Problems? Nextel's Moments of Truth
The Magnificent Bastard
Nextel blows more customer moments of truth...again
By David Berlind, Tech Update
July 2, 2003 4:03 AM PT
Little more than a year has passed since I last ripped Nextel for
letting customer moments of truth go awry. My latest experience with
the wireless carrier makes me wonder whether Nextel took that earlier
column seriously.
A year ago, my family and I considered Nextel's walkie-talkie-like
push-to-talk (PTT) a must-have feature. Many people I know rely on PTT
for staying in touch with family or for business reasons. For years,
Nextel has had the PTT market pretty much to itself. But, by the time
2003 is over, the PTT feature will no longer be a unique
differentiator for the carrier. Verizon Wireless and SprintPCS have
each announced that they'll be introducing PTT this year. And this
week, PTT turned from feature into controversy when Verizon Wireless
sued Nextel for improperly obtaining prototypes of Verizon's PTT-based
handsets. If the allegations are true, Nextel is apparently worried
about the PTT market becoming commoditized and subsequently losing
customers to the competition.
But nothing makes a company's customers want to try out the
competition as much as poor customer service. Here's what happened:
Two of the four telephones in my family's possession experienced the
same failure after their warranty periods had ended. (Both phones
suddenly stopped accepting a charge, even when supplied with new
batteries.) I called Nextel's customer service to find out what I
should do next. This was the first customer moment of truth. I
expected to receive the sort of information that would help me get the
phones repaired as quickly, conveniently, and inexpensively as
possible. The representative on the phone asked what my zip code was.
He instructed me to take the malfunctioning phones to a location that
was virtually around the corner.
The second moment of truth occurred when I learned, upon my arrival at
the specified location, that it wasn't a service center. It was only
an authorized Nextel retail outlet.
I had two expectations for this second customer moment of the truth.
First, I expected that any person at an authorized retail outlet for
anything I buy would have complete and accurate information about what
to do when something purchased there breaks. Second, I expected that
the retail outlet would be able to send it to a service center for me.
Neither expectation was fulfilled. My only option, I was told, was to
drive to one of two service centers, each of which was about 40 miles
away.
I called Nextel back from the showroom floor of the retail
outlet--this would be the third customer moment of truth. The Nextel
representative identified a service center that was a bit closer
(about 15 miles away) but failed to offer any other options. At this
point, I was wishing that fixing a telephone was more like fixing a
laptop from one of the respectable manufacturers. If you call IBM, for
example, someone shows up at your door within 24 hours with a box. You
stick the computer in the box and, for most repairs, the computer is
returned to you within two or three days.
Then I remembered driving by a radio service center with Nextel logos
on the side of its building--and it was a lot closer than 15 miles. I
stopped in and, sure enough, the owner said he could fix the phones.
Naturally, with the Nextel signs and collateral materials lying
around, I assumed that it was an authorized service center. It wasn't,
but I didn't know this until later. The assessment fee per phone was
$20, refundable only if I chose to repair the phones. I left the
phones behind for assessment. Later that day, I received a call
telling me that one unit could be fixed for $70 and the other phone
wasn't fixable at all. Seventy dollars to fix a cell phone?
Another customer moment of truth was upon me. Staring at a $70 repair
bill (and already out $40 for the assessment fees), my family and I
wondered if it wouldn't be cheaper just to buy some new phones. This
is when we learned that Nextel treats new customers better than old
customers. This is a mistake, in my estimation, especially in the face
of stiffening competition and diminishing competitive advantage (the
PTT feature). The most important asset to any carrier is its existing
billing relationships. In the case of Nextel, new customers (referred
to by carriers as "new activations") get special discounts on phones.
However, those discounts are unavailable to existing customers. New
phones comparable to the ones that broke would cost more than $70
each.
Savvy cell phone buyers understand that those discounts are designed
to lure new customers into a billing relationship. I can understand
why the discount might not be available to someone who's looking to
upgrade their phone to a newer model. But, my expectation is that a
carrier like Nextel would want to give the existing customer with
broken phone (or phones) a break. At the very least, we should have
had access to prices that were the same as those to which new
activations had access. But we didn't.
After that failed customer moment of truth, my family and I engaged in
what I'm assuming is a carrier's worst nightmare. We started reviewing
offerings from the competition. Not only were SprintPCS and Verizon
Wireless going to have the PTT feature, but both were offering phones
for under $70 that were sleeker and more stylish than those available
from Nextel. In short, it would be cheaper for us to start new
accounts with a competitor than it would be to fix or replace our
phones and keep our existing accounts.
At this customer moment of truth, Nextel was literally pushing us out
the door.
Just before pulling the trigger to switch, I decided, to call Nextel
public relations-- in my reporter role rather than my customer
role--and tell them I would be writing a story about this escapade.
Nextel spokesperson Kelly Mullins agreed that the treatment I had
received as a customer didn't make sense. She put me in touch with the
company's national service and repair program senior director Michael
Volante.
Volante contacted me and said, "We ran you over in the process and we
want to make good on that." I explained that I didn't want
preferential treatment simply because I was a member of the press and
that if he was going to make good on it for me, the same option would
have to be available to other Nextel customers in the same situation.
As it turns out, on the first call I placed to Nextel, I should have
been informed that, for $2.50 per month, I could join a maintenance
program (even though my phones were already broken) that allows me to
walk into any Nextel service center and get the phones fixed or
replaced at no charge. As an alternative, one can call Nextel's Care
Center, which transfers the call to Motorola's service center, which
in turn sends a shipping box to you; the complete turnaround time on a
repaired or replaced phone is 72 to 96 hours, with all shipping costs
included. In fact, said Volante, I should have been informed of these
options at every customer moment of truth--the phone calls and the
visits to two authorized dealers. But I wasn't.
