On Jul 31, 8:46 pm, John B. <
johnbsloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> rOn Tue, 31 Jul 2012 09:09:27 -0700 (PDT), "TibetanMonkey, the Beach
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> Cruiser Philosopher" <
thetibetanmon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Jul 31, 4:07 am, John B. <
johnbsloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 30 Jul 2012 17:41:32 -0700 (PDT), "TibetanMonkey, the Beach
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> >> Cruiser Philosopher" <
nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >On Jul 30, 8:14 pm, James <
james.e.stew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> On 31/07/12 09:58, TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher wrote:
>
> >> >> > What were the engineers thinking about when they built America around
> >> >> > the automobile?
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> >> >> Was America built, or did it grow?
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> >> >Why America grew one way and Germany another?
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> >> >In other words, why one grew smart and the other one not? Perhaps
> >> >because they failed one time and grew out of the ashes? Or why Hong
> >> >Kong grew around the scooter and not the automobile? Can we blame real
> >> >estate for the sprawl in America? London put a stop to growth in the
> >> >30's and that was a smart decision taken when we were really stupid.
> >> >Was it the politicians?
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> >> >Perhaps we can name some names and be satisfied we found the guilty
> >> >party. At least we should be able to chart a better future, right?
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> >> >> I doubt engineers had a whole lot of say. They are not usually the
> >> >> decision makers.
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> >> >They can certainly refuse to follow stupid orders. ;)
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> >> >> > We can not possibly blame the pedestrians and cyclists, right?
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> >> >> Nope. Who can you blame? Everyone does what they think is best for
> >> >> them and theirs. It's not a holistic approach.
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> >> >> --
> >> >> JS.
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> >> >It's a profiteering approach, that's all it is.
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> >> Blame Henry Ford and yourself, the American Public. Henry built a car
> >> that was cheap enough for Mr. Average Man to buy and Mr. Average
> >> immediately began to clamor for better roads to drive his new Ford on.
> >> Cheers,
> >> John B.
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> >The American public could not have been that dumb. It needed to kill
> >the trolleys, public transportation, walking and biking as viable
> >options. Then advertising did the rest.
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> I hate to tell you, but you are imagining things. The reason trolley
> lines and other forms of public transportation died is due to lack of
> public use. Income dropped and the systems were abandoned. In locales
> where it is less practical to drive the systems are still in use.
> Think New York, London and other city subway systems.
Exactly, the sprawl made the walking, biking and public transportation
impractical. It is said that L.A. pioneered this model and all the
rest followed.
NYC and London on the other hand prove that where density is high a
number of good things happen. At least walking is practical. Lack of
parking make this "miracle" happen as well.
Sad thing is that the bike could manage the sprawl but brutal traffic
is often a deterrence.
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> As for the public's stupidity, I lived in a suburb of Los Angeles back
> in the late 60's and early 70's and watched the citizens vote against
> financing the building of a public transport system for the city, not
> once, but twice.
And now they are trying to change that. People is stupid while they
are guided in the wrong direction. They also had to live in that
filthy smog. San Francisco went some other way and I understand it's
more livable.
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> >Anyway let's lay out what we need and what we don't:
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> >(in my humble opinion)
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> >On Jul 31, 11:25 am, "possum" <
zen102...@zen.co.uk> wrote:
> >> "Julian" <
julianlz...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >> messagenews:jv88m8$boi$1...@dont-email.me...
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> >> > On 31/07/2012 09:52, qzwxec wrote:
> >> >> "Julian" <
julianlz...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >> >> message
> >> >>news:jv65gc$ofu$1...@dont-email.me...
> >> >>> On 30/07/2012 14:40, TibetanMonkey, the
> >> >>> Beach Cruiser Philosopher wrote:
> >> >>>> (I may have given up my dream of riding
> >> >>>> a bike in America, but
> >> >>>> walking... walking is the ultimate
> >> >>>> necessity of the human being.
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> >> >>> Are paraplegics not human?
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> >> >> Cannot see the point.
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> >> >> All are very sorry for paraplegics.
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> >> >> Do you mean that because of paraplegics
> >> >> other healthy more lucky humans
> >> >> should not practice & enjoy walking?
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> >> > No.
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> >> there's the issue that monkey's claim that
> >> "walking is the ultimate necessity of the
> >> human being" can't stand up, if you'll
> >> pardon the pun.
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> >> possum
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> >To make it dangerous, to make it stupid, to make it impractical
> >doesn't mean walking is not the ultimate need of the human being.
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> >In most places around the world --those who dismiss the American way
> >of life-- walking is still the way to go. But not only that, walking
> >allows socialization, which is another human necessity.
>
> And once again your pipe dreams overcome reality.
>
> In most places around the world people, as soon as they earn a bit of
> money, buy a bicycle. A few years later, when salaries increase a bit
> they buy a motorbike and then a bit later on as the economy gets even
> better they buy an automobile. In a really dynamic economy the whole
> process takes less then 50 years to happen.
Not necessarily. The Netherlands, Germany and Japan are going in some
other direction. Perhaps because they got strong cultures not
permeated by individualism.
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> >When we want to punish people we put them in solitary confinement in a
> >3' by 3' cell. "Roaming free" is the ultimate necessity, which
> >includes the bike, the scooter, the motorcycle and anything that is
> >not a cage. Grab a donkey if you will and go exploring your world.
> >That's what Jesus would do.
>
> People aren't confined to cells. You can walk, or ride a bike, in any
> city. I walk/ride in Bangkok which has some of the most hectic traffic
> in the world. You could do the same if you would only open the front
> door and go out "there".
That advice can get people killed. Not to be practiced in Miami Beach
and most other sprawls. Most people try to survive by riding the
sidewalk which is not even safe. Then there's a conflict with
pedestrians --if they are found at all. Most American cities are ghost
towns.
Perhaps Bangkok can be compared with NYC where many cyclists brave the
streets. They are not the same type of winos and immigrants that you
find in the sprawl, but real respectable cyclists. Make no mistake:
It's still a dangerous jungle out there. There's safety numbers, so
the more the better. Let the fallen be awarded our eternal gratitude.
I may be taking a real revolutionary step and go where I can be a
human being whether I'm on foot or bike. I feel my humanity is being
denied here so it may be time to leave...
My war against traffic, corruption and plain stupidity is over. Not
even the boondocks is the solution. It's worse than anything. No
trails, no people. Once I'm in Nirvana (hopefully with a bike and a
banana) my struggle is over. I know the grass is greener on the other
side.
Amsterdam!