இலக்கணம் - சொற் தோற்றம்.

[வினோத் ராஜன்]

வணக்கம்,

இலக்கணம் என்ற சொல்லை,

இலக்கணம் < லக்கணம் (lakkhaNa) < லக்ஷணம் (lakSaNa) என்று
பிராகிருதத்தின் வாயிலாக சொற்தோற்றத்தை கொள்வது சரியா ?

[வேந்தன் அரசு]

லக்ஷணம் என்றால் இலக்கணமா?

2009/3/24 வினோத் ராஜன் <vinodh...@gmail.com>

-

--
வேந்தன் அரசு
சின்சின்னாட்டி
(வள்ளுவம் என் சமயம்)
If truth is God then God is on my side.

[வி. சு.]

On Mar 25, 7:03 am, வேந்தன் அரசு <raju.rajend...@gmail.com> wrote:
> லக்ஷணம் என்றால் இலக்கணமா?

இலக்கணம் என்பதில் அழகு என்ற பொருள் இல்லையா ? :-)

[devoo]

Mar 24, 10:08 pm, வினோத் ராஜன்

>
> இலக்கணம் < லக்கணம் (lakkhaNa) < லக்ஷணம் (lakSaNa)

லக்ஷணம் – இலக்கணம்
லக்ஷ்யம் - இலக்கியம்

தேவ்

[N. Ganesan]

8 ஆண்டுகளுக்கு முன்னம், ஜான்-லூய்க் செவ்வியார், நாராயண பிரசாத்,
அடியேன், .... உரையாடலைத் தருகிறேன். ~ கணேசன்

Thanks to JLC & NP:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CTamil/message/445
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CTamil/message/447

Let me add what Tamil experts have written about
ilakkaNam and ilakkiyam, evidently
from Sanskrit lakSaNa and lakSya respectively.

JLC>So, apparently, the general meanings of "grammar"
>and "literature" are later usages, and the original meaning
>is not so wide.

OTOH, ilakkiyam (< lakSya) and, ilakkaNam (< lakSaNa).
They seem to cover a wide field. K. Zvelebil,
Lexicon of Tamil literature, E. J. Brill, 1995
p. 247
"ilakkaNam (< Skt lakSaNa - indicating, expressing, that
which defines, mark, symbol, token, quality), grammar

ilakkiyam (< Skt. lakSya - observable, perceptible, marked,
defined, the thing defined), literature."

Also, pl. refer to S. Vaiyapuri Pillai's discussion
on p. 48-50. If there is interest, I can provide the scanned pages.
For eg., on p. 49

" pataJcali mun2ivarkkut tolkAppiyar kaTappaTTuLLaar en2patu
vERoru cAn2Raalum aRiyak kiTakkiRatu. tolkAppiyar ilakkaNam
en2Ra collai viyaakaaNam en2Ra poruLil vazaGkiyirukkin2Ran2ar.

ilakkaNa maruGkil collaa Ralla

en2ac collatikaaram 27-m cuuttirattil varukiRatu. ilakkaNam
en2patu 'lakSaNa' en2Ra vatamoziyin2 piraakirutat tiripu.
lakSaNa en2patai 'viyaakaraNam' en2Ra poruLil mutan2 mutalaaka
vazaGkiyavar pataJcali mun2ivarEyaavar. ivarukku muRpaTTu
vaarttikattai iyaRRiya kaattiyaayan2ar ipporuLai oruvaaRu
kuRippittuLLaar.

lakSya lakSaNe vyaakaraNam

en2Ra vaarttikattin2 kiiz,

"sabdo lakSya suutram lakSaNam

en2ap pataJcali mun2ivar ezutin2ar. vErOriTattum lakSaNam
en2patan2ai ipporuLpaTa ivar ezutiyuLLaar.

na lakSaNe padakaaraa anuvartyaa: padakaarai :
naama lakSaNam anuvarttiyam

(from tamil script, need correction -NG)

en2ak Kielhorn patippil iraNTaavatu sampuTattil
85-m pakkattil kaaNappaTukiRatu [1]. itumaTTum an2Ru.
lakSaNam en2patu vaTamoziyil 'kuRi' en2Rum poruLpaTum.
ik 'kuRi' en2Ra collaiyE aaciriyar tolkaappiyar ilakkaNam
en2Ra poruLil vazaGkiyuLLaar.

uLLuRai teyvam ozintatai nilamen2ak
koLLum en2pa kuRiyaRin tOrE

(tol. poruL. 50)

en2patu poruLatikArac cUttiram.

ivvaaRaaka, tolkaappiyar pataJcali mun2ivarkkuk kaTappaTTuLLaar
en2patu nan2ku teLivaakiRatu. en2avE, avar ki.mu. 150-kkup
pin2 vaazntavar en2patu aRutiyaan2amuTipaakum.

[1] P. C. Chakravarti, Linguistic speculations of the
Hindus, p. 409,3. "

K. Zvelebil, The Smile of Murugan on Tamil literature
of South India, 1973

P. 133

" 'Grammar', ilakkaNam (< Skt. lakSaNa-) has a very broad
sense here. The semantic field of the term ilakkaNam comprises
the nucleus, which is "prescripive rules about the use of
(literary) language", and still further "description of the
structure and functioning of any cultural phenomenon". In this
sense one speaks of "the grammar of dance" as well as of
"the grammar of war-poetry". Ultimately, ilakkaNam means
treatment of the structure and function of any structured
and conventionalized phenomenon: in this broadest sense, one
speaks about "the grammar of love" (the patterened and
conventionalized
"reality" underlying love-poetry) or "the grammar
of bhakti". "

p. 143, K. Zvelebil follows from S. Vaiyapuri:

" The relations between PataJjali, an early Sanskrit
grammarian, and the TolkAppiyam, seems to be well
established. It looks as if Tolk. Col. 419 is indeed
indebted to PataJjali's classification of compounds
into pUrvapadArtha-, uttarapadArtha-, anyapadArtha-,
and ubhayapadArtha-. In fact, Tolk. Col. 419 seems to be
almost a translation of PataJjali's Sanskrit text [1].

S. Vaiyapuri Pillai also points Tolkaappiyan2 using the
term ilakkaNam < Pkt. lakkhaNa-, Skt. lakSaNa- in the
sense of "grammar"; this, he says, was first introduced
by PataJjali (cf. HTLL, p. 49)[2];

The date of PataJjali's MahaabhaaSya is given as approximately
150 B.C.

------------
[1] This is the Tamil version: avai taam / mun2mozi
nilaiyalum pin2mozi nilaiyalum / irumozi mElum oruGkuTan2
nilaiyalum / ammozi nilaiyaatu an2mozi nilaiyalum /
annaan2ku en2pa poruLnilai marapE (Col. 419).

Cf. this with the Sanskrit text: iha ka"scit samaasa.h /
puurvapadaartha pradhaana.h / ka"scit uttarapadaartha pradhaana.h /
ka"scit anyapadaartha pradhaana.h / ka"scit ubhayapadaartha
pradhaana.h .
I think S. Vaiyapuri rightly stressed the fact that neither Paa.nini
nor Kaatyaayana divide compounds according to this fourfold scheme;
it seems that this division is characteristic of PataJjali,
and hence there is a special connection between PataJjali's
Mahaabhaa.sya and the tamil Tolkaappiyam (M. is the "great
commentary" of PataJjali on the suutras of Paa.nini and the
vaarttikas of kaatyaayana).

[2] CF. Tolk. Co. 27. Before PataJjali, only the term vyaakaraNa-
was used to denote "grammar". Cf. also Tolkaappiyan2's use of
the loan-translation kuRi "sign" (cf. Skt. lakSaNa- in the same
meaning) to denote "grammar" in Tolk. PoruL. 50. These points
are discussed at length in Tamil by S. Vaiyapuri in his
Tamizc cuTar maNikaL (ed. 1959) p. 50".

More will follow,
N. Ganesan

[வேந்தன் அரசு]

2009/3/24 devoo <rde...@gmail.com>

லக்ஷணம் என்றால் Grammer?

லக்ஷ்யம்  என்றால் literature?

 

[வேந்தன் அரசு]

2009/3/25 N. Ganesan <naa.g...@gmail.com>

 

 

கணேசர்

சுருங்க சொல்லி விளங்க வையுங்க‌
அனுமாரை போல் சஞ்சீவி மலை எதுக்கு?

[N. Ganesan]

On Mar 25, 9:12 am, வேந்தன் அரசு <raju.rajend...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2009/3/25 N. Ganesan <naa.gane...@gmail.com>

>
> கணேசர்
> சுருங்க சொல்லி விளங்க வையுங்க‌
> அனுமாரை போல் சஞ்சீவி மலை எதுக்கு?
>
> --

ABT symbol aachE :)

[N. Ganesan]

A seminar on related topics.

Prof. K. Nachimuthu, JNU, Delhi informed me first about
the forthcomg Cambridge university seminar.
It is announced in CTamil, University of Paris, list
by Dr. Jean-Luc Chevillard,
http://www.services.cnrs.fr/wws

http://www.ames.cam.ac.uk/news_events/sanskrit-tamil-mediaeval-india.htm
Bilingual Discourse and Cross-cultural Fertilisation:
Sanskrit and Tamil in Mediaeval India
International Workshop 22nd - 23rd May, 2009
Convenors: Dr Vincenzo Vergiani (Faculty of Asian & Middle Eastern
Studies, University of Cambridge) and Dr Whitney Cox (School of
Oriental & African Studies, University of London).

Venue: Wolfson College, Cambridge.

The generous support of the British Academy is gratefully acknowledged

About the workshop
Sanskrit, pre-modern South Asia's cosmopolitan language of culture and
learning, and Tamil, the oldest and best preserved South Asian
vernacular, existed for centuries in a state of mutual influence. It
is clear from historical sources and other sorts of textual evidence
that bilingualism was very common among literati writing in Tamil,
while the influence of the Dravidian language on the style and usage
of those writing in Sanskrit is evident across a wide variety of
genres and discourses.

There has been some scholarly discussion on the relation of the two
languages’ literary cultures (Hart 1976, Hardy 1983, and Tieken 2001),
but hardly any research on their intellectual and philological textual
traditions. Other than the pioneering work of P.S.S. Sastri (1930,
1946) and the recent work of Takahashi (1995) and Wilden (2004), this
discussion is as yet in its infancy.

This international workshop seeks to assess the current state of the
questions of the relationship between Sanskrit and Tamil, to ask new
questions of the abundant primary materials, and to place this
scholarly discussion within the wider framework of the humanistic and
social study of language in society and culture.

The workshop will take as its starting point the question of
translation, especially the creation of parallel or equivalent
technical vocabularies and discursive strategies within the Sanskrit
and Tamil knowledge systems of grammar, phonetics, theology,
jurisprudence, and literary theory.

The creation of these systems of equivalence- translations of Sanskrit
vocabularies and conceptual schemata within Tamil will be the
principal object of study, but we also intend to examine the ways in
which this process reflected back into Sanskrit systematic thought
within Southern India (in this respect, our workshop is an
intellectual-historical counterpart to Bronner and Shulman's [2006]
recent arguments about the creation of local Sanskrit literary
cultures).

The participants have independently been working on this topic area,
and this workshop will provide a unique forum for them to present and
discuss their findings.

http://www.ames.cam.ac.uk/news_events/stmi-abstracts/
(for the PDFs, click the above URL).

Abstracts
The /ṣaṭ pratyaya/ in /Vīracōḻiyam/ and /Yāpparuṅkalavirutti/ and
their sources: a tentative chronology (Jean-Luc Chevillard, CNRS,
Paris)

Caught in Translation: Kerala Manipravalam, from Tamil through
Sanskrit (Rich Freeman)

Legal Diglossia in Medieval Tamil Nadu (Timothy Lubin, Washington and
Lee University)

Negotiating Tamil-Sanskrit Contacts: Engagements by Tamil Grammarians
(Krishnaswamy Nachimuthu, Centre of Indian Languages, Jawaharlal Nehru
University, New Delhi)

Words for Worship: Tamil and Sanskrit in Medieval Temple Inscriptions
(Leslie C. Orr, Concordia University, Montreal)

Mapping and Integrating Traditions Through Poetry and Grammar (V.S.
Rajam, USA)

A Sanskrit?) Theory of the Imagination from Sixteenth-Century Senji
(David Shulman, Hebrew University, Jerusalem)
Is clearing or plowing equal to killing? Tamil culture and the spread
of Jainism in Tamilnadu (Takanobu Takahashi, Tokyo)

(Title TBA) Herman Tieken (Leiden)

Ten Stages of Love (daśa kāmāvasthāh) and Eight Types of Marriage
(aṣtavivāha) in the Tolkāppiyam (Eva Wilden, EFEO, Hamburg
University)