Ideal computer to buy for Minix3?

[Patrick]

I am 37. 20 years ago I didn't really know, or want to know, how to use a computer. I can't believe this is happening but I am actually truly saddened by my computer situation right now.

I have been using Linux as my primary desktop for 9 years now.  The first 7 years or so seemed so great but since the gnome3 thing, things just seem to be going downhill. LXDE, KDE, XFCE, Mate, Gnome-anything all seem to be horrible now. My window manger became corrupt the other day, this has happened 5 or 6 times in the past year. For one reason or another I have probably reinstalled 50+ times this past year.

I would really like to give Minix3 a go on hardware and if that fails, Linux without a GUI. I'll have to keep a GUI machine beside it but at least I will try to do everything I possible can with the Minix3 one

I know there is very limited support for ethernet cards, is there a computer I can buy in stores now that will run Minix3 well? Is there a machine that makes since from a price point of view too? If we only get 80 columns by 50 rows, a high end graphics chip doesn't sound logical.

If you happen to know of an RS232 card that would work well to that would be so great too.

Please help, I am really bummed out about this-Patrick

[Thomas Cort]

> I know there is very limited support for ethernet cards, is there a computer
> I can buy in stores now that will run Minix3 well? Is there a machine that
> makes since from a price point of view too? If we only get 80 columns by 50
> rows, a high end graphics chip doesn't sound logical.
> If you happen to know of an RS232 card that would work well to that would be
> so great too.

I'm not sure that most computers that are "in stores now" would be a
good choice. Minix only runs in 32-bit mode and support for SMP
(multicore) is still experimental. So if you buy something with 16GB
of RAM, much of it would go unused. Similarly, only 1 core would get
used. I'd suggest getting something 2nd hand with a single 2GHz+ x86
CPU, 1GB or 2GB of RAM, 20GB+ IDE HD, a CD-ROM, and a supported
network card. Alternatively, you could get a modern computer with
virtualization extensions (AMD-V, VT-x, VIA VT), install a minimal
Linux system, and run Minix in a virtual machine; maybe with some
scripts so that when you turn your computer on, it automatically
brings up the Minix virtual machine.

Specific suggestion: in 2010 I bought an off-lease IBM ThinkCentre S51
8173 Desktop PC (Intel Pentium 4 3.2GHz, 1GB DDR, 80GB HDD, DVD-ROM,
No OS) for around $170. You could probably get one for less these days
on eBay or something. I put in a TP-LINK TG-3269 network card (Realtek
8169 chip set - PCI ID 10EC:8169) for about $20. It works great for
Minix. The on-board serial also works in Minix; I setup the console on
the serial port and connected to it from my main PC. The only problem
was that I couldn't get the on-board video card working in X11; it
worked fine for text based stuff. Though, I didn't try too hard to get
the X11 stuff working.

Thomas

[Antoine LECA]

Thomas Cort wrote:
> [...] I'd suggest getting something 2nd hand with a single 2GHz+ x86

> CPU, 1GB or 2GB of RAM, 20GB+ IDE HD, a CD-ROM, and a supported
> network card. Alternatively, you could get a modern computer with
> virtualization extensions (AMD-V, VT-x, VIA VT), install a minimal
> Linux system, and run Minix in a virtual machine; maybe with some
> scripts so that when you turn your computer on, it automatically
> brings up the Minix virtual machine.
>
> Specific suggestion: in 2010 I bought an off-lease IBM ThinkCentre S51
> 8173 Desktop PC (Intel Pentium 4 3.2GHz, 1GB DDR, 80GB HDD, DVD-ROM,
> No OS) for around $170. You could probably get one for less these days

> on eBay or something. [...]

... or even cheaper, ask people which are maintaining computers at
businesses, or alternatively their brokers: the kind of desktops they
are currently disinvesting as part of the normal life cycle, are within
the specifications to run present MINIX 3, i.e. basically the same as
above, perhaps a bit less in memory, more likely to be .5 to 1 GiB.
Those computers are a problem for the ecological consequences of their
wasting, and most of them are in fact perfectly functional, they have
just became out-dated when it comes to use them to run a business (and
they are noisier, and they draw more current than the latest ones.)
You might have to buy a PCI network card, if the integrated one is not
of a kind supported by MINIX, and perhaps replace the CMOS battery.

