Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory
know buddee
By Medea Benjamin, AlterNet. Posted August 18, 2004.
Go to the barrios of Caracas, and it becomes obvious why the recall
effort against Hugo Chavez failed: providing people with free health
care, education, small business loans and job training is a good way
to win the hearts and minds of the people.
When the rule of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez was reaffirmed in a
landslide 58-42 percent victory on Sunday, the opposition who put the
recall vote on the ballot was stunned. They obviously don't spend much
time in the nation's poor neighborhoods.
I knew Chavez would win the referendum when I met Olivia Delfino in a
poor Caracas barrio that our international election delegation
visited. Olivia came running out of her tiny house and grabbed my arm.
"Tell the people of your country that we love Hugo Chavez," she
insisted. She went on to tell me how her life had changed since he
came to power. After living in the barrio for 40 years, she now had a
formal title to her home and a bank loan to fix the roof so it
wouldn't leak. Thanks to the Cuban dentists and a program called
"Rescatando la sonrisa" – recovering the smile – for the first time in
her life she was able to get her teeth fixed. And her daughter is in a
job training program to become a nurse's assistant.
Getting more and more animated, Olivia dragged me over to a poster on
the wall showing Hugo Chavez with a throng of followers and a list of
Venezuela's new social programs that read: "The social programs are
ours, let's defend them." Then slowly and laboriously, she began
reading the list of social programs: literacy, health care, job
training, land reform, subsidized food, small loans. I asked her if
she was just learning to read and write as part of the literacy
program. That's when she started crying. "Can you imagine what's it
has meant to me, at 52 years old, to now have a chance to read?" she
said. "It's transformed my life."
Walk through poor barrios in Venezuela and you'll hear the same
stories over and over. The very poor can now go to a designated home
in the neighborhood to pick up a hot meal every day. The elderly have
monthly pensions that allow them to live with dignity. Young people
can take advantage of greatly expanded free college programs. And with
13,000 Cuban doctors spread throughout the country and reaching over
half the population, the poor now have their own family doctors on
call 24-hours a day – doctors who even make house calls. This heath
care, including medicines, are all free.
The programs are being paid for with the income from Venezuela's oil,
which is at an all-time high. Previously, the nation's oil wealth
benefited only a small, well-connected elite who kept themselves in
power for 40 years through an electoral duopoly. The vast majority in
this oil-rich nation remained poor, disenfranchised, and disempowered.
With the election of Hugo Chavez in 1998 on a platform of sharing the
nation's oil wealth with the poorest, all that has changed. The poor
are now not only recipients of these programs, they are actively
engaged in running them. They're turning abandoned buildings into
neighborhood centers, running community kitchens, volunteering to
teach in the literacy programs and organizing neighborhood health
brigades.
Infuriated by their loss of power, the elite have used their control
over the media to blast Chavez for destroying the economy, cozying up
to Fidel Castro, antagonizing the US government, expropriating private
property, and governing through dictatorial rule.
The opposition managed to collect enough signatures to trigger this
Sunday's referendum on the president's mandate. Chavez supporters,
bolstered by almost every poll, expected to win. "The opposition can
lie all they want about Chavez," said Olivia defiantly, "but the facts
speak for themselves. Before no one cared about us, the poor. Now they
do."
The opposition accuse Chavez of using the social programs that have so
improved the lives of the poor as a way to gain voters. In this, the
opposition is right: providing people with free health care,
education, small business loans and job training is certainly a good
way to win the hearts and minds of the people.
Sunday's overwhelming victory for Chavez has given him an even
stronger mandate for his "revolution for the poor." It should also
give George Bush and John Kerry reason to rethink their attitude
towards Hugo Chavez. Rather than demonizing him as a new Fidel Castro
and stoking the opposition, US leaders should embrace Venezuela's
social transformation and the way it is empowering people like Olivia
Delfino.
Medea Benjamin, co-founder of the human rights group Global Exchange
and the women's peace group CodePink, is an election observer in
Venezuela.
Copied from: http://www.alternet.org/story/19585/
=============
There will be many more righteous powerful political leaders like
Chavez in the world as time goes on - who will be deserving of the
people's love and admiration. The time is coming when politicians who
are little more than puppets for the rich will be a sad aspect of the
past.
KB
=============
"Man must change or die. There is no other course."
The World Teacher
http://www.share-international.org
Tracy
Ignoramus22762 wrote:
>Some random notes here, from someone who is trying to be a realist.
>
>1. The "elite" attempt to steal as much as possible from the poor, has
>backfired and by now, they realized that they should have shared a tad
>more.
>
How could anyone get rich enough to be elite by stealing from the poor?
I never see lawyers like John Edwards get rich by suing poor people,
that why they target doctors and small business owners. They sue people
with money. Much easier to get rich that way.
If you have a job, I bet the person employing you is not poor. Why?
Poor people couldn't pay you anything and you won't work for free.
Robin Hood stole from the rich and gave to the poor. Why? Poor people
were much less heavily defended so they should have been easier to rob.
But they were poor. Therefore robbing them would be a waste of time.
The United States Government takes 80% of its taxes money from the top
20% of earners. Why? Its easier to get elected by taxing 20% at high
rates and 80% at less high rates than to tax 100% at the same higher rate.
The Soviet Union went bankrupt. Why? Everyone was poor. It couldn't
be a superpower by robbing poor people.
Castro has been in charge of Cuba for half a century and the Cubans are
poorer now than ever. There are no capitalists in Cuba to rob the
poor. Just Castro. Cuba was second only to the United States in
economic power in the Western Hemisphere prior to Castro. Castro's
first move was to steal all the money the rich had. Now everyone in
Cuba is dirt poor. There are no more rich, no good paying jobs, and
everyone is equally miserable. No one to blame but your communist
friend Castro. How does Castro keep his head above water? He gets
regular doses of western capital from tourists that visit beaches that
are closed to ordinary Cubans.
Salesmen always compete hardest for clients with the most money. They
would starve otherwise.
Your communist friends in China are the only ones smart enough to ignore
the dogma they teach to little deluded dupes like you. They have
capitalized their economy because they know they can't win world
domination by being a nation of peasants. They haven't figured out that
wealth will destroy their ruling class status when money will make the
middle class more powerful than they are just like money in the hands of
the middle class toppled the noble class of Europe.
>
>2. This newfangled shower of socialized benefits to the poor will last
>only as long as high oil prices.
>
Of course. This goes whether a communist is in charge or a capitalist.
No money, no benefits. See how simple it is. By the way, oil is still
cheap. It will get expensive, but its still cheap for now.
>
>3. The administration of George W Bush alienated Venezuelans by
>supporting the anti-Chavez coup a few years ago. As usual, the stupid
>and doctrinaire policies of this alcoholic president, actually hurt
>the US standing instead of enhancing it.
>
Supporting communists never helped anyone. Unless they are
pathologically inclined to love hearing lies.
Barbarossa
"Tracy" <tr...@ev1.net> schreef in bericht
news:10i7r09...@corp.supernews.com...
I hereby recommend to nominate you for the award of being the most
cynical poster of the day.
Take a good look in the eden of capitalists the USA. One out of 8 is
living beneath the povertyline.
Middleclass families can hardly deal with inflation. The price of oil will
only increase the coming years. When Clinton came to office in 1992
there was a huge budgetdisaster caused by Reagan/Bush. In 1998 the
budget was much better. Now, 4 years of Bush and the budget is a real
disaster again. Who is going to pay for these deficits? Certainly not the
rich!
The "verelendung" has just begun in the USA!
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)
wrote in alt.fan.art-bell in message
<4123f471$0$3539$ba62...@news.skynet.be>:
>Take a good look in the eden of capitalists the USA. One out of 8 is
>living beneath the povertyline.
With electricity, indoor plumbing, hot&cold running water, central
heat, at least one phone, a cell phone, a TV with cable, a computer,
Internet access, a video game console, a microwave oven, at least one
car, and probably at least one credit card. That's your 'poverty
line'. Your grandparents would laugh you off the face of the planet.
--
V.G.
Change pobox dot alaska to gci.
"I wanted a car I could run down pedestrians with. But one with a comfy ride, like a sofa on wheels." - Father Haskell
"No doubt about it, 9-11 was orchestrated by Lockheed." - *lexa 'connects the dots' 4/27/04 (cg5t80pl73d7r1s81...@4ax.com)
"Nope, Lockheed provided the cover for 9-11 due to abuses of it's system. They're guilty as charged. But ultimately it was Bechtel who concocted the
9-11 events." Alexa connects some totally different dots. 8/6/04 (n3p8h0lvp0u3tj0j4...@4ax.com)
Sarcasm is my sword, Apathy is my shield.
You Know Who
> Some random notes here, from someone who is trying to be a realist.
>
> 1. The "elite" attempt to steal as much as possible from the poor, has
> backfired and by now, they realized that they should have shared a tad
> more.
>
> only as long as high oil prices.
>
> supporting the anti-Chavez coup a few years ago. As usual, the stupid
> and doctrinaire policies of this alcoholic president, actually hurt
> the US standing instead of enhancing it.
>
>
Cubans and Colombians
as his muscle.
You Know Who
Gunner
>
>Take a good look in the eden of capitalists the USA. One out of 8 is
>living beneath the povertyline.
"Poverty line" as defined, is the life 80% of the rest of the planet
aspires to.
http://www.census.gov/hhes/poverty/povdef.html
>
>Middleclass families can hardly deal with inflation. The price of oil will
>only increase the coming years. When Clinton came to office in 1992
>there was a huge budgetdisaster caused by Reagan/Bush. In 1998 the
>budget was much better. Now, 4 years of Bush and the budget is a real
>disaster again. Who is going to pay for these deficits? Certainly not the
>rich
Inflation? It dropped .2 percent in July, and has been averageing .3%
for three years
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20040818/IBUSUS18/TPBusiness/International
You live on what planet? Clinton rode in on the Reagan Boom..which
ran for almost 17 yrs. In the final quarter of the Clinton
administration..he managed to piss it all away and we "enjoyed" over 3
yrs of recession, which is now over thanks to Bush and we are doing
marvelously
http://www.insightmag.com/news/2004/05/28/National/Bush-Economy.Is.Best.Since.Reagan.Boom-683556.shtml
The Clinton budget surplus was smoke and mirrors
http://www.worldfreeinternet.net/news/nws174.htm
Deficits?
"On average, Bill Clinton’s deficits were larger than George W.
Bush’s. On average, the Clinton deficits over the first three years of
that administration were much larger than Bush’s. The 2004 deficit,
adjusted for inflation, is ranked 12th since 1940. The 2004 deficit,
as a percent of GDP, is ranked 21st since 1940. The top five deficits
run in this country happened while Democrats were in the White House."
http://www.nationalreview.com/nrof_comment/comment-bowyer021303.asp
Now about your bud Kerry..lets talk about all the promises he has been
making and future deficits....
http://www.al.com/opinion/mobileregister/index.ssf?/base/opinion/1091524645300180.xml
http://www.casesladder.com/wwwcurr/messages/97.shtml
"This is what the news media does not tell you while allowing
democrats to make an issue of the deficit. The increased government
spending to cover all of Kerry's promises and proposals equals
$2,078,900,000,000 (over 2 trillion dollars) in additional spending.
And his proposal to increase taxes on only those making over $200,000
will raise, generously estimated, $300 billion, or 14.4% of the cost
of his proposals and promises.
Kerry's promises are a prescription for killing the economic recovery,
which will decrease government revenues and make the above figures
actually worse. For most people, dealing in figures this large is
inconceivable or they have trouble relating to them, but the financial
future of everyone and the country are at risk. We cannot afford over
two trillion in additional spending beyond today's current levels."
Does the DNC pay you to shill for them, or are you simply ignorant of
economics and todays reality?
