Ripped Off! What do I do?
victor
merchant.
After a week of not receiving anything, I phoned the merchant only to
discover that they shipped the merchandise to the wrong address. They said
I could get a refund or a replacement item. When I indicated I wanted a
refund, they hung up on me.
I phoned them again and a different person answered the phone. He said he
would "look into it" and to check with my bank for the refund.
Another week has passed and still no refund.
How do I get my money back and what should I do?
Patricia
vict...@comcast.net wrote on 5/15/03 6:58 PM:
========
If it's been processed on your Mastercard....you can call them and stop
payment. Do this at once.
We got a statment not long ago with and incorrect charge on it....in order
to not be accountable we had to "freeze" that card and put the amount in
"dispute".
It took a while (over a month) but it was finally removed from our bill.
Move quickly...
Patricia
v
>> I purchased a $300 camera using my bank's debit Mastercard from an online
>> merchant.
>
>If it's been processed on your Mastercard....you can call them and stop
>payment. Do this at once.
>
Can you "stop payment" on a DEBIT card? Isn't the money already out
of his account? Now he has to get it back, and yes, sure, tell his
card issuer (that's not the same as calling "Mastercard", is it?).
A prime example of why I would never want a debit card. If I bought
this on a credit card, I could protest it BEFORE the money was out of
my acount.
I do use an ATM card, because I know right on the spot that I have my
money. I would never order online, mail or phone using a debit card.
But then, I won't use a debit card anyway.
Debit cards are a big rip by VISA and M/C, not the least of which is
on merchants (who pass costs to consumers). Hear about the multi
BILLION $ antitrust suit against them for forcing merchants who wish
to take credit cards, to also take debit cards, the merchant fees on
which are just as high as VISA and M/C credit cards even though the
processing costs and reserves for losses are much much less? It costs
the merchant far more to process a VISA or M/C debit card than doing
the same transaction thru another network like NYCE, etc. But VISA
and M/C sell these debit cards hard, trying to convince customers they
are doing them a favor. It's really because it is that much more
profitable for VISA and M/C. Not that I am against business making a
profit; I own a business. But not by monopolistic coercion and
borderline misrepresentation.
-v..
The Real Bev
> I do use an ATM card, because I know right on the spot that I have my
> money. I would never order online, mail or phone using a debit card.
> But then, I won't use a debit card anyway.
The use of debit cards is proof that humanity, or at least the USAn part
of it, is going to hell in a handbasket. The only possible advantage is
that stores might accept a debit card, but not a credit card. Are there
stores like that? Would any sane person shop there?
--
Cheers,
Bev
-------------------------------------------------------------------
"We need to cut more slack for the stupid; after all, somebody has
to populate the lower part of the bell curve." -- Dennis (evil)
Frank White
says...
>
>I purchased a $300 camera using my bank's debit Mastercard from an online
>merchant.
Yipe.
Never use a debit card to purchase things on-line.
>After a week of not receiving anything, I phoned the merchant only to
>discover that they shipped the merchandise to the wrong address. They said
>I could get a refund or a replacement item. When I indicated I wanted a
>refund, they hung up on me.
>
>I phoned them again and a different person answered the phone. He said he
>would "look into it" and to check with my bank for the refund.
>
>Another week has passed and still no refund.
>
>How do I get my money back and what should I do?
OK, this may be tricky...
First, call the company again. Take notes, get names, record
times and dates, explain the situation and try to get satisfaction.
If the person you're talking to seems to be a dead end, ask to
be transferred to his supervisor/boss or get the S/B's name and
phone number. Go up the chain of command as far as you can and
try to get this resolved.
If the phone doesn't work, send a letter - certified with a
return receipt - stating the situation and politely asking for
a refund. Hopefully the written word will get results where
the spoken word did not. At the same time get in touch with
your bank and see if they have any protections in place or
people or systems than can help you put pressure on the firm
in question to come to heel.
If these steps don't get you anywhere, get mean. Let the
company know you're about to complain to the Better Business
Bureaus and the Attorneys General of your state AND their state,
to every Federal regulatory agency available, and to anyone
else (including any omsbudman who operates out of a local
newspaper, website, or TV program) who might be able to
twist their arms until they give up your money. And then
do it. See how much of a firestorm you can unleash on these
guys, and what it takes to make them talk turkey.
And cut up your debit card.
Good luck.
