> have to worry about carrying a ton of groceries home. Of course we live in a
> pretty small town and the bus system is truly horrid here. One hour service
> on the weekdays, 2 hours service on Saturdays and NO service on Sundays. We
> can't wait to get a car!

I bicycle to the grocery store. My bike can carry up to 4 grocery bags.

No trouble so far.

Joel M. Eichen

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
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JanetB <jaelbrN...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote:

>In article <pf0n4.4643
>$Mk2.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
>jo...@earthlink.net (Joel M. Eichen) wrote:

>>>I also know plenty of people in Chicago (I'm originally from
>>>Illinois) who don't have cars.
>>
>>Really?

>Yep. Of course it depends on age, income level, lifestyle,
>etc. The car-less Chicagoans I know are either young, elderly,
>or low-income. My grandparents lived in a building near the
>Lake for over thirty years without a car, and were just fine.
>When I visited we took the bus everywhere. I do the same now
>when I go back there, and find that the bus and the el run
>pretty frequently. And the subway is the best way out to O'Hare.

Only problem is public transportation is expensive. A car is way
cheaper!

Joel M. Eichen

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
to
Larisa Migachyov <l...@Stanford.EDU> wrote:

>Soul Surgeon wrote:
>> Does anybody know of anywhere where you can do this and not be
>> considered a freak?

>The SF Bay Area. I've been carfree for more than 2 years now. No
>problems so far.

Yeh, but everybody thinks you are saying "carefree," not "carfree."

Paula in Houston

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
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Joel M. Eichen <jo...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:9e0n4.4469$563.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

> "*Mary*" <mmgr...@stratos.net> wrote:
>
>
> >Charles Quinn <cmq...@primenet.com> wrote in message
> >news:87hunh$c9v$3...@nnrp03.primenet.com...
> >> x-no-archive: yes
> >> Routine trips
> >> to work and to the market are inefficient via car. > Charles
>
> >OK Charles, you try carrying 5 or 6 full bags of groceries on the bus and
> >then tell me that a car is enifficent for going to the market. The ONE
> >thing we want a car for is so that we can go to the grocery store and not
> >have to worry about carrying a ton of groceries home. Of course we live
in a
> >pretty small town and the bus system is truly horrid here. One hour
service
> >on the weekdays, 2 hours service on Saturdays and NO service on Sundays.
We
> >can't wait to get a car!
>
> >Mary
>
> Mary!
>
> Get a bicycle. With saddlebags for groceries.
>
This isn't as goofy as it sounds. My grandmother had an adult "tricycle"
with baskets. She rode it everywhere, until she was in her late 60's.

Obviously it's best to keep off of major roads, but if you live in a small
town, or have a grocery store that you can get to buy riding on the
neighborhood streets, it's not a bad, car-free alternative. Good exercise
too.

Paula

Larisa Migachyov

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
to
Joel M. Eichen wrote:
> Larisa Migachyov <l...@Stanford.EDU> wrote:

> >Soul Surgeon wrote:
> >> Does anybody know of anywhere where you can do this and not be
> >> considered a freak?

> >The SF Bay Area. I've been carfree for more than 2 years now. No
> >problems so far.

> Yeh, but everybody thinks you are saying "carefree," not "carfree."

Well, considering the worries I had about traffic tickets, accidents, and
the astronomical insurance rate I was paying (due to all those accidents
and speeding tickets), both of these would apply now.

Steve Blume

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
to
Some communities, such as Portland, offer car co-ops. For a membership
fee you have the right to use of a communally owned car. The average
cars just sits 95% of the time. I've lived 25 years in Europe without
owning a car. Car co-ops are commonplace. The expenses and my sense
of environmental responsibility outweighed the convenience. I now walk
and use public trans during the Chicago winter, but confess to running
(and living in) a minivan the rest of the year. I have no problem
walking a mile to the market every other day with a daypack to buy
groceries. The fresh air is good and I don't carry any "extra" pounds
that these people that are addicted to driving any distance further
than the mailbox.

Steve
sblume at mediaone dot net


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

paulz28

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
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Order groceries on the internet and have them delivered to you.

Joel M. Eichen

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
to
paulz28 <paulz28...@home.com> wrote:

>Order groceries on the internet and have them delivered to you.

Since Priceline dot com, I have not been outside of my house in 6
years.

Noach

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
to
But I thought w/ Priceline you still have to *go* to your local grocery
store.

"Joel M. Eichen" <jo...@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:GXgn4.5894$563.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

Lech K. Lesiak

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
to
On Sat, 5 Feb 2000, *Mary* wrote:

> OK Charles, you try carrying 5 or 6 full bags of groceries on the bus and
> then tell me that a car is enifficent for going to the market. The ONE
> thing we want a car for is so that we can go to the grocery store and not
> have to worry about carrying a ton of groceries home. Of course we live in a

I do all the grocery shopping using my bike. It means stopping at the
store three or four times a week, but the grocery stores are usually on my
route. I could cut that number of trips down to one if i got a bike
trailer, but it's not worth it for me.