Gunner
"In my humble opinion, the petty carping levied against Bush by
the Democrats proves again, it is better to have your eye plucked
out by an eagle than to be nibbled to death by ducks." - Norman
Liebmann
Gunner
<vgor...@pobox.alaska.net> wrote:
>On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 02:29:49 +0200, "Barbarossa" <fa07...@skynet.be>
>wrote in alt.fan.art-bell in message
><4123f471$0$3539$ba62...@news.skynet.be>:
>
>>Take a good look in the eden of capitalists the USA. One out of 8 is
>>living beneath the povertyline.
>
>With electricity, indoor plumbing, hot&cold running water, central
>heat, at least one phone, a cell phone, a TV with cable, a computer,
>Internet access, a video game console, a microwave oven, at least one
>car, and probably at least one credit card. That's your 'poverty
>line'. Your grandparents would laugh you off the face of the planet.
Ayup.
maff
> Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory
> By Medea Benjamin, AlterNet. Posted August 18, 2004.
>
The Importance of Hugo Chávez
http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=2784
By TARIQ ALI
The turn-out in Venezuela last Sunday was huge. 94.9 percent of the
electorate voted in the recall referendum. Venezuela, under its new
Constitution, permitted the right of the citizens to recall a
President before s/he had completed their term of office. No Western
democracy enshrines this right in a written or unwritten constitution.
Chavez' victory will have repercussions beyond the borders of
Venezuela. It is a triumph of the poor against the rich and it is a
lesson that Lula in Brazil and Kirchner in Argentina should study
closely. It was Fidel Castro, not Carter, whose advice to go ahead
with the referendum was crucial. Chavez put his trust in the people by
empowering them and they responded generously. The opposition will
only discredit itself further by challenging the results.
Hugo Chávez OR Chavez
http://news.google.com/news?q=Hugo%20%20Ch%C3%A1vez%20OR%20Chavez&num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wn
http://www.google.com/search?q=Hugo++Ch%C3%A1vez+OR+Chavez&num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&tab=nw&sa=N
Venezuelan Venezuelans Venezuela
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+Venezuelan+OR+Venezuelans+OR+Venezuela&sa=N&tab=gn
Barbarossa
"You Know Who" <Kerry...@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:IcXUc.53623$ih.9161@fed1read07...
Yes, sure. As soon a left politician wins an election it must be fraud! How
strange! International observers have declared the recall-vote fair, so
without
having been in Venezuela you actually have the nerve to say that you know
better than those international observers?
The problem with the USA is that it claims to be democratic, but it doesn't
respect democracies. Remember Allende in Chile 1973? He also won an
election.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
Strider
"Barbarossa" <fa07...@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:4124adb9$0$3544$ba62...@news.skynet.be...
>
> "You Know Who" <Kerry...@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
> news:IcXUc.53623$ih.9161@fed1read07...
> > Ignoramus22762 wrote:
> > > Some random notes here, from someone who is trying to be a realist.
> > >
> > > 1. The "elite" attempt to steal as much as possible from the poor, has
> > > backfired and by now, they realized that they should have shared a tad
> > > more.
> > >
> > > 2. This newfangled shower of socialized benefits to the poor will last
> > > only as long as high oil prices.
> > >
> > > 3. The administration of George W Bush alienated Venezuelans by
> > > supporting the anti-Chavez coup a few years ago. As usual, the stupid
> > > and doctrinaire policies of this alcoholic president, actually hurt
> > > the US standing instead of enhancing it.
> > >
> > >
> > He won through fraud. Most Venezuelans hate the asshole. He is importing
> > Cubans and Colombians
> > as his muscle.
>
> Yes, sure. As soon a left politician wins an election it must be fraud!
That's the way it works.
>How strange! International observers have declared the recall-vote fair, so
> without
> having been in Venezuela you actually have the nerve to say that you know
> better than those international observers?
"International observers" tend toward UN style socialists and cannot be
trusted, Jimmy carter included and especially.
>
> The problem with the USA is that it claims to be democratic, but it
doesn't
> respect democracies. Remember Allende in Chile 1973? He also won an
> election.
Allende presided over yet another failed Socialist/Communist regime and
represented a danger to US interests and the free world in general.
Strider
>
> Kind Regards,
> Barbarossa
>
>
Barbarossa
"Strider" <str...@usit.net> schreef in bericht
news:4124b778$1...@news.unc.edu...
Nope, that's the way you are brainwashed by reacionairy far-right forces.
> >How strange! International observers have declared the recall-vote fair,
so
> > without
> > having been in Venezuela you actually have the nerve to say that you
know
> > better than those international observers?
>
> "International observers" tend toward UN style socialists and cannot be
> trusted, Jimmy carter included and especially.
And your precious president Bush can be trusted? OK, where are the WMD
in Iraq. The only ones lying to the entire world are Bush, Powell, Cheney,
Rice and the rest of the satanic Freemasonry- and Skull and Bones club.
Please, before you even think of mingling into foreign elections or recalls,
please make sure you have your own house in order will you? Remember the
Florida disaster during the elections of November 2000? And then you want
to teach the world about elections, recalls and all kinds of results? Shees!
Former president Carter can at least present his Nobel-price for peace,
what can your president actually present? More wars to come! More
bodybags and the misery on the families.
> > The problem with the USA is that it claims to be democratic, but it
> doesn't
> > respect democracies. Remember Allende in Chile 1973? He also won an
> > election.
>
> Allende presided over yet another failed Socialist/Communist regime and
> represented a danger to US interests and the free world in general.
A small country in South America imposes a thread to US interests and the
free world in general. Where did we hear those lies as well? Saddam was
a threat to US interests and the free world no? Where are the WMD? The
only thing the US promotes, but also cannot stand is free trade. See, Iraq
was planning to sell it's oil to Russia, France and Germany. That was the
reason Bush and his clan lied to the world about a so called threat, about
so called links between Hussain and Al Quaida and so called WMD. Nothing
the Bush clan claimed was actually the truth and then you come here with a
straight face claiming that the international observators in Venezuela
cannot
be trusted. I know one thing and that is that the USA government cannot be
trusted anymore. They wage wars for drugs and oil and call it a war on
terror.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
Randy Day
[snip]
> in Iraq. The only ones lying to the entire world are Bush, Powell, Cheney,
> Rice and the rest of the satanic Freemasonry- and Skull and Bones club.
Don't get too complacent, then; ISTR
someone mentioning that Kerry is a
member, too.
--
R
Atheist Chair,
EAC Disciplinary Committee
Strider
Nope. If a Socialist/Communist can't cheat in an election, they just kill
the opposition.
>
> > >How strange! International observers have declared the recall-vote
fair,
> so
> > > without
> > > having been in Venezuela you actually have the nerve to say that you
> know
> > > better than those international observers?
> >
> > "International observers" tend toward UN style socialists and cannot be
> > trusted, Jimmy carter included and especially.
>
> And your precious president Bush can be trusted? OK, where are the WMD
Ask your Communist buddy Kerry. He thought they were there, too.
Communism was a failed system from the start. Anyone still clinging to that
dead horse need to be buried with it.
Strider
know buddee
> Cubans and Colombians
> as his muscle.
Bush is a God, and that Chavez is a devil.
Oil in Venezuela is state owned. That means that the money belongs to
the people, not just the rich ones. They're just telling the
greedheads that the manure has to be spread around to all parts of the
garden, and of course the greedheads - who thave much in common with
greed heads anywhere object to this. They want more and more money.
They don't give a shi_ how many people die of hunger or in an unjust
invasion or occupation - all they want is more and more and more.
They're sick... like the morbidly obese people who have to be lifted
out of a house with an industrial crane. Sick and in need of
professional help.
This planet's gifts, the natural resources are enough for everyone to
have plenty. When people start hoarding thousands of times more
resources than they need, it causes an imbalance - devastating effect
on the non-greedy.
Be sane and stand for gov'ts that are by and for 'the people' not just
the rich ones!
KB
---------
Barbarossa
If you think that Kerry, as a member of Skull and Bones could be my buddy
and
if you also think that Kerry is a communist then you have a real big problem
with
reality. Even Ralph Nader isn't a communist. Of course Kerry told the same
lies Bush, Powell, Cheney, Rice and others of the satanic Freemasonry and
Skull
and Bones. He's a Skull and Bones member, so he is in the conspiracy to lie
to
the UN. I am Belgian/Dutch, I would not vote for either candidate, knowing
they
are both members of Skull and Bones and Freemasonry and therefore cannot be
trusted.
Then you have a big problem, because strictly speaking pure marxist
communism
has never been anywhere on this planet.
Tracy
Our ecomomy is the envy of socialists everywhere. Name a socialist country with less than 5.6 percent unemployment. Germany's was in double digits within the last year. There will always be poor people in any economy anywhere. National system performance must be measure by overall numbers.
The rich, by the way are supporting the budget. I say again, the highest 20% of earners are paying 80% of the taxes.
The nazi's were just communists with fancy uniforms. They nationalized the same industries as the communists, they killed the same people as communists and they were defeated by the same country that defeated the communists.
Barbarossa
<snipped for convienience>
>>>
Our ecomomy is the envy of socialists everywhere.
Name a socialist country with less than 5.6 percent
unemployment. Germany's was in double digits within
the last year. There will always be poor people in any
economy anywhere. National system performance must
be measure by overall numbers.<<<
Really? And Germany is a socialist country? I really urge
you to do some research! There is not a single socialist
country in Europe! They are all capitalistic. To teach you
just a small lesson. A socialist or communist country is
a country where the industry is nationalized and the entire
industry belongs to the government. That is socialism or
communism. There is not a single European country where
such is the case. Sheesh. What newspapers do you read?
>>>
The rich, by the way are supporting the budget. I say
again, the highest 20% of earners are paying 80% of the
taxes.<<<
Impossible.
>>>
The nazi's were just communists with fancy uniforms.
They nationalized the same industries as the communists,
they killed the same people as communists and they were
defeated by the same country that defeated the communists.
<<<
Sure, that's why Stalin en Hitler fought a bitter war which
costed the lives of 20 million Russians hmm? By calling
Nazis communists you show to the entire world that you
are pathetically stupid and ignorant of history. Hitler was
not defeated by the USA! The USA never could have done
so alone. Hitler was defeated in by the *allied* forces and
the biggest forces were USA, USSR, Canada, UK, France.
Be very proud on your America and your precious liar Bush!
He lies to the international community and to the UN. He wages
wars for drugs and oil and calls it the war on terror. He cannot
stand free trade. Saddam wanted to sell its oil to Russia, France
and Germany. Bush did not want that to happen so he waged
war there. Be very proud on your America! Soon the 1000th
bodybag will be shipped to your country. But they died for
freedom right? Wrong!
Enjoy it as long as you can. This century will mark the end of
the USA as a superpower. Oil will become more rare and rare
and the price will skyrocket. There goes your economy!
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
Not your business
wrote:
>Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory
That's easy. He cheated and then threw the ballots away.
Barbarossa
"Not your business" <noone...@home.com> schreef in bericht
news:m5nai01vn7h1fkb81...@4ax.com...
Nope, that is how Bush won Florida!
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)
wrote in alt.fan.art-bell in message
>The only ones lying to the entire world are Bush, Powell, Cheney,
>Rice and the rest of the satanic Freemasonry- and Skull and Bones club.
<plonk>
Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)
wrote in alt.fan.art-bell in message
>Barbarossa wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>> in Iraq. The only ones lying to the entire world are Bush, Powell, Cheney,
>> Rice and the rest of the satanic Freemasonry- and Skull and Bones club.
>
>Don't get too complacent, then; ISTR
>someone mentioning that Kerry is a
>member, too.
Shhhh... It's a secret!
Gunner
>And your precious president Bush can be trusted? OK, where are the WMD
>in Iraq. The only ones lying to the entire world are Bush, Powell, Cheney,
>Rice and the rest of the satanic Freemasonry- and Skull and Bones club.
Psst...whats that noise? Hummmm...sounds like a black helicopter
circling your house beaming in mind control rays!
Best be donning your foil beanie before they get into range and turn
you into a member of the vast right wing conspiracy!
Run!!
chortle
pyotr filipivich
<gunner...@lightspeed.net> foisted Thu, 19 Aug 2004 07:48:22 GMT on
misc.survivalism , viz:
>On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 19:56:49 -0800, "Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)"
><vgor...@pobox.alaska.net> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 02:29:49 +0200, "Barbarossa" <fa07...@skynet.be>
>>wrote in alt.fan.art-bell in message
>><4123f471$0$3539$ba62...@news.skynet.be>:
>>
>>>Take a good look in the eden of capitalists the USA. One out of 8 is
>>>living beneath the povertyline.
>>
>>With electricity, indoor plumbing, hot&cold running water, central
>>heat, at least one phone, a cell phone, a TV with cable, a computer,
>>Internet access, a video game console, a microwave oven, at least one
>>car, and probably at least one credit card. That's your 'poverty
>>line'. Your grandparents would laugh you off the face of the planet.
>
>Ayup.
While all that is true, it still remains the "poverty line" here.
While it might be nice to contemplate that my $7.16 an hour minimum wage
job puts me in the upper middle class for income in New Dehli or Guatemala,
the problem remains, I got to buy my groceries here.
But it sure is true, the United States is the first country to go to
the poor house in an automobile.
tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
"Do not argue with the forces of nature, for you are small,
insignificant, and biodegradable."
Strider
>
***snip***
So you are Communist Eurotrash.
That explains much.
strider
Strider
>
> "Tracy" <tr...@ev1.net> schreef in bericht
> news:10iaev0...@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
> <snipped for convienience>
>
> >>>
> Our ecomomy is the envy of socialists everywhere.
> Name a socialist country with less than 5.6 percent
> unemployment. Germany's was in double digits within
> the last year. There will always be poor people in any
> economy anywhere. National system performance must
> be measure by overall numbers.<<<
>
So, as a semi-communist country, everyone is equally miserable.
Strider
Christopher A. Lee
wrote:
>
>"Barbarossa" <fa07...@skynet.be> wrote in message
>news:41252a79$0$4079$ba62...@news.skynet.be...
>>
>***snip***
>
>So you are Communist Eurotrash.
So you're a lying bigot as well as an all-too-typical sociopathic
American.
>That explains much.
That explains much.
>strider
>
Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)
wrote in alt.fan.art-bell in message
>On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 19:24:52 +0200, "Barbarossa" <fa07...@skynet.be>
>wrote:
>
>>And your precious president Bush can be trusted? OK, where are the WMD
>>in Iraq. The only ones lying to the entire world are Bush, Powell, Cheney,
>>Rice and the rest of the satanic Freemasonry- and Skull and Bones club.
>
>Psst...whats that noise? Hummmm...sounds like a black helicopter
>circling your house beaming in mind control rays!
>
>Best be donning your foil beanie before they get into range and turn
>you into a member of the vast right wing conspiracy!
>
>Run!!
>
>chortle
>
>Gunner
We've (tinw) already started the reprogramming. By Sunday, he will be
absolutely convinced he is really a cucumber.
Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)
<ca...@optonline.net> wrote in alt.fan.art-bell in message
<d9vbi0ph0om6g05nq...@4ax.com>:
>On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 08:44:31 -0400, "Strider" <str...@usit.net>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>"Barbarossa" <fa07...@skynet.be> wrote in message
>>news:41252a79$0$4079$ba62...@news.skynet.be...
>>>
>>***snip***
>>
>>So you are Communist Eurotrash.
>
>So you're a lying bigot as well as an all-too-typical sociopathic
>American.
Mee too!
Gunner
<vgor...@pobox.alaska.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 04:32:03 GMT, Gunner <gunner...@lightspeed.net>
>wrote in alt.fan.art-bell in message
><0jvai0df74cmgl70o...@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 19:24:52 +0200, "Barbarossa" <fa07...@skynet.be>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>And your precious president Bush can be trusted? OK, where are the WMD
>>>in Iraq. The only ones lying to the entire world are Bush, Powell, Cheney,
>>>Rice and the rest of the satanic Freemasonry- and Skull and Bones club.
>>
>>Psst...whats that noise? Hummmm...sounds like a black helicopter
>>circling your house beaming in mind control rays!
>>
>>Best be donning your foil beanie before they get into range and turn
>>you into a member of the vast right wing conspiracy!
>>
>>Run!!
>>
>>chortle
>>
>>Gunner
>
>We've (tinw) already started the reprogramming. By Sunday, he will be
>absolutely convinced he is really a cucumber.
Damn..you guys in Sector 7 have absolutely no imagination. Be
creative! Weve got a half dozen people here in Sector 14 that
thinking they are duck billed platypus. We sent some video tapes in to
Americas Funniest Home Videos and with luck we will win the big prize
again and use the money for a new flatscreen plasma TV here in the
break room at Evil Empire Headquarters.
Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)
wrote in alt.fan.art-bell in message
>On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 06:50:15 -0800, "Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)"
><vgor...@pobox.alaska.net> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 04:32:03 GMT, Gunner <gunner...@lightspeed.net>
>>wrote in alt.fan.art-bell in message
>><0jvai0df74cmgl70o...@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 19:24:52 +0200, "Barbarossa" <fa07...@skynet.be>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>And your precious president Bush can be trusted? OK, where are the WMD
>>>>in Iraq. The only ones lying to the entire world are Bush, Powell, Cheney,
>>>>Rice and the rest of the satanic Freemasonry- and Skull and Bones club.
>>>
>>>Psst...whats that noise? Hummmm...sounds like a black helicopter
>>>circling your house beaming in mind control rays!
>>>
>>>Best be donning your foil beanie before they get into range and turn
>>>you into a member of the vast right wing conspiracy!
>>>
>>>Run!!
>>>
>>>chortle
>>>
>>>Gunner
>>
>>We've (tinw) already started the reprogramming. By Sunday, he will be
>>absolutely convinced he is really a cucumber.
>
>Damn..you guys in Sector 7 have absolutely no imagination. Be
>creative! Weve got a half dozen people here in Sector 14 that
>thinking they are duck billed platypus.
We've (tinw) already tried all the animals we could think of,
including coral polyps, but they were all failures with this subject.
All that's left is vegetables, and we (tinw) are very hopeful.
Strider
"Christopher A. Lee" <ca...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:d9vbi0ph0om6g05nq...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 08:44:31 -0400, "Strider" <str...@usit.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Barbarossa" <fa07...@skynet.be> wrote in message
> >news:41252a79$0$4079$ba62...@news.skynet.be...
> >>
> >***snip***
> >
> >So you are Communist Eurotrash.
>
> So you're a lying bigot as well as an all-too-typical sociopathic
> American.
Bigotry is predjudice against a person of the human race. Eurotrash do not
apply.
Strider
Bookman
"Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)" <vgor...@pobox.alaska.net> wrote in message
news:jb6ci0tbro7piaom3...@4ax.com...
Don't forget the debacle where we[tinw] were programming
them to think they were fruits, and they kept moving to
San Francisco...
ESL!
--
Bookman -The Official Overseer of Kooks and Trolls in AFA-B
Kazoo Konspirator #668 (The Neighbor of the Beast)
Clue-Bat Wrangler
Keeper of the Nickname Lists
Despotic Kookologist of the New World Order
"I'd love to kill you in a ring" - Bartmo gets all touchy-feely
http://www.insurgent.org/~kook-faq/afa-b/
Barbarossa
You have an intelligence less than an ant! There is no such thing as
"semi-communist country", you are either living in a socialist- or
communist economy where the latter doesn't allow you to have
personal belongings. Or you are living in a capitalistic economy.
All economies in Europe are certainly capitalistic.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
Barbarossa
>
> "Barbarossa" <fa07...@skynet.be> wrote in message
> news:41252a79$0$4079$ba62...@news.skynet.be...
> >
> ***snip***
>
> So you are Communist Eurotrash.
Nope, you have a problem with understanding economies, you have a big
problem with history, you have no idea what you are talking about and you
have a big problem with reality. I seriously urge you to seek immediate
help!
What kind of education did you have?
> That explains much.
See, above!
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
Christopher A. Lee
wrote:
>
>"Christopher A. Lee" <ca...@optonline.net> wrote in message
>news:d9vbi0ph0om6g05nq...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 08:44:31 -0400, "Strider" <str...@usit.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Barbarossa" <fa07...@skynet.be> wrote in message
>> >news:41252a79$0$4079$ba62...@news.skynet.be...
>> >>
>> >***snip***
>> >
>> >So you are Communist Eurotrash.
>>
>> So you're a lying bigot as well as an all-too-typical sociopathic
>> American.
>
>Bigotry is predjudice against a person of the human race. Eurotrash do not
>apply.
Thank you for making my point for me.
Dez Akin
> > > Some random notes here, from someone who is trying to be a realist.
> > >
> > > 1. The "elite" attempt to steal as much as possible from the poor, has
> > > backfired and by now, they realized that they should have shared a tad
> > > more.
> > >
> > > only as long as high oil prices.
> > >
> > > supporting the anti-Chavez coup a few years ago. As usual, the stupid
> > > and doctrinaire policies of this alcoholic president, actually hurt
> > > the US standing instead of enhancing it.
> > >
> > >
> > Cubans and Colombians
> > as his muscle.
>
> strange! International observers have declared the recall-vote fair, so
> without
> having been in Venezuela you actually have the nerve to say that you know
> better than those international observers?
My feelings here are that Chavez legitimately won, to the eventual
misery of Venezuelans. The poor love him for redistributionalist
policies, the small middle class and wealthy hate him for politicizing
class, slowing economic growth and making autocratic power grabs.
There wasn't much of a choice even if Chavez won... he's packed the
courts during his tenure, and controls the election council.
If Chavez lost the recall, he would run again in the next general
election and with the courts in his pocket and the ambiguous language
of the recall in the constitution, they would let him. The opposition
wouldn't be able to consolodate fast enough to put a single candidate
to run against Chavez, and chavez would take power again.
As it stands, with Chavez purging the legeslature and military of
opposition, there is no future of Venezuela without Chavez's programs,
and many economists believe they lead down the path of corruption and
stagnation.
> The problem with the USA is that it claims to be democratic, but it doesn't
> respect democracies.
Why is that a problem? If the citizens of the US vote to enslave the
rest of the world, the US is still being democratic, just not nice.
The US certainly respects 'some' democracies, such as Britain,
Australia, Japan, etcetera. That we don't kowtow to a populist
politician who actively campaigns against our interest is in no way
contradictory, even if said politician has full support of his people.
The US seeks to preserve the interest of its citizens, not of citizens
of other democracies or firebrand populist politicians.
> Remember Allende in Chile 1973? He also won an
> election.
While it seems like a fair comparison on its face, we forget that
Chavez won by a majority, while Allande won by a bare plurality, a
mere 36.2 percent of the vote in 1970. After winning he attempted a
massive restructuring of the government as a socialist entity and
allignment of foreign policy against US interests. Naturally the US
response was the CIA assisting in Pinochet's coup.
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/chile/allende.htm
And while Pinochet was a brutal thug, his market oriented reforms
served to make Chile what it is today, the most advanced economy in
South America.
What the US should have done in Venezuela was ignore the internal
affairs of Venezuela entirely (to our potential peril further on) or
provide much more hands on direct assistance during the coup to ensure
Chavez's demise.
But now we'll have to just endure yet another bellicose if not
actively hostile populist autocrat in the western hemisphere. Oh well.
Dez Akin
Barbarossa
"Dez Akin" <dez...@usa.net> schreef in bericht
news:dd43b4da.04082...@posting.google.com...
The rich and landowners in Venezuela should learn that when you
actually can bring in a lot of wealth to anyone in a country you should
do that and not being hypergreedy and taking all the revenues of the
national resources all for yourself. Like Iraq, Venezuela could be one
of the richest countries on this planet if the oilindustry got nationalized.
Just like in some Arab countries where costs of living are nihil and all
kinds of social welfare is free; like education and health care. The rich
and landowners had their chance in Venezuela. In their extreme greed
they did not give a damn about the poor.
> If Chavez lost the recall, he would run again in the next general
> election and with the courts in his pocket and the ambiguous language
> of the recall in the constitution, they would let him. The opposition
> wouldn't be able to consolodate fast enough to put a single candidate
> to run against Chavez, and chavez would take power again.
I believe that without an assasination-attempt or active supporting a
coup in Venezuela by the USA Chavez will win again in three years.
But knowing how the USA operated in the past I fear for his life.
> As it stands, with Chavez purging the legeslature and military of
> opposition, there is no future of Venezuela without Chavez's programs,
> and many economists believe they lead down the path of corruption and
> stagnation.
You keep mentioning how Chavez controls the courts and election-councils.
Just take a look at your own country how the republicans stole the election
in Florida where all republican forces such as Jebb Bush and this Katherine
what's her name used her authority to declare Bush winner in Florida and
then the supreme court, in which the republicans also have the majority
pointed
Bush as winner of the election. And then you want to attack Chavez? Please
clear your own house before mingling into the affairs in other houses.
> > The problem with the USA is that it claims to be democratic, but it
doesn't
> > respect democracies.
>
> Why is that a problem? If the citizens of the US vote to enslave the
> rest of the world, the US is still being democratic, just not nice.
> The US certainly respects 'some' democracies, such as Britain,
> Australia, Japan, etcetera. That we don't kowtow to a populist
> politician who actively campaigns against our interest is in no way
> contradictory, even if said politician has full support of his people.
> The US seeks to preserve the interest of its citizens, not of citizens
> of other democracies or firebrand populist politicians.
Apples and organges. Chavez has not decided to enslave anyone and
the opposition was allowed to cast their vote. They lost, they should
learn some social consequences then perhaps they will win an election
again. At the moment Chavez is busy with new legislation where 30%
of the oil revenues will float to the Venezueleans. Actually that should
be more. What is in the ground in Venezuela belongs to the Venezueleans
and not to a small gang of greedy multinationals and certainly not to the
satanic Bush-clan. If you believe in democracy then you respect the
democratic rights of everyone. That has always been a weak point in the
foreign affairs of the USA.
> > Remember Allende in Chile 1973? He also won an
> > election.
>
> While it seems like a fair comparison on its face, we forget that
> Chavez won by a majority, while Allande won by a bare plurality, a
> mere 36.2 percent of the vote in 1970. After winning he attempted a
> massive restructuring of the government as a socialist entity and
> allignment of foreign policy against US interests. Naturally the US
> response was the CIA assisting in Pinochet's coup.
What was in the mines in Chile belonged to the Chilean people. What
is in the soil of Venezuela belongs to the Venezueleans and not to the
USA. What kind of people are you in the USA? Installing puppet-
regimes and the stealing away all kinds of resources. I just have one
word for that. The USA acts like parasites of a very worse kind. Your
USA is just one large parasite and that is how you got your wealth.
Well, be very proud of that! All nations should decide by themselves
what happens with the resources they have. They should do so in a
direct democracy manner.
> http://www.fas.org/irp/world/chile/allende.htm
>
> And while Pinochet was a brutal thug, his market oriented reforms
> served to make Chile what it is today, the most advanced economy in
> South America.
"A brutal thug"? He should be brought to the international court in The
Hague as a criminal to humanity just like Milosevic.
> What the US should have done in Venezuela was ignore the internal
> affairs of Venezuela entirely (to our potential peril further on) or
> provide much more hands on direct assistance during the coup to ensure
> Chavez's demise.
Nope, a democratic USA respects the will of another nation, as long this
nation does not have violent aggressive plans towards the USA and leave
Venezuela to the Venezueleans. What kind of imperialist and parasite are
you? Shees! It is time that the USA learns to respect other people with
other political ideas. That is what democracy is all about. And that is why
millions of USA soldiers are buried in Europe. They will turn around in
their graves hearing you talk! Don't you feel any shame for your complete
arrogant and selfish ideas?
> But now we'll have to just endure yet another bellicose if not
> actively hostile populist autocrat in the western hemisphere. Oh well.
Hostile populist autocrate? Sure, he's s terrorist right?
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
Tracy
Barbarossa wrote:
"Tracy" <tr...@ev1.net> schreef in bericht news:10iaev0...@corp.supernews.com... <snipped for convienience>Our ecomomy is the envy of socialists everywhere. Name a socialist country with less than 5.6 percent unemployment. Germany's was in double digits within the last year. There will always be poor people in any economy anywhere. National system performance must be measure by overall numbers.<<<
Really? And Germany is a socialist country? I really urge you to do some research! There is not a single socialist country in Europe! They are all capitalistic. To teach you just a small lesson. A socialist or communist country is a country where the industry is nationalized and the entire industry belongs to the government. That is socialism or communism. There is not a single European country where such is the case. Sheesh. What newspapers do you read?
The rich, by the way are supporting the budget. I say again, the highest 20% of earners are paying 80% of the taxes.<<< Impossible.
The nazi's were just communists with fancy uniforms. They nationalized the same industries as the communists, they killed the same people as communists and they were defeated by the same country that defeated the communists. <<<
Sure, that's why Stalin en Hitler fought a bitter war which costed the lives of 20 million Russians hmm? By calling Nazis communists you show to the entire world that you are pathetically stupid and ignorant of history. Hitler was not defeated by the USA! The USA never could have done so alone. Hitler was defeated in by the *allied* forces and the biggest forces were USA, USSR, Canada, UK, France.
Be very proud on your America and your precious liar Bush! He lies to the international community and to the UN. He wages wars for drugs and oil and calls it the war on terror. He cannot stand free trade. Saddam wanted to sell its oil to Russia, France and Germany. Bush did not want that to happen so he waged war there. Be very proud on your America! Soon the 1000th bodybag will be shipped to your country. But they died for freedom right? Wrong! Enjoy it as long as you can. This century will mark the end of the USA as a superpower. Oil will become more rare and rare and the price will skyrocket. There goes your economy!
Kind Regards, Barbarossa
The Independent of Clackamas County
Why is it every time a great and glorious socialist revolution occurs
any where in the world, we wind up with a couple of million refugees
from that same great and glorious socialist country.
I suspect that we will find that 4 million from Chavezland will be
arriving in Florida any day now.
The Independent
"Pilot to Gunner: Bandits at 9 O'Clock."
Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)
wrote in alt.fan.art-bell in message
This episode has been stricken from the record books.
Barbarossa
>>>><<<<
<snipped for convienience>
>>>>
Really? And Germany is a socialist country? I really urge
you to do some research! There is not a single socialist
country in Europe! They are all capitalistic. To teach you
just a small lesson. A socialist or communist country is
a country where the industry is nationalized and the entire
industry belongs to the government. That is socialism or
communism. There is not a single European country where
such is the case. Sheesh. What newspapers do you read?
<<<<
>>
Your definition is more absolute than mine in requiring all
industries to be nationalized to be socialist. In my world,
socializing a major segment of the economy such as health
care, transportation, phone service etc. is enough to earn
the socialist label.<<
So, if an European country decides to nationalize one thing,
let's say health care. Then, regardless whether the rest stays
privatized, you call such a country a communist or socialist
country. Very weird definition of a socialist or communist
country. Then your precious allie Blair must be a communist,
because in his country the UK health care is indeed nationalized,
they call it the National Health Service or NHS. Public
transport and the mail is also nationalized there, but you know
what? Industries are allowed to produce in a capitalistic way,
strange isn't it? There is a lot more grey in the world than you
are willing to permit.
>>
The rich, by the way are supporting the budget. I say
again, the highest 20% of earners are paying 80% of the
taxes.<<
>>>>
Impossible.
<<<<
>>
Reality.
<<
Imagine that it is. Bill Gates certainly doen't look unhappy.
>>
The nazi's were just communists with fancy uniforms.
They nationalized the same industries as the communists,
they killed the same people as communists and they were
defeated by the same country that defeated the communists.
<<
>>
Stalin and Hitler started out as allies. The most violent murders
are often between family members.<<
You are really totally ignorant about history aren't you? Back in
1938 when Hitler was already in it's full force Stalin could not
afford it to go to war with Hitler, because the USSR was not
capable of doing so. The militairy strenght of the USSR was
weaker than that of Hitler Germany in 1938. But Stalin was a
cunning man and sent Molotov to Berlin to negotiate a deal with
Von Ribbentrop/Hitler. This treaty gave Stalin time to increase
the efforts to build an army stronger than it was. Even when Hitler
invaded the USSR Stalin build further and further on his millitairy
might. When the Nazis finally got stuck just west of Moscow and
the other city Stalingrad the USSR finally had it's might to throw
the Nazis back. Then the USSR followed them all the way to
Berlin where they almost captured Hitler in his bunker. Hitler and
Stalin were never buddies and never allies. Stalin was just cunning
enough to not start or respond to a war in 1938.
>>>>
Sure, that's why Stalin en Hitler fought a bitter war which
costed the lives of 20 million Russians hmm? By calling
Nazis communists you show to the entire world that you
are pathetically stupid and ignorant of history. Hitler was
not defeated by the USA! The USA never could have done
so alone. Hitler was defeated in by the *allied* forces and
the biggest forces were USA, USSR, Canada, UK, France.
<<<<
>>
Thank you, I did not mean to leave out our true allies Great
Britian and Canada. The USSR certainly fought hard against
their former ally. <<
What happened to your resentment of communism and socialism
all of a sudden? According to your own standards the UK is a
communist or socialist country. See above, the USSR and Hitler
were never allies.
I have nothing against the average American. I even correspond with
some of them. My message is not a message of hate. My message is a
message of wake up and take a look what your leaders are actually
doing. The Skull and Bones satanist Bush lies to the entire world about
Iraq, because he and the rest of his satanic freemasonry friends wanted
the oil in Iraq. He cannot stand free trade. Iraq wanted to sell its *own*
oil to France, Russia and Germany. The Bush family had/has ties with
the Nazis in Germany, Prescott Bush, grandfather of the sitting president
funded the Nazis so that Hitler could start his extinction of the jews and
you know why? Because Hitler and the Bush family come from the same
nest. Bush is a fascist who wages wars for oil and drugs in Afghanistan.
And after Afghanistan he did the same in Iraq. Do you know that until the
Taleban refused to let Americans construct an oil-pipe for the Afghanistan
oil the Taleban and your leaders were buddies all the way back to Bush
senior who funded the Taleban to wage for against the USSR? So, who is
forming strange allies? Stalin or Bush? If the CIA and the Pentagon really
wanted Osama Bin Laden arrested or dead he would have been arrested
and/or dead already. But that is not what the satanic leaders want. They
want him alive somewhere in so that he poses a thread. Your leaders need
him to slowly take away your freedoms. And that is why your government
allowed him to commit terror on your own country. What a gift from heaven!
Now your government can start more repressing of the people, phonetapping
etcetera etcetera.
And why do you expect help from Europe? We are all communists and
socialists no? Instead of whining about socialism and communism you better
start opening your eyes and start saving your own country. If you don't then
the USA will slowly be turned into a policestate and fascism.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)
alt.fan.art-bell in message
<dd43b4da.04082...@posting.google.com>:
>Why is that a problem? If the citizens of the US vote to enslave the
>rest of the world, the US is still being democratic, just not nice.
>The US certainly respects 'some' democracies, such as Britain,
>Australia, Japan, etcetera. That we don't kowtow to a populist
>politician who actively campaigns against our interest is in no way
>contradictory, even if said politician has full support of his people.
>The US seeks to preserve the interest of its citizens, not of citizens
>of other democracies or firebrand populist politicians.
Nicely put.
Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)
County <jam...@web-ster.com> wrote in alt.fan.art-bell in message
<10idbvn...@corp.supernews.com>:
And they will claim they are from Cuba, and melt into the population
of Florida, never to be heard from again.
Barbarossa
"The Independent of Clackamas County" <jam...@web-ster.com> schreef in
bericht news:10idbvn...@corp.supernews.com...
> <Snipped all the bull shit>
>
> Why is it every time a great and glorious socialist revolution occurs
> any where in the world, we wind up with a couple of million refugees
> from that same great and glorious socialist country.
How about false propaganda?
> I suspect that we will find that 4 million from Chavezland will be
> arriving in Florida any day now.
I don't think so, the Venezueleans that might come are the corrupt
and greedy elite.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
The Independent of Clackamas County
who can't read or write, are infected with T-B, aids, are malnourished
and have 14 children so they can all get on welfare. In fact I doubt
that more than .0000000001% of all the people who come here illegally
have more than the clothes on their back.
The Independent
"Pilot to Gunner: Bandits at 9 O'clock."
> Kind Regards,
> Barbarossa
>
>
The Independent of Clackamas County
Barbarossa wrote:
> "Tracy" <tr...@ev1.net> schreef in bericht
> news:10iaev0...@corp.supernews.com...
>
>>><<
>
> Barbarossa:
>
>>>>><<<<
>
>
> <snipped for convienience>
>
> Really? And Germany is a socialist country? I really urge
> you to do some research! There is not a single socialist
> country in Europe! They are all capitalistic. To teach you
> just a small lesson. A socialist or communist country is
> a country where the industry is nationalized and the entire
> industry belongs to the government. That is socialism or
> communism. There is not a single European country where
> such is the case. Sheesh. What newspapers do you read?
> <<<<
>
Its you who don't know history.
First Salin carried out his military purges where he shot the majority
of the officers of the Red Army between 1936 and 1938. Perhaps he was
pissed off over his Red Army officers got their head handed to them by
Franko of Spain.
Second
Because of the treaty of Versailles in 1918 germany could not develop
any fighter and bomber aircraft. The German Luftwaffe started it's
development as part of the Russian Air Force in 1932 to 1935 and left
Russia just before the Spanish thing kicked off. Read the rise of the
Luftwaffe 1932-1940.
Third
While German armies were rolling across the Western border of Poland
Russian armies were rolling across the Eastern Border of Poland. Hitler
and Stalin agreed to split Poland between them. This deal was supposed
to give both Germany and Russia a buffer zone to reduce tensions between
the government.
Forth
Germany only attacked Russia after the British proved to be too tough
nut to crack, and it became clear to Hitler that the United States
probably would intervene if Hitler attempted to Invade England. Since
the United States had no Interest in Russia it was a much more
attractive target than Germany.
The Independent
"Pilot to Gunner: Bandits at 9 O'Clock."
Bookman
Oh, good. Did the Cabal[tinc] issue a memo on that? If so,
whom do I mutilate for not passing it along to me, eh?
Bookman
> On 20 Aug 2004 13:56:33 -0700, dez...@usa.net (Dez Akin) wrote in
> alt.fan.art-bell in message
> <dd43b4da.04082...@posting.google.com>:
>
> >Why is that a problem? If the citizens of the US vote to enslave the
> >rest of the world, the US is still being democratic, just not nice.
> >The US certainly respects 'some' democracies, such as Britain,
> >Australia, Japan, etcetera. That we don't kowtow to a populist
> >politician who actively campaigns against our interest is in no way
> >contradictory, even if said politician has full support of his people.
> >The US seeks to preserve the interest of its citizens, not of citizens
> >of other democracies or firebrand populist politicians.
>
> Nicely put.
But what's the hold-up?
Gunner
wrote:
>You keep mentioning how Chavez controls the courts and election-councils.
>Just take a look at your own country how the republicans stole the election
>in Florida where all republican forces such as Jebb Bush and this Katherine
>what's her name used her authority to declare Bush winner in Florida and
>then the supreme court, in which the republicans also have the majority
>pointed
>Bush as winner of the election. And then you want to attack Chavez? Please
>clear your own house before mingling into the affairs in other houses.
Cool! A new and budding science fiction writer! Isnt it cute how he
fucks up the plot line with totally bogus details, but still keeps a
straight face through it all?
Gunner
"There is no difference between communism and socialism, except
in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism
proposes to enslave men by force, socialism - by vote. It is
merely the difference between murder and suicide."
- Ayn Rand, from "Foreign Policy Drains U.S. of Main
Weapons"
Gunner
wrote:
>Nope, a democratic USA respects the will of another nation, as long this
>nation does not have violent aggressive plans towards the USA and leave
>Venezuela to the Venezueleans. What kind of imperialist and parasite are
>you? Shees! It is time that the USA learns to respect other people with
>other political ideas.
Should that have applied to Germany in 1940? Ill ask my neigbor..the
old guy with the numbers tattooed inside his left arm....
Gunner
Damn its good to see that not everyone is ignorant of geopolitical
history.
Good job!
The Independent of Clackamas County
Gunner wrote:
Yea and I see parallels today with the formation of the European Union
and the grand alliance of Otto Von Bismarck of the 1870's to 1890's.
Bismarck tried to balance all the continental powers of Europe to
Isolate France. He had treaties with Austria, and Russia, (the treaty
with Russia was unknown by the Austrians) The rest of the small
nations of Europe were chicken feed.
Today we have France and Germany trying to dominate Europe and Isolate
the United States. At the same time the small nations of Europe are
seeing the European Union as granting all kinds of privileges to France
and Germany while causing economic Pain to them.
Denmark, Holland, Poland, Hungary, the Austria, Belgium, Luxembourg, and
Czech Republic, et all, still remember the jack boot of Germany and the
plumed helmets of French Cuirassiers rampaging across their borders.
The with drawl of american forces from Europe is having an adverse
effect on the smaller nations of Europe that have always been the
playground of the French and the Germans. As long as they had the
neutral American army standing guard on their boarders they didn't worry
that much. Now with the Americans talking about leaving, the Danes, the
Poles, the Hungarians, and the czechs are trying to make deals with the
Americans to keep some troops with in their respective boarders to keep
the French and the Germans honest.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
The Independent
"Pilot to Gunner: Bandits at 9 O'Clock."
P.S. We got more boots on the Ground in Iraq than the FRENCH HAVE BOOTS.
Barbarossa
"The Independent of Clackamas County" <jam...@web-ster.com> schreef in
bericht news:10idjb1...@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
> Barbarossa wrote:
>
> > "Tracy" <tr...@ev1.net> schreef in bericht
> > news:10iaev0...@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> >>><<
> >
> > Barbarossa:
> >
> >>>>><<<<
> >
> >
> > <snipped for convienience>
> Its you who don't know history.
>
> First Salin carried out his military purges where he shot the majority
> of the officers of the Red Army between 1936 and 1938. Perhaps he was
> pissed off over his Red Army officers got their head handed to them by
> Franko of Spain.
Has nothing to with the idea that Stalin and Hitler were allies.
> Second
> Because of the treaty of Versailles in 1918 germany could not develop
> any fighter and bomber aircraft. The German Luftwaffe started it's
> development as part of the Russian Air Force in 1932 to 1935 and left
> Russia just before the Spanish thing kicked off. Read the rise of the
> Luftwaffe 1932-1940.
Rubbish and crap. Hitler left the League of Nations already in 1934 and
started to build his own warmachinery including the luftwaffe. He did not
give a damn about the Versaille treaty; That's why in 1936 he took control
over the "Reinland" and Ruhr-area again, this was forbidden by the Versaille
treaty, but no one gave a shit.
> Third
> While German armies were rolling across the Western border of Poland
> Russian armies were rolling across the Eastern Border of Poland. Hitler
> and Stalin agreed to split Poland between them. This deal was supposed
> to give both Germany and Russia a buffer zone to reduce tensions between
> the government.
Rubbish and crap, the splitting of Poland was part of the Molotov-
Ribbentrop
treaty. Russia was not ready for war with Germany like I explained in
another
message and by negotiating this deal bought time to build further on their
war-
machinery. Hitler wanted to invade the USSR already in 1925, see below.
> Forth
> Germany only attacked Russia after the British proved to be too tough
> nut to crack, and it became clear to Hitler that the United States
> probably would intervene if Hitler attempted to Invade England. Since
> the United States had no Interest in Russia it was a much more
> attractive target than Germany.
Rubbish and crap. In his book Mein Kampf, written in 1925 when he was
in jail after the failed Beerhall coup in Munich Bavaria, Hitler had already
expressed his will to conquer the bolsjevists USSR. He saw bolsjevism
and communism as a jewish invention and the greatest threat to Germany.
Furthermore, also in Mein Kampf you can read that it was Hitler's wish
to create more "lebensraum" for Germany and that this "lebensraum" must
be conquered in the east and not the west! Hitler actually never wanted to
go to war with England. The Nazis admired the English. The English and
the French did not want a war with Germany either, that's why English
prime minister Chaimberlain and French prime minister Daladier gave in to
all Hitler demanded regarding Tsjechoslowakia. Only when Hitler invaded
Poland the UK and France were obliged to declare war on Germany, but
they did so grudgingly. When they did, Hitler simply gave the blame to the
"international jew".
What kind of person are you anyway? A neo fascist revisionist? Please
read the right books!
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
Barbarossa
"Gunner" <gun...@lightspeed.net> schreef in bericht
news:v0pdi0dftbjevokfo...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 00:43:32 +0200, "Barbarossa" <fa07...@skynet.be>
> wrote:
>
> >Nope, a democratic USA respects the will of another nation, as long this
> >nation does not have violent aggressive plans towards the USA and leave
> >Venezuela to the Venezueleans. What kind of imperialist and parasite are
> >you? Shees! It is time that the USA learns to respect other people with
> >other political ideas.
>
> Should that have applied to Germany in 1940? Ill ask my neigbor..the
> old guy with the numbers tattooed inside his left arm....
You appararently lack the ability to read good. In this case we are
discussing
the ridiculous assumptions that Venezuela could be a threat to the USA.
Regarding Germany. As long Germany stayed inside their own borders and not
attacking any other country we should leave Germany alone. But Germany
didn't
and then, and only then it's time to act and not a minute sooner.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
Barbarossa
> On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 00:43:32 +0200, "Barbarossa" <fa07...@skynet.be>
> wrote:
>
> >You keep mentioning how Chavez controls the courts and election-councils.
> >Just take a look at your own country how the republicans stole the
election
> >in Florida where all republican forces such as Jebb Bush and this
Katherine
> >what's her name used her authority to declare Bush winner in Florida and
> >then the supreme court, in which the republicans also have the majority
> >pointed
> >Bush as winner of the election. And then you want to attack Chavez?
Please
> >clear your own house before mingling into the affairs in other houses.
>
> Cool! A new and budding science fiction writer! Isnt it cute how he
> fucks up the plot line with totally bogus details, but still keeps a
> straight face through it all?
Bush and his fellow republicans stole the election in Florida and by the
Supreme Court where his buddies were. Gore won the popular vote and I
have no doubt that he won the Florida vote. Please, before you mingle in the
possible corruption in other countries make sure you don't have it in your
own country!
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
Gunner
wrote:
So it was ok with you that the Germans tattooed and murdered all of
their Jews, as long as they stayed inside their own borders?
Interesting...you are not much of a humanitarian I see.
Gunner
wrote:
>>
>> Cool! A new and budding science fiction writer! Isnt it cute how he
>> fucks up the plot line with totally bogus details, but still keeps a
>> straight face through it all?
>
>Bush and his fellow republicans stole the election in Florida and by the
>Supreme Court where his buddies were. Gore won the popular vote and I
>have no doubt that he won the Florida vote. Please, before you mingle in the
>possible corruption in other countries make sure you don't have it in your
>own country!
>
>Kind Regards,
>Barbarossa
>
You already did that plot line in the first novel. Now work on your
data sources and try to use at least SOME accuracy in your next work.
In the US, the popular vote means dick, in actuality. Its the
Electoral College that votes in the President.
Please learn a bit about America before commenting, ok?
wally
The Independent of Clackamas County
Why should we care if Germany went and beat up on France or the other
way around. It was not any of our business.
The crux of the problem is that when you go to help someone else defend
themselves you by definition are meddling in their internal affairs, and
they are meddling in yours.
So even the Germany invading premise is fatally flawed.
The Independent
"Pilot to Gunner: Bandits at 9 O'Clock."
>>Interesting...you are not much of a humanitarian I see.
Gunner
But liberal applications of Zyclon-B wasnt?
Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)
wrote in alt.fan.art-bell in message
The memo has also been stricken from the record books, and the people
who wrote it were accidentally fed to the hogs. The whole thing was
very sordid.
Bookman
But were the people responsible for sacking the people who were
accidentally fed to the hogs, sacked? Were they all replaced by llamas?
Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)
<thebo...@kc.rr.comNULL> wrote in alt.fan.art-bell in message
No, not sacked, technically, but mysteriously reassigned to the radar
station at Point Hope, Alaska, one of the most inaccurately named
places on Earth. The only "hope" in Point Hope is that you will die
before the end of the day.
The Independent of Clackamas County
Gunner wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 15:39:51 +0200, "Barbarossa" <fa07...@skynet.be>
> wrote:
>
>
>>>Cool! A new and budding science fiction writer! Isnt it cute how he
>>>fucks up the plot line with totally bogus details, but still keeps a
>>>straight face through it all?
>>
>>Bush and his fellow republicans stole the election in Florida and by the
>>Supreme Court where his buddies were. Gore won the popular vote and I
>>have no doubt that he won the Florida vote. Please, before you mingle in the
>>possible corruption in other countries make sure you don't have it in your
>>own country!
>>
>>Kind Regards,
>>Barbarossa
>>
>
> You already did that plot line in the first novel. Now work on your
> data sources and try to use at least SOME accuracy in your next work.
>
> In the US, the popular vote means dick, in actuality. Its the
> Electoral College that votes in the President.
>
Not only that but the Constitution give to the state legislatures the
sole power to regulate, the time and the manner of elections. The state
legislature was the one to decide if hanging chads were a vote, or if a
vote even counted or not, and not the GOD DAMMED FLORIDA SUPREME COURT.
> Please learn a bit about America before commenting, ok?
>
> Gunner
>
> "There is no difference between communism and socialism, except
> in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism
> proposes to enslave men by force, socialism - by vote. It is
> merely the difference between murder and suicide."
> - Ayn Rand, from "Foreign Policy Drains U.S. of Main
> Weapons"
The Independent
Barbarossa
When we talk about possible genocides the Americans should first
start to look at its own history of genocide against the native Americans
and cruel treatment of black slaves. Then it should take a look at the
various genocides they financed or supported in the 20th century and
if you as an American have done so then, and only then it is perhaps
time you could clean your house and present policies that such will
not happen again and if you have done so for let's say 50 years then
it might be time that you could carefully formulate some criticism on
other countries.
> Interesting...you are not much of a humanitarian I see.
More than all American presidents together.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
pyotr filipivich
<gun...@lightspeed.net> foisted Sat, 21 Aug 2004 16:19:54 GMT on
misc.survivalism , viz:
>
>>Regarding Germany. As long Germany stayed inside their own borders and not
>>attacking any other country we should leave Germany alone. But Germany
>>didn't
>>and then, and only then it's time to act and not a minute sooner.
>>
>>Kind Regards,
>>Barbarossa
>>
>So it was ok with you that the Germans tattooed and murdered all of
>their Jews, as long as they stayed inside their own borders?
>
>Interesting...you are not much of a humanitarian I see.
At my cynical non-interventionist, I'll have to agree with him. What
they did in their own country was pretty much their own business. It is
when they start exporting such practices that they become a problem. :-)
And it is my ... not obligation, but heritage, yeah, that will do, It
is my heritage as an American to run guns to the underground of such an
oppressive state.
But there is also old expression: "Some things are just not done!" But
that's denounced as "judgmental" in these enlightened and PC days.
tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
Denial is not a river in Egypt, "Denial is a save-now-pay-later scheme,
a contract written entirely in small print, for in the long run, the
denying person knows the truth on some level. LtCol Grossman.
Gunner
wrote:
>When we talk about possible genocides the Americans should first
>start to look at its own history of genocide against the native Americans
>and cruel treatment of black slaves. Then it should take a look at the
>various genocides they financed or supported in the 20th century and
>if you as an American have done so then, and only then it is perhaps
>time you could clean your house and present policies that such will
>not happen again and if you have done so for let's say 50 years then
>it might be time that you could carefully formulate some criticism on
>other countries.
The "genocide" against native americans ended somewhat over 120 yrs
ago. Slavery ended over 150 yrs ago. As to financing other
genocides..what in hell are you babbling about?
I think we have done an admirable job of cleaning our own house over
the past 100 yrs or more.
maff
A Century Of U.S. Military Interventions: From Wounded Knee to Afghanistan
http://www.zmag.org/CrisesCurEvts/interventions.htm
Gunner
>> >
>> So it was ok with you that the Germans tattooed and murdered all of
>> their Jews, as long as they stayed inside their own borders?
>>
>> Interesting...you are not much of a humanitarian I see.
>
>A Century Of U.S. Military Interventions: From Wounded Knee to Afghanistan
>http://www.zmag.org/CrisesCurEvts/interventions.htm
Ayup..and we still havent killed all the bad guys. But give us time.
Barbarossa
> On 22 Aug 2004 01:59:24 -0700, maf...@yahoo.com (maff) wrote:
>
> >> >
> >> So it was ok with you that the Germans tattooed and murdered all of
> >> their Jews, as long as they stayed inside their own borders?
> >>
> >> Interesting...you are not much of a humanitarian I see.
> >
> >A Century Of U.S. Military Interventions: From Wounded Knee to
Afghanistan
> >http://www.zmag.org/CrisesCurEvts/interventions.htm
>
> Ayup..and we still havent killed all the bad guys. But give us time.
Ah, we are back to good guys/bad guys. And there goes your resentment
and rejection of genocides committed by the USA in various parts of the
world.
Since the USA was formed it has a history of abuse, agression and violence.
First against the native Americans who were murdered in a genocide, others
who escaped were thrown into misery. En passant it looted Africa of vital
young men and women to enter the USA as slaves for the various industries.
The USA knows that it does not have all the resources in its own country
and therefore it rampages other countries, even democracies, it installs
(brutal) dictators as puppet-regimes and then steals away the resources of
such countries. There's only one word fit to describe the American policy
in this matter and that is parasitism. The USA is a large parasite that
cannot
stand on its own feet. The wealth is has today is almost totally based upon
raping, rampaging, destroying, robbing and the blood of the innocent in
other
countries. In a sense the USA is a pathetic country. It cannot stand on its
own
feet. It cannot feed the greed and selfishness of their own masses and
therefore
it has to keep up this policy of being the largest parasite on this planet.
If you
protest against such an inhumane and criminal policy you are labelled a
marxist
or communist. No doubt that dictators like Hitler admired this "lebensraum"
vision of the satanic leaders in the White House.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
The Independent of Clackamas County
Barbarossa wrote:
Come on now admit it, your just pissed that we didn't put a McDonalds on
the next street corner over, and some on ripped off your Nikes and your
levies while you were down collecting your stipend from the government.
Barbarossa
You mean the levies and Nikes manufactured in third world coutries where
those people earn about 1/1000th to 1/10000th, of the average American who
pays 20 to 50 dollars for levies and Nikes? Where labour-unions are
oppressed
by the same Americans or by their puppet-regimes this way forming a new
type of slavery? And you saviour Bush is opposed to ending childlabour
(childslavery) in mines etcetera? And Mcdonalds? I don't even like the
garbage
they produce there.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
Gunner
wrote:
>
>"Gunner" <gun...@lightspeed.net> schreef in bericht
>news:n3rgi01hs69fodaa4...@4ax.com...
>> On 22 Aug 2004 01:59:24 -0700, maf...@yahoo.com (maff) wrote:
>>
>> >> >
>> >> So it was ok with you that the Germans tattooed and murdered all of
>> >> their Jews, as long as they stayed inside their own borders?
>> >>
>> >> Interesting...you are not much of a humanitarian I see.
>> >
>> >A Century Of U.S. Military Interventions: From Wounded Knee to
>Afghanistan
>> >http://www.zmag.org/CrisesCurEvts/interventions.htm
>>
>> Ayup..and we still havent killed all the bad guys. But give us time.
>
>Ah, we are back to good guys/bad guys. And there goes your resentment
>and rejection of genocides committed by the USA in various parts of the
>world.
Of course. There Are Good Guys and Bad Guys. Or was Herr
Schickelgrubber simply misunderstood?
>
>Since the USA was formed it has a history of abuse, agression and violence.
Depends on who is writing this history books. It would appear to me
that we have had a hell of a lot less of it than most. Need me to cite
the history of the Euros for example?
>First against the native Americans who were murdered in a genocide, others
>who escaped were thrown into misery.
Some were, some were not. Of course you do know it was the Brits and
French who gave us Scalping, correct?
> En passant it looted Africa of vital
>young men and women to enter the USA as slaves for the various industries.
Hint..it was the Africans themselves who sold their slaves to the Arab
slave traders who then sold them to the Americans, the South Americans
and a host of other nationalities.
>The USA knows that it does not have all the resources in its own country
>and therefore it rampages other countries, even democracies,
Sure we do. The State of France and the Territory of Japan are prime
examples.
> it installs
>(brutal) dictators as puppet-regimes and then steals away the resources of
>such countries.
Sure we do. Large devestated open pits where Germany and France and
Chile, Arabia and so forth used to be.
> There's only one word fit to describe the American policy
>in this matter and that is parasitism. The USA is a large parasite that
>cannot
>stand on its own feet.
Oooo..thats good. I love the hate you spew. Shows the state of
bigotry and hypocrasy your EuroTrash exhibit.
You are posting from Belgium, are you not? The land that gave Africa
King Leopold and his murdering millions, one of the darkest annals of
any European nation, still unsurpassed today. 5-15 million Congolese
slaughtered. Seems you laddys have almost a better death toll as
Herre Schicklegrubber did in the early 40s.
Chuckle..you lads even stole slaves from the Arab slave traders and
used them until they could work no more, then hung, starved and shot
them. 5-15 million dead blacks as a result of your genocide.
> The wealth is has today is almost totally based upon
>raping, rampaging, destroying, robbing and the blood of the innocent in
>other
>countries.
See http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/leopold.html
> In a sense the USA is a pathetic country. It cannot stand on its
>own
>feet.
See http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/blitzkrieg.htm
"The next blow came a month later. In the early morning darkness of
May 10, the Germans unleashed their Blitzkrieg against the Netherlands
and Belgium. The attack sent the defending troops reeling. The roads
overflowed with refugees fleeing the front. French and British troops
rushing to the rescue were caught in the headlong retreat and pushed
back."
> It cannot feed the greed and selfishness of their own masses and
>therefore
>it has to keep up this policy of being the largest parasite on this planet.
>If you
>protest against such an inhumane and criminal policy you are labelled a
>marxist
>or communist.
Chuckle..so you dont like calling communists, communists?
> No doubt that dictators like Hitler admired this "lebensraum"
>vision of the satanic leaders in the White House.
Speaking of Satanic leaders..where did all the money go that Leopold
collected when he raped Africa? Sure wasnt into food for its slave
labor.
>
>Kind Regards,
>Barbarossa
>
See the bullshit and hypocrasy EuroTrash spews when they think they
know something of history. Though they so often appear to be completly
ignorant of it.
Ever study up on American voting law yet? Or do you prefer to remain
butt ignorant of it and look the fool when you post?
Gunner
"The Democratic Party is the party of this popular corruption.
The heart of the Democratic Party and its activist core is
made up of government unions, government dependent professions
(teachers, social workers, civil servants); special interest and
special benefits groups (abortion rights, is a good example) that
feed off the government trough; and ethnic constituencies,
African Americans being the most prominent, who are
disproportionately invested in government jobs and
in programs that government provides.
" The Democratic Party credo is 'Take as much of the people's money as politically feasible, and use that money to buy as many of the people's votes as possible'.
Tax cuts are a threat to this Democratic agenda.
Consequently, Democrats loathe and despise them."
-Semi-reformed Leftist David Horowitz
Gunner
wrote:
Oh come on..you know you eat there. Half of Belgium does.
http://www.mcdonalds.be/
Barby is simply another bit of EuroTrash that is loosely associated
with the World Communist party...take a look at the political entities
that make up Belgium
http://www.terra.es/personal2/monolith/belgium.htm
He is the product of failed, merciless colonialism at its worst, and I
suspect, secretly wishes for the old days of Belgian Glory where he
could put his foot on the neck of a black and break its neck if he
wished. His posts show the signs of rampant totalitarianism sublimated
with a hatred of anyone who is superior to him (which includes most of
the planet). Ignorant, blind, and likely stupid, he spews dreck in a
floundering effort to get the world to recognize his existance.
Sad really. Shrug.
The Independent of Clackamas County
Barbarossa wrote:
Yeap the very same ones that I own lots of shares in. Thank you for
your support, and I will say a prayer for your continued buying of
American Products, at exorbitant prices so I can get really big dividends.
Cuan
wrote:
You're talking about the same Belgium which has remained neutral
during two world wars, I presume?
The Independent of Clackamas County
Barbarossa wrote:
Hey they started it in the French and Indian wars of 1754. Oops sorry it
was you French that paid the indian to take scalps. Don't tell me
your not French you speak French.
> and cruel treatment of black slaves.
At least we ended Slavery in 1865 wile Belgium kept it up to 1966.
Ever hear of the Belgium Congo????
Then it should take a look at the
> various genocides they financed or supported in the 20th century and
Lets See the Armenian genocide of 1912 Not ours
The death of the Kulocks in Russia in the 1920's Not ours either
The Purge of the Russian military officer in the 1930's Nope
The killing of the Jew in Germany 1942-45 We weren't here either.
The marching of millions of eastern Europeans into the Gulags 1945-49
Sorry that wasn't us.
The slaughter of 100 million Chinese 1947-51 Nope we weren't there
The killing of 2-3 million VietNamese 1954-58 Not our problem
The Killing of 259,000 Cubans 1960-65 Nope
The Killing of 2 million Cambodians Sorry we weren't there.
The Killing of 25,000 indians in Nicaragua weren't there either
You got to get a better history book.
> if you as an American have done so then, and only then it is perhaps
> time you could clean your house and present policies that such will
> not happen again and if you have done so for let's say 50 years then
> it might be time that you could carefully formulate some criticism on
> other countries.
>
>
Why we American don't really criticize other countries.
It just pisses you off to realize we really don't give a rats ass about
any one that we could obliterate on a bad hair day.
>>Interesting...you are not much of a humanitarian I see.
>
>
> More than all American presidents together.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Barbarossa
Barbarossa
"Cuan" <a...@nymous.co.za> schreef in bericht
news:08uhi0dijnqjaaqa7...@4ax.com...
Problem with this gunnerboy is that he appararently cannot read good
or does not read all my messages. Otherwise he would have known that
I am not Belgian. I am a Dutch man just living in Belgium. Huge difference
that is!
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
Barbarossa
Well, I have to inform you most politely that I don't use or wear any
products from the USA as I am not interested in the blood that comes
with it from abused, robbed and enslaved people. And I certainly don't
eat that lethal "food" from Macdonalds or Burger King.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
Barbarossa
<snipped for clarity-reasons>
> >> Come on now admit it, your just pissed that we didn't put a McDonalds
on
> >> the next street corner over, and some on ripped off your Nikes and your
> >> levies while you were down collecting your stipend from the government.
> >
> >You mean the levies and Nikes manufactured in third world coutries where
> >those people earn about 1/1000th to 1/10000th, of the average American
who
> >pays 20 to 50 dollars for levies and Nikes? Where labour-unions are
> >oppressed
> >by the same Americans or by their puppet-regimes this way forming a new
> >type of slavery? And you saviour Bush is opposed to ending childlabour
> >(childslavery) in mines etcetera? And Mcdonalds? I don't even like the
> >garbage
> >they produce there.
> >
> >Kind Regards,
> >Barbarossa
> >
> Oh come on..you know you eat there. Half of Belgium does.
> http://www.mcdonalds.be/
Wow! Interesting, you either cannot read good, do not read all
messages in this thread or you have a serious memory-problem.
Somewhere else I already told this audience that I am not a Belgian!
I live in Belgium, but I am Dutch. I seriously urge you to do some
homework before you enter this arena boy!
> Barby is simply another bit of EuroTrash that is loosely associated
> with the World Communist party...take a look at the political entities
> that make up Belgium
> http://www.terra.es/personal2/monolith/belgium.htm
Oh, sure, anyone who dares to criticizes the USA must be a communist
right? Together with the other message in which you did not show any
resentment or rejection of the massacres commited by your precious
USA government and this simple-minded lumping everyone on one big
heap you pretty much resemble Hitler when he talked about the "international
jew". In his book Mein Kampf you only have to change the words "jew",
"jews" and "international jew" to communist, communists and the
international
or world communist and you barf the same stupid intolerance.
> He is the product of failed, merciless colonialism at its worst, and I
> suspect, secretly wishes for the old days of Belgian Glory where he
> could put his foot on the neck of a black and break its neck if he
> wished. His posts show the signs of rampant totalitarianism sublimated
> with a hatred of anyone who is superior to him (which includes most of
> the planet). Ignorant, blind, and likely stupid, he spews dreck in a
> floundering effort to get the world to recognize his existance.
Hey, I SHOUT IT ONCE MORE IN YOUR INCREDIBLY DEAF
EARS: I AM DUTCH AND NOT BELGIAN AT ALL!
I dare you to give all the evidence and proof that I am a supporter for
totalitarianism!
>
> "The Democratic Party is the party of this popular corruption.
> The heart of the Democratic Party and its activist core is
> made up of government unions, government dependent professions
> (teachers, social workers, civil servants); special interest and
> special benefits groups (abortion rights, is a good example) that
> feed off the government trough; and ethnic constituencies,
> African Americans being the most prominent, who are
> disproportionately invested in government jobs and
> in programs that government provides.
How strange. I don't think that Barbara Streisand is a person in
desperate need of governmental funding or welfare-checks! Neither
are a lot of American actors with international fame. Only a bunch
of cynical lowlifes like KKK-sympathizers, Nazi-sympathizers and
other very dubious and obscure people tend to your reasoning.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
Barbarossa
<snipped a lot of good criticism on the USA and even more ignorant
anti-europeanism>
There is one huge difference between the USA and Europe since WW2.
Since WW2 European countries have left almost all of their colonies.
Since WW2 the USA has not left a single colony and increased their
policy of installing puppetregimes everywhere on the globe to rob, loot,
rape and murder the innocent people and taking their resources as a huge
parasite. They have a history of oppressing free unions in those countries
and denying democratic rights to those people. They sold weaponry to
Iran (now all of a sudden one of their greatest enemy) and financed the
contras in Nicaragua to destablelize and devastate that country. It sold
weaponry to Iraq which suddenly became their greatest enemy. In other
words in long term thinking the USA leaders are not more clever than
a little child. What a way to live right? You make sure that you sell tuns
of weaponry and technology to a certain guy, that is good for your economy.
Then when this guy has enough you declare him an enemy and of great
danger to the USA and then you send ignorant boys and girls there to fight
for "freedom" after they have been thouroughly brainwashed. You bomb
away houseblocks full of innocent unarmed people, you destroy infrastructure
and then you demand that companies from your country will repair it all.
Not for free of course. Nope, those companies must be paid good. Also
good for the economy.,And I almost forgot, those ignorant boys and girls
also need weaponry.
Who pays the price for this sinister game? The poor, always the poor. Who
gets the benefits of these satanical agendas? The rich multinationals who
selected the president and the leaders of the USA anyway in this huge and
totally cinical game by the secret societies running the show in the USA.
The USA pretends to be a democracy, yet it is not. The leaders of the
USA, together with the leaders of the big multinationals determine who
will reside in the White House. The multinationals control the media and
brainwashes the masses into voting for just one of the two major parties
and the belief that they are truly living in a democracy. The USA is really
nothing more than an olichary with democratic tendencies. All American
presidents who made it a full term were freemasons, the two that were
not were assasinated (Lincoln and Kennedy) and their succesors were
freemasons again.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
The Independent of Clackamas County
Barbarossa wrote:
Your are a perfect example why the Marshall Plan was a very bad Idea.
Barbarossa
The Marshall Plan was a totally exaggerated plan. The only reason Europe
got on its feet again was by hard working men and women who knew how
to be thrifty. Without the Marshall Plan the reconstruction of Europe would
only have been delayed by 1 or 2 years. Your leaders did a good job in
utterly brainwashing you.
But even furthermore. Without any Dawes-plan or Young-plan the Germans
might not have felt so humiliated and never had voted for the NSDAP-party
and bringing Hitler into power. Ever thought about that? So, without those
stupid and dangerous plans planned in the satanic White House most likely
there would not have been a WW2 and especially not if your precious
capitalistic multinationals like Prescott Bush had not funded the Nazis to
work
out their grim and sadistic plans. Without you even not knowing it your
precious
leaders and your precious multinationals caused the rise of Adolf Hitler in
the
first place. How about that eh? Emptyhead!
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
Gunner
Which world wars were those? Not WWI and WW2.
One of the most popular weapons the Belgians used during WW1 was the
simple garden spade. Sharpened to a razors edge it was like a hell of
a trench weapon and accounted for more deaths and maimings than the
bayonet.
Btw..the 7.62 Argentine Mauser cartridge? Its actually the 7.62
Belgian. They made good killing machines. Course they had 5-15
million blacks to try them out on.
Gunner
wrote:
>> during two world wars, I presume?
>
>Problem with this gunnerboy is that he appararently cannot read good
>or does not read all my messages. Otherwise he would have known that
>I am not Belgian. I am a Dutch man just living in Belgium. Huge difference
>that is!
>
>Kind Regards,
>Barbarossa
>
Reading all of your messages? Why in Gods name would I want to do
that? You are an idiot just in the threads I participate in. Why would
I go torture myself by reading the rest of your dreck?
Now if you would care to discuss the economics behind the Dutch
Slavers undercutting their English competitors by selling blacks
cheaper, Id be most happy to do so.
Im sure folks would like a smidgeon of Dutch history.
http://www.killerplants.com/plants-that-changed-history/20040120.asp
Gunner
wrote:
>>
>> Your are a perfect example why the Marshall Plan was a very bad Idea.
>
>The Marshall Plan was a totally exaggerated plan. The only reason Europe
>got on its feet again was by hard working men and women who knew how
>to be thrifty. Without the Marshall Plan the reconstruction of Europe would
>only have been delayed by 1 or 2 years. Your leaders did a good job in
>utterly brainwashing you.
>
>But even furthermore. Without any Dawes-plan or Young-plan the Germans
>might not have felt so humiliated and never had voted for the NSDAP-party
>and bringing Hitler into power. Ever thought about that? So, without those
>stupid and dangerous plans planned in the satanic White House most likely
>there would not have been a WW2 and especially not if your precious
>capitalistic multinationals like Prescott Bush had not funded the Nazis to
>work
>out their grim and sadistic plans. Without you even not knowing it your
>precious
>leaders and your precious multinationals caused the rise of Adolf Hitler in
>the
>first place. How about that eh? Emptyhead!
>
>Kind Regards,
>Barbarossa
Actually..it was the result of the horrendous terms of the Treaty of
Versailles that ultimately caused the Germans to nutroll.
And for that we can thank the English and the French.
Gunner
wrote:
>> Oh come on..you know you eat there. Half of Belgium does.
>> http://www.mcdonalds.be/
>
>Wow! Interesting, you either cannot read good, do not read all
>messages in this thread or you have a serious memory-problem.
>Somewhere else I already told this audience that I am not a Belgian!
>I live in Belgium, but I am Dutch. I seriously urge you to do some
>homework before you enter this arena boy!
So why would a Squarehead be living in Belgium? Better dope in
Belgium?
And no..I dont read all of your messages. See my previous post.
Gunner
"The Democratic Party is the party of this popular corruption.
The heart of the Democratic Party and its activist core is
made up of government unions, government dependent professions
(teachers, social workers, civil servants); special interest and
special benefits groups (abortion rights, is a good example) that
feed off the government trough; and ethnic constituencies,
African Americans being the most prominent, who are
disproportionately invested in government jobs and
in programs that government provides.
" The Democratic Party credo is 'Take as much of the people's money as politically feasible, and use that money to buy as many of the people's votes as possible'.
Gunner
wrote:
>>
>> Yeap the very same ones that I own lots of shares in. Thank you for
>> your support, and I will say a prayer for your continued buying of
>> American Products, at exorbitant prices so I can get really big dividends.
>
>Well, I have to inform you most politely that I don't use or wear any
>products from the USA as I am not interested in the blood that comes
>with it from abused, robbed and enslaved people. And I certainly don't
>eat that lethal "food" from Macdonalds or Burger King.
>
>Kind Regards,
>Barbarossa
>
Which abused, robbed or enslaved people are you talking about,
Comrade?
Why not trot out a few cites for the folks to mull over.
Anyone here ever eat Belgian cooking? My first girlfriend was the
child of a Belgian couple who emigrated in the 50s. Their cooking
would gag a maggot.
Was that simply an anomaly or is it the norm?
Gunner
wrote:
>
>"Gunner" <gun...@lightspeed.net> schreef in bericht
>news:31phi05nh1mi43nno...@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 15:35:05 +0200, "Barbarossa" <fa07...@skynet.be>
>> wrote:
>
><snipped a lot of good criticism on the USA and even more ignorant
>anti-europeanism>
>
>There is one huge difference between the USA and Europe since WW2.
>Since WW2 European countries have left almost all of their colonies.
>Since WW2 the USA has not left a single colony and increased their
>policy of installing puppetregimes everywhere on the globe to rob, loot,
>rape and murder the innocent people and taking their resources as a huge
>parasite.
Colonies? We have colonies? HEY!! We have colonies!
Can I be a colonial despot? Which one has the best chow and the most
pliable women?
> They have a history of oppressing free unions in those countries
>and denying democratic rights to those people.
Which ones?
>They sold weaponry to
>Iran (now all of a sudden one of their greatest enemy) and financed the
>contras in Nicaragua to destablelize and devastate that country. It sold
>weaponry to Iraq which suddenly became their greatest enemy. In other
>words in long term thinking the USA leaders are not more clever than
>a little child. What a way to live right? You make sure that you sell tuns
>of weaponry and technology to a certain guy, that is good for your economy.
>Then when this guy has enough you declare him an enemy and of great
>danger to the USA and then you send ignorant boys and girls there to fight
>for "freedom" after they have been thouroughly brainwashed. You bomb
>away houseblocks full of innocent unarmed people, you destroy infrastructure
>and then you demand that companies from your country will repair it all.
>Not for free of course. Nope, those companies must be paid good. Also
>good for the economy.,And I almost forgot, those ignorant boys and girls
>also need weaponry.
>
Which weaponry is that? All those Russian tanks and russian Aks and
Russian mines and mortars and bombs and rockets and RPGs and...
>Who pays the price for this sinister game? The poor, always the poor. Who
>gets the benefits of these satanical agendas? The rich multinationals who
>selected the president and the leaders of the USA anyway in this huge and
>totally cinical game by the secret societies running the show in the USA.
Ooooh! Secret societies!! HEY! We have Colonies and Secret
Societies!!!!
Rotarians?
Knights of Columbus?
Hamiltonians?
No..Masons...gotta be the Masons running the country. Though I like
their shoes.
>
>The USA pretends to be a democracy, yet it is not. The leaders of the
>USA, together with the leaders of the big multinationals determine who
>will reside in the White House. The multinationals control the media and
>brainwashes the masses into voting for just one of the two major parties
>and the belief that they are truly living in a democracy. The USA is really
>nothing more than an olichary with democratic tendencies. All American
>presidents who made it a full term were freemasons, the two that were
>not were assasinated (Lincoln and Kennedy) and their succesors were
>freemasons again.
Ah..no..the US is not a democracy. We are a Constitutional Republic.
Masons! There ya go! Thanks for confirming it! Now when you see a
black helicopter circling your hovel, be sure to put on your Anti
Mason Mind Control Beanie (shiney side out) and run like hell. And
if you see a long black limo behind you, its gotta be a Jesuit hit
squad coming to wack your ass. (they have a reciprocal agreement with
the Masons..they take it out in comfortable shoes)
Gunner
>
>Kind Regards,
>Barbarossa
Elroy Willis
> Anyone here ever eat Belgian cooking? My first girlfriend was the
> child of a Belgian couple who emigrated in the 50s. Their cooking
> would gag a maggot.
What exactly was wrong with the cooking?
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://www.eapnews.com
Therion Ware
On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 09:01:02 GMT in alt.atheism, Elroy Willis (Elroy
Willis <e...@airmail.net>) said, directing the reply to alt.atheism
>Gunner <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote in alt.atheism
>
>> Anyone here ever eat Belgian cooking? My first girlfriend was the
>> child of a Belgian couple who emigrated in the 50s. Their cooking
>> would gag a maggot.
>
>What exactly was wrong with the cooking?
Well, in the UK, you start cooking the veg for Christmas about March.
In Belgium they start in January. Of the year before.
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
Inexpensive VHS & other video to CD/DVD conversion?
See: <http://www.Video2CD.com>. 35.00 gets your video on DVD.
all posts to this email address are automatically deleted without being read.
** atheist poster child #1 ** #442.
Gunner
wrote:
>Gunner <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote in alt.atheism
>
>> Anyone here ever eat Belgian cooking? My first girlfriend was the
>> child of a Belgian couple who emigrated in the 50s. Their cooking
>> would gag a maggot.
>
>What exactly was wrong with the cooking?
As I indicated..I dont know if it was an anomaly or standard fare..but
it was generally soaked in beer, or heavy with lard/suet and bread
crumbs. I neither like beer, nor a main dish that is reminisent of
dumping a tub of lard into a box of bread crumbs, mixing it with beer
and some unidentified meat, warming it just above the melting point of
the lard and then serving it with a huge glass of beer and some over
boiled unidentified veggies.
Id eat, then shit like a seagull for two days. Talk about greasing the
ways.....
But Gods she was good in bed.....sigh..... multiple orgasms in
multiple languages.
Elroy Willis
> Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net>) said, directing the reply to alt.atheism
>> Gunner <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote in alt.atheism
>>> Anyone here ever eat Belgian cooking? My first girlfriend was the
>>> child of a Belgian couple who emigrated in the 50s. Their cooking
>>> would gag a maggot.
>> What exactly was wrong with the cooking?
> Well, in the UK, you start cooking the veg for Christmas about March.
> In Belgium they start in January. Of the year before.
So "overcooking food" is a belgium trademark?
Elroy Willis
> Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net> wrote:
>> Gunner <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote in alt.atheism
>>> Anyone here ever eat Belgian cooking? My first girlfriend was the
>>> child of a Belgian couple who emigrated in the 50s. Their cooking
>>> would gag a maggot.
>> What exactly was wrong with the cooking?
> As I indicated..I dont know if it was an anomaly or standard fare..but
> it was generally soaked in beer, or heavy with lard/suet and bread
> crumbs. I neither like beer, nor a main dish that is reminisent of
> dumping a tub of lard into a box of bread crumbs, mixing it with beer
> and some unidentified meat, warming it just above the melting point of
> the lard and then serving it with a huge glass of beer and some over
> boiled unidentified veggies.
Sounds worse than haggis, perhaps.
> Id eat, then shit like a seagull for two days. Talk about greasing the
> ways.....
Like a food enema of sorts, eh?
> But Gods she was good in bed.....sigh..... multiple orgasms in
> multiple languages.
Kinda makes up for the poor cooking, eh?
Christopher A. Lee
wrote:
>Gunner <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote in alt.atheism
>
>> Anyone here ever eat Belgian cooking? My first girlfriend was the
>> child of a Belgian couple who emigrated in the 50s. Their cooking
>> would gag a maggot.
>
>What exactly was wrong with the cooking?
I enjoyed the food whenever my employer sent me to Brussels. Both
international and local cooking.
Strider
"Barbarossa" <fa07...@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:41262ad6$0$4179$ba62...@news.skynet.be...
>
> "Strider" <str...@usit.net> schreef in bericht
> news:4125f29a$1...@news.unc.edu...
> >
> > "Barbarossa" <fa07...@skynet.be> wrote in message
> > news:412549f6$0$4084$ba62...@news.skynet.be...
> > >
> > > "Tracy" <tr...@ev1.net> schreef in bericht
> > > news:10iaev0...@corp.supernews.com...
> > >
> > >
> > > <snipped for convienience>
> > >
> > > >>>
> > > Our ecomomy is the envy of socialists everywhere.
> > > Name a socialist country with less than 5.6 percent
> > > unemployment. Germany's was in double digits within
> > > the last year. There will always be poor people in any
> > > economy anywhere. National system performance must
> > > be measure by overall numbers.<<<
> > >
> > ***snip***
> >
> > So, as a semi-communist country, everyone is equally miserable.
>
> You have an intelligence less than an ant! There is no such thing as
> "semi-communist country", you are either living in a socialist- or
> communist economy where the latter doesn't allow you to have
> personal belongings. Or you are living in a capitalistic economy.
> All economies in Europe are certainly capitalistic.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Barbarossa
>
>
There is little difference between socialism and communism.
Strider
Strider
> > >
> > ***snip***
> >
> > So you are Communist Eurotrash.
>
> Nope, you have a problem with understanding economies, you have a big
> problem with history, you have no idea what you are talking about and you
> have a big problem with reality. I seriously urge you to seek immediate
> help!
Socialism is merely communism lite. Socialist think that NEARLY everything
belongs to the government.
> What kind of education did you have?
BBA
>
> > That explains much.
>
> See, above!
>
> Kind Regards,
> Barbarossa
You Eurotrash lost all your moral stature when you let the Nazi's, then the
Communists, take over. You will remain a continent of second rate nations,
living in the imagined glory of the past.
Strider