FW
Ned Flanders
How was it sent? UPS or USPS? USPS has Postal Inspectors--call them.
Out of state? Then it's a federal crime regardless of the shipper.
FBI Internet crime center.
http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/reporting.htm Do not be
intimidated by needing to contact the FBI, that is their job and they
are there to serve.
Cheers,
Ned
Abound
See if there is a Better Business Seal (BBBOnline, for example) on
their website. If there is, then click on the seal and file a
complaint. To join the BBB, the vendor has to agree to arbitration by
BBB for any complaint. If they're not part of the BBB, report them
anyway.
Also, if the company uses UPS, and the misdelivery turns out to be
UPS's fault, then your camera might be insured by UPS. You can try
filing a claim, but the vendor might have to do it. It's a pain, but
I suggest asking the vender for your order's tracking number and then
contacting the shipper. Of course, if the business is just ripping
you off, then they won't be able to produce a tracking number...
because it doesn't exist.
If you do get the tracking number, see where it originates... the
vender might only be the middle-man, using a drop-shipper. If that's
the case, then see if you can figure out who the drop-shipper is (the
shipping company could tell you). File a complaint directly with the
drop-shipper. They might be willing to refund you at least the
wholesale price of your camera, which they would then recoup from the
business who ripped you off.
I know this stuff is a pain to do, but good luck! Getting ripped off
isn't fun!
As an owner of an internet business, I can tell you that orders do go
wrong, and good venders have to deal with problems like this all the
time... and it's hard because some venders don't care about their
customers.
Good Luck,
Michael Trutt
ABOUND ENTERPRISES
http://outdoor-patio-furniture.biz
Andrew Koenig
victor> from an online merchant.
If you had used a credit card, the situation would be simple: Write a letter
to your bank, explain that the merchandise was never received, and they
would reverse the charge.
I believe that with a debit card, you have no rights beyond what your
bank chooses to give you. If I am right, your only recourse is to
contact your bank, explain the situation to them, and hope that they
will do something reasonable.
--
Andrew Koenig, a...@research.att.com, http://www.research.att.com/info/ark
James Linn
"The Real Bev" <bas...@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:3EC44AAD...@myrealbox.com...
> v wrote:
>
> > I do use an ATM card, because I know right on the spot that I have my
> > money. I would never order online, mail or phone using a debit card.
> > But then, I won't use a debit card anyway.
>
> The use of debit cards is proof that humanity, or at least the USAn part
> of it, is going to hell in a handbasket. The only possible advantage is
> that stores might accept a debit card, but not a credit card. Are there
> stores like that? Would any sane person shop there?
Debit cards have been around alot longer in Canada. It was a much simpler
introduction - the banks just made your ATM card a debit card. Though there
are ATM fees if you don't use your own bank's card, there is no fee to use a
debit card at a merchant -hence its no different than cash.
It is much more convenient. They are in no way tied to credit cards, no fee
to get one. There are grocery stores and even convenience stores which don't
accept credit cards but do accept debit cards, which is strange because you
can use the same equipment for both. Costco used to not accept credit cards,
but would take debit cards, until they came up with the Costco/Amex card(boo
hiss). The large department stores were some of the last holdouts - they
said it was because of the cost of outfitting every cash register. I think
it had more to do with encouraging people to use their department store
credit cards with 28.8% interest.
James Linn
Ned Flanders
LOL! Oh no not the Better Business Bureau! Why not just send the
camera store a "Thank You" card instead.
Cheers,
Ned
Caveat
wrote:
>LOL! Oh no not the Better Business Bureau! Why not just send the
>camera store a "Thank You" card instead.
>
Correcto, Ned. As I have said here before: One needs to understand
that the Better Business Bureau is funded by businesses they are
supposed to be monitoring. This is not an unbiased governmental
consumer protection agency, but one that was formed by business to
avert real governmental oversight and prevent meaningful consumer
protection. And the *voluntary self-policing* scam worked -- consumers
lose in most cases. All the BBB does is serve as an intermediary in a
time-wasting exchange of letters. They are toothless.
Caveat
David Wallis
> victor> I purchased a $300 camera using my bank's debit Mastercard
> victor> from an online merchant.
>
> If you had used a credit card, the situation would be simple: Write
> a letter to your bank, explain that the merchandise was never
> received, and they would reverse the charge.
>
> I believe that with a debit card, you have no rights beyond what
> your bank chooses to give you. If I am right, your only recourse is
> to contact your bank, explain the situation to them, and hope that
> they will do something reasonable.
The OP needs to check is card agreement and/or call the issuing
bank. Some debit cards specifically provide the same
fraud/unauthorized use protection as a credit card. My credit union
added that when they switched from ATM to debit cards, after members
complained about the potential for fraud.
--
David Wallis
SoCalMike
> Debit cards have been around alot longer in Canada. It was a much simpler
> introduction - the banks just made your ATM card a debit card. Though
there
> are ATM fees if you don't use your own bank's card, there is no fee to use
a
> debit card at a merchant -hence its no different than cash.
>
> It is much more convenient. They are in no way tied to credit cards, no
fee
> to get one. There are grocery stores and even convenience stores which
don't
> accept credit cards but do accept debit cards, which is strange because
you
> can use the same equipment for both. Costco used to not accept credit
cards,
they had their own credit card, then had an exclusive deal with discover.
then they switched to amex.
v
>... Some debit cards specifically provide the same
>fraud/unauthorized use protection as a credit card....
>
Problem 1: it is not unauthorized use. He made the purchase.
Problem 2: is it "fraud"? or is it an error? that is not so obvious
from here.
-v.
Patricia
wal...@jedi.aps.anl.gov wrote on 5/16/03 2:55 PM:
> The OP needs to check is card agreement and/or call the issuing
> bank. Some debit cards specifically provide the same
> fraud/unauthorized use protection as a credit card. My credit union
> added that when they switched from ATM to debit cards, after members
> complained about the potential for fraud.
=======
That's what I thought.
I suggested a phone call to the credit/debit card issuer might be the right
thing to do....doesn't hurt to ask, right ?
Patricia
The Real Bev
I once called the local BBB to see if complaints had been lodged against a
business. They told me that they didn't do that, but if I wanted to lodge
a complaint myself they would send me a form.
Write-only memory.
--
Cheers,
Bev
------------------------------------------------------------------
It doesn't matter who you vote for, the government always gets in.
Me
v.viv...@verizon.net (v) wrote:
> On Thu, 15 May 2003 23:44:10 GMT, someone wrote:
>
> >> I purchased a $300 camera using my bank's debit Mastercard from an online
> >> merchant.
> >
> >If it's been processed on your Mastercard....you can call them and stop
> >payment. Do this at once.
> >
> Can you "stop payment" on a DEBIT card? Isn't the money already out
> of his account? Now he has to get it back, and yes, sure, tell his
> card issuer (that's not the same as calling "Mastercard", is it?).
That's my understanding. The only time I use my ATM debit card is when
I am grocery shopping and I am light on cash. That way, I can save a
trip to the ATM and get extra cash back from the grocery store. The
money comes out of my checking account the next day or two.
> A prime example of why I would never want a debit card. If I bought
> this on a credit card, I could protest it BEFORE the money was out of
> my acount.
>
> I do use an ATM card, because I know right on the spot that I have my
> money. I would never order online, mail or phone using a debit card.
> But then, I won't use a debit card anyway.
I agree completely with you. Paying for an online order with a debit
card is not sensible. Be that as it may, the OP certainly has nothing
to lose by contacting the card's issuer to discuss his complaint. He
might also contact the local post office to find out about submitting
a claim for mail fraud, and/or perhaps sue the vendor in small claims
court.
cozy
2-300 a month. They don't take credit, but since debit is the same as
having cash, they accept it. I hate to carry cash, so I use the debit
card. But I would not use a debit card on anything that one would have a
guarantee on, because credit cards are supposed to double that. And you
can have some leverage with companies, even though that can still turn bad
if the credit company removes their charge, and the company turns around and
sues you directly.
--
The Real Bev <bas...@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:3EC44AAD...@myrealbox.com...
jh...@mindspring.com
wrote:
>if the credit company removes their charge, and the company turns around and
>sues you directly.
They may try to do that but according to the Federal Credit Laws they
can not collect from you if the credit card company reverses a charge
Barbara Bomberger
<bas...@myrealbox.com> wrote:
>v wrote:
>
>> I do use an ATM card, because I know right on the spot that I have my
>> money. I would never order online, mail or phone using a debit card.
>> But then, I won't use a debit card anyway.
>
>The use of debit cards is proof that humanity, or at least the USAn part
>of it, is going to hell in a handbasket. The only possible advantage is
>that stores might accept a debit card, but not a credit card. Are there
>stores like that? Would any sane person shop there?
Well, and then there are people like me (stupid or not). Im overseas,
I dont want a credit card (I have one I use for business travel from
my company only). But because I order a fair amount online (and from
various countries), I want ot have the check card.
YOu know, I keep hearing people grumbling, moaning, and saying how
stupid it is, but Ive used a check card since the beginning of when
there were check cards and I have never had a problem. I have used
them online, over the phone and in person.
I never use mine as a debit card, only a check card.
Never thought of it as deserving of being ripped off................
Barb
Barbara Bomberger
wrote:
>
>"The Real Bev" <bas...@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
>news:3EC44AAD...@myrealbox.com...
>> v wrote:
>>
>> > I do use an ATM card, because I know right on the spot that I have my
>> > money. I would never order online, mail or phone using a debit card.
>> > But then, I won't use a debit card anyway.
>>
>> The use of debit cards is proof that humanity, or at least the USAn part
>> of it, is going to hell in a handbasket. The only possible advantage is
>> that stores might accept a debit card, but not a credit card. Are there
>> stores like that? Would any sane person shop there?
>
>Debit cards have been around alot longer in Canada. It was a much simpler
>introduction - the banks just made your ATM card a debit card. Though there
>are ATM fees if you don't use your own bank's card, there is no fee to use a
>debit card at a merchant -hence its no different than cash.
And here in Europe that have the Europe card that is tied to the bank.
Same as a debit card. They take credit card at very few places
around here, but that thing everywhere.
But then, they dont have paper checks in Germany either anymore.
Everything is a bank to bank payment for bills.
Barb
Brian Kirby
news:3ec4409...@news.verizon.net...
> On Thu, 15 May 2003 23:44:10 GMT, someone wrote:
>
> >> I purchased a $300 camera using my bank's debit
Mastercard from an online
> >> merchant.
> >
> >If it's been processed on your Mastercard....you can call
them and stop
> >payment. Do this at once.
> >
> Can you "stop payment" on a DEBIT card? Isn't the money
already out
> of his account? Now he has to get it back, and yes, sure,
tell his
> card issuer (that's not the same as calling "Mastercard",
is it?).
>
I have been able to dispute a transaction on my debit card
before. It was really simple. I went to my bank with a
statement that had the charge, and then filled out a simple
form. The money was then credited to my account while they
conducted an investigation. I would defiantly go to the bank
but also try other ways to get it back. I had somebody
charge Internet services to my debt card without my
authorization and I got every cent back.
Brian Kirby
James Linn
"SoCalMike" <mikein562...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2Iaxa.906161$S_4.919556@rwcrnsc53...
>
>
> > Debit cards have been around alot longer in Canada. It was a much
simpler
> > introduction - the banks just made your ATM card a debit card. Though
> there
> > are ATM fees if you don't use your own bank's card, there is no fee to
use
> a
> > debit card at a merchant -hence its no different than cash.
> >
> > It is much more convenient. They are in no way tied to credit cards, no
> fee
> > to get one. There are grocery stores and even convenience stores which
> don't
> > accept credit cards but do accept debit cards, which is strange because
> you
> > can use the same equipment for both. Costco used to not accept credit
> cards,
>
> they had their own credit card, then had an exclusive deal with discover.>
then they switched to amex.
Costco/Price Club didn't arrive here(Ontario Canada) till ten years or so
ago(merge took place just after the first stores got established). They
never had their own credit cards here, but even then accepted debit cards
from the start. Discover card is also not in Canada, so it wasn't until the
Costco Amex that they had a Canadian credit card acceptance. I found that
funny cause back in the 80s, there was an attempt on some merchants to not
accept Amex - as Visa and MC had a much lower merchant fee(2 - 2.5%) than
Amex (4%). Some Toronto restaurants tried a boycott without success.
The last frontier for debit cards is fast food. Wendy's had them a few years
ago, and McDs still has locations where they don't have them. In some
locations they have located white label ATMs to try and satisfy the need -
and make some money with those $1.50 fees for every withdrawl.
James Linn
SoCalMike
>
> The last frontier for debit cards is fast food. Wendy's had them a few
years
> ago, and McDs still has locations where they don't have them. In some
> locations they have located white label ATMs to try and satisfy the need -
> and make some money with those $1.50 fees for every withdrawl.
so how come if you go to wendys and get food, you get charged a fee, but if
you go to the grocery store, theres no fee, and you can even get money back?
weird.
James Linn
Not sure how it works in the US, but in Canada, with debit cards that are
ATM cards, you don't pay at a merchant, the merchant pays. If you make a
withdrawal at a non-bank ATM, you pay your bank fees, and the ATM fees. So a
$4.99 combo at Wendys with a debit card would be 4.99, and taking $20 out of
the bank at the McDs would cost you up to $2.00 more.
These things do add up.
James Linn
Ron Clarey
<rsc...@tampabay.rr.com> writes
I agree with Patricia this has happened to me a few times and I have
always got my money back.
--
Ron Clarey
Translaters.net
http://www.translaters.net
pero...@msn.com
were informed to "stop" the payment fromg going through. These days,
payments are issued rather quickly when credit cards are used. Ask
for a manager at your credit card company to see how they can help
you. You see, they didn't "steal" your card so I don't know how your
lenient your credit card company will be. I know I'd CANCEL that card
since disreputable people now have your card number.
Have you asked for anything in writing regarding them saying they sent
your merchandise to the incorrect address? You're definitely not
responsible for merchandise that was never received.
I know I had to get the Better Business Bureau and the Commonwealth
where I live when Carpet Company tried to get over 1,000.00 from me
for a 25% distribution fee. I had all kinds of dates when I called,
who I spoke to and what was said to me. The company was REALLY
disreputable. They'd already been reported to the Better Business
Bureau before, too. They "threat" of their name being on record for
something like 5 years is not something they like at all. You see,
it's your word against theirs. I'd spoken with a few people in the
Commonwealth where I live. They're really just an arbitor, but working
with both groups worked. The company dropped the bogus charge they
tried to levy against me. I'm fortunate to have had a witness with me
when I went up to the company who heard one of the managers (he'd said
he was a manager, but I was told later by a very rude lady later that
she was the sole manager) say he'd "eat" the charges. He received a
call IN FRONT OF US and told the person he was talking to please
charge them a small fee since they'd been working together for 10
years. He said it's been taking care of and that the small charge can
be written off as a business expense to them. It was a LOT more
involved. I tried to give you the abbreviate version. ALWAYS,
document things and if you have emails you've sent, that counts, too.
GOOD LUCK in getting this resolved. I know it can be a big pain.
Hang in there...
Ron Clarey <r...@Eskapa.com> wrote in message news:<+D9qHDBJI$x+E...@Eskapa.com>...
v
>> Debit cards have been around alot longer in Canada. It was a much simpler
>> introduction - the banks just made your ATM card a debit card....
>>
They often tried doing that in the US, also. They tried it with me,
and I refused to accept the debit card with the M/C coding. I
insisted they re-issue me a regular ATM card.
>>there are ATM fees if you don't use your own bank's card, there is no fee to use
>>a debit card at a merchant -
>>
no visible fee to the customer, but there certainly *is* a fee to the
merchant. the reasonableness of which (absent the anti-trust
violating coercion that M/C and VISA put on the merchants to take the
debit cards) was the cause of litigation that has led M/C and VISA to
cough up hundreds of millions of US $ to settle.
>>hence its no different than cash.
>>
waaaaay different from cash....
-v.
v
>I dont want a credit card (I have one I use for business travel from
>my company only).
>
Notice that your employer doesn't give out debit cards. They no
better than to put something out there, that can suck money directly
out of their account. The need to separately approve the payment to
the credit card is the extra safeguard we are talking about.
> But because I order a fair amount online (and from
>various countries), I want ot have the check card.
>
But that is hardly a reason to want a debit card. (Or to write a
check.) Ordering on line is better with a credit card. None of your
money need leave your account until after you have the merchandise in
hand with a chance to inspect it.
>YOu know, I keep hearing people grumbling, moaning, and saying how
>stupid it is,...
>
I have neither grumbled nor moaned.
>I never use mine as a debit card, only a check card.
>
Huh? How is what you are doing, diferent from using it as a debit
card? It is, and you are.
>Never thought of it as deserving of being ripped off................
>
I wouldn't say you *deserved* it, but you are taking more of a chance.
-v.
v
>But then, they dont have paper checks in Germany either anymore.
>Everything is a bank to bank payment for bills.
>
I don't write paper checks to merchants.
We do use paper checks in our business and personal accounts. Maybe
someday will convert to on-line, but feel no compelling reason to at
this moment.
-v.
v
>... I had somebody
>charge Internet services to my debt card without my
>authorization and I got every cent back.
>
That's fine, but the point is, you had to "get it back". It came out
to begin with. You had to get it restored. Suppose they hit your
account hard and wiped it out while you were travelling. That is much
less likely to occur using credit cards, which do not take the money
out of your checking account without additional action on your part
(unless you have it autodraft, but then you still have the float
period....)
-v..
v
> taking $20 out of
>the bank at the McDs would cost you up to $2.00 more.
>
Good reason not to take so little as $20.
A $2 fee is ten percent of $20, but only 1% of $200.
I never take less than $200 at a fee ATM. I was recently in Vegas and
was surprised that the casino ATM gave out hundred dollar bills! (No,
I *don't* gamble, but I was staying in the casino hotel.)
-v.
D. Gerasimatos
v <v.viv...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>I never take less than $200 at a fee ATM. I was recently in Vegas and
>was surprised that the casino ATM gave out hundred dollar bills! (No,
>I *don't* gamble, but I was staying in the casino hotel.)
I do gamble, but I learned something in Las Vegas by watching a friend
do it. (Don't try this at home.) The casinos is Las Vegas will charge
your credit card and give you cash for the amount. They are *not* doing
a cash advance and there is no fee for doing a cash advance. They are
merely charging the amount to your account as if it was a good or service,
but instead you can get it in cash. There is no charge for this at many
casinos and only a nominal charge (1%?) at others.
Dimitri
Andrew Koenig
> cash for the amount. They are *not* doing a cash advance and there
> is no fee for doing a cash advance. They are merely charging the
> amount to your account as if it was a good or service, but instead
> you can get it in cash.
In that case, I strongly suspect that they are violating their
agreement with the credit-card company. Either that, or they have
some kind of special arrangements.
--
Andrew Koenig, a...@research.att.com, http://www.research.att.com/info/ark
D. Gerasimatos
Andrew Koenig <a...@research.att.com> wrote:
>
>In that case, I strongly suspect that they are violating their
>agreement with the credit-card company. Either that, or they have
>some kind of special arrangements.
Why are they not violating their agreement if you spend $1000/night on your
room but violating it if you spend $1000/night in the casino (and get a
free room)? It is the casino absorbing most of the risk. It's their cash.
If there is a special agreement that's probably what it says, that the
casino absorbs all of the risk. You don't even need a credit card to get
cash from the casino if you have a line with them, but I thought that this
information might be useful to people who go to Vegas and are not
gamblers.
Dimitri
Andrew Koenig
> on your room but violating it if you spend $1000/night in the casino
> (and get a free room)? It is the casino absorbing most of the
> risk. It's their cash.
The reason is that credit cards treat cash advances and purchases
differently. Sometimes they have different interest rates. Usually,
cash advances do not have the 25-day grace period before interest
charges start that purchases normally have.
I suspect that part of the reason for treating cash advances
differently is so that you do not keep two credit cards, and
repeatedly take out a cash advance on one of them to pay the
balance on the other, thereby avoiding interest charges.
cozy
happy to report that my attention to being frugal has resulted in finally
having a balance that I keep in my account!--
James Linn <jl...@idirect.com> wrote in message
news:vc9u1c5...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "The Real Bev" <bas...@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
> news:3EC44AAD...@myrealbox.com...
> > v wrote:
> >
> > > I do use an ATM card, because I know right on the spot that I have my
> > > money. I would never order online, mail or phone using a debit card.
> > > But then, I won't use a debit card anyway.
> >
> > The use of debit cards is proof that humanity, or at least the USAn part
> > of it, is going to hell in a handbasket. The only possible advantage is
> > that stores might accept a debit card, but not a credit card. Are there
> > stores like that? Would any sane person shop there?
>
> Debit cards have been around alot longer in Canada. It was a much simpler
> introduction - the banks just made your ATM card a debit card. Though
there
> are ATM fees if you don't use your own bank's card, there is no fee to use
a
> debit card at a merchant -hence its no different than cash.
>
> It is much more convenient. They are in no way tied to credit cards, no
fee
> to get one. There are grocery stores and even convenience stores which
don't
> accept credit cards but do accept debit cards, which is strange because
you
> can use the same equipment for both. Costco used to not accept credit
cards,
cozy
Most banks don't charge you fees if you keep a balance of a certain amount.
