GRIN lens V4

[Ali Mohebi]

Hi Folks- Do you have a preferred vendor for GRIN lenses compatible with V4? Any link to an online store you can share? Or shall I just contact Inscopix and ask for a quote?

Cheers,

Ali

[Kenneth S Dyson]

We have had reasonable success with https://www.gofoton.com/

And have them coated at https://vsiparylene.com/
for better biocompatibility.

[Ali Mohebi]

Thanks Ken. I am totally new here, so apologies for the noob Qs. 

1. Is that compatible with V4? I remember hearing from someone that gofoton lenses are not.

2. What kind of coating? Is that a routine practice? 

Cheers,

Ali

[Kenneth Dyson]

No problem Ali.

We have been using the following Go!Foton lenses for imaging hypocampus CA1 with the V4 UCLA Miniscope:

CLHS050GFT077 (0.5 mm diameter)

CLHN100GFT001 (1.0 mm diameter)

The coating is parylene at a thickness of 7.1uM - 7.6 uM.  The coating method and rational is explained here:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12264-019-00356-x

Hope this helps.

And welcome to the community!

Ken

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[Ali Mohebi]

Just to be clear, so you buy them from gofoton and send them to this other company for coating? Do they accept small numbers?

So the difference between doing it this way and going to Inscopix is the cost or better biocompatibility? How about the turn-around time? 

Cheers,

Ali

[Ali Mohebi]

If you order your GRIN lens from Inscopix, which part# do you use? I see a number of items on their website and not quite sure which one to choose... 

[Simon Fisher]

Hi Ali

For the Inscopix question - you can order the ProView lenses (that just means they have a solid plastic ‘pedestal’ at the top of them, that makes it easier to implant and cement, to protect with something like Kwik-sil, and integrate with the Inscopix baseplates.). Of course in this case you won’t be using Inscopix baseplates, but the other advantages apply. They're easier to mount specifically when used with the outrageously priced Inscopix ProView implant kit, which nicely holds the lens, and doesn’t get in the way when implanting/cementing. I’ve found the V4 baseplates/scope play nicely with ProView lenses, but the lens is recessed below the top of the pedestal, and the V4 baseplate/scope needs to closer to the lens/pedestal than my recollection of using Inscopix scopes. 

You can also get the ’naked’ lenses from Inscopix without the ProView pedestal thing. You just need to come up with a way of holding the lens for implant (other threads on here have discussed this I think), and then building up a pedestal with cement. Bit tricker but I imagine lots of people do this. The ’naked’ lenses are a little cheaper.

Then there are prism lens, which may apply to your use case; and they also sell baseplate-integrated and virus-coated lenses which aren’t likely going to work for you (as they include the incompatible baseplate)

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/miniscope/de968e81-3563-41a9-b232-413da5896eb5n%40googlegroups.com.

[Ali Mohebi]

Thanks Simon. So if I get it correctly, you are suggesting that the pedestal is compatible with V4 baseplates, but you just have to adjust your V4 lens... Good to know. Cheers-A

[demo...@gmail.com]

Hi Everyone - 

I just wanted to follow up on the gofoton lens coating topic discussed here.  I emailed Walter Boyles at gofoton who told me that their CLH lenses (which are the ones used for implantable relay lenses) are coated with silicon dioxide as a barrier to prevent material from flowing into or out of the lens.  Other lenses that they make (ILW and ILH) are not coated and aren't necessarily biocompatible, as described in the paper.

If you order from them, there should be a "S" on the part number which indicates silicon dioxide coating, and it should be described in the part sheet.

- David

[Ali Mohebi]

Hi David,

     So if I understand correctly, the CHL lