Okay to Take Hotel Toilet Paper?
Billy
>> Me and a friend disgaree and need feedback.
>>
>> One of us feels that when you stay at a hotel it is okay to take the extra
>> roll of toilet paper that is usually in the room. The other of us disagrees.
Stealing is stealing is stealing. If it is a product that could be used
elsewhere...why not steal the bedspread....??
Besides, if you can't afford shampoo...maybe you should be staying under the
overpass not paying cash to check into a room.
Myrtlewood Favorite Recipes are located at
http://www.myrtlewood.net/myrtleweb
Visualize Financial Peace!
Joel M. Eichen
>x-no-archive:yes
>Alan Bell wrote:
>>
>> Me and a friend disgaree and need feedback.
>>
>> One of us feels that when you stay at a hotel it is okay to take the extra
>> roll of toilet paper that is usually in the room. The other of us disagrees.
Its okay to use it while it is there . . . duh?
>>
>> For taking: It's a consumable, like other consumables in a hotel room, e.g.,
>> mints, soap, little bottles of shampoo, etc. It's not like taking a towel or
>> a pillow which are not expected to be used up.
>>
>> Against taking: The toilet paper is a consumable designed to be used in the
>> room, not taken away for use elsewhere. Mints, on the other hand, are
>> designed to be used in the room or elsewhere.
Are you sure? I thought you had to eat them while sitting on the bed.
>Some companies expect you to take certain items and they call this
>"expected pilfering."
>Yea, I always grab a pen (or two) that are in the hotels but never
>found the need for toilet paper.
I like taking the desk and chair but I am afraid.
>I usually stay at DAYS INN and found them to have the best rates, and
>are usually clean and well stocked. Some even have microwaves and small
>refrigerators in the rooms now.
But they have scratchy toilet paper.
>Once I stayed at a budget motel in NJ and the phone, TV and all light
>bulbs were missing! The person before me must have been desperate!
>Toilet paper, pens, and soap are expected to be taken.
>(ken)
>-------------------------------------------------------
>If you wish to donate money for to help animals that's
>your own business - and the Journal printed my letter:
>http://www.jrnl.com/news/00/Mar/jrn72240300.html
>-------------------------------------------------------
Joel M. Eichen
>"Ken M." <pobo...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>> Me and a friend disgaree and need feedback.
>>>
>>> One of us feels that when you stay at a hotel it is okay to take the extra
>>> roll of toilet paper that is usually in the room. The other of us disagrees.
>Stealing is stealing is stealing. If it is a product that could be used
>elsewhere...why not steal the bedspread....??
Hey! There's an idea . . .
Ted Lind
It always amazes me at how quickly ethics go out the window when the act is
considered to be a minor crime. Perhaps the ethics were out the window
already but just came to light after the fact.
These items are put in the room for your comfort and needs while you stay
there. I am sure the owner of the facility does not do it so that you can
make it your personal supply room. You mentioned staying at cheap but nice
motels. If guests systematically resupply themselves it only adds to cost.
The motel then has the choice of becoming less cheap or less nice. I am also
sure you will be the first to complain about how the chain is "robbing"
you.
Ken M. <pobo...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:38F313BA...@ix.netcom.com...
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> "Joel M. Eichen" wrote:
> >
> > "Ken M." <pobo...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Yea, I always grab a pen (or two) that are in the hotels but never
> > >found the need for toilet paper.
>
> > I like taking the desk and chair but I am afraid.
>
> BWHAHAHAHA!! Joel, you're a riot sometimes!
>
> (ken)
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> If you want to see the cutest Chihuahuas (not mine) go to:
> http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=27506&a=863318
> Please sign the guest book & tell Bonnie that "Ken sent you!"
> ---------------------------------------------------------
Trina
entirety on a visit is OK to take: shampoo, coffee packet
(single serving), etc.
It is not OK to take something that would be expected to last
through numerous visits, e.g. toilet paper.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
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Lech K. Lesiak
> Stealing is stealing is stealing. If it is a product that could be used
> elsewhere...why not steal the bedspread....??
I don't think so. If I take an extra paper towel out of a restaurant
washroom to clean my windshield, is that as serious a criminal offence as
robbing the poor box?
Cheers,
Lech
Elaine Gallant
I back you up on this one. Small consumables are intended for guests to
take. Some hotels give Away small items as a form of advertising. it would
not seem that toilet paper would be part of the deal.
To me, that's where frugal crosses the line into the territory of cheap. I
mean honestly.... a person who can't be left alone with the TOILET PAPER or
they'll be tempted to swipe it.
Ken M. wrote in message <38F2D7F3...@ix.netcom.com>...
>x-no-archive:yes
>
>Alan Bell wrote:
>>
>> Me and a friend disgaree and need feedback.
>>
>> One of us feels that when you stay at a hotel it is okay to take the
extra
>> roll of toilet paper that is usually in the room. The other of us
disagrees.
>>
>> For taking: It's a consumable, like other consumables in a hotel room,
e.g.,
>> mints, soap, little bottles of shampoo, etc. It's not like taking a towel
or
>> a pillow which are not expected to be used up.
>>
>> Against taking: The toilet paper is a consumable designed to be used in
the
>> room, not taken away for use elsewhere. Mints, on the other hand, are
>> designed to be used in the room or elsewhere.
>
>Some companies expect you to take certain items and they call this
>"expected pilfering."
>
>Yea, I always grab a pen (or two) that are in the hotels but never
>found the need for toilet paper.
>
>I usually stay at DAYS INN and found them to have the best rates, and
>are usually clean and well stocked. Some even have microwaves and small
>refrigerators in the rooms now.
>
Bob Ward
wrote:
>x-no-archive:yes
>
>Ted Lind wrote:
>>
>> If you owned the motel, I expect you would have a different point of view.
>> It always amazes me at how quickly ethics go out the window when the act is
>> considered to be a minor crime. Perhaps the ethics were out the window
>> already but just came to light after the fact.
>>
>> These items are put in the room for your comfort and needs while you stay
>> there. I am sure the owner of the facility does not do it so that you can
>> make it your personal supply room. You mentioned staying at cheap but nice
>> motels. If guests systematically resupply themselves it only adds to cost.
>> The motel then has the choice of becoming less cheap or less nice. I am also
>> sure you will be the first to complain about how the chain is "robbing"
>> you.
>
>Hold on. I never said it was OK to steal. I have a friend who owns a
>small motel and another one who manages a 200-room franchise. Both of
>them agree there is *expected pilferage* -- meaning a small bar of soap,
>a pen,
>maybe a roll of toilet paper.
>
>But nobody expects or justifies stealing towels, sheets, blankets or
>telephones....they can be expensive to replace, and you are right, the
>cost gets passed on to the consumer.
>
>(ken)
>
Although you might not be able to grasp the subtle difference,
"expected pilferage" does not mean that it's OK to steal. Towels are
also on the list of things that are likely to be stolen, but that does
not give one the right to take them.
Mesas
it's stuck to the bottom of your shoe.
Theresa
--
Theresa mesa...@earthlink.net
Bev
>
> My take: an item that would be expected to be used up in its
> entirety on a visit is OK to take: shampoo, coffee packet
> (single serving), etc.
>
> It is not OK to take something that would be expected to last
> through numerous visits, e.g. toilet paper.
Depends. (Yes, in classy hotels they give you those, too.) If there was a
fresh, unused roll in the holder when you checked in, I think it's
permissible to take that when you leave -- clearly, each guest gets a new
roll and they throw the old one away so you might as well take it. It is
NOT permissible to take the new, wrapped spare roll.
'Stealing' the shampoo miniatures is a waste of time. I have shampoolets
from 15 years ago that I'm saving for a trip, but on REAL trips I just take
along the quart of liquid detergent that gets used for ALL cleaning
purposes and leave the shampoolets home. I see basketfuls of them for sale
at yard sales, and nobody ever buys them...
--
Cheers,
Bev
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Do not try to solve all life's problems at once -- learn to
dread each day as it comes. -- Donald Kaul
Wendy
>Trina wrote:
>Depends. (Yes, in classy hotels they give you those, too.) If there was a
>fresh, unused roll in the holder when you checked in, I think it's
>permissible to take that when you leave -- clearly, each guest gets a new
>roll and they throw the old one away so you might as well take it. It is
>NOT permissible to take the new, wrapped spare roll.
I have never been in a hotel classy enough to put a new toilet paper
roll in for each guest! That is one of the most wasteful things I've
ever heard of.
--
"The same designers who brought you the videocassette recorder that
you couldn't program, the digital watch that you couldn't set, and the
stovetop controls that you couldn't learn will now bring you the fully
automated house." -- Donald A. Norman
pc...@ludl.tds.net
Wendy wrote:
>
> In article <38F36839...@ktb.net>, Bev <bas...@ktb.net> wrote:
> >Trina wrote:
> >Depends. (Yes, in classy hotels they give you those, too.) If there was a
> >fresh, unused roll in the holder when you checked in, I think it's
> >permissible to take that when you leave -- clearly, each guest gets a new
> >roll and they throw the old one away so you might as well take it. It is
> >NOT permissible to take the new, wrapped spare roll.
>
> I have never been in a hotel classy enough to put a new toilet paper
> roll in for each guest! That is one of the most wasteful things I've
> ever heard of.
> --
Nah not wasteful. I've been managing group sales and tours at a three
diamond hotel in a resort ski area. I wondered how many of these
employees could survive on such paltry pay. The housekeeping staff made
about the same wages as the rest of us. Plus they got tips. And, they
get all the toilet paper they want and massive quantities of unopened
food and drink that guests leave behind in their refrigerators [not to
mention some very nice articles of clothing left in rooms, I'm sure].
I've never seen any of these things in the clear trash bags that
housekeeping uses. So, the remnants do get used up by someone. Which
is good I guess.
That being said, I don't understand why people take so many towels.
About half of ours disappeared over the winter. And they are scuzzy
towels! To combat some of that, if I ever saw somebody limping [we get
lot's of weekend warriors here] I would ask them if I could prepare and
icepack for them. And I'd use a good, big rag to cover an icebag. I'm
sure that cut down on the towel taking a bit. But, only a bit.
PC
Bev
>
> In article <38F36839...@ktb.net>, Bev <bas...@ktb.net> wrote:
> >Trina wrote:
> >Depends. (Yes, in classy hotels they give you those, too.) If there was a
> >fresh, unused roll in the holder when you checked in, I think it's
> >permissible to take that when you leave -- clearly, each guest gets a new
> >roll and they throw the old one away so you might as well take it. It is
> >NOT permissible to take the new, wrapped spare roll.
>
> I have never been in a hotel classy enough to put a new toilet paper
> roll in for each guest! That is one of the most wasteful things I've
> ever heard of.
I've never seen one where you DIDN'T get one, but I don't think I've stayed
in a h/motel more than 30 times in my entire life, and then only when the
company was paying for it. I think it's insane to spend money to sleep in
a bed, but the people who make the business travel arrangements for you
make it just too damn difficult for you to get a room at the Y or
something. I'd sleep in the rental car if they'd pay me even a part of the
room rate!
Upon further reflection, if a motel is going to charge you $100 to sleep in
a bed, take every damn roll of toilet paper with you that isn't nailed
down!
--
Cheers,
Bev
<> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <>
Some mornings it's just not worth chewing through the straps.
Ray
people won't stoop down to pick up a penny off the ground because it would
embarrass them. Regardless of whether it's "permitted" or "expected," I still
would feel that making off with a roll of toilet paper is even more demeaning
than picking up a penny. Yes, maybe they don't know you're doing it, but You
know.
--
Ray
Who to send e-mail responses to: megalosaurus
Where to send them att.net
cindy
> But nobody expects or justifies stealing towels, sheets, blankets or
> telephones....they can be expensive to replace, and you are right, the
> cost gets passed on to the consumer.
And in some cases the original pilferer. We stayed in a really nice place
with another couple one time. The rooms came supplied with these gorgeous
terrycloth robes. Try as I might, I could not convince the other woman that
those robes were not to be taken. She took one. On her next charge card
bill was a charge for $150. She was outraged. She also had to pay it.
Cindy
cindy
Bev <bas...@ktb.net> wrote in message news:38F36839...@ktb.net...
> 'Stealing' the shampoo miniatures is a waste of time. I have shampoolets
> from 15 years ago that I'm saving for a trip, but on REAL trips I just
take
> along the quart of liquid detergent that gets used for ALL cleaning
> purposes and leave the shampoolets home. I see basketfuls of them for
sale
> at yard sales, and nobody ever buys them...
>
The small size allows women to take some when they move on.
Cindy
Paul D.
>The best way to answer this issue is obvious and definitive - ask the
>hotel. If you want the extra roll of toilet paper, ask the hotel
>clerk/manager if you can take it. I suspect most people expect that
>the answer will probably be "no", so instead try to "assume" the
>desired answer and find ways to justify it. And if the answer is
>"yes", then your conscious can be clear.
>
>It's a simple issue with a simple resolution.
From having once worked in a hotel, I can tell you that desk clerks
and most managers don't get paid enough to give a fu*k whether or not
you took the toilet paper (or the toilet itself for that matter);
especially in the myriad of "economy," hotels that are littering the
landscape now-a-days.
--
Paul D.
"Find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
--George Carlin
Bev
>
> Excellent point, Elaine. Doesn't a sense of personal pride enter into this? Most
> people won't stoop down to pick up a penny off the ground because it would
> embarrass them. Regardless of whether it's "permitted" or "expected," I still
> would feel that making off with a roll of toilet paper is even more demeaning
> than picking up a penny. Yes, maybe they don't know you're doing it, but You
> know.
Huh? You would be demeaned by bending over to pick up a penny? Well, what
*would* it cost to get you to bend over? A quarter? A $5 bill? What
other harmless, legal and marginally productive tasks are you too good to
do? Would you hire somebody else to do them? Somebody figured out how
much it would cost Bill Gates to pick up the spare change in his path and
determined that he would be much better off financially hiring people at
top-level executive salaries to do it for him. Are you in that class?
Which one?
Jeez...
--
Cheers,
Bev
=======================================================================
"Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things that I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the
bodies of the people who pissed me off."
Elaine Gallant
I don't pick up pennies, but stop for dimes. Nope- not even tempted to
swipe towels, bath mats, or toilet paper from hotels. If I really wanted
commemorative towels, I'd buy them.
It is a point of pride, as I used to have a habit of pilfering small things
as a teen. As I grew up, swiping things no longer seemed like a good thing
to do.
Ray wrote in message <38F3796C.780DFDB1@go__away.com>...
>Excellent point, Elaine. Doesn't a sense of personal pride enter into this?
Most
>people won't stoop down to pick up a penny off the ground because it would
>embarrass them. Regardless of whether it's "permitted" or "expected," I
still
>would feel that making off with a roll of toilet paper is even more
demeaning
>than picking up a penny. Yes, maybe they don't know you're doing it, but
You
>know.
>
Bob Ward
But taking a whole package of paper towels is a different matter.
suzn
"Ray" <r@go__away.com> wrote in message
news:38F3796C.780DFDB1@go__away.com...
> Excellent point, Elaine. Doesn't a sense of personal pride enter into
this? Most
> people won't stoop down to pick up a penny off the ground because it would
> embarrass them. Regardless of whether it's "permitted" or "expected," I
still
> would feel that making off with a roll of toilet paper is even more
demeaning
> than picking up a penny. Yes, maybe they don't know you're doing it, but
You
> know.
Oh I dont know Ray....was I demeaning when I stooped and picked up a penny
off the side walk that was dated 1935? I have no idea how much that penny
is worth (not a coin collector myself) but I am sure its worth more than
one cent.....it had to be the most embarrassing day of my life.......
Judy Bay
Bev wrote:
> 'Stealing' the shampoo miniatures is a waste of time. I have shampoolets
> from 15 years ago that I'm saving for a trip, but on REAL trips I just take
> along the quart of liquid detergent that gets used for ALL cleaning
> purposes and leave the shampoolets home. I see basketfuls of them for sale
> at yard sales, and nobody ever buys them...
>
f...@yeahoo.com
is low. It is theft, albeit very petty.
On Tue, 11 Apr 2000 03:44:51 -0400, "Ken M." <pobo...@ix.netcom.com>
Joel M. Eichen
>Who told you that toilet paper is expected to be taken?
It is all right to take the toilet paper, but you must unroll it
first. Some people have been known to smuggle it outside under their
clothes, but many motels have paper-snigffing dogs to thwart this kind
of activity.
Paul D.
>True, but irrelevant. The clerk, no matter how apathetic and
>underpaid, is acting as an agent that represents the hotel, and his
>actions are binding. Unless you *know* that he is violating company
>policy (like offering you the TV and bed in the room), you are in the
>clear if he tells you the toiletries may be taken with you.
And more than likely, that clerk is going to say you can take it with
you on the toilet paper question simply to aviod an arguement with you
and get back to reading the paper (usually the help wanted ads) or
whatever he/she was doing.
BTW, I wouldn't advise asking if you can take the bed or the TV,
though. The clerk will probablly cover their ass by calling the law if
you indicate you are going to steal something expensive.
Bev
>
> Pour the "shampoolets" into your regular shampoo bottle at home.
OK, chorus, all together now: "BUT WE MIGHT NEEEEEEED THE LITTLE ONES SOME
DAY..."
> Bev wrote:
> > 'Stealing' the shampoo miniatures is a waste of time. I have shampoolets
> > from 15 years ago that I'm saving for a trip, but on REAL trips I just take
> > along the quart of liquid detergent that gets used for ALL cleaning
> > purposes and leave the shampoolets home. I see basketfuls of them for sale
> > at yard sales, and nobody ever buys them...
--
Cheers,
Bev
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
"Only wimps use tape backup; *real* men just upload their
important stuff on FTP, and let the rest of the world
mirror it ;)" -- Linus Torvalds
Bev
>
> x-no-archive: yes
> >From having once worked in a hotel, I can tell you that desk clerks
> >and most managers don't get paid enough to give a fu*k whether or not
> >you took the toilet paper (or the toilet itself for that matter);
> >especially in the myriad of "economy," hotels that are littering the
> >landscape now-a-days.
> underpaid, is acting as an agent that represents the hotel, and his
> actions are binding. Unless you *know* that he is violating company
> policy (like offering you the TV and bed in the room), you are in the
> clear if he tells you the toiletries may be taken with you.
Oh fine, salve your conscience by laying the guilt on some hapless
minimum-wage droid who's just trying to keep body and soul together with a
job that could only be crappier if he actually had to clean the rooms too.
I say either steal the damn toilet paper honestly or get written
permission from the owner or chairman of the board, whichever is easier to
find.
Bev
>
> Bev wrote in message <38F387A0...@ktb.net>...
> >Ray wrote:
> >>
> >> Excellent point, Elaine. Doesn't a sense of personal pride enter into
> this? Most
> >> people won't stoop down to pick up a penny off the ground because it
> would
> >> embarrass them. Regardless of whether it's "permitted" or "expected," I
> still
> >> would feel that making off with a roll of toilet paper is even more
> demeaning
> >> than picking up a penny. Yes, maybe they don't know you're doing it, but
> You
> >> know.
> >
>
> foil, cans, bottles, or pieces of wood. Although technically if one were to
> collect enough of any of the above materials, they'd be worth having.
I used to pick up aluminum cans on our bike rides, and eventually saved
enough to buy a beautiful new Miyata 916 bike in new condition for $25 at a
yard sale while making our community just a bit cleaner. Eventually I
stopped -- I got tired of the smell from the stale beer and fermented soda
and having to wash my cloth bar-bag out and just in general stop, get off
the bike, smash the can...
I never felt demeaned, though, which is what I found curious. The jerk is
too proud to bend over and pick up something useful? How about the
nearly-new Gerber multi-tool I found. Would he have been too proud to pick
that up? Or the Channellock pliers? Or the $10 bill? Just seems like
misplaced 'personal pride' and I reserve the right to make fun of him.
> There's penny wise and pound foolish. I try to be pound wise. My mom and
> aunt are of the pick up every penny and every coke can sort. Now, my aunt
> also drinks like a fish, and didn't have any business sense. She felt
> certain that if she kept saving pennies, greenstamps, and coke cans, that
> some day she'd be wealthy. This was when she was 65 years old. So I asked
> her, "exactly when is that day going to arrive? You've been picking up
> pennies and cans for years, and still can barely afford your liquor."
> She didn't have a clear answer, but was unwilling to change her ways. I
> could live with it.
Yeah, she clearly had a reality problem along with the drinking problem.
But it takes only a few seconds to bend over and pick up a coin, and you
can spend it next time you go to the market. Big deal, but free is still
free, and it's exercise that people sometimes actually PAY to get.
--
Cheers,
Bev
-----------------------------------------
There's something wrong with my keyboard.
Whenever I type x I get x.
Mesas
Theresa (sorry--once a proofreader, always a proofreader. Draw no
conclusions from my own typing!)
Theresa
suzn <su...@southwesternbell.net> wrote:
> "Ray" <r@go__away.com> wrote in message
> news:38F3796C.780DFDB1@go__away.com...
> > Excellent point, Elaine. Doesn't a sense of personal pride enter into
> this? Most
> > people won't stoop down to pick up a penny off the ground because it would
> > embarrass them. Regardless of whether it's "permitted" or "expected," I
> still
> > would feel that making off with a roll of toilet paper is even more
> demeaning
> > than picking up a penny. Yes, maybe they don't know you're doing it, but
> You
> > know.
>
>
> Oh I dont know Ray....was I demeaning when I stooped and picked up a penny
> off the side walk that was dated 1935? I have no idea how much that penny
> is worth (not a coin collector myself) but I am sure its worth more than
> one cent.....it had to be the most embarrassing day of my life.......
--
Theresa mesa...@earthlink.net
Joel M. Eichen
>The sidewalk was dated 1935? ;-) <VBG>
Yeh it was due for a repaving soon.
Elaine Gallant
this? Most
>> people won't stoop down to pick up a penny off the ground because it
would
>> embarrass them. Regardless of whether it's "permitted" or "expected," I
still
>> would feel that making off with a roll of toilet paper is even more
demeaning
>> than picking up a penny. Yes, maybe they don't know you're doing it, but
You
>> know.
>
Penny just isn't really money. Neither do I stop to pick up wads of aluminum
foil, cans, bottles, or pieces of wood. Although technically if one were to
collect enough of any of the above materials, they'd be worth having.
Well, what
>*would* it cost to get you to bend over? A quarter? A $5 bill? What
>other harmless, legal and marginally productive tasks are you too good to
>do? Would you hire somebody else to do them? Somebody figured out how
>much it would cost Bill Gates to pick up the spare change in his path and
>determined that he would be much better off financially hiring people at
>top-level executive salaries to do it for him. Are you in that class?
>Which one?
Elaine Gallant
Bev wrote in message <38F3D7E4...@ktb.net>...
>I never felt demeaned, though, which is what I found curious. The jerk is
>too proud to bend over and pick up something useful? How about the
>nearly-new Gerber multi-tool I found. Would he have been too proud to pick
>that up? Or the Channellock pliers?
Oh...you found my channel-locks? :)
> Or the $10 bill? Just seems like
>misplaced 'personal pride' and I reserve the right to make fun of him.
I got over the reluctance to seem cheap a long time ago. Now, I'll ask
someone outright if they mind if I dig through their toss-out pile. Most
times, they don't mind a bit, and I can pick up some stories about the stuff
they're tossing.
Fi...@webtv.net
He is a meter reader for our local electric company and is constantly
finding coins and bills.
We've been going to a lot of baseball games and you'd be amazed at what
you can find that people leave behind (besides money)!
When we take his son to the games, we play a game in the parking lot as
well to see how many coins we can find - lots.
So far for this year we have found over $100.
I'd say every penny, etc., is worth bending for. Find it too hard -
take up Yoga!
FIDYL
S. Fla.
Live Simply So That
Others May Simply Live
Elaine Gallant
Fi...@webtv.net wrote in message
<22311-38...@storefull-271.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
I'd say every penny, etc., is worth bending for. Find it too hard -
take up Yoga!
I'll send you every penny I find if you pay the postage.
val189
me. It's there in case you run out, but taking it home? I'm sure the
rates are not meant to include a roll of t.t. Why not take down the
curtains and make place mats with them when you get home... maybe even
tear up a piece of the carpet for a doormat...
I still Cringe when I think of the girl who asked in a restaurant for a
large paper bag into which she deposted all the rolls left on the
table in baskets. It was a group of twelve people who'd gone out dutch.
She wouldn't even chip in on a Christmas gift for the boss. She always
said she wanted to give her own gift. Then she's show up with some
Avon samples as her gift (she was a distributor.) She should write the
book on stinginess - she'd be even richer.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
SalHemings
thousands of them in dumpster diving. When folks move, they dump all of them.
:-)
Shampoo is something else I have not had to purchase in years......Although I'm
VERY tempted to buy some expensive shampoo that I got as a sample when I
ordered something else. Maybe....
Mary
Changing Lives Through Dumpster Diving
"If you paid, you paid too much."
Ray
make me a jerk? What I said was that stealing a roll of toilet paper from a hotel
was too demeaning and would hurt my pride, and if one could rank things on a scale
of "demeaningness," it would get a worse rating than picking up a penny, which is
already something that most people do not want to do. The element of personal
pride enters into it, not because of the value of the object but because one is
taking something that belongs to something else.
Ray
Paul D.
>And then you will have permission, and have no need to find reasons to
>justify your actions.
Fine, and as I said, the spam in a can behind the desk won't give a
fuck what you do in regards to toilet paper.
>>BTW, I wouldn't advise asking if you can take the bed or the TV,
>>though. The clerk will probablly cover their ass by calling the law if
>>you indicate you are going to steal something expensive.
>In my experience, thiefs never advertise their intentions by ASKING
>FIRST, so I don't see that in any way as indicating intent to steal.
>BTW, just who is "the law" and what are they going to do about someone
>who ASKED A QUESTION? Code 3? Lights and sirens?
Go back and read where I said "COVER THEIR ASS!" Your suggestion of
lights and sirens is stupid. By calling the law, there is an incident
report on file with the Police and if the TV dissappears, it is on
record that the clerk said no when the thief asked permission to take
the tv. Unless you have worked in a motel, you don't realize what the
staff (especially the desk staff) have to take from management and
that is inaddition to what they have to take from self righetous
jack-asses like you called "guests."
** PLONK **
--
Paul D.
"...and with all due respect:
SCREW YOU!!!!!!"
Art Bell, 02/08-09/2000
Bev
> >nearly-new Gerber multi-tool I found. Would he have been too proud to pick
> >that up? Or the Channellock pliers?
>
> Oh...you found my channel-locks? :)
HAH! If they were really yours you'd know how to spell it!
> > Or the $10 bill? Just seems like
> >misplaced 'personal pride' and I reserve the right to make fun of him.
>
> I got over the reluctance to seem cheap a long time ago. Now, I'll ask
> someone outright if they mind if I dig through their toss-out pile. Most
> times, they don't mind a bit, and I can pick up some stories about the stuff
> they're tossing.
It was fun at work to brag about the cheap stuff I got, much to the
annoyance of people who had their Rolex stories stepped on :-) "Jeez, you
spent THAT much on a thing like that?" and shake your head in disbelief...
My lawyer friend and I frequently go out on trash day and pick the slicks
out of the recyclables. If the trash cops object, I'll be happy to pay
them double the going rate for scrap paper.
--
Cheers,
Bev
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The way England treats her prisoners, she doesn't
deserve to have any." --Oscar Wilde
Bev
>
> Where did I say I was too proud to pick up a penny?
=====================================================================
"Excellent point, Elaine. Doesn't a sense of personal pride enter into
this? Most people won't stoop down to pick up a penny off the ground
because it would embarrass them. Regardless of whether it's "permitted" or
"expected," I still would feel that making off with a roll of toilet paper
is even more demeaning than picking up a penny. Yes, maybe they don't know
you're doing it, but You know.
--
Ray
Who to send e-mail responses to: megalosaurus
Where to send them att.net
======================================================================
I think that means you're too proud to pick up a penny.
> Even if I did, how does that
> make me a jerk?
By definition.
> What I said was that stealing a roll of toilet paper from a hotel
> was too demeaning and would hurt my pride, and if one could rank things on a scale
> of "demeaningness," it would get a worse rating than picking up a penny, which is
> already something that most people do not want to do. The element of personal
> pride enters into it, not because of the value of the object but because one is
> taking something that belongs to something else.
Stealing is one thing, and picking up a penny is something else. You think
that stealing TP is more demeaning than picking up a penny, which implies
pretty clearly that picking up a penny has some amount of demeaningness,
and that makes you a jerk.
If you REALLY want to discuss the concept of 'demeaning,' how do you feel
about fighting the homeless buy for the penny you both reached for at the
same time?
> Bev wrote:
>
> > I never felt demeaned, though, which is what I found curious. The jerk is
> > too proud to bend over and pick up something useful?
--
Bev
>
> x-no-archive: yes
> >Oh fine, salve your conscience by laying the guilt on some hapless
> >minimum-wage droid who's just trying to keep body and soul together
> paper and was trying to find ways to justify it. I proposed a simple
> resolution - just ask.
Generally a good idea. However, if you ask one of the tellers if you can
go get all the money out of the safe and take it home with you and she says
"As far as I'm concerned, you can," does that mean it's OK to do it? You
have to find somebody who has the authority to make the decision, which the
droid clearly does not. What if he said you could take the terrycloth
robe? Would that then not be stealing?
> >I say either steal the damn toilet paper honestly
> Either you missed an emoticon or revealed your true morals.
Jeez, do you NEED a smiley? You find nothing humorous in the concept of
honest theft? Not hilarity, but just slight irony...
> >or get written permission from the owner or chairman of the board
> Do you practice that approach every time you want to know a company's
> policy on something?
If I needed to go that high, yes. Mostly it's not necessary.
cindy
paradoxymoron <parado...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:FJ9J4.5934$D7.1...@news.itd.umich.edu...
> "cindy" <jpu...@pitton.com> wrote:
>
>
> >Ken M. <pobo...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> >news:38F348F2...@ix.netcom.com...
>
> >> But nobody expects or justifies stealing towels, sheets, blankets or
> >> telephones....they can be expensive to replace, and you are right, the
> >> cost gets passed on to the consumer.
>
> >And in some cases the original pilferer. We stayed in a really nice place
> >with another couple one time. The rooms came supplied with these
gorgeous
> >terrycloth robes. Try as I might, I could not convince the other woman
that
> >those robes were not to be taken. She took one. On her next charge card
> >bill was a charge for $150. She was outraged. She also had to pay it.
>
> >Cindy
>
> Biiiiig fat Nelson from the Simpsons "Ha ha!"
>
> pdm
> whutta dummass
>
>
>
LOL
bberger
paper with a full roll anyway. In that sense, taking the
partially used roll is not stealing - not from the hotel
anyway. In actual fact, however, the maids collect all these
half rolls and take them home and distribute what their own
families cannot use to the poor whom they know. If you take it,
you are taking something valuable that would otherwise be used
by someone who is barely managing to survive economically. They
are never just thrown away.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
paradoxymoron
Daniel
toilet paper and replace it for the next guest.
So it is okay to take the roll of toilet paper when you leave. Waste not,
want not!
"Mesas" <mesa...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1e8x7ha.wb...@pool0400.cvx35-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net...
> I think the only way it's okay to take toilet paper out of a hotel is if
> it's stuck to the bottom of your shoe.
>
> Theresa
>
>
>
> --
> Theresa mesa...@earthlink.net
Henry
In all hotels that I have ever stayed in, mostly places
like Best Western, they always have partially used
rolls of tp.
Melodi in VA
Stan Brown
>DH works for the Hilton and says they usually throw away the 'used' roll of
>toilet paper and replace it for the next guest.
At best, his experience does not reflect the general run of hotels.
At worst, he's making it up.
When I check into hotels or motels, I see rolls of toilet paper of
various diameters. Clearly they have *not* been thrown out when the
room was made up after the previous guest checked out.
>So it is okay to take the roll of toilet paper when you leave. Waste not,
>want not!
You're using "DH"'s article as a rationalization to steal.
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cleveland, Ohio, USA
http://www.mindspring.com/~brahms/
My reply address is correct as is. The courtesy of providing a correct
reply address is more important to me than time spent deleting spam.
suzn
"Stan Brown" <bra...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.135fa5c3e...@news.mindspring.com...
> Said dpot...@netzero.net (Daniel) in misc.consumers:
> >DH works for the Hilton and says they usually throw away the 'used' roll
of
> >toilet paper and replace it for the next guest.
>
> At best, his experience does not reflect the general run of hotels.
> At worst, he's making it up.
*****Excuse me, but he happens to be my son in law and he isnt making it
up......
> When I check into hotels or motels, I see rolls of toilet paper of
> various diameters. Clearly they have *not* been thrown out when the
> room was made up after the previous guest checked out.
*****Perhaps many hotels do things differently.....have you ever been to the
Hilton where he works?
> >So it is okay to take the roll of toilet paper when you leave. Waste
not,
> >want not!
>
> You're using "DH"'s article as a rationalization to steal.
*****She isnt stealing anything.....just telling you how it works at this
hotel....
nixieguy
I generally ask the hotel maid what I can and cannot have.
She is usually a she, and she has a cart on wheels that rolls
down the hall. She has all the extras if you want more.....ask
for another roll of toiletpaper, or ask if you can have an ash
tray to take home.
Ask if you can take one of the bath towels or a bath mat....or
ask if you can take the Gideon Bible.....they have replacements
for everything.
It is like on an airliner and you get a meal.....can the passenger
keep the dishes...they are so cute, or can we keep the utensils...
they are so darling......ask the stewardess, she is usually a she,
and she will tell you....usually they dont keep track, and if you
want the set..keep it......
As well as for eating in a fast food restaurant....they make
you pay for everything.....it is all in the cost of the meal.
The straw may be free, and the other five you take are probably free
as well, and the cup...that the coke is in .... whose is that?
I wonder about the tray, the food is on......can I take that
home as well......I need a few trays around my house, I could use
one in the car.....It doesnt say...do not remove from the premises.
It often has a Logo on it just like the other stuff.....the paper the
burger is wrapped in....whose it that? I can throw it away...it must be
mine......can I throw away the tray.....most fastfood places, the
trash hole is too small for a tray......tho when it isnt......I like
tossing it in the trash......then....do THEY reuse that tray......wash
it for the next person......I dont think so......so is it my tray or
what???? Did I pay for that tray when I paid for my meal....I paid
for the paper sack.
I am not too cheap to buy my own trays......I just think we customers
are paying for them, and the fastfood managers are laughing all the way
to the bank, because they are getting them back every time. for nothing.
The tray is the only item that gets recycled.
bye......
Toilet paper has to be cheaper than a newspaper....
nixieguy
f...@yeahoo.com wrote:
> Who told you that toilet paper is expected to be taken? I think this
> is low. It is theft, albeit very petty.
>
> On Tue, 11 Apr 2000 03:44:51 -0400, "Ken M." <pobo...@ix.netcom.com>
>
> >Toilet paper, pens, and soap are expected to be taken.
> >
> >(ken)
WELL THE MAID HAS THEM ON HER CART READY TO REPLACE ALL THAT
STUFF.
Toilet paper is a commodity...and you are stealing it when you
wipe your butte. Are you stealing the water if you let the water
run while you brush your teeth?
There isnt much really available to take in a hotel room.....if
there is a problem, the hotel will bill you or your credit card.
really grow up.
I like to strip the bed of bedding and have it in a pile
for the housekeeper. And I like to leave a $5 tip in appreciation
of having a nice room to stay in.
frugal doesnt mean cheap.
It means spending wisely.
bye
Joel M. Eichen
>Hotels souveneers......
>I generally ask the hotel maid what I can and cannot have.
>She is usually a she, and she has a cart on wheels that rolls
>down the hall. She has all the extras if you want more.....ask
>for another roll of toiletpaper, or ask if you can have an ash
>tray to take home.
>Ask if you can take one of the bath towels or a bath mat....or
>ask if you can take the Gideon Bible.....they have replacements
>for everything.
I took the dresser and the TV.
>It is like on an airliner and you get a meal.....can the passenger
>keep the dishes...they are so cute, or can we keep the utensils...
>they are so darling......ask the stewardess, she is usually a she,
>and she will tell you....usually they dont keep track, and if you
>want the set..keep it......
I ripped the toilet out the the compartment.
>As well as for eating in a fast food restaurant....they make
>you pay for everything.....it is all in the cost of the meal.
>The straw may be free, and the other five you take are probably free
>as well, and the cup...that the coke is in .... whose is that?
>I wonder about the tray, the food is on......can I take that
>home as well......I need a few trays around my house, I could use
>one in the car.....It doesnt say...do not remove from the premises.
>It often has a Logo on it just like the other stuff.....the paper the
>burger is wrapped in....whose it that? I can throw it away...it must be
>mine......can I throw away the tray.....most fastfood places, the
>trash hole is too small for a tray......tho when it isnt......I like
>tossing it in the trash......then....do THEY reuse that tray......wash
>it for the next person......I dont think so......so is it my tray or
>what???? Did I pay for that tray when I paid for my meal....I paid
>for the paper sack.
Does anyone take a couple of fluorescent bulbs when they leave?
>I am not too cheap to buy my own trays......I just think we customers
>are paying for them, and the fastfood managers are laughing all the way
>to the bank, because they are getting them back every time. for nothing.
Including the burgers . . . .
>The tray is the only item that gets recycled.
Burgers.
>bye......
>Toilet paper has to be cheaper than a newspaper....
Softer too.
Daniel
toilet paper tales. Sheesh.
ANYWAY, the hotel he works at if an executive suites hotel. VERY ritzy,
200$ per night kind of hotel. So they are really picky about things like
that. The TP they put on the rolls has paper wrapped around it and that is
how they place it on the roll. So the occupant has to remove the paper
before using the TP. I guess so they know it is new? Seems like a big
waste to me but what can I do?
"Stan Brown" <bra...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.135fa5c3e...@news.mindspring.com...
> Said dpot...@netzero.net (Daniel) in misc.consumers:
> >DH works for the Hilton and says they usually throw away the 'used' roll
of
> >toilet paper and replace it for the next guest.
>
> At best, his experience does not reflect the general run of hotels.
> At worst, he's making it up.
>
> When I check into hotels or motels, I see rolls of toilet paper of
> various diameters. Clearly they have *not* been thrown out when the
> room was made up after the previous guest checked out.
>
> >So it is okay to take the roll of toilet paper when you leave. Waste
not,
> >want not!
>
> You're using "DH"'s article as a rationalization to steal.
>
Joel M. Eichen
>Sorry but he has MUCH better things to do than to go around 'making up'
>toilet paper tales. Sheesh.
>ANYWAY, the hotel he works at if an executive suites hotel. VERY ritzy,
>200$ per night kind of hotel. So they are really picky about things like
>that. The TP they put on the rolls has paper wrapped around it and that is
>how they place it on the roll. So the occupant has to remove the paper
>before using the TP. I guess so they know it is new? Seems like a big
>waste to me but what can I do?
Avoid vegetables and roughage for three days?
Stan Brown
>"Stan Brown" <bra...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>news:MPG.135fa5c3e...@news.mindspring.com...
>> Said dpot...@netzero.net (Daniel) in misc.consumers:
>> >DH works for the Hilton and says they usually throw away the 'used' roll
> >>of toilet paper and replace it for the next guest.
>>
>> At best, his experience does not reflect the general run of hotels.
>> At worst, he's making it up.
Said dpot...@netzero.net (Daniel) in misc.consumers:
>Sorry but he has MUCH better things to do than to go around 'making up'
>toilet paper tales. Sheesh.
Do learn to read for content. If his story is true of that
particular hotel, it is not true of all or even of most.
>ANYWAY, the hotel he works at if an executive suites hotel. VERY ritzy,
>200$ per night kind of hotel.
As I said, "does not reflect the general run of hotels". Somehow I
find it hard to believe that someone paying $200 a night for a
hotel room would even consider taking the toilet paper home.
Most hotel stays by us folks will not be in the $200 a night range,
but at more normal places where a partial roll of toilet paper is
not going to be discarded, and taking it is stealing.
Cissy . Thorpe
On Thu, 13 Apr 2000, suzn wrote:
> *****She isnt stealing anything.....just telling you how it works at this
> hotel....
Last time I looked, if you take something that isn't yours, you didn't pay
for, didn't ask for, was not explicitly given to you or was not in the
trash (I mean dumpster type)...that's stealing.
My 2p
Cissy
Alan Bell
news:Pine.GSO.4.21.000414...@lonestar.jpl.utsa.edu...
1. There are things in hotels that people assume it is okay to use while in
the room or take with them when they go, whether they are unused or not.
These things include stationery, pads, pens, little shampoos and little
lotions. That is it okay to take these things on exit is sometimes
explicitly stated, but most of the time an unstated assumption on the part
of the occupant. If occupants take these things, the hotel is not upset. If
the maid (or indeed the hotel manager) saw an occupant take one of these
things they wouldn't say anything or intervene. When occupants take these
things, no one thinks they are stealing.
2. There are other things in hotel rooms that people aren't supposed to take
on exit. These include towels, sheets, TV sets, bathrobes, Gideon Bibles and
furniture. That is it not okay to take these things on exit is sometimes
explicitly stated, but most of the time an unstated assumption on the part
of the occupant. If someone does take these things, that would be considered
stealing and the hotel would be upset. If the maid (or the hotel manager)
saw an occupant take one of these things they might say something, intervene
or report the incident to other authorities. When occupants take these
things, all in charge call it stealing.
3. In the case of toilet paper, there is an assumption, that most people
share, that it is to be used in the hotel room while the person is an
occupant. It is not expected that the incomplete roll or the unused roll
will be taken on exit. However, if occupants take these things, the hotel is
not upset. If the maid (or indeed the hotel manager) saw an occupant take a
roll of toilet paper they wouldn't say anything or intervene.
Therefore:
If hotel occupants take toilet paper on exit, they violate commonly shared
assumptions about what is right and proper, but they do so with the with the
approval of the owner of the toilet paper. I'd say they weren't stealing,
but simply acting in a way that most people consider petty and despicable.
mickey
individuals who usually need some kind of psychiatric help. As
someone that is in business and is sick of being ripped off by
so called customers I feel that Saudi Arabia has the perfect
answer to thieves...amputation of the hands.
If it aint yours, leave it alone. How would you feel about
someone walking into your home or business and just helping him
or herself to your possessions?
The obvious answer would be that you would call the cops, then
kick up sh*t and demand the perpetrator be thrown into jail.
I rest my case.
Mickey
mickey
>
>"Amputation of the hands" for stealing toilet paper? I think
you
>would benefit from psychotherapy.
>
>(ken)
>
In your country Ken there is probably a big lobby for throwing
thieves on death row, not MERLY amputating a few limbs. I
personally have been the victim of three burglaries and two auto
thefts over the last two years; therefore, it may not be
surprising that I might need some counselling.
Ganesha Ganapati
>Cissy . Thorpe <cth...@lonestar.jpl.utsa.edu> wrote in message
>news:Pine.GSO.4.21.000414...@lonestar.jpl.utsa.edu...
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 13 Apr 2000, suzn wrote:
>>
>> > *****She isnt stealing anything.....just telling you how it works at
>this
>> > hotel....
>>
>> Last time I looked, if you take something that isn't yours, you didn't pay
>> for, didn't ask for, was not explicitly given to you or was not in the
>> trash (I mean dumpster type)...that's stealing
>
>1. There are things in hotels that people assume it is okay to use while in
>the room or take with them when they go, whether they are unused or not.
>These things include stationery, pads, pens, little shampoos and little
>lotions. That is it okay to take these things on exit is sometimes
>explicitly stated, but most of the time an unstated assumption on the part
>of the occupant. If occupants take these things, the hotel is not upset. If
>the maid (or indeed the hotel manager) saw an occupant take one of these
>things they wouldn't say anything or intervene. When occupants take these
>things, no one thinks they are stealing.
Of course not. When I paid $200/night for my hotel room, part of my
$200 paid for the little toiletries that were placed in the room. Upon
payment of my bill I now own these items and may do with them as I
please.
>3. In the case of toilet paper, there is an assumption, that most people
>share, that it is to be used in the hotel room while the person is an
>occupant. It is not expected that the incomplete roll or the unused roll
>will be taken on exit.
Why do you make this distinction? Toilet paper, kleenex, little
packets of coffe/sugar/creamer, shampoo, lotion, etc. are all
CONSUMABLES. It makes no difference whether I take a lot of wet,
sloppy dumps and use up all the TP while I am staying in the room, or
I simply take the roll home with me and use it up at a later time?
Either way, I have paid for the entire roll. Personally, I've never
bothered to take a roll of TP with me at checkout, but I see nothing
wrong with anyone doing this. In fact, I would *prefer* it, since it
then FORCES the maid to place a fresh roll, untouched by someone
else's poo-covered fingers, in the holder for me to use.
>If hotel occupants take toilet paper on exit, they violate commonly shared
>assumptions
Seems to me that if they were commonly shared, there would be nobody
arguing about this topic right now. ;-)
Ganesha Ganapati
>People that steal toilet paper from hotel rooms are sad pathetic
>individuals who usually need some kind of psychiatric help. As
>someone that is in business and is sick of being ripped off by
>so called customers I feel that Saudi Arabia has the perfect
>answer to thieves...amputation of the hands.
They also amputate your hands for flaming in USENET newsgroups... ;-)
mickey
>
>They also amputate your hands for flaming in USENET
newsgroups... ;-)
>
>
>
My my is that so. It may be something of a surprise to you but
here in the UK we have freedom of speech.
Aki Damme
feel it proper to take their toilet paper when you leave?
On Fri, 14 Apr 2000 18:35:20 GMT, "Alan Bell" <al...@blk.com> graced
us with the following quip:
>Cissy . Thorpe <cth...@lonestar.jpl.utsa.edu> wrote in message
>news:Pine.GSO.4.21.000414...@lonestar.jpl.utsa.edu...
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 13 Apr 2000, suzn wrote:
>>
>> > *****She isnt stealing anything.....just telling you how it works at
>this
>> > hotel....
>>
>>
>> Last time I looked, if you take something that isn't yours, you didn't pay
>> for, didn't ask for, was not explicitly given to you or was not in the
>> trash (I mean dumpster type)...that's stealing
>
>1. There are things in hotels that people assume it is okay to use while in
>the room or take with them when they go, whether they are unused or not.
>These things include stationery, pads, pens, little shampoos and little
>lotions. That is it okay to take these things on exit is sometimes
>explicitly stated, but most of the time an unstated assumption on the part
>of the occupant. If occupants take these things, the hotel is not upset. If
>the maid (or indeed the hotel manager) saw an occupant take one of these
>things they wouldn't say anything or intervene. When occupants take these
>things, no one thinks they are stealing.
>
>2. There are other things in hotel rooms that people aren't supposed to take
>on exit. These include towels, sheets, TV sets, bathrobes, Gideon Bibles and
>furniture. That is it not okay to take these things on exit is sometimes
>explicitly stated, but most of the time an unstated assumption on the part
>of the occupant. If someone does take these things, that would be considered
>stealing and the hotel would be upset. If the maid (or the hotel manager)
>saw an occupant take one of these things they might say something, intervene
>or report the incident to other authorities. When occupants take these
>things, all in charge call it stealing.
>
>3. In the case of toilet paper, there is an assumption, that most people
>share, that it is to be used in the hotel room while the person is an
>occupant. It is not expected that the incomplete roll or the unused roll
>will be taken on exit. However, if occupants take these things, the hotel is
>not upset. If the maid (or indeed the hotel manager) saw an occupant take a
>roll of toilet paper they wouldn't say anything or intervene.
>
>Therefore:
>
>If hotel occupants take toilet paper on exit, they violate commonly shared
>assumptions about what is right and proper, but they do so with the with the
>approval of the owner of the toilet paper. I'd say they weren't stealing,
>but simply acting in a way that most people consider petty and despicable.
>
>
*****************************************************************************************
"..Who the hell is Aki Van-Damme?!!"
M0...@webtv.net (M0JO)
*****************************************************************************************
Alan Bell
news:<gn2ffss32gqr56d7p...@4ax.com>...
> ..or more simply put, if you were a guest in someones home, would you
> feel it proper to take their toilet paper when you leave?
No, but then we aren't talking about people's homes, are we?
mickey
Damme <aki....@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>...or more simply put, if you were a guest in someones home,
would you
>feel it proper to take their toilet paper when you leave?
>
>
>
No doubt as a result of my comments, I can expect to be accused
of flaming by another moron.
Regards Mickey
mickey
Bell" <al...@blk.com> wrote:
>Aki Damme <aki....@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
>news:<gn2ffss32gqr56d7p...@4ax.com>...
would you
>> feel it proper to take their toilet paper when you leave?
>
>
>
>
So let me get this right Alan...it is alright to steal from a
hotel but not from a friends house!
Alan Bell
mickey <mickeyN...@mickeys.co.uk.invalid> wrote in message
news:1eff6ad0...@usw-ex0105-035.remarq.com...
> So let me get this right Alan...it is alright to steal from a
> hotel but not from a friends house
I don't think I said anything of the kind. Or even implied it. I posted a
rather detailed message about why I thought some might consider taking
toilet paper upon leaving a hotel petty and despicable, and not stealing.
Did you see that message? Do you have a specific reply to the points I
raised in that message?
As for hotels and people's homes, the rules for behavior in those venues are
different. Let me give you examples:
a. I might not make the bed in the morning at a hotel, but I would if I was
staying at someone's home.
b. I might not be careful to clean the tub after a bath at a hotel (if I was
the only person in the room), but I would at someone's home.
I have only listed two, but there are other differences between appropriate
behavior at a hotel and at someone's home. How one handles toilet paper at a
hotel stands or falls on what is appropriate for that venue, not what is
appropriate for someone's home.
Ganesha Ganapati
>..or more simply put, if you were a guest in someones home, would you
>feel it proper to take their toilet paper when you leave?
Do you charge people $200 per night to stay in your home?
If not, how about coming up with a relevant analogy? ;-)
Ganesha Ganapati
>>They also amputate your hands for flaming in USENET
>newsgroups... ;-)
>>
>My my is that so. It may be something of a surprise to you but
>here in the UK we have freedom of speech.
Nobody was talking about the UK. Of course, you (conveniently) failed
to quote that portion of the original post, didn't you? If you can't
make a point without resorting to disingenuous trickery, then you
don't really have a point, do you...
mickey
Bell" <al...@blk.com> wrote:
>
>mickey <mickeyN...@mickeys.co.uk.invalid> wrote in message
>news:1eff6ad0...@usw-ex0105-035.remarq.com...
>> So let me get this right Alan...it is alright to steal from a
>> hotel but not from a friends house
>
>I don't think I said anything of the kind. Or even implied it.
I posted a
>rather detailed message about why I thought some might consider
taking
>toilet paper upon leaving a hotel petty and despicable, and not
stealing.
>Did you see that message? Do you have a specific reply to the
points I
>raised in that message?
>
>>
>
>
>
excuse in this day and age for removing toilet paper from a
hotel room to take home. I certainly would not lower myself to
remove a $0.50 toilet roll from a hotel room, not to mention
going to the trouble to pack it in my suit case.
There ia a clear distinction between dumpster diving, thrift,
frugality and theft.
However, it would appear that Ebenezer Scrooge and his decedents
are alive and well.
Regards mickey
@>-->-->--
"Alan Bell" <al...@blk.com> wrote in message news:IxJJ4.29317> > trash (I
mean dumpster >
> 2. There are other things in hotel rooms that people aren't supposed to
take
> on exit. These include towels, sheets, TV sets, bathrobes, Gideon Bibles
and
> furniture.
I have to disagree about the bibles, my BIL is treasurer of his local
chapter, they want people to read those things and I don't think the Gideons
would consider it stealing if you took it with you with the intention of
reading it.
David Spera
Alan Bell wrote:
> mickey <mickeyN...@mickeys.co.uk.invalid> wrote in message
> news:1eff6ad0...@usw-ex0105-035.remarq.com...
> > So let me get this right Alan...it is alright to steal from a
> > hotel but not from a friends house
>
> I don't think I said anything of the kind. Or even implied it. I posted a
> rather detailed message about why I thought some might consider taking
> toilet paper upon leaving a hotel petty and despicable, and not stealing.
> Did you see that message? Do you have a specific reply to the points I
> raised in that message?
>
> As for hotels and people's homes, the rules for behavior in those venues are
> different. Let me give you examples:
> a. I might not make the bed in the morning at a hotel, but I would if I was
> staying at someone's home.
> b. I might not be careful to clean the tub after a bath at a hotel (if I was
> the only person in the room), but I would at someone's home.
>
> I have only listed two, but there are other differences between appropriate
> behavior at a hotel and at someone's home. How one handles toilet paper at a
> hotel stands or falls on what is appropriate for that venue, not what is
> appropriate for someone's home.
Even Jack Benny would not steal toilet paper. Are you finances that bad?
Ted Lind
A hotel provides consumables in your room for use during your stay at the
hotel, not restocking your home supply. Taking something that you clearly
intended to use later is theft even though minor. I don't mind if you choose
to steal because you know you can get away with it, just don't come back and
try to justify how there is nothing really wrong with it. It is wrong, a
small wrong, but wrong.
The problem with those kinds of slippery ethics becomes the ease into which
you can escalate into something more serious.
Ganesha Ganapati <pri...@nounsolicitedemail.com> wrote in message
news:e45ffs8igtv7s1ikb...@4ax.com...
Nicole'N'Daniel
sheets and swap them out for clean ones too? lol
> >Does anyone take a couple of fluorescent bulbs when they leave?
> You could pack along all your dead light bulbs and swap them out with
> those in the hotel room. Would that be frugal enough for the diehards?
mickey
is quite apparent to me that you cannot read very fast.
Should you take the time to read back through the thread I think
that I did make it clear that I am a not a citizen of the USA.
Now her is another surprise for you, theft is illegal in the UK
as well as the USA. As for the rest of the garbage you spoke
about I am afraid its not even worthy of comment.
Best Wishes from London
For your information thats London in the United Kingdom.
mickey
People that steal from hotels are usually the ones that moan
about the price of the rooms. If it wasnt for all the theft
maybe the cost of the rooms would be cheaper.
Cheers Mickey
Jeff Anderson
other hotels asking them what their policy regarding toilet paper is. Maybe
one of them will be nice enough to answer. I encourage you all to do
likewise. The truth is that the various hotel policies determine whether or
not it is okay to take the toilet paper, not all of your opinions about what
constitutes theft.
mickey
linda-renee
> Even Jack Benny would not steal toilet paper. Are you finances that bad?
If they're that bad, one probably ought not to be spending the night in a
hotel.....
Aki Damme
If you stayed in a BED AND BREAKFAST, would you feel
it proper to take their toilet paper when you leave?
jeez.. ;-)
-aki
On Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:58:39 GMT, Ganesha Ganapati
<pri...@nounsolicitedemail.com> graced us with the following quip:
>Aki Damme <aki....@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>>..or more simply put, if you were a guest in someones home, would you
>>feel it proper to take their toilet paper when you leave?
>
>Do you charge people $200 per night to stay in your home?
>
>If not, how about coming up with a relevant analogy? ;-)
Alan Bell
> Apologies Alan if I have not made myself clear. IMHO there is no
> excuse in this day and age for removing toilet paper from a
> hotel room to take home. I certainly would not lower myself to
> remove a $0.50 toilet roll from a hotel room, not to mention
> going to the trouble to pack it in my suit case.
>
> There ia a clear distinction between dumpster diving, thrift,
> frugality and theft.
>
> However, it would appear that Ebenezer Scrooge and his decedents
> are alive and well.
I know that is your general position. But where people disagree, it's often
useful to reply to specific points raised by the other to see if there can
be a meeting of the minds. Remember, I agree with you that taking toilet
paper is Scrooge-like, and I'll add embarrassing, parsamonious, petty,
despicable and against-the-generally-accepted-rules for hotel-stays. But I
don't see how it can be considered called stealing. I offered my logic on
this point, but although I've gotten some smart-alecky responses, none have
yet addressed the specifics of my logic.
Once again, here is what I wrote, and I would be pleased to have your
specific response:
1. There are things in hotels that people assume it is okay to use while in
the room or take with them when they go, whether they are unused or not.
These things include stationery, pads, pens, little shampoos and little
lotions. That is it okay to take these things on exit is sometimes
explicitly stated, but most of the time an unstated assumption on the part
of the occupant. If occupants take these things, the hotel is not upset. If
the maid (or indeed the hotel manager) saw an occupant take one of these
things they wouldn't say anything or intervene. When occupants take these
things, no one thinks they are stealing.
2. There are other things in hotel rooms that people aren't supposed to take
on exit. These include towels, sheets, TV sets, bathrobes, Gideon Bibles and
Alan Bell
> ok how about...
>
> If you stayed in a BED AND BREAKFAST, would you feel
> it proper to take their toilet paper when you leave
The commonly accepted rules for bed-and-breakfasts and for hotels are
different. For instance, people take liquor and go to hotels for
assignations leaving liquor bottles and condoms on the floor and that is
"acceptable" behavior in a hotel. But it is hardly acceptable in a B&B. It
would seem to me that how one handles toilet paper at a hotel stands or
falls on what is appropriate for that venue, not what is appropriate for a
B&B.
Specifically, at a B&B, the consumables aren't just for your use, but for
all the people in the B&B. In a hotel room, the consumables are there solely
for the occupants of the room.
pc...@ludl.tds.net
> There ia a clear distinction between dumpster diving, thrift,
> frugality and theft.
>
> However, it would appear that Ebenezer Scrooge and his decedents
> are alive and well.
The hotel industry usually treats the owners well and the help poorly.
Take the shampoos, soaps, etc. But, leave the paper products behind.
Those are the 'used' things that an employee can usually take home
without being accused of stealing.
So, just let them have the stuff.
And be nice to desk and office staff. They are usually the ones who are
treated like sh*t by the public. And they don't even get to take toilet
paper home.
PC
Joel M. Eichen
>..or more simply put, if you were a guest in someones home, would you
>feel it proper to take their toilet paper when you leave?
I always do that just as I arrive, only to put the kabash on the other
guests.
>On Fri, 14 Apr 2000 18:35:20 GMT, "Alan Bell" <al...@blk.com> graced
>us with the following quip:
>>Cissy . Thorpe <cth...@lonestar.jpl.utsa.edu> wrote in message
>>news:Pine.GSO.4.21.000414...@lonestar.jpl.utsa.edu...
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, 13 Apr 2000, suzn wrote:
>>>
>>> > *****She isnt stealing anything.....just telling you how it works at
>>this
>>> > hotel....
>>>
>>>
>>> Last time I looked, if you take something that isn't yours, you didn't pay
>>> for, didn't ask for, was not explicitly given to you or was not in the
>>> trash (I mean dumpster type)...that's stealing
>>
Jeff Anderson
They'd freeload off their friends or sleep on the street. Isn't there an
alt.evil.steal.toilet-paper.now newsgroup or
alt.poverty.cannot-afford-toilet-paper? If you want real cheap toilet
paper, just steal it from the bathroom at your local McDonalds. Or pull a
nice little armed robbery on your local 7-11. Don't rent a room for $50+.
misc.thieves.frugal-living. alt.toilet-paper.armed-robbery. Actually,
truly frugal people would use leaves, bark, old newspapers and junk. Ouch!
I prefer Charmin Ultra. I think in the long run, if you use sandpaper on
your butt for too long, the resulting medical expenses will far outweigh any
perceived savings from buying/stealing cheap/free toilet paper.
"linda-renee" <lindarenee*ilovekellyanne*@5catsmindspring.com> wrote in
message news:8d87j9$hti$1...@slb3.atl.mindspring.net...
suzn
"Cissy . Thorpe" <cth...@lonestar.jpl.utsa.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.21.000414...@lonestar.jpl.utsa.edu...
>
>
> On Thu, 13 Apr 2000, suzn wrote:
>
> > *****She isnt stealing anything.....just telling you how it works at
this
> > hotel....
>
>
> Last time I looked, if you take something that isn't yours, you didn't pay
> for, didn't ask for, was not explicitly given to you or was not in the
>
> My 2p
> Cissy
Yes you are correct and I wasnt saying it was ok to take something that
doesnt belong to you. Again, *SHE* isnt stealing anything....the person I
was referring to (who WASNT) stealing TP was replying about the hotel her
husband works at, not that she steals TP from hotels.
suzn
"@>-->-->--" <kevins...@yahooPOCMAPS.com> wrote in message
news:sff6ei...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> I have to disagree about the bibles, my BIL is treasurer of his local
> chapter, they want people to read those things and I don't think the
Gideons
> would consider it stealing if you took it with you with the intention of
> reading it.
Taking TP is bad enough, but taking a bible? Now thats really low....
Ted Lind
category. This is the gray area category. I think the hotel manager might be
upset but not enough to make it worth causing a scene. Even though something
is improper, people have a threshold where a wrong is not enough to cause
unpleasantness. In this category I think hotel management and staff may let
the person get away with it but would not consider it proper.
Alan Bell <al...@blk.com> wrote in message
news:%GNJ4.29526$JE2.1...@typhoon.we.rr.com...
> Mickey <mickeyN...@mickeys.co.uk.invalid> wrote in message
> news:2107ab44...@usw-ex0105-035.remarq.com...
>
> > Apologies Alan if I have not made myself clear. IMHO there is no
> > excuse in this day and age for removing toilet paper from a
> > hotel room to take home. I certainly would not lower myself to
> > remove a $0.50 toilet roll from a hotel room, not to mention
> > going to the trouble to pack it in my suit case.
> >
> > There ia a clear distinction between dumpster diving, thrift,
> > frugality and theft.
> >
> > However, it would appear that Ebenezer Scrooge and his decedents
> > are alive and well.
>
> I know that is your general position. But where people disagree, it's
often
> useful to reply to specific points raised by the other to see if there can
> be a meeting of the minds. Remember, I agree with you that taking toilet
> paper is Scrooge-like, and I'll add embarrassing, parsamonious, petty,
> despicable and against-the-generally-accepted-rules for hotel-stays. But I
> don't see how it can be considered called stealing. I offered my logic on
> this point, but although I've gotten some smart-alecky responses, none
have
> yet addressed the specifics of my logic.
>
> Once again, here is what I wrote, and I would be pleased to have your
> specific response:
>
Bob Ward
>Aki Damme <aki....@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
>news:409ffs4q8b3b8lpss...@4ax.com...
>> ok how about...
>>
>> If you stayed in a BED AND BREAKFAST, would you feel
>> it proper to take their toilet paper when you leave
>
>The commonly accepted rules for bed-and-breakfasts and for hotels are
>different. For instance, people take liquor and go to hotels for
>assignations leaving liquor bottles and condoms on the floor and that is
>"acceptable" behavior in a hotel. But it is hardly acceptable in a B&B. It
>would seem to me that how one handles toilet paper at a hotel stands or
>falls on what is appropriate for that venue, not what is appropriate for a
>B&B.
>
Sorry, but leaving liquor bottles and condoms on the floor is NOT
acceptable behavior anywhere in the civilized world. You may choose
to live that way at home, but it is not acceptable elsewhere.
Alan Bell
news:rgqffsca9qq0sfb2s...@4ax.com...
> Sorry, but leaving liquor bottles and condoms on the floor is NOT
> acceptable behavior anywhere in the civilized world. You may choose
> to live that way at home, but it is not acceptable elsewhere.
Personally, I agree with you. But I would love to hear from hotel personnel
who may be reading these messages. I've bet that such behavior, while not
applauded, is common.
Jean Judge
We had a older woman come from I believe it was Germany (cant remember exact
country) but in their country the TP is very expensive.
She visited our City about 4 times a year to go to the Mayo Clinic.
Anyways, she would tell the maid/housekeeper every day to leave 2 rolls of
TP, after we all left, she would call up the front desk, and demand to have
some TP delivered (housekeeper never left any) So on average she got 4 rolls
per day. She would actually get boxes and ship the TP over to her country.
We had the biggest laugh about that lady but never screamed thief.
Alan Bell <al...@blk.com> wrote in message
news:IxJJ4.29317$JE2.1...@typhoon.we.rr.com...
> Cissy . Thorpe <cth...@lonestar.jpl.utsa.edu> wrote in message
> news:Pine.GSO.4.21.000414...@lonestar.jpl.utsa.edu...
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 13 Apr 2000, suzn wrote:
> >
> > > *****She isnt stealing anything.....just telling you how it works at
> this
> > > hotel....
> >
> >
> > Last time I looked, if you take something that isn't yours, you didn't
pay
> > for, didn't ask for, was not explicitly given to you or was not in the
> > trash (I mean dumpster type)...that's stealing
>
Vivian Walker
ago. There was a two hour delay while we waited for the room to be
cleaned. When we walked in we found out why. Apparently the last
occupant had been on a binge and had gotten sick. He made no attempt to
clean it or to call Housekeeping. Although the hotel had tried very
hard, the room really was not occupiable. We were moved to another room.
While waiting,we chatted with the housekeeping supervisor. This is an
upscale resort, but it does cater to convention business. The stories
she told of the messes they clean up were disgusting.
For those of you who have read the Amy D books and newsletter, it
reminds me of her argument for buying sheets used. She said why would
anyone who sleeps in a hotel ever balk at buying used sheets? Who knows
what the last occupant of your hotel room did in the room?
Viv
Stan Brown
>Taking TP is bad enough, but taking a bible? Now thats really low....
I always thought the Gideons figured that anyone who would take one
of their Bibles probably needs it.
Does anyone actually open up a Gideon Bible in a motel room and
read it?
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cleveland, Ohio, USA
http://www.mindspring.com/~brahms/
My reply address is correct as is. The courtesy of providing a correct
reply address is more important to me than time spent deleting spam.
Mesas
> Mickey <mickeyN...@mickeys.co.uk.invalid> wrote in message
> news:2107ab44...@usw-ex0105-035.remarq.com...
>
> > Apologies Alan if I have not made myself clear. IMHO there is no
> > excuse in this day and age for removing toilet paper from a
> > hotel room to take home. I certainly would not lower myself to
> > remove a $0.50 toilet roll from a hotel room, not to mention
> > going to the trouble to pack it in my suit case.
> >
> > There ia a clear distinction between dumpster diving, thrift,
> > frugality and theft.
> >
> > However, it would appear that Ebenezer Scrooge and his decedents
> > are alive and well.
>
<Giggle> I'm sure you meant, "Ebenezer Scrooge and his descendents." A
decedent is a dead person, so your sentence read, "Ebenezer Scrooge and
his dead persons are alive and well."
LOL!
--
Theresa mesa...@earthlink.net
Lech K. Lesiak
> Last time I looked, if you take something that isn't yours, you didn't pay
> for, didn't ask for, was not explicitly given to you or was not in the
> trash (I mean dumpster type)...that's stealing.
I don't think the rules on stealing in North America are quite that tight.
If I stop at a McDonald's and take a paper towel out of the washroom to
clean my tailights is that stealing?
Cheers,
Lech
Ted Lind
a couple of six packs to ship back. The fat she traveled from Germany to
the Mayo Clinic meant there is a good chance she could afford it but was
used to being frugal (cheap). I would not scream thief either, she was a
regular customer and the cost of the TP was easily absorbed in the profit
from her stay which was probably several days at least.
It is still stealing and misrepresentation but it is a relatively minor
infraction that does little real harm.
Jean Judge <va...@hbci.com> wrote in message
news:8d90p...@enews2.newsguy.com...
> Believe it or not. I was a housekeeper at a motel about 12 years ago.
> We had a older woman come from I believe it was Germany (cant remember
exact
> country) but in their country the TP is very expensive.
> She visited our City about 4 times a year to go to the Mayo Clinic.
> Anyways, she would tell the maid/housekeeper every day to leave 2 rolls of
> TP, after we all left, she would call up the front desk, and demand to
have
> some TP delivered (housekeeper never left any) So on average she got 4
rolls
> per day. She would actually get boxes and ship the TP over to her country.
> We had the biggest laugh about that lady but never screamed thief.
>
> Alan Bell <al...@blk.com> wrote in message
> news:IxJJ4.29317$JE2.1...@typhoon.we.rr.com...
> > Cissy . Thorpe <cth...@lonestar.jpl.utsa.edu> wrote in message
> > news:Pine.GSO.4.21.000414...@lonestar.jpl.utsa.edu...
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, 13 Apr 2000, suzn wrote:
> > >
> > > > *****She isnt stealing anything.....just telling you how it works at
> > this
> > > > hotel....
> > >
> > >
> > > Last time I looked, if you take something that isn't yours, you didn't
> pay
> > > for, didn't ask for, was not explicitly given to you or was not in the
Ted Lind
subsisting on social security were noticeably not frugal in their youth.
Jim Dompier <moku...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1361a70aa...@news.lava.net...
> In article <8d5gaa$ep4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, nixi...@my-deja.com
> says...
> > frugal doesnt mean cheap.
> > It means spending wisely.
> > bye
>
>
> It also doesn't mean Anal.
>
>
> --
> Jim Dompier
Aki Damme
in a McDonalds is a capital offence in most states... ;-)
-aki
On Sat, 15 Apr 2000 09:19:27 -0600, "Lech K. Lesiak"
<lkle...@calcna.ab.ca> graced us with the following quip:
>On Fri, 14 Apr 2000, Cissy . Thorpe wrote:
>
>> Last time I looked, if you take something that isn't yours, you didn't pay
>> for, didn't ask for, was not explicitly given to you or was not in the
>> trash (I mean dumpster type)...that's stealing.
>
>I don't think the rules on stealing in North America are quite that tight.
>If I stop at a McDonald's and take a paper towel out of the washroom to
>clean my tailights is that stealing?
>
>Cheers,
>Lech
Aki Damme
Ye GAD! I have absolutely NO idea what hotels you frequent (maybe the
hourly type?), but the ones I've stay in don't have condoms or empty
bottles lying around on the floor of the rooms. I know this because I
happen to know alot of the staff (like I said, I travel ALOT).
Also as for B&B's, I've been to several of them also. Some share
faculties some have private facilities for the larger bedrooms.
Either way, IMHO, a consumable is anything that would need to be
thrown out because you used it. Shampoo, conditioner, hand lotion,
shower caps, shoe shine, sewing kits etc., if they are used are an
expendable item. Towels can be reused as well as bathrobes so taking
them is theft. Same goes for ironing boards and irons, beds,
furniture, fixtures, carpeting, plumbing, electrical and any other
part of the structure of the hotel. Taking the toilet paper is just
being cheap..why in gods name anyone would want to take that second
grade sandpaper is beyond me anyhow. If they can afford to stay in
a hotel, they can afford $2 for a four pack of Charmin.
-aki
On Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:34:01 GMT, "Alan Bell" <al...@blk.com> graced
us with the following quip:
>Aki Damme <aki....@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
>news:409ffs4q8b3b8lpss...@4ax.com...
>> ok how about...
>>
>> If you stayed in a BED AND BREAKFAST, would you feel
>> it proper to take their toilet paper when you leave
>
>The commonly accepted rules for bed-and-breakfasts and for hotels are
>different. For instance, people take liquor and go to hotels for
>assignations leaving liquor bottles and condoms on the floor and that is
>"acceptable" behavior in a hotel. But it is hardly acceptable in a B&B. It
>would seem to me that how one handles toilet paper at a hotel stands or
>falls on what is appropriate for that venue, not what is appropriate for a
>B&B.
>
>Specifically, at a B&B, the consumables aren't just for your use, but for
>all the people in the B&B. In a hotel room, the consumables are there solely
>for the occupants of the room.
>
mickey
>>
>
><Giggle> I'm sure you meant, "Ebenezer Scrooge and his
descendents." A
>decedent is a dead person, so your sentence read, "Ebenezer
Scrooge and
>his dead persons are alive and well."
>
>LOL!
>
>
>
>--
>Theresa mesa...@earthlink.net
>
>
language now and again, however, I certainly can see the funny
side of it.
My honest excuse is that I sat on my reading glasses yesterday
and it is proving absolute misery trying to type without them.
Hey...there just may be the beginings of a new thread here.
Regards Mickey
Bob Ward
>Bob Ward <bob...@gte.net> wrote in message
>news:rgqffsca9qq0sfb2s...@4ax.com...
>
>> Sorry, but leaving liquor bottles and condoms on the floor is NOT
>> acceptable behavior anywhere in the civilized world. You may choose
>> to live that way at home, but it is not acceptable elsewhere.
>
>Personally, I agree with you. But I would love to hear from hotel personnel
>who may be reading these messages. I've bet that such behavior, while not
>applauded, is common.
>
The fact that it does occur from time to time certainly does not mean
that it is ACCEPTABLE behavior. If that were the case, NOTHING would
be off limits. After all, if it happened once, it must be accepted.