But you may find merchants that charge you, so if you are using it some
place new, it doesn't hurt to ask if the store is going to charge you a fee.
--
SoCalMike <mikein562...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4xAxa.9849$rt6.3206@sccrnsc02...
D. Gerasimatos
Andrew Koenig <a...@research.att.com> wrote:
>
>The reason is that credit cards treat cash advances and purchases
>differently. Sometimes they have different interest rates. Usually,
>cash advances do not have the 25-day grace period before interest
>charges start that purchases normally have.
Of course they do. This is why I am stressing that THIS WAS NOT A CASH
ADVANCE repeatedly.
Dimitri
Andrew Koenig
> CASH ADVANCE repeatedly.
And it is also why I am stressing repeatedly that if they give you
cash, and do not treat it as a cash advance, they are probably
violating their agreement with the credit-card company.
--
Ron Clarey
>Ron - First, I'm sorry to hear about your problem.
Pero
It was not my problem it was Patricias. I merely added my bit on the end
of her statement. Happily in my case the problem was sorted out by the
credit card company who compared signatures and billed me for the money
I owed them, not the money some one tried to take from my account. I
bought some petrol (gas) from a petrol(gas) station and I had been
charged for the equivalent of three tank fulls worth of petrol(gas) on
the same day. This was not very bright because a tank full usually lasts
me a week, so I kind of noticed these transactions.
D. Gerasimatos
Andrew Koenig <a...@research.att.com> wrote:
>> Of course they do. This is why I am stressing that THIS WAS NOT A
>> CASH ADVANCE repeatedly.
>
>And it is also why I am stressing repeatedly that if they give you
>cash, and do not treat it as a cash advance, they are probably
>violating their agreement with the credit-card company.
What evidence do you have for this claim? I produced in this thread
anecdotal evidence from a VISA employee who claims that "quasi-cash"
is at the discretion of the card issuer, not the merchant's POS vendor.
It's time for you to "probably" produce some evidence otherwise.
Dimitri
The Real Bev
>
> > Of course they do. This is why I am stressing that THIS WAS NOT A
> > CASH ADVANCE repeatedly.
>
> And it is also why I am stressing repeatedly that if they give you
> cash, and do not treat it as a cash advance, they are probably
> violating their agreement with the credit-card company.
So turn the bastards in. There may be a reward.
--
Cheers,
Bev
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"If you see me running, try to keep up."
...Back of bomb technician's shirt
Patricia
on 5/20/03 5:29 PM:
> "pero...@msn.com" <pero...@msn.com> writes
>> Ron - First, I'm sorry to hear about your problem.
>
> Pero
>
> It was not my problem it was Patricias.
==========
That's funny !
It wasn't my problem either. I can't remember who made the original post.
Patricia
Relatively problem free in Florida
v
>... This was not very bright because a tank full usually lasts
>me a week, so I kind of noticed these transactions.
>--
Bright has nothing to do with it. The person who stole wanted free
gas, and he got it (free to him). He doesn't give a rats ass about
whether you or the company paid the bill, *he* got away with his end
of it. He doesn't care if you "noticed" later, he already has the
gas. He was not out to swindle you specifically. He wanted gas. He
got it. Worked for him.
-v.
Ron Clarey
<v.viv...@verizon.net> writes
No it didn't the gas company made him pay it back and a lot of other
peoples too.
M
about it....
"victor" <vict...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:6IadnUbs3-I...@comcast.com...
Don K
news:M8cDa.32990$Io.28...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
The answer to your 2nd question is that you should start using a
credit card rather than a debit card. With the same scenario, if you
called the credit card company they would probably reverse the charge.
Don
D. Gerasimatos
Don K <dk@dont_bother_me.com> wrote:
>
>The answer to your 2nd question is that you should start using a
>credit card rather than a debit card. With the same scenario, if you
>called the credit card company they would probably reverse the charge.
I see this advice often, but it does not really frame the issues well.
Here you are implying that the bank will reverse the charge for a credit
card, but not for a debit card. This is certainly false. The charge can
be reversed with either card.
The main disadvantage of using the debit card is that it is *your* money
that floats during the period when the bank is doing the investigation
instead of the bank's money. This can cause a lot of problems with bounced
checks and such until the money is refunded. With a credit card it isn't
an issue.