"During your original call to care center," said Volante, "You should
have had all of the options, including just joining the maintenance
plan for $2.50 per month, explained to you. Most of the time, it
works. But we are aware that we have an issue with the tools that our
care representatives have access to, and we're working on it. We
expect those problems to be resolved in the coming months. You should
have escalated your first call."
I asked Volante how I would have known that the call should have been
escalated. Volante explained that some customers are aware of all the
options because of mailings that go out to them. That's a good reason
to read those mailings, which I typically overlook. (Who has time to
read that stuff?)
Nextel is now refunding the $90 ($70 for the repair, $20 for the
assessment of the unrepairable phone) and is putting the phones on the
$2.50 per month maintenance plan.
Despite the happy ending, my experience highlighted too many blown
opportunities. Nextel came dangerously close to losing three accounts.
When coupled with my previous Nextel experience, it's amazing that I'm
still a customer. For businesses, this case study should serve as a
reminder of how important it is to list--and then test--all of your
customer moments of truth. At the very least, if you're in charge of a
customer-facing division or a department, you should be testing all of
your department's moments of truth. Ideally, there should be someone
with authority whose job it is to inventory and test all moments of
truth across the entire company, and then to fix the system where it's
broken. Perhaps it's time for a CCSO--a chief customer service
officer.
Having one person whose responsibility cuts across the entire
organization allows for the opportunity to standardize company-wide on
documents, values, processes, and CRM systems. To the extent that your
CRM systems can offer the same user experience to customers that your
customer service representatives get (via the Web or phone-based
interactive voice response), the opportunity to let customer self-help
options lower your total cost of customer care exists as well.
ASP-based CRM provider RightNow Technologies fits squarely in this
niche and its multi-tenancy framework helps to keep its customers'
total cost of CRM ownership down.
Have you inventoried, tested, and fixed your customer moments of
truth? Perhaps now is a good time. Believe it or not, customer service
is a differentiator. In fact, it could be the one that makes or
breaks your business.
Whether as the customer or the provider, do you have a customer moment
of truth success or failure story?
Source:
http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,2914188,00.html
Dave C.
"Joseph" <joeofs...@yahoo.com> wrote in message >
> And of course we're all supposed to believe that such an incident
> would be handled differently than if a member of the press decided to
> in the name of the press investigate this situation. Odds are that if
> Joe Public had this problem they would have no redress. Announcing
> that you are part of the media and you're prepared to sully their name
> in public is bound to get some damage control. Unless a private
> citizen contracted a media's "help line" to get satisfaction it's
> unlikely the happy ending this author describes would have happened.
>
>
Actually, I'm inclined to believe that Nextel definitely WOULD treat "Joe
Public" in exactly the same way. The member of the press described his
horrible service experience as having a happy ending. That's great that he
feels satisfied. But *I* personally would not have been satisfied with the
solution that Nextel finally came up with, and I doubt if most "Joe Public"s
would have been satisfied, either.
If you read the very long OP, what it boils down to is:
Nextel customer relations department managed to sell the OP a maintenance
plan that the OP should not have needed. Instead of doing the right thing
by fixing or replacing the cell phones cheaply, Nextel managed to increase
their profits further through an extra monthly fee tacked onto the OP's
bill. It is in Nextel's best interest that the phones be fixed or replaced
ASAP so that they will continue to incur airtime charges (Nextel loses money
if the OP's phones are out of service). So the OP had to BEG Nextel for the
right to send Nextel more money in the first place. Nextel obviously had no
problem with that, but Nextel went a step further by ripping off the OP even
more, with a never-ending monthly charge. If there is a happy ending here,
it is a happy ending for Nextel. Nextel is laughing all the way to the
bank. -Dave
Les Moore
site where the various support and repair programs are explained in
detail.
http://www.nextel.com/support/servicerepair/index.shtml
Les
The Magnificent Bastard <Magni...@Bastard.gov> wrote in message news:<opcagvgkbfe645ns7...@4ax.com>...
Justa Lurker
(Les Moore) wrote in alt.cellular:
| It is unfortunate that the author did not have access to
| Nextel's web site where the various support and repair
| programs are explained in detail.
It is unfortunatate that all the Nextel employees and other
representatives of Nextel did not have access to Nextel's
web site where THEY could learn of the various support and
repair options, and pass them on to the customer.
Or did they have access and just refuse to do a good job?
The internet is NOT a valid replacement for good human CS.
JL
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GregR
> Nextel customer relations department managed to sell the OP a maintenance
> plan that the OP should not have needed. Instead of doing the right thing
> by fixing or replacing the cell phones cheaply, Nextel managed to increase
> their profits further through an extra monthly fee tacked onto the OP's
> bill.
[...]
> Nextel is laughing all the way to the bank.
You really think an extra $2.50/month is going to make any significant impact on
a multi-million (billion?) dollar corporation's bottom line?
--
GregR - Another Beemer Biker ...o&o>
Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
Proud to be 'anmother Internet terrorist'
(e-mail from Tommy Brock at Removeyou.org 5/24/02).
Don Klipstein
>"Dave C." wrote:
>
>> Nextel customer relations department managed to sell the OP a
>> maintenance plan that the OP should not have needed.
>> Nextel is laughing all the way to the bank.
>
>You really think an extra $2.50/month is going to make any significant
>impact on a multi-million (billion?) dollar corporation's bottom line?
$30 per year, multiplied by how many customers... If someone thinks of
a way to cause a new and long term increase in the corporation's bottom
line by a few percent or by millions of dollars per year, that person
would be in for quite a bonus.
- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
David L
Another whiny noob
Somehow new cellular/Nextel users seem to get the impression they will
get taken care of rapidly for free if their equipment breaks. Does
happen to the well serviced accounts or if the phone is under a premeum
warranty in some cases, but out of warranty and uninsured...that's
another story.
Few consumers get treated as well after signing ANY contract than if
they were a prospect.
Cell phones break out of warranty and everyone from every carrier
usually winds up in the same boat.
I would agree with one part of the article, some expectation of guidance
if your phone breaks.... there just isn't the kind of answer most folks
want to hear.
It's much like a broken car, fix it, get a new one or wait for dealer to
fix it.
In the case of Verizon the better/expensive insurance, the faster more
encompassing the fix or the Swap Out.
If a person relies on a cell phone for business/critical
missions/whatever, just think about how much lost productivity and
hassle can accumulate in 72-96 hours without a phone. Thats even with
Nextel's insurance.
For some folks it's just inconvenient, for others it could be thousands
of dollars and alienated customers to boot.
Advise: KEEP A SPARE with phone numbers preprogrammed.
I do, keeping one at home or in the trunk. Sure, it costs a little money
for a cheapo spare, but I don't have to run around if my primary phone
breaks or gets lost. One call to CS and I'm up and running as if nothing
happened.
It didn't start this way.. it took my phone breaking internally (under
waranty) on a friday and getting a bum replacement from the local
dealer. Nice service, but a bad power charger caused the replacement to
fail in a few hours, then another trip running around like an idiot then
to the company store the next week etc...... never again!
-----
David
The Magnificent Bastard <Magni...@Bastard.gov> wrote in article
<opcagvgkbfe645ns7...@4ax.com>:
>
> Nextel blows more customer moments of truth...again
>
> By David Berlind, Tech Update
> July 2, 2003 4:03 AM PT
>
>
> (snip noob experience)
>
> I had two expectations for this second customer moment of the truth.
> First, I expected that any person at an authorized retail outlet for
> anything I buy would have complete and accurate information about what
> to do when something purchased there breaks.
>
> (snip)
>
>http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,2914188,00.html
[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]
Been There
news:vgbo67k...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> Another whiny noob
> Somehow new cellular/Nextel users seem to get the impression they will
> get taken care of rapidly for free if their equipment breaks. Does
> happen to the well serviced accounts or if the phone is under a premeum
> warranty in some cases, but out of warranty and uninsured...that's
> another story.
Who does he think he is? A customer? <g> I think that if all of his
options would have been presented to him on the FIRST contact with Nextel
Customer Care, he quite possibly could have selected an option to meet his
needs. The objective seemed to be to get him off the line and go to the
next call. To have to deal time and time again with outsourced "Customer
Care" personnel who are poorly trained, reading from a script, and not using
their ability to think, is very frustrating. I have given them my callback
number for survey purposes over 100 times and have yet to receive the first
call to ask my opinions of Nextel CC. Why? They don't give a rats a** what
I think or need. They just want me to keep paying the bill each month!
As a Corporate user in the Customer Service industry with over 150 Nextel's
in use, I am more than often appalled at what they call "Customer Care". To
be fair though, it is not just Nextel. The lip service to the customer and
don't care attitude seem to permeate most service providers today including
the company I work for. The customer is not #1, profit and the bottom line
are! What has happened to the notion that if you take care of your
customers and always exceed their needs, you will not have to worry about
profit and the bottom line?
Nextel is very good at apologizing to you. That really does not do any good
unless you have the ability and authority to fix what caused the problem in
the first place. I am more impressed by someone who takes ownership and
solves my problem! I too have called Nextel Corporate offices on several
occasions and have really not seen much difference between Corporate or the
outsourced CC rep. They too, do not have a clue as to who the customer is.
One day, soon I hope, Nextel will have some competition. That is when they
will be forced to examine their pompous attitude towards their customers.
At this point, I wonder if they will see it at all, nor care to do anything
about it! When the panic sets in, it will be too late to listen to the
customer. They will all be gone!
Shawn
"Dave C." <spamm...@slowlyandpainfully.com> wrote in message
news:s%fNa.25379$C83.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> Actually, I'm inclined to believe that Nextel definitely WOULD treat "Joe
> Public" in exactly the same way. The member of the press described his
> horrible service experience as having a happy ending. That's great that
he
> feels satisfied. But *I* personally would not have been satisfied with
the
> solution that Nextel finally came up with, and I doubt if most "Joe
Public"s
> would have been satisfied, either.
>
> If you read the very long OP, what it boils down to is:
> Nextel customer relations department managed to sell the OP a maintenance
> plan that the OP should not have needed.
You absolutly do need the maintenance plan. The phones are covered for one
year and one year only. You have insurance if your car breaks right? You
buy an extended warranty for your dvd player right? Why should your cell
phone be any different?
> Instead of doing the right thing
> by fixing or replacing the cell phones cheaply, Nextel managed to increase
> their profits further through an extra monthly fee tacked onto the OP's
> bill.
Nextel doesn't make phones, Motorola does. What gives you the impression
that it's cheap to fix or replace the phone? Why should nextel front the
cost if motorolas warranty is up?
> It is in Nextel's best interest that the phones be fixed or replaced
> ASAP so that they will continue to incur airtime charges (Nextel loses
money
> if the OP's phones are out of service).
Nextel doesn't lose a dime if your phone is broken. You are still
responsible for the monthly service fees.
GregR
> $30 per year, multiplied by how many customers... If someone thinks of
> a way to cause a new and long term increase in the corporation's bottom
> line by a few percent or by millions of dollars per year, that person
> would be in for quite a bonus.
Yeah, but I was talking about this particular case. And in this one, the
company would have lost (granted it probably wouldn't have cost them the $70
retail repair cost, but probably more than $30 - plus whatever it cost to
replace the unrepairable phone).
Maintenance contracts and/or extended warranties are usually a bad deal
anyway - I'd rather pocket the cost and spend the savings on
repair/replacement if it's ever needed. So far the gamble has paid off
handsomely.
My standard line to sales-droids whenever they try to sell me one is "So,
you're saying there's something wrong with it?". Kinda takes the wind out of
their sails (and sales...) real-quick-like. :-)
Dave C.
"GregR" <spama...@suespammers.org.NULL> wrote in message >
> You really think an extra $2.50/month is going to make any significant
impact on
> a multi-million (billion?) dollar corporation's bottom line?
>
Yes, because it's $2.50/month INDEFINITELY. Even if Nextel had charged
fifty bucks a piece to repair or replace the phones, in the long run, they
could possibly collect WAY more than a hundred bucks through this
never-ending monthly charge. -Dave
Dave C.
"Been There" <nos...@nopam.com> wrote in message
news:03mNa.80385$X43.72167@clmboh1-is.
>
> One day, soon I hope, Nextel will have some competition. That is when
they
What planet are you living on? Nextel has at least five major competitors.
That's just off the top of my head. There are probably several major
competitors I've never heard of, along with dozens of minor competitors,
also. I've had nextel twice (not my idea, business use), and had to DUMP
them twice due to poor coverage in ALL areas I work in. Both times, the new
cellular service was MUCH more reliable, and it was different major
providers each time. No competition? What have you been smokin'?
:) -Dave
Dave C.
"Shawn" <sba...@NOSPAMcolumbus.rr.com> wrote in message news:d7mNa.10105>
> You absolutly do need the maintenance plan. The phones are covered for
one
> year and one year only. You have insurance if your car breaks right? You
> buy an extended warranty for your dvd player right? Why should your cell
> phone be any different?
>
> that it's cheap to fix or replace the phone? Why should nextel front the
> cost if motorolas warranty is up?
>
> responsible for the monthly service fees.
>
OK, it is very unwise (I'd say stupid, but that may be too harsh) to sign a
cellular contract that is more than ONE year in length. So a service plan
should not be needed, period. This is especially true if you have never
used this particular provider IN THE AREA where you are CURRENTLY using your
cell. phone. I had to switch my personal cell phone carrier twice before I
found a provider that offered good service where *I* use it. Similar story
with my business use cell phone. If I'd have signed a contract longer than
one year, I'd have been stuck with mucho-expensive early termination fees,
increasing profits for a service provider that sucks, to put it bluntly.
Nextel (not to pick on Nextel specifically, they are all just as bad as far
as fees go) gets most of it's profits from the extra fees, not the monthly
service fees. You know . . . the roaming charges, extra minute charges,
etc. Most of Nextel's profits would dry up quick if every telephone on the
nextel network were to suddenly explode. It definitely is in Nextel's best
interest to see that the telephones on their network are working great, with
very little downtime. -Dave
David L
Interesting perpective. I did not realize it was so bad, even for major
account holders.
I think Verizon and Sprint PTT has scarred Nextel. If not, should. Up
till now there was no PTT alternative and Nextel could keep CS costs
down. Take it or leave it.
IF VZW or SPCS can execute, which remains to be seen there appears to be
some bruised customers that would dump Nextel in a heartbeat.
LNP could turn out to be another nail in the coffin.
-----
David
"Been There" <nos...@nopam.com> wrote in article
<03mNa.80385$X43....@clmboh1-nws5.columbus.rr.com>:
>
>
> One day, soon I hope, Nextel will have some competition. That is when they
> will be forced to examine their pompous attitude towards their customers.
> At this point, I wonder if they will see it at all, nor care to do anything
> about it! When the panic sets in, it will be too late to listen to the
> customer. They will all be gone!
>
>
[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]
Carl.
> Just because
> a customer does not know the difference between a company store and an
> authorized service facility is not Nextel's fault.
Yes it is. Have you ever seen a Nextel dealer? There is no immediate way
to tell the difference. Nextel, like Cingular, allows their independent
retailers to assume a 99.9% (my made-up number) image of being a direct
nextel store. When you see a Nextel dealer, there isn't much to indicate
that it is not owned by the carrier.
Other carriers like Sprint, T-Mobile, and Verizon (IIRC) have various
regulations as to the relative sizes of carrier/retailer signs, with the
obvious intent of preventing such confusion. Maybe the rules have changed,
but last I knew this was the situation.
---
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Carl.
> July 2, 2003 4:03 AM PT
> 2003 is over, the PTT feature will no longer be a unique
> differentiator for the carrier.
I remember watching the Nextel CEO say how Nextel is the only wireless
company using a feature to compete, while all the other carriers are using
price. At the time I thought it was a pretty good argument, and at the time
maybe it sort of was.
But it was partly wrong. First, as is obvious, it will not be their feature
forever. Second, while price was certainly a noticable weapon of choice for
everyone but Nextel, the other carriers were also using economics, services,
and marketing to find ways to compete. They may have all tried to look
cheap, but had unique ways of offering coverage, offering phones, and
cutting costs. And Nextel was certainly not the only one trying to offer a
unique service. The brief race to offer text messaging and internet access
was no less service-based than Nextel offering PTT.
So my question is how nextel is going to do when they are just another
carrier, but without a lot of area covered.
Been There
I am sure the five companies you speak of would like to think they are
competitors. Until they offer "Direct Connect" of some sort, they can't
truly compete for all of Nextel's customers.
FTR - I don't smoke!
Been There
> So my question is how nextel is going to do when they are just another
> carrier, but without a lot of area covered.
>
If the other carriers can add an equivalent "Direct Connect" to their
portfolio, Nextel will have to make major changes to the way they conduct
business to keep current customers and attract new ones. It has taken the
other carriers many years to realize that there is a market for
"walkie-talkies".
In some areas, Nextel's coverage is very poor and in others, non existent.
To attract new customers once they are not the only player with DC, they
probably will have to address the issue of coverage.
I would hope that Nextel is working on the next "feature" that will give
them another competitive advantage.
GregR
> Yes, because it's $2.50/month INDEFINITELY.
Not necessarily - people don't usually sign up for their cell plans for life.
And even you seem to agree:
From: "Dave C." <spamm...@slowlyandpainfully.com>
Newsgroups:
alt.cellular.nextel,alt.cellular,misc.consumer,misc.consumers,alt.consumers,alt.consumers.experiences
Subject: Re: Problems? Nextel's Moments of Truth
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 22:55:40 GMT
Message-ID: <MBnNa.80168$Io.73...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
"OK, it is very unwise (I'd say stupid, but that may be too harsh)
to sign a cellular contract that is more than ONE year in length.
So a service plan should not be needed, period."
> Even if Nextel had charged
> fifty bucks a piece to repair or replace the phones, in the long run, they
> could possibly collect WAY more than a hundred bucks through this
> never-ending monthly charge.
Not if the OP got so disgusted with the service that he went with another
provider.
Bob Ward
<sba...@NOSPAMcolumbus.rr.com> wrote:
>
>You absolutly do need the maintenance plan. The phones are covered for one
>year and one year only. You have insurance if your car breaks right? You
>buy an extended warranty for your dvd player right? Why should your cell
>phone be any different?
Actually, no, you DON'T need the maintenance plan. Such extended
warrantees would not be sold unless the seller expected to collect
more in premiums than the repairs are likely to cost.
Dave C.
> I am sure the five companies you speak of would like to think they are
> competitors. Until they offer "Direct Connect" of some sort, they can't
> truly compete for all of Nextel's customers.
>
> FTR - I don't smoke!
>
At least two major providers that I know of are coming out with "direct
connect" soon. In fact, one of them is suing Nextel because nextel was so
worried about the competition that they engaged in some illegal spying of
some sort. But even if Nextel was the only company with that particular
feature, the feature only works in areas that you have a strong signal. In
my experience, Nextel's coverage really stinks, making that feature highly
overrated. -Dave
Bob Ward
<qine...@lnubb.pbz> wrote:
>
>Both Verizon Wireless and SprintPCS will swap out a malfunctioning phone at one
>of their retail stores. You get a working (refurbished) phone on the spot.
>
>There's no excuse for the bullshit Nextel put that guy through.
At what price, if the malfunctioning phones are out of warranty?
Dave C.
"Bob Ward" <bob....@verizon.net> wrote in message >
> At what price, if the malfunctioning phones are out of warranty?
>
Slightly lower profits short-term, much greater profits long-term. Seems a
price Nextel should be more than willing to "pay". -Dave
Bob Ward
No, if the phones are not under warranty, Nextel has no obligation to
replace them on the spot at no charge.
Justin Rice
of the problems that electronics have these days. Yes, they make a
profit on it otherwise they wouldn't be selling it. It is smart
business. Places like Best Buy and Circuit City offer plans on their
products in case something would happen. It beats dealing with the
manufacturer's warranty. you can't expect a company to stand by their
products forever. Thus why these are popular sellers.
"Dave C." <spamm...@slowlyandpainfully.com> wrote in article
<s%fNa.25379$C83.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>:
[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]
John Bartley K7AAY (ex-KGH2126)
wrote:
>You absolutly do need the maintenance plan. The phones are covered for one
>year and one year only. You have insurance if your car breaks right? You
>buy an extended warranty for your dvd player right? Why should your cell
>phone be any different?
Because of the absurdly long wait and high % deductible included with this
'insurance'. If my phone breaks, I do NOT want to wait a week for
replacement, I want a replacement _today_. That, I don't get with cellular
'insurance'.
<snip>
--
Nobody but a fool goes into a federal counterrorism operation without duct tape - Richard Preston, THE COBRA EVENT.
Mike Berger
I suspect Nextel encourages it because of all the people who abuse their
phones and then expect the company to replace them at subsidized prices
anytime they get careless.
Mike Berger
and abuse too. Most extended warranties and maintenance contracts don't.
Mike Berger
and they send a phone right out next day air.
And it doesn't just cover breakage. It covers loss too.
Mike Berger
the same planet. We just broke our contract with Sprint because their 3G
service with our Samsung A500 phones was atrocious. It rarely worked for
either incoming or outgoing calls, even well within signal range. Our
new Nextel service is great.
Idiot
"Don Klipstein" <d...@manx.misty.com> wrote in message
news:slrnbgbih...@manx.misty.com...
True that the monthly charge is something that one might think is
unecessary, but that's what it is there for. $70 to fix a phone that new
woul cost me @ $200 to replace onec I am a customer v. $30 a year just in
case? I'll take the service plan.
Alternative to the service plan, if you are with someone long enough: I had
a great Sprint phone for a year, saw something on eBay I wanted to try out,
bought it, and used it instead of the original phone. Then I got rid of the
montly service charge. If one phone died, I could move other to the other
one, right? That was my backup - otherwise I was going to keep the service
charge.
Mike Berger
implement their direct-connect modes. Only the Iden system is
designed to carry those connections efficiently. It will take a lot more
system resources for Sprint, Verizon, etc. to offer a comparable
service. It will cost them a lot more, and they'll have to cover that
from somewhere.
The lower frequencies used by the Iden system penetrate buildings
better too. So people who really use their phones as a walkie-talkie
will probably find the Nextel service more effective.
Mike Berger
phone is out of warranty, they will SELL you a refurbished or new phone
(unless you're a business customer and then they send you to an outside
salesperson).
Dave C.
"Mike Berger" <berger> wrote in message news:3F09A771...@shout.net...
> You're mistaken. The monthly insurance fee goes to a separate company.
> I suspect Nextel encourages it because of all the people who abuse their
> phones and then expect the company to replace them at subsidized prices
> anytime they get careless.
>
> "Dave C." wrote:
I suspect you are wrong when you claim that the fee charged by Nextel
actually goes to a separate company. But even if you are right on that, I
am certain Nextel receives kickbacks from the sale of these maintenance
contracts. Whether you are right or wrong, it is certain that Nextel
increased their profits somehow by tacking on the extra monthly fee to the
OP's bill. -Dave
P Howard
why would it be far more expensive for non iDEN carriers to implement
it?