Also keep in mind that currently MINIX wants PS/2 style keyboard.


Antoine

[roarde]

On Sun, 7 Jul 2013 17:13:44 -0700 (PDT)
Patrick <halfm...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I have been using Linux as my primary desktop for 9 years now. The first 7
> years or so seemed so great but since the gnome3 thing, things just seem to

> be going downhill. For one reason or another I have

> probably reinstalled 50+ times this past year.
>
> I would really like to give Minix3 a go on hardware and if that fails,
> Linux without a GUI. I'll have to keep a GUI machine beside it but at least
> I will try to do everything I possible can with the Minix3 one
>

I see two problems here. In my opinion, Minix 3 isn't useful enough right now to replace a personal, daily-use OS. So the answer to problem #1 is select a different Linux distribution or perhaps a BSD. Since you seem willing to do configuration, an even lighter, separate window manager, file manager, etc. is probably a good answer. Those interested in Minix and on this list probably have some good recommendations. I have mine, but don't think it appropriate to give them until the thread name changes. So, to problem #2.

I'd also like to know what widely available hardware is good for running Minix 3 as-is, not in vm. On that, no suggestions here.

--
roarde <roa...@sixforty.net>

[Patrick Mc(avery]

Hi Thomas, Ciao Antoine, Hello Roarde

Thanks for all your valuable. There are lot os bits and pieces in here
that are useful.

So yes, I am stuck with Linux in front of me, there are just too many
graphical things I need. However I really want to start a migration back
to basics where ever it is possible. I could do all my computer
programming in vim on a simple machine.

If i set up Minix3 or failing that Linux without GUI on a machine beside
me I could start the process.

Has anyone run Minix3 on Atom by any chance?

[Ben Chavez]

So yeah the whole purpose of Minix from the beginning was the study of the
Operating System in an academic level. No to be used for your work load
(Perhaps you could with some limits) there are other Operating systems that
people has invested hours and hours of works so you can throw anything to it
without worries of breaking it.
You should look at FreeBSD (distant relative to MINIX) , If you are already
with Linux you should look at Slackware or Arch If these are too main
stream for your like you can take a look at OpenIndiana too.

Good luck to you

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[u-l...@aetey.se]

Hi Patrick,

On Sun, Jul 07, 2013 at 05:13:44PM -0700, Patrick wrote:
> I can't believe this is happening but I am actually truly
> saddened by my computer situation right now.

> I have been using Linux as my primary desktop for 9 years now. The first 7
> years or so seemed so great but since the gnome3 thing, things just seem to
> be going downhill.

While I appreciate certain new possibilities of the newer systems
(not that much for the GUIs but e.g. filesystems with data checksumming),
I share your frustration.

> I would really like to give Minix3 a go on hardware

I happened to try Minix3 on a surplus Toshiba Satellite 2450-S402
and to my surprise most of its hardware was supported, at least the
disk, the ethernet network interface, x11 and usb storage.
This computer is hardly available in the stores nowadays
but you may possibly encounter it on the second hand market.

Software variety/availability for Minix is though still limited.

As for a different approach to get a usable computer, you can actually
run certain Linux distros without the "greatest and biggest" desktop
environments, by manually choosing packages for e.g. icewm as a window
manager. This would give you a reasonably convenient milieu, though
without graphical file or desktop icon management.

Good luck,
Rune

[James T. Sprinkle]

Hi Patrick!  I typically set up any computer that I am running Minix3 on to dual boot with Linux.  This allows me to have a GUI based web browser when I need one, which really helps if you get stuck and need to search the web for a fix.  Also, you can mount the Minix3 filesystems under Linux to move files around if you like.  Plus, you can use the Linux partition to backup your Minix files/filesystems to an external device, such as a USB drive/stick using tar or another backup tool. 

