இந்து என்ற சொல்லிற்கு வேறு ஏதேனும் பொருள் உள்ளதா ?
இந்து என்ற சொல் முதன் முதலில் பயன்படுத்தப் பட்டது எப்போது ?
Origin of the word ‘Hindu’
The word ‘Hindu’ is not a Sanskrit word or nor mentioned in any of the ancient major texts of India. It is believed to be originated from the ancient Persians. The Persians who were shared some common culture with the people of Indian sub-continent used to call the Indus River as ‘Sindhu.’ Due to some linguistic problems, they could not pronounce the letter ‘S’ in their language and started mispronouncing it as ‘H’. Thus they started pronouncing the word Sindhu as Hindu. The ancient Greeks, American and the rest of the world followed the same word and started calling the Indus river valley people as Hindus and gradually the word stuck.
Origin of the word ‘Hindustan’
Even the word ‘Hindustan’ is not originated from the mouth of any Indian. The Muslim travelers and rulers who came to India during the medieval period called the Indian subcontinent as ‘Hindustan’ and its people as ‘Hindus.’ The British too followed the same words and later they used this name religiously to distinguish Hindus from Muslims and Christians.
ViSu
It is wrong. Originally 'Hindu' was the word used in Arab and Persian
countries to refer to ALL inhabitants of the Indian sub-continent,
irrespective of religion. Even now in the minds of many Arabs, that
is what Hindu means. Hindustan meant all of Indian subcontinent.
When Iqbal wrote 'Sara jahan se accha Hindustan' , he meant Indian
nation, not the 'country of Hindus'.
When Delhi Imam Bokhari went to mecca to pray, the man sitting next to
him asked him whether he was Hindu. He meant 'Hindu' in the old sense
of an inhabitant of India. , but Bokhari was aghast.
In Guru Govind Singh's writings, Hindu means what it is today.
"பெரியாரின் கட்டுரை" is as usual misinformed.
Vijayaraghavan
On 23 Mar, 04:01, வி. சு. <vijayakumar.subbu...@gmail.com> wrote:ViSu
> முகலாயர்கள் (அரேபியர்கள் ?!) முஸ்லிம் அல்லாதவர்களைக் குறிக்க இந்து
> என்ற சொல்லைப் பயன்படுத்தியதாக பெரியாரின் கட்டுரையில் படித்தேன்.
It is wrong. Originally 'Hindu' was the word used in Arab and Persian
countries to refer to ALL inhabitants of the Indian sub-continent,
irrespective of religion. Even now in the minds of many Arabs, that
is what Hindu means. Hindustan meant all of Indian subcontinent.
As usual a 'bone of contention" area! It would worthwhile to analyse
or atleast read Periyar's texts to know the facts. Why he mentioned
முகலாயர்கள் (அரேபியர்கள் ?!) முஸ்லிம் அல்லாதவர்களைக் குறிக்க இந்து
word was used
Periyar mentioned after interacting with his good mates Rajaji & his
muslim friends before he made the comment in a meeting in the mid 60s.
"A man is wise with the wisdom of his time only, and ignorant with its
ignorance." - Henry David Thoreau
What is ancient "Hindu" writings?
> A Sanskrit scholar, Swami Mangal Nathji, had found ancient Hindu writingsWhat is ancient "Hindu" writings?
> called Birhannaradi Purana in Hoshiarpur (Punjab)
Interesting to note that in a matriarchial society the word
"fatherland" appears! Have there been quotations of fatherland in our
puranas?
After the click to the link provided by you did'nt reveal any scope
mentioned by you about "Hindu" writings!
Well should I rephrase my question! Have there been "any" quotations
Should it not be indic or sanskrit writings, rather than Hindu
writings!
பித்ருபூமி - Thats exactly what I was looking out for. Thanks:-)
Well,we have not lost the courage to google,but surely lost the
courage (inclusive of Hindupedia) to quote the puranas you had
mentioned in any web-links for the meaning of "Hindu". As the WWW
still quotes the word "Hindu" as a derivation of Persian/Arabic
language!
That is why the Indian Constitution refers to India or Bharat
Vijayaraghavan
> I hope we have not yet lost the courage to Google.Well,we have not lost the courage to google,but surely lost the
courage (inclusive of Hindupedia) to quote the puranas you had
mentioned
in any web-links for the meaning of "Hindu". As the WWW
still quotes the word "Hindu" as a derivation of Persian/Arabic
language!
Hariki,you have mistaken my train of thoughts for the below message;
> I hope we have not yet lost the courage to Google.
> Well,we have not lost the courage to google,but surely lost the
> courage (inclusive of Hindupedia) to quote the puranas you had
> mentioned
I meant that in this day & age, we quote google for "all or nothing"!
Should it not be that these puranas you had quoted for the sanskrit
origin of the word "Hindu" be widely mentioned in the other web-links
for the meaning of Hindu was my concern. Should it not be for
Hindupedia or the author of the article to mention/inform Wikipedia or
the India Government of the instances in Sanskrit.
> The Puranas are stated by name. If WE need the link, for each of the Purana
> that is quoted, then WE will need a word for word translation and then WE
> will need to verify the credentials and authenticity of the translation.
Why should not these puranas & their verses be on the web. Why should
it be occult in this day & age? This very forum's objective is to
digitise ancient works & if the Tamil translations are available,I'm
certain THF will be glad to preserve these puranas in their treasure
trove. Any translations has been & will continue to go thru the
verification of the credentials & authenticity is something Hariki
knows pretty well:-)
Rather than selective vision impairment & losing the ability to read
beyond the line - it would be better to think beyond the box or else
we never cease to ride a horse within a pot!
> For the help of those with selective vision impairment and lost the abilityHariki,you have mistaken my train of thoughts for the below message;
> to read what is available over there beyond the line which suits OUR
> convenience. This line is very much there in the page I had given a link
for the meaning of Hindu was my concern. Should it not be forHindupedia or the author of the article to mention/inform Wikipedia or
the India Government of the instances in Sanskrit.
Why should not these puranas & their verses be on the web. Why should
it be occult in this day & age? This very forum's objective is to
digitise ancient works & if the Tamil translations are available,I'm
certain THF will be glad to preserve these puranas in their treasure
trove. Any translations has been & will continue to go thru the
verification of the credentials & authenticity is something Hariki
knows pretty well:-)
Rather than selective vision impairment & losing the ability to read
beyond the line - it would be better to think beyond the box or else
we never cease to ride a horse within a pot!
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For a start,I'm surprised by the length of the response!
There is neither dramatics or sarcasm,nor belittling anyone's
credentials or upbringing. We tend to think the response messages are
some sort of "fault finding" rather than they are more to make our
Thamizh community to improve & evolve. Minthamizh forum has faced
these misunderstanding & its surprises that even seniors are falling
prey to it!
Rather than expecting tolerance & understanding from some,it looks
silence is bliss on occasions:-)
கன்னடக்காரர்களுக்குத் தமிழர் எப்பகுதியைச் சார்ந்தவராயினும் ’கொங்கரு’;
கேரளியருக்கு ‘பாண்டி’; வடபுலத்தவருக்குத் தென்னிந்தியர் அனைவரும்
‘மதராஸி’
தேவ்
Look at 'what is in a name?' thread. I'm being bashed baselessly. In
fact I was trying to appreciate a posting!!
Nobody comes in to say a few words about how we conduct ourselves in
MinTamil :-(
Kannan
On what basis you assume India or even Tamilnadu is a "matriarchial
society " ? My understanding is except few parts of India (not
Tamilnadu), patriarchy is the norm.
Vijayaraghavan
More than silence, bit of work in searching for authentic
information , either in printed medium or google , is bliss.
Vijayaraghavan
There is no doubt about that Vijayaraghavan,but some in the forum feel
aggrieved even for any betterment exercises for the Thamizh community!
On what basis you say India or even Tamilnadu is NOT a matriarchial
society?
> My understanding is except few parts of India (not
> Tamilnadu), patriarchy is the norm.
Can you elaborate where patriarchy is the norm in India?
I don't think anyone feels aggrieved about betterment exercises for
the Thamizh community. I think some may feel aggrieved if it is only
their duty to undertake all the exercises needed. Given the fact how
busy people are, some would like those 'exercises' to be spread more
evenly.
Vijayaraghavan
I agree to disagree:-)
> I think some may feel aggrieved if it is only
> their duty to undertake all the exercises needed. Given the fact how
> busy people are, some would like those 'exercises' to be spread more
> evenly.
Unfortunately,that culture has not taken roots,as expected.
Since you asserted India is matriarchal, the onus is you to
substantiate first
>
> > My understanding is except few parts of India (not
> > Tamilnadu), patriarchy is the norm.
>
> Can you elaborate where patriarchy is the norm in India?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism_in_India
"India is also a patriarchal society, which, by definition, describes
cultures in which males as fathers or husbands are assumed to be in
charge and the official heads of household. The descent and
inheritance are traced through the male line, known as a patrilineal
system, and they are generally in control of the distribution of
family resources."
Please go through any anthropology or sociology book, By any defition
India and Tamilnadu is a patriarchal society
Vijayaraghavan
ஹிமாலயம் சமாரப்ய யாவத் இந்து சரோவரம்௧
தம் தேவநிர்மிதம் தேசம் ஹிந்துஸ்தானம் ப்ரசக்ஸ்யதே!
பொருள்: இமயம் தொட்டு சமுத்திரம் வரை பறந்து கிடக்கும், தேவர்களால்
நிர்மாணிக்கப்பட்ட இந்த தேசம் ஹிந்துஸ்தானம் எனப்படுகிறது.
விஷ்ணுபுராணம் கூறும் சுலோகம்:
உத்தரம் யத்சமுத்ரஷ்ய ஹிமாத்ரேஸ் சைவ தக்ஷிணம்
வர்ஷம் பாரதம் நாம பாரதீ யாத்ரா சந்ததி!
பொருள்: வட எல்லையாக இமய மலையு, தென் எல்லையாக சமுத்திரமும் கொண்ட
நிலப்பகுதி பாரதம். இங்கு வாழும் குடிமக்கள் பாரதீயர்கள்.
இரண்டையும் கருத்தில் கொண்டால், அராபியர்களால் தான் நமக்கு இந்துக்கள்
என்று பெயர் வந்தது என்று சொல்வது தவறு என்று புரியும்.
-வ.மு.முரளி.
On 23 Mar, 09:01, வி. சு. <vijayakumar.subbu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> முகலாயர்கள் (அரேபியர்கள் ?!) முஸ்லிம் அல்லாதவர்களைக் குறிக்க இந்து
> என்ற சொல்லைப் பயன்படுத்தியதாக பெரியாரின் கட்டுரையில் படித்தேன்.
> அரபியில் "இந்து" என்பதன் பொருள், முஸ்லிம் அல்லாதவர்கள் (ஏனைய, இதர,
> மீதி, rest of).
>
> இந்து என்ற சொல்லிற்கு வேறு ஏதேனும் பொருள் உள்ளதா ?
>
> இந்து என்ற சொல் முதன் முதலில் பயன்படுத்தப் பட்டது எப்போது ?
I never "assert"ed! I only pondered,if you had read my statement
properly!
> Please go through any anthropology or sociology book, By any defition
> India and Tamilnadu is a patriarchal society
Thanks for the clarification.
இப்படியெல்லாம் யாரும் தமிழகத்தில் சொல்லிக்கொடுத்ததில்லை ஐயா! நாங்கள்
கற்றதெல்லாம் வெறும் கசடு என்று தோன்றுகிறது. ஒரு நாலாயிரம் கற்றோமா?
தாயுமானவர் கற்றோமா? வள்ளலாரைப் பயின்றோமா? நான்செக்குலார் என்ற பேரில்
எம் மரபு எம்மிடமிருந்து மறைக்கப்பட்டுவிட்டது!
காஞ்சிப் பெரியவர் ஒருமுறை சொன்னார். நாம் சரித்திரமென்று பாபர் என்ன
செய்தார், ஔரங்கசீப் ஏன் தலைநகரை மாற்றினான் என்று படித்துக் கொண்டு
இருக்கிறோம். ஆனால், ஒரு சங்கரர் பற்றியோ, குமார பட்டர் பற்றியோ, ஆரிய
பட்டா பற்றியோ, சித்தர்கள் பற்றியோ, ஏன் சேர, சோழ, பாண்டியர்கள் பற்றியோ
கூடச் சரியாகப்படிப்பதில்லை. டென்மார்க்கின் தலைநகர் எதுவென்றால்
சரியாகச் சொல்லும் மாணவனுக்கு கொற்கைத்துறைமுகம் பற்றித்தெரியாது!
உண்மையில், மரபுக்கல்வி தரும் ஹரியண்ண, ரங்கண்ணா மற்றும் அனைவருக்கும் மிக்க நன்றி.
க.>
2010/3/24 வ.மு.முரளி <vamum...@gmail.com>:
உத்ரம் யத்சமுத்ரஷ்ய - வடக்கே சமுத்திரம் ?!
ஹிமாத்ரேஸ் சைவ தக்ஷிணம் - தெற்கே ஹிமாலயம் ?! (அதென்ன "சைவ
தக்ஷிணம்" ?!)
> இரண்டையும் கருத்தில் கொண்டால், அராபியர்களால் தான் நமக்கு இந்துக்கள்
> என்று பெயர் வந்தது என்று சொல்வது தவறு என்று புரியும்.
பிருஹஸ்பத்திய ஆகமம் அரேபியர்களுக்கு முற்பட்டதா ?
இந்த பக்கத்தில் பட்டர் - அம்பட்டன்(ர்) பற்றிய ஒரு கதை உள்ளது.
பிருஹஸ்பத்திய ஆகமம் கூறும் சுலோகம்:
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சங்கரர் இரும்புக் குழம்பு குடித்தாகக் கூட ஒரு கதையுண்டு ;-)
நான் அதையெல்லாம் சொல்ல வரவில்லை என்று உங்களுக்குப் புரியும்! சரி,
இந்தக் கதையைச் சொல்லிவிடுங்கள். கதையில் சஸ்பென்ஸ் கூடாது :-))
க.>
2010/3/25 வி. சு. <vijayakuma...@gmail.com>:
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வெள்ளத்தால் போகாது, வெந்தணலால் வேகாது
கொள்ளத்தான் இயலாது, கொடுத்தாலும் நிறைவொழிய குறைபடாது
கள்வர்க்கோ மிக அரிது, காவலோ மிக எளிது..
Tamil Heritage Foundation - http://www.tamilheritage.org/
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ஓஹோ! இந்த கேள்வி எனக்கு முன்னரே கேட்கப்பட்டுவிட்டதா? நான் கவனிக்கவில்லை. நல்லது.கூகிளில் நோண்டிப் பார்த்தால் இதை மேற்க்கோள் காட்டும் பலரும் இது எங்கிருந்து வந்தது என்பதை கூறவில்லை. பிருஹஸ்பதி சம்ஹிதை என்பதே உறுதியாகத் தெரியவில்லை.இந்தியாவைப் பற்றி லார்ட் மெக்காலே சொன்னதாக மடல்கள் வருமே அந்த வகையறாவாக இருக்கக் கூடாது என்று நம்புவோம்.
My point was that there might also be an Indian source of the word Hindu, and it was not necessarily arbitrarily chosen by the foreigners.
Quoting from Stephen-Knapps article on the subject: “The following verse, said to be from the Vishnu Purana, Padma Purana and the Bruhaspati Samhita, is provided as proof, yet I am still waiting to learn the exact location where we can find this verse:
Aaasindo Sindhu Paryantham Yasyabharatha Bhoomikah
Mathrubhuh Pithrubhoochaiva sah Vai Hindurithismrithaah
Another verse reads as: Sapta sindhu muthal Sindhu maha samudhram vareyulla Bharatha bhoomi aarkkellamaano Mathru bhoomiyum Pithru bhoomiyumayittullathu, avaraanu hindukkalaayi ariyappedunnathu. Both of these verses more or less indicate that whoever considers the land of Bharatha Bhoomi between Sapta Sindu and the Indian Ocean as his or her motherland and fatherland is known as Hindu. ”
Swami Dayananda Saraswathi of Arsha Vidya gurukulam ( Annaikatti, Coimbatore) also explaing that even though, this word is considered as given by the persians, its roots in Sanskrit have the meaning as one who upholds dharma
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An Indian muslim scholor says
http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9706&L=indology&D=1&O=D&F=P&P=31250
Dear Members of the List:
The word 'hind' is always understood as referring to the region east
of the Indus, that is India. Both in Arabic as well as Persian it has
no derogatory meaning. I am not too familiar with Turkish though. I
know of several Arabs having their last name 'hindi', implying either
their ancesters migrated from the east (India) or that they had some
sort of trade or educational pursuit relating to India.
In fact, deriving its significance from Persian, perhaps, in Urdu,
hindu often meant a 'pandit' or a learned man, (or a long-haired man).
But anyhow I have never heard (and believe me I have heard a lot of
things about hindus growing up as a muslim in India) the implication
'chor'.
regards,
Irfan Omar Temple University
On Fri, 20 Jun 1997, Inst. Of Asian Cultures wrote:
> > I have heard, but cannot confirm it, that one of the meanings of hindu, or > a derivation of it, in Arabic/Turk/Persian language(s) means 'chor' > (thief). Perhaps that's a possible reason the term 'hindu' is considered > derogatory. > > Sushil Jain > > >
Vijayaraghavan