When a debit card with a VISA/MasterCard logo is used, it is provided
protections similar to (but not exactly the same as) those of a credit card.
http://www.usa.visa.com/personal/secure_with_visa/zero_liability.html
There is a caveat, which is that for a debit card the fraudulent
transaction must be reported within 48 hours to have a $50 liability limit
(same limit as a credit card). After 48 hours, the bank can (at its discretion)
legally invoke a $500 limit. Many banks have opted to voluntarily lower
the limit to $50, but this is not the law. Also, with a debit card the
owner only has a 60 day window from receiving a statement to file a dispute.
This is not true with a credit card.
So, there are many reasons to use a credit card instead. I agree with
that. However, it's not as if his money is lost just because he used a
debit card. He is afforded protections.
Dimitri
jh...@mindspring.com
(D. Gerasimatos) wrote:
>
>There is a caveat, which is that for a debit card the fraudulent
>transaction must be reported within 48 hours to have a $50 liability limit
>(same limit as a credit card). After 48 hours, the bank can (at its discretion)
>legally invoke a $500 limit. Many banks have opted to voluntarily lower
>the limit to $50, but this is not the law. Also, with a debit card the
>owner only has a 60 day window from receiving a statement to file a dispute.
>This is not true with a credit card.
>
You also have failed to mention the trend for many banks NOT to be so
liberal with regard to paying out in cases where there is fraud
involved with the use of a debit card!
An article relating to fraud at ATMS with debit cards appeared in the
LA Times in April:
April 15, 2003 E-mail story Print
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-atm15apr15,1,5238105.story
Consumers, Banks Clash as ATM Fraud Escalates
As claims rise, some financial institutions are taking a tougher
stance when it comes to giving customers their money back.
By E. Scott Reckard, Times Staff Writer
Despite bank promises of "zero liability" for customers victimized by
automated teller machine fraud, getting credit for stolen funds isn't
always automatic, as Kelly Quick of Studio City learned recently.
In January, Quick discovered that someone had tapped ATMs to siphon
$1,420 from his Bank of America checking account. He notified the
bank, and the missing funds were credited to his account while BofA
looked into the matter.
After about three weeks, the bank took the money back, saying it had
"determined that the transactions in question were authorized."
The withdrawals at branches in Hollywood, Canoga Park and Sherman Oaks
were indeed made using Quick's personal identification number. But his
ATM card had not been lost or stolen, and he had not disclosed his PIN
to anyone.
Quick, a 33-year-old compliance officer for a Los Angeles investment
advisory firm, complained angrily to the bank. After a month of what
both sides describe as intense exchanges, BofA again returned the
money to his account.
That's proof, said spokesman Ken Preston, of the bank's willingness to
work with customers who believe they have been wronged.
But Quick's experience with BofA highlights something else: the
growing friction between banks and their customers as crooks use
increasingly innovative tactics to rob ATM machines.
jh...@mindspring.com
>Call your local Better Business Bureau - they should be able to do something
>about it....
What do you think the BBB can do for a consumer? They are not in the
consumer protection business and have no clout in dealing with
merchants, even those that are members of BBB!
Aaron
card (I entered my pin # at the merchant) and was told by the bank that
nothing can be done. However, I've successfully made claims when using a
credit card and never had a problem.
Back to the original poster, if you used this card over the phone, unless
you gave them your PIN number, the card was most likley used as a credit
card, not a debit card. Then, you can just call the card company, tell them
whta happened, and they will reverse the charges and investigate.
Aaron
"D. Gerasimatos" <d...@soda.csua.berkeley.edu> wrote in message
news:bbjn3h$1ehq$1...@agate.berkeley.edu...
D. Gerasimatos
<Jim...@alumni.liu.edu> wrote:
>
>You also have failed to mention the trend for many banks NOT to be so
>liberal with regard to paying out in cases where there is fraud
>involved with the use of a debit card!
>
>An article relating to fraud at ATMS with debit cards appeared in the
>LA Times in April:
ATM transaction != debit card transaction
Dimitri
D. Gerasimatos
Aaron <amheck...@attglobal.net> wrote:
>
>I would disagree. I wanted to dispute a charge made with my card as a debit
>card (I entered my pin # at the merchant) and was told by the bank that
>nothing can be done. However, I've successfully made claims when using a
>credit card and never had a problem.
This is also not a debit card transaction. This is EFT. Any ATM card
could've been used, with or without the VISA/Mastercard logo. Do you see
the difference?
Dimitri