The trick is to get a combination that is supported.  If you are looking at a desktop, IDE or SATA in Legacy mode works fine for hard drive.  I have only ever had problems with the Ethernet adapters and you can usually pick up a used card that is supported from a PC Recycler or Ebay pretty cheap.  Laptops are a little more difficult, unless you can find one with a supported ethernet adapter built in.

You could do a test run on your current machine by booting the Minix3 CD and typing netconf after you login.  That should tell you whether you have a supported ethernet card or not.

If you have some positive results, go for re-install #51+ and go dual boot!

[Patrick Mc(avery]

> Hi Patrick! I typically set up any computer that I am running Minix3 on
> to dual boot with Linux. This allows me to have a GUI based web browser
> when I need one, which really helps if you get stuck and need to search
> the web for a fix. Also, you can mount the Minix3 filesystems under
> Linux to move files around if you like. Plus, you can use the Linux
> partition to backup your Minix files/filesystems to an external device,
> such as a USB drive/stick using tar or another backup tool.
>
> The trick is to get a combination that is supported. If you are looking
> at a desktop, IDE or SATA in Legacy mode works fine for hard drive. I
> have only ever had problems with the Ethernet adapters and you can
> usually pick up a used card that is supported from a PC Recycler or Ebay
> pretty cheap. Laptops are a little more difficult, unless you can find
> one with a supported ethernet adapter built in.
>
> You could do a test run on your current machine by booting the Minix3 CD
> and typing netconf after you login. That should tell you whether you
> have a supported ethernet card or not.
>
> If you have some positive results, go for re-install #51+ and go dual boot!
>

Hi James

What a great set of suggestions.

I tried to boot Minix on two 64 bit multicore machines just now. It
booted on one but netconf didn't find the networking hardware.

I have some old P2s and P3s, I will try the same with them later.

I think that it is a terrific idea about dual booting Linux and Minix.
It will take me some time to wean myself off Linux. Even as a
development box only, I use GVim a lot more then vim and it will take
some time to adjust.

Have a great day-Patrick

[Roc Vallès]

Grab a Beaglebone. Solved.

And it's cheap, on top of it.

[Patrick Mc(avery]

On 7/15/2013 8:05 PM, Roc Vall�s wrote:
> Grab a Beaglebone. Solved.
>
> And it's cheap, on top of it.
>

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Hi Roc

Minix on Beaglebone would be great. I am a bit worried about the I/O
support though. Isn't Minix3's ARM support at a very early stage? There
is no USB, SD right? Surely there is no CAN support and LCD touch screen
too no?

Thanks for posting-Patrick

[Thomas Cort]

> Minix on Beaglebone would be great. I am a bit worried about the I/O support
> though. Isn't Minix3's ARM support at a very early stage? There is no USB,
> SD right? Surely there is no CAN support and LCD touch screen too no?

You are correct, Minix on ARM is still at a somewhat early stage. You
can do console over serial, and the SD card works. You can log in and
run pretty much all of the base system commands. However, there is
still some hardware support that needs to be developed. For example,
there is no network driver yet, though I think I saw someone in the
#minix-dev irc channel talking about working on it. Another issue to
consider is that pkgsrc hasn't been bootstrapped on Minix/arm yet, so
there are no binary packages for third party applications like vim,
git, clang, etc. There's lots of working being done on the arm port,
but it's still got a ways to go.

Thomas

[Roc Vallès]

Regardless, as the ARM port seems to be using this board, you can count it will (eventually) have great support... and the investment (~$70) isn't huge.

Offtopic: About your comments on Linux desktops... take into consideration that minix3 will be running (once it matures, now it's still a very small subset and with major issues... firefox doesn't work, chromium doesn't work either...) the same desktop environments Linux does (and the other way around). I suggest you try running Archlinux with KDE or, if you're into lightweight desktops, just xfce4 or icewm. Like how I'm running KDE on archlinuxarm very successfully on a low-spec machine (Cubieboard).