No Surrender (to The Ira)

[Darth Sanderson]

Myquestion: If I surrender my green card, what will happen to my IRA (it was established during the time I worked in US for the 1st 10 years of my career)? Are there any tax implications and will I be forced to withdraw from my IRA or can I leave it there until retirement age even though I will no longer be a green card holder?

It's going to depend on whether you are a covered or non-covered individual. "Covered Individuals" are those whose annual net income or net worth exceeds certain levels and who fail to certify that complied with all Federal tax obligations for the 5 years preceding the expatriation date. For these individuals, the account is treated as distributed. The 10% penalty does not apply. You don't actually have to close the account, but you will be taxed on subsequent earnings when the account is finally closed.

For everyone else, the account can remain open and tax deferred. Unlike Covered Individuals, you could be subject to the 10% early withdrawal penalty. Obviously, you end up paying taxes once you receive a distribution. Additionally, if you keep the IRA open after surrendering your green card, you will have to navigate the complicated waters of international tax treaties once you finally do take a distribution. In my opinion, unless there is some compelling reason to stay tied to the U.S. tax system (e.g., you are facing a large early distribution penalty), it's probably better to take the distribution, pay any tax, and just simply be done with it all.

"No Surrender (to the IRA)" is a British football chant sung to the tune of the "Oil in My Lamp" hymn which expresses opposition to the Provisional Irish Republican Army. It was commonly sung in UK pubs in the 1970s and 1980s, including by Rangers F.C. supporters, many of whom held strong unionist sentiments. It may have been adopted by English fans who switched to following Scottish football clubs (including Rangers F.C.) during the five-year period that English clubs were banned from competing in UEFA competitions following the 1985 Heysel Stadium disaster. By the 21st century, the song has become controversial in both the UK and Ireland. In 2013, The Football Association of England emailed supporters, asking them to refrain from singing it ahead of a May 2013 game against the Republic of Ireland national football team.

The "No Surrender" slogan derives from the 1689 Siege of Derry during the Williamite War in Ireland.[1] The song is associated with unionism and particularly Ulster loyalism. It expresses opposition to the Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA), which carried out hundreds of bombings and killings targeting British security forces and civilians during the Troubles.[2] The origins of the song are unknown but it was chanted in British pubs in the 1970s and 1980s and has been associated with the National Front and the British National Party.[3][4][5]

The song came to be sung by Rangers F.C. supporters, many of whom have strong unionist beliefs, in contrast with the pro-Irish republican sentiments of many supporters of Celtic F.C., their Old Firm rivals. The song may have been popularised among English football fans after the Heysel Stadium disaster in Brussels in 1985, which resulted in a five-year ban on English clubs competing in UEFA competitions. Some English fans chose to follow Scottish clubs instead and Rangers, one of the more successful, attracted a sizeable English following.[2]

The chant is not taken up by all supporters but has become associated with English fans in the late 20th and the 21st century, being particularly noticeable at away matches.[2][4][5] A 2013 BBC report said that the chanting seemed to originate within sections occupied by members of the official supporter's club.[2] The chant's popularity has lasted long after the 1998 Good Friday Agreement ended the Troubles.[2] The chant has also been used by members of the English Defence League and, since the war on terror began in 2001, has been modified in some cases to refer to al-Qaeda and the Taliban instead of the IRA.[3][6] Other variants have referred to the eurozone crisis with "IRA" being replaced with "IMF" (International Monetary Fund), "EU" (European Union) or "ECB" (European Central Bank).[2]

While some fans consider the song controversial, sectarian and associated with the far-right and refuse to sing the chant, others consider it only as an anti-terrorist statement and continue to sing the chant.[2][5] It is not a criminal offence to sing "No Surrender" but in some circumstances it could be considered by some people to contravene article three of FIFA's statutes: "Discrimination of any kind against a country, private person or group of people on account of ethnic origin, gender, language, religion, politics or any other reason is strictly prohibited and punishable by suspension or expulsion".[7]

In addition to the song some fans insert a shout of "no surrender" into the musical bridge before the line "send him victorious" in God Save the King.[2] The Football Association (FA) has, on a number of occasions, attempted to drown this out by increasing the volume of the music.[4]

The issue was brought to the fore again ahead of the November 2014 match against Scotland at Celtic Park, Glasgow. Given the host ground the FA was mindful of causing unrest and again requested that the song not be sung. This time it was not, but the fans instead chanted "fuck the IRA" in time with the drums of the supporters' band for ten minutes at a time. At half time in the match an FA representative requested that the drummers stop playing.[9] In recent years the song has continued to be sung by England supporters including at the June 2019 UEFA Nations League Finals in Portugal and during unrest in Prague 2019 associated with a UEFA Euro 2020 qualifying match.[10][11]

I wanted to transfer from my annuity IRA to my brokerage IRA in 2021. I asked the brokerage to initiate the transfer of a Roth and and IRA account to my respective brokerage accounts. The Roth was submitted, but the IRA was handled as a "Surrender", which means it was turned into cash, and put in my bank, which I subsequently sent to my IRA. I received a 1099-R for the "surrender" with a taxable amount in box 2a. I think there is a transfer period that is allowed for the rollover in cash. How do I handle the transfer in TurboTax while entering the 1099-R?

The code D indicates that you sold a nonqualified annuity. Such an annuity is not eligible for rollover. By putting the proceeds of the surrender of the nonqualified annuity into an IRA, you made a new IRA contribution, not a rollover. If the amount that you put into the IRA was more than you were eligible to contribute for 2021, you've made an excess contribution to the IRA.

If you told the IRA custodian that this was a rollover, you'll need to contact them to make the correction to show that this was not a rollover but was instead a regular contribution, otherwise the Form 5498 that they send to you and to the IRS will incorrectly show this as a rollover.

If this has resulted in an excess contribution for 2021, you'll also need to request that the custodian make an explicit return of excess contribution, otherwise the amount of the excess will be subject to a 6% excess contribution penalty every year it remains in the account.

I withdrew $150,000 for a few weeks last summer, and returned it within the 60 day limit. I also took $31,000 out of the account during the year. My 1099-R has the same amount, $181,000, listed in both box 1 and 2a, and also had Box 7 marked as 7, normal distribution, instead of as a rollover. How do I fix this? TurboTax is calculating a huge tax debt.

After you enter your 1099-R form, you will see a screen that says What Did You Do With The Money from (name of investment.) To which you should answer that you moved the money to another retirement account and also that you did a combination of rolling over, converting, or cashing out the money. Then, you will see a box where you can enter the amount you rolled over to another retirement account. The amount you enter there will not be taxed.

@derohanes You must indicate that you moved the funds to another retirement account to get the options to indicate that the funds were rolled over. You will see this page after you enter your form 1900-R:

@ThomasM125 I deleted the entry and re-entered the information in the 1099-R screen. Before the screens I listed above, I get a screen asking if the IRA/SEP/SIMPLE box is checked. Mine is not. Otherwise the only screens I get are the ones I listed above. Is there something else that needs to be checked to get the screen asking what I did with the money?

@derohanes You have to indicate that the distribution is from a Qualified Plan or you won't be able to do a tax-free rollover and you won't see the screens I referenced. Go back through the 1099-R entry and look for the screen that says Was This Distribution From a Qualified Plan? and make sure you indicated that it was, if applicable.

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