--
Verizon customer/ formerly Cingular user/ formerly Sprint PCS user
Mike Berger <ber...@shout.net> wrote in article
<3F09A9EB...@shout.net>:
[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]
Andrew Jackson
based network, not a circuit switched. Its the difference between
trying to pour rice down the toilet, versus a sandwitch. The
rice(packets) take up less space on the network, and can be rerouted on
the fly to take or conserve bandwith. The sandwitch(crcuit switched)
takes up an entire channels bandwith, wether each party is talking or
not. nextel has been doing PTT for 10 years, the others, none.
thri...@aol.com (P Howard) wrote in article
<vgjfhpd...@corp.supernews.com>:
Carl.
news:vgjum89...@corp.supernews.com...
> Nextels network is more efficient in handling calls because its a packet
> based network, not a circuit switched. Its the difference between
> trying to pour rice down the toilet, versus a sandwitch. The
> rice(packets) take up less space on the network, and can be rerouted on
> the fly to take or conserve bandwith. The sandwitch(crcuit switched)
> takes up an entire channels bandwith, wether each party is talking or
> not. nextel has been doing PTT for 10 years, the others, none.
Pardon my ignorance, but isn't that the whole point of the 3g upgrades? If
I can browse the web on a 3g phone that only occupies the bandwidth actually
used, why can't the PTT system work the same way?
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.497 / Virus Database: 296 - Release Date: 7/4/2003
spam...@invalid.net
wrote:
>Just to point out that the Nextel insurance coverage includes loss, theft,
>and abuse too. Most extended warranties and maintenance contracts don't.
Every cell phone carrier I have had included all of that in their
"insurance" plans! The first and only time I used one I learned that
the "deductible" cost more than the replacement phone would have cost!
Justa Lurker
<ber...@shout.net> wrote in alt.cellular:
| It will take a lot more system resources for Sprint, Verizon,
| etc. to offer a comparable service. It will cost them a lot
| more, and they'll have to cover that from somewhere.
Even IF that were true, it will be much cheaper to have a Verizon
or SPCS phone and add PTT than to have a Verizon or SPCS phone
and carry a Nextel for PTT.
| The lower frequencies used by the Iden system penetrate
| buildings better too. So people who really use their phones
| as a walkie-talkie will probably find the Nextel service more
| effective.
And where are these "lower frequencies"? Wrapped around 800mHz
cellular frequencies where MOST of Verizon's service operates.
Take another look at your frequency chart.
JL
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
Marc...@yahoo.com
It sounds like one of his lines.
Here is just one comparable service. That requires no special hardware or
infrastructure equipment. Works on existing systems. There are some technical issues
being worked on but for a 1st release ready to go not bad........
http://www.fastchat.com/us/whatisit_voice.jsp
Key features of fastchat
Allows both group and one-to-one conversations
Single user interface for seamless integration of services
Ability to reply to messages in alternative methods (text. voice or pictures)
Does not require special hardware or infrastructure equipment
Works on today's 2.5/3G networks
Connects users across different operators and geographical boundaries.
Users can mix subscribers, non-subscribers and legacy mobile phone users
in a single or group conversation
If you want to look at hardcore 3G Push-To-Talk apps check out
> It was Mon, 07 Jul 2003 12:12:11 -0500, and Mike Berger
> <ber...@shout.net> wrote in alt.cellular:
> | It will take a lot more system resources for Sprint, Verizon,
> | etc. to offer a comparable service. It will cost them a lot
> | more, and they'll have to cover that from somewhere--
"NEXTEL-1 IT'S NOT JUST NEXTEL"
Note The New address
Subscribe to Nextel-1: http://www.groups.yahoo.com/subscribe/NEXTEL-1
"NEXTEL2 FOR iDEN SOFTWARE DEVELOPERS"
Subscribe to Nextel2: http://www.groups.yahoo.com/subscribe/NEXTEL2
"WIRELESS FORUM HOMELAND SECURITY GROUP"
The Complete Resource for Wireless Homeland Security.
Subscribe to WFHSG: http://www.groups.yahoo.com/subscribe/WFHSG
L. Germ
"
>
> Pardon my ignorance, but isn't that the whole point of the 3g upgrades? If
> I can browse the web on a 3g phone that only occupies the bandwidth actually
> used, why can't the PTT system work the same way?
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.497 / Virus Database: 296 - Release Date: 7/4/2003
>
>
[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]
Andrew Jackson
Because they are different systems. imo nextels network is the closest
thing to 3g so far, minus the slow browsing speeds.
ATT, T-mobile and Cingulars GPRS systems are packet based, thats why
they are able to use third party software PTT overlays like Fastchat
(http://www.fastchat.com). What makes nextels system faster is that it
is a hardware solution, where as other companies are using software
solutions. I'm not sure if WCDMA uses a packet based system. I hope I
answered your question satisfactorily. Sorry I'm not an English major.
"Carl." <Kronk...@hotmail.com> wrote in article
<f3nOa.46599$XV.30...@twister.austin.rr.com>:
[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]
Stanley Cline
wrote:
>Pardon my ignorance, but isn't that the whole point of the 3g upgrades? If
>I can browse the web on a 3g phone that only occupies the bandwidth actually
>used, why can't the PTT system work the same way?
The main problem with PTT over packet data networks (1X, GPRS) is high
latency -- packet data networks were designed to reliably carry DATA,
not carry voice with low latency.
-SC
--
Stanley Cline -- sc1 at roamer1 dot org -- http://www.roamer1.org/
...
"Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There might
be a law against it by that time." -/usr/games/fortune
Stanley Cline
wrote:
>The lower frequencies used by the Iden system penetrate buildings
>better too. So people who really use their phones as a walkie-talkie
The ESMR frequencies used by Nextel are more or less adjacent to the
800 MHz cellular frequencies used by VZW and Cingular in most places
and AT&T in many; Nextel's *generally* (they DO have some problem
areas!) better in-building coverage is much more a matter of network
design than anything else.
(FWIW, here in Atlanta, I've found that for the most part, where
Nextel doesn't work well VZW does, and where VZW doesn't work well
Nextel does -- hence I have service with both.)
Marc...@yahoo.com
iDEN is capacity challenged. It is a well know fact that CDMA offers capacity
enhancements far superior to iDEN. Even with Nextel going back to 6:1 (which they
had in 1995.) they still can't match CDMA. For a comparison look at www.cdg.org or
check www.yankeegroup.com
In addition iDEN has significant hardware challenges. The IMP-DAP only supports
300 EBTS sites and 45,000 users. The N-DAP is a 6-DAP cluster with up to 1000 EBTS
sites and 90,000 users. The T-DAP supports clusters 1000 EBTS sites and 180,000
users. If you look at a typical Lucent config you will see a similar config can
support 250,00 users.
Andrew Jackson wrote:
> Because they are different systems. imo nextels network is the closest
> thing to 3g so far, minus the slow browsing speeds.--
Marc...@yahoo.com
Stanley Cline wrote:
> On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 12:12:11 -0500, Mike Berger <ber...@shout.net>
> wrote:
>
> >The lower frequencies used by the Iden system penetrate buildings
> >better too. So people who really use their phones as a walkie-talkie
>
> The ESMR frequencies used by Nextel are more or less adjacent to the
> 800 MHz cellular frequencies used by VZW and Cingular in most places
> and AT&T in many; Nextel's *generally* (they DO have some problem
> areas!) better in-building coverage is much more a matter of network
> design than anything else.
>
> (FWIW, here in Atlanta, I've found that for the most part, where
> Nextel doesn't work well VZW does, and where VZW doesn't work well
> Nextel does -- hence I have service with both.)
--
Andrew Jackson
Motorola were coming out with some kind of "vocoder" solution to double
their capicity by the end of this year.
Marc...@yahoo.com wrote in article <3F0B97E7...@yahoo.com>:
[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]
Marc...@yahoo.com
Nextel had 6:1 in 1995-
Then they switched to 3:1
Now the are switching back to 6:1 and are calling it a capacity enhancement (HAHAHA)
I made reference to the 6:1 switch in my email below.
<SNIP>
It is a well know fact that CDMA offers capacity
> enhancements far superior to iDEN. Even with Nextel going back to
6:1 (which they
> had in 1995.)
Here is the presser from when Nextel spent $100 milion to go to 3:1 because 6:1 was bad!
Motorola Announces Commercial Availability of iDEN
Enhancement
Enhancement of iDEN Technology Spurs $100 Million Nextel®
Contract
SCHAUMBURG, IL, June 17, 1996 -- Motorola's Land Mobile Products Sector
(LMPS)
today announced the commercial availability of a major software enhancement
to its
iDEN® technology that will allow wireless carriers to offer customers
premium quality
telephone interconnect service, while maintaining the system's other
core services,
including instant conferencing/wireless intercom, alphanumeric and
circuit data
capabilities.
Nextel Communications, Inc. has ordered in excess of $100 million of
additional iDEN
infrastructure and subscriber equipment based upon the commercial availability
of the
new enhancement to the iDEN technology.
"This enhancement to iDEN is important because it offers Enhanced Specialized
Mobile Radio (ESMR) system users a product that meets the rigorous
competitive
demands for audio quality in the wireless digital communications market,"
said Merle
L. Gilmore, president of Motorola's Land Mobile Products Sector. "iDEN
delivers this
enhancement while maintaining its superior integrated communications
services and
the efficient use of precious RF spectrum."
iDEN (Integrated Digital Enhanced Network) is a fully-digital integrated
wireless
system for the 800 megahertz frequency band (and 1.5 gigahertz band
in Japan) that
integrates full-duplex telephone interconnect, instant conferencing
for group and
private calling, alphanumeric paging with guaranteed message delivery
and one-touch
call back, and data/fax communications services for mobile workgroup
applications.
iDEN technology is based on a variety of time-proven RF technologies
developed by
Motorola to provide a fully integrated wireless digital network. These
enabling
technologies include Motorola's new state-of-the-art vocoders (voice
coders), the
M16QAM modulation process, and the Time Division Multiple Access (TDMA)
channel splitting process.
>>>The new iDEN enhancement increases the number of bits used to
transmit the voice
signal, resulting in improved audio quality. The bits are transmitted
using a new
TDMA format that reduces the number of time slots from six to three
per 25 kHz
channel in the telephone interconnect mode. The reduction of voice
slots allows the
use of a new eight kilobit vocoder, which doubles the voice sampling
rate compared to
the existing four kilobit vocoder, improving the overall tone and
richness of telephone
interconnect communications.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
The software enhancement also utilizes advanced forward error correction
protocols
that correct essential corrupted bit in digital voice transmissions
sent over the
airwaves, resulting insignificantly improved audio quality even in
weak signal and
interference areas.
Convenient and efficient one-touch citywide, regional or even statewide
communication is provided through iDEN's instant conferencing and wireless
intercom
capabilities (also known as two-way dispatch). This service will continue
to operate at
the 6:1 rate to maximize use of RF spectrum.
Motorola also introduced a new pocket-sized handset for use with the
3:1
enhancement that will be a key addition to the many iDEN subscriber
products already
on the market. The Motorola i370 digital portable weighs just 8.7 ounces,
about half
that of existing iDEN handsets. In addition to enhanced telephone interconnect
capabilities, the i370 includes four lines of alphanumeric text messaging
and one line
for display icons. A portable unit with circuit data transmission capabilities,
and a
vehicle-installed mobile unit (the m370), are expected to be introduced
later this year.