Bike shopping is far easier on the nerves than using a car. Don't have to
worry about traffic, parking, or getting your car broken into. You also
get to park closer to the door than even the handicapped.

The only negatives are that you have to learn through trial and error how
much you can carry, how to distribute the load, and it takes a couple of
minutes to load up.

Cheers,
Lech


Joel M. Eichen

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
to
"Noach" <azure7R...@mindspring.REMOVE.com> wrote:

>But I thought w/ Priceline you still have to *go* to your local grocery
>store.

You do. And you'll be lucky to save anything after your initial $10
runs out. Of course, you can earn $3 at a time by taking surveys and
stuff, but hey! That's like work.

Sometimes their prices are below supermarket prices, sometimes its
higher. Again, they are relying on the witlessness of the American
public.

Cheers,

Joel

---

Joel M. Eichen

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
to
Steve Blume <sbl...@my-deja.com> wrote:

>Some communities, such as Portland, offer car co-ops. For a membership
>fee you have the right to use of a communally owned car.

We have that. But the guys who borrow the cars are car thieves. Later
on they look outside and somebody else has stolen their stolen car.

>The average
>cars just sits 95% of the time.

Which is fine by me just to keep you from eating Kentucky Fried
Chicken inside my car.

> I've lived 25 years in Europe without
>owning a car.

I think I know you. You are guy I saw walking.

>Car co-ops are commonplace. The expenses and my sense
>of environmental responsibility outweighed the convenience. I now walk
>and use public trans during the Chicago winter, but confess to running
>(and living in) a minivan the rest of the year.

Is there a shower?

> I have no problem
>walking a mile to the market every other day with a daypack to buy
>groceries. The fresh air is good and I don't carry any "extra" pounds
>that these people that are addicted to driving any distance further
>than the mailbox.

>Steve

Wondering what you do for work?

Lech K. Lesiak

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
to
On Sun, 6 Feb 2000, Joel M. Eichen wrote:

> Only problem is public transportation is expensive. A car is way
> cheaper!

That's absurd. Around here a bus pass costs 40 bucks a month. I defy
anyone to run a car for that cost. My auto insurance alone costs that.

Cheers,
Lech


Joel M. Eichen

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
to
"Lech K. Lesiak" <lkle...@calcna.ab.ca> wrote:

>On Sun, 6 Feb 2000, Joel M. Eichen wrote:

>> Only problem is public transportation is expensive. A car is way
>> cheaper!

>That's absurd. Around here a bus pass costs 40 bucks a month.

$10 a week! I'm movin'

Lech K. Lesiak

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
to
On Sun, 6 Feb 2000, paulz28 wrote:

> Order groceries on the internet and have them delivered to you.

A Toronto Globe and Mail writer reported on her experience with online
grocery shopping. Generally more expensive, and the delivery times are
inconvenient. She did end up getting a bunch of groceries free because of
foul-ups.

Cheers,
Lech


Steve Blume

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
to
In article <l0in4.6057$Mk2.2...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,

jo...@earthlink.net (Joel M. Eichen) wrote:
> Steve Blume <sbl...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> >Some communities, such as Portland, offer car co-ops. For a
membership fee you have the right to use of a communally owned car.
>
> We have that. But the guys who borrow the cars are car thieves. Later
> on they look outside and somebody else has stolen their stolen car.
Paranoia. Go back to your television.

>
> >The average
> >cars just sits 95% of the time.
>
> Which is fine by me just to keep you from eating Kentucky Fried
> Chicken inside my car.
Most Americans would sooner share their wives than share their cars.
Look where it's gotten you.

>
> > I've lived 25 years in Europe without
> >owning a car.
>
> I think I know you. You are guy I saw walking.
That's right, Joel. These legs can carry me 20 miles with a full
pack. And yours?

>
> >Car co-ops are commonplace. The expenses and my sense
> >of environmental responsibility outweighed the convenience. I now
>walk and use public trans during the Chicago winter, but confess to
running(and living in) a minivan the rest of the year.
>
> Is there a shower?
The shower is the nearest lake or river, or a "solar shower", sold at K-
mart for $10.

>
> > I have no problem
> >walking a mile to the market every other day with a daypack to buy
> >groceries. The fresh air is good and I don't carry any "extra"
pounds
> >that these people that are addicted to driving any distance further
> >than the mailbox.
>
> >Steve
>
> Wondering what you do for work?
Wondering what I do for work, Joel? I don't. Retired at 49. Lived
frugally, saved my money instead of pouring into a gas tank and on
insurance. How much vacation time do you have?

Joel M. Eichen

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
to
"Lech K. Lesiak" <lkle...@calcna.ab.ca> wrote:

Well then foul-up some groceries right over to my door too!


>Cheers,
>Lech


JanetB

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
to
"Lech K. Lesiak" <lkle...@calcna.ab.ca> wrote:
>On Sun, 6 Feb 2000, Joel M. Eichen wrote:
>
>> Only problem is public transportation is expensive. A car is
>> way
>> cheaper!
>
>That's absurd. Around here a bus pass costs 40 bucks a month.
>I defy
>anyone to run a car for that cost. My auto insurance alone
>costs that.

You're absolutely right. Most cities have bus or transit pass
programs for similar prices. When I did without a car here in
the Bay Area (where I used a combination of buses and BART), I
spent about that much for transit each month. It was the same
when I lived in Illinois. With car payments, maintenance,
insurance, and parking, I can't imagine how someone running a
car could spend that little per month.

Although I haven't heard of this sort of thing in other areas,
there's another option in the Bay Area that I used when I did a
summer internship in San Francisco (commuting from Oakland).
There are various curbside stops around town where people line
up for "casual carpools." Cars pull up, folks get in (2 or 3
passengers from the line, depending on whether there are more
cars waiting for passengers or vice versa), and then you drive
off to downtown SF where the dropoff point is the bus terminal
building. The drivers save money because they get to use the
carpool lane over the Bay Bridge and don't have to pay the
bridge toll, and the riders get a free ride into the city. At
the time I used it, it worked only one way (East Bay to SF), so
I would have to take BART home. However, it cut commuting costs
by half. These days, they have added carpooling back to the
East Bay in the evenings, and the drivers get to use a faster
bridge on-ramp. If I worked in the city (I now work in
Oakland), I would use it and have no commute cost at all. It's
very handy, but perhaps not transferable to other locations.

Dennis

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
to
Soul Surgeon wrote:
>
> Does anybody know of anywhere where you can do this and not be
> considered a freak?

Had you considered the circus?

Dennis (evil)

Rune5

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
to
>
>Anyone know a place in Florida (or elsewhere) where one can conveniently
>live without a car? Convenient walking/biking distance to grocery, library,
>medical, etc. would be major factors.

Key West, but it's so expensive to live there that it probably wouldn't be a
long term situation. Housing for one thing is so expensive that cops, firemen,
etc are moonlighting just to keep up with the costs. I saw in the paper (Miami
Herald) last year that some employers have gone to the extent of offering
housing with the jobs...

paulz28

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
to
Look, if all else fails, move to Italy. Keep reading to see what I
mean:

150 Italian communities ban cars for a day


By GUNTHER KERN

http://www.nando.net/healthscience/story/0,1080,500164256-500207952-500954351-0,00.html

ROME (February 6, 2000 9:14 a.m. EST
http://www.nandotimes.com) - About 150 Italian towns and cities
banned all but electric vehicles and public transportation from
their streets Sunday, as part of a one-day experiment to improve
air quality in heavily polluted city centers. Rome, Florence and
Milan were among the cities.

To make life easier for those addicted to their cars, public
transportation and access to many museums and archaeological
sites were free in some cities while others offered reductions.

The ban was promoted by Environment Minister Edo Ronchi, but
individual cities could decide whether they wanted to participate.
The next proposed dates for car-free days are March 5, April 9
and May 7.

"These four Sundays will mark a turning point in urban transport
and win over skeptics," said Ronchi, who arrived in Rome's central
Piazza Venezia with his 2 1/2-year-old son Nicolo on his electric
bicycle.

The previous car-free day, in 92 towns and cities in September,
turned out to be a flop, but Ronchi said he was happy with the
support shown by mayors for his latest initiative.

"This is necessary oxygen for our lungs," he said. "It helps cut an
accumulation of pollutants and interrupts continuous exposure."

Grazia Francescato, leader of the nation's Green Party, welcomed
the one-day ban, rejecting criticism that on Monday, things would
be back to the normal chaos and pollution.

"We do not want our children to remain under house arrest
because of smog," she said, adding that the ban meant "no
sacrifice."

Ten cities ordered all but emergency traffic to stop. They included
Milan and Turin, which both suffer from severe smog during
winter and summer months and were shrouded in thick fog
Sunday, as well as Naples.

In Rome and in four other cities, buses, streetcars and subways
were free while reduced-price travel was offered in Florence, Turin,
Genoa, Ferrara and Pistoia.

Palermo city officials have gone further, deciding to close off the
city center on every one of the 17 Sundays until the end of May.

According to World Health Organization figures, 15,000 people die
in Italy every year due to smog-related illnesses, and 80,000 in
Europe.

But Ivo Allegrini, head of the air pollution department at the
National Research Center (CNR), estimates that car-free Sundays
only reduce pollution levels by 2 percent a month.

Bans once a week would cut smog by 7 percent, which he said
was significant but still not drastic enough to really improve air
quality.

"We must better inform people on the risks of pollution, and
above all we must make sure that public transport can satisfy
mobility demands," he said.

"If people are unhappy with buses and subways, they will not only
shun public transports on Sundays but also on other weekdays."


MHellka1 wrote:
>
> Anyone know a place in Florida (or elsewhere) where one can conveniently
> live without a car? Convenient walking/biking distance to grocery, library,
> medical, etc. would be major factors.
>

> Thanks

Soul Surgeon

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
to
Ilya wrote <I am not sure you would save any money without a car>

I know I would not be able to live such a hedonistic lifestyle with a
car on just $8 an hour. Also I am 7 minutes from work on foot so I am
doing quite fine without one. the only downside is that I will never be
able to get any chicks but I am used to it by now.


Larisa Migachyov

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Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00