In 1994, Motorola introduced iDEN as the first fully digital-based system
that
integrates four wireless communications services in one. Motorola has
implemented
commercial iDEN systems for Nextel Communications, Inc. and the Southern
Company
in the United States as well as in Argentina, Japan and Israel. iDEN
systems in Canada
and Singapore now are being deployed and are expected to be available
in the second
half of 1996. To date, more than 2,500 cell sties and 120,000 subscriber
devices have
been shipped.
Motorola is one of the world's leading providers of wireless communications,
semiconductors, and electronic systems, components and services. Major
equipment
businesses include cellular telephone, two-way radio, paging and data
communications, personal communications, automotive, defense and space
electronics and computers. Motorola semiconductors power communication
devices,
computers and millions of other products. Motorola's 1995 sales were
$27 billion.
--
Marc...@yahoo.com
are ahead of schudle
===============================================================================
Nextel to complete nationwide Direct Connec early
Monday July 7, 11:11 am ET
CHICAGO, July 7 (Reuters) - Nextel Communications Inc. (NasdaqNM:NXTL - News), the
fifth-largest U.S. wireless telephone company, on Monday said it will complete the
roll-out of its new nationwide walkie-talkie service in July, ahead of schedule.
===================================================================================
9/30/1999 11:33 PM
Nextel to Expand Walkie-Talkie Features Regionally, Nationally
Nextel to Expand Walkie-Talkie Features Regionally, Nationally San Francisco,
Sept. 29 (Bloomberg) -- Nextel Communications Inc., a national wireless-phone
service provider, will expand its DirectConnect walkie-talkie service so groups
can communicate regionally and nationally, Chief Executive Tim Donahue said. ``We
have the opportunity to go regional with DirectConnect, meaning a sales manager in
Boston can push the big button and talk to a sales rep in Washington,'' he said at
a Banc of America Securities conference in San Francisco. ``That will happen in
late 2000, and in 2001 or early 2002 we'll have Direct Connect on a nationwide
basis.''
Nextel is working with its Motorola Inc., which makes its phone handsets, to make
these new services possible, Donahue said. He described the opportunity as
``significant,'' but wasn't more specific.
Nextel has been adding white-collar companies to its traditional blue-and
gray-collar customer base, which now includes half of the Fortune 500, Donahue
said. These companies ``are finding huge applications for Nextel phones that they
can't get anywhere else,'' he said.
Nextel already has the highest average monthly revenue per user in the wireless
industry, at $74, and the lowest customer turnover, at 2 percent. The company
intends to push its customer turnover lower, Donahue said. ``My anticipation is
that we can reduce churn,'' he said. Forty percent of customers who leave Nextel
do so voluntarily, and say they will return if the company improves its coverage
where they need to use their phone, Donahue said.
The company also is ``aggressively expanding'' its network, keeping its switching
technology six months ahead of demand and its radio-frequency technology four
months ahead of demand, he said.
===========================================================
As you can see they are full of S^&(
Evan Platt
On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 04:01:24 -0400, The Magnificent Bastard
<Magni...@Bastard.gov> wrote:
>He instructed me to take the malfunctioning phones to a location that
>was virtually around the corner.
>
>The second moment of truth occurred when I learned, upon my arrival at
>the specified location, that it wasn't a service center. It was only
>an authorized Nextel retail outlet.
This unfortunately happens a lot to us - we're a indirect dealer, not
a service center. Yet often Nextel sends customers to us for repair
services. Most of the customers call first though.
>First, I expected that any person at an authorized retail outlet for
>anything I buy would have complete and accurate information about what
>to do when something purchased there breaks. Second, I expected that
>the retail outlet would be able to send it to a service center for me.
>Neither expectation was fulfilled. My only option, I was told, was to
>drive to one of two service centers, each of which was about 40 miles
>away.
Nextels warranty period is one year from date of purchase. We, as a
dealer, cannot send a customers phone for repair. The customer must
use Express door to door (a $35 charge to your next bill), or go to a
service center).
>(about 15 miles away) but failed to offer any other options. At this
>point, I was wishing that fixing a telephone was more like fixing a
>laptop from one of the respectable manufacturers. If you call IBM, for
>example, someone shows up at your door within 24 hours with a box. You
>stick the computer in the box and, for most repairs, the computer is
>returned to you within two or three days.
See above. Nextel door to door - you put the phone in a box, FedEx
picks up the box, you get it back 3 days later.
>Then I remembered driving by a radio service center with Nextel logos
>on the side of its building--and it was a lot closer than 15 miles. I
>stopped in and, sure enough, the owner said he could fix the phones.
>Naturally, with the Nextel signs and collateral materials lying
>around, I assumed that it was an authorized service center. It wasn't,
>but I didn't know this until later. The assessment fee per phone was
>$20, refundable only if I chose to repair the phones. I left the
>phones behind for assessment. Later that day, I received a call
>telling me that one unit could be fixed for $70 and the other phone
>wasn't fixable at all. Seventy dollars to fix a cell phone?
Yes. Nokia has a flat rate of $100 an hour. How much do you think they
pay the people to repair them? They don't work for free.
>I asked Volante how I would have known that the call should have been
>escalated. Volante explained that some customers are aware of all the
>options because of mailings that go out to them. That's a good reason
>to read those mailings, which I typically overlook. (Who has time to
>read that stuff?)
If you don't like the answer of a level one monkey, ask for a
supervisor. No matter where you call.
>Nextel is now refunding the $90 ($70 for the repair, $20 for the
>assessment of the unrepairable phone) and is putting the phones on the
>$2.50 per month maintenance plan.
Had you read the contract you signed, you would have known about the
$2.50 maintenance option.
Next article you slam a carrier on for not giving you all your
options, slam the person who doesn't read the contract they sign.
To reply, remove TheObvious from my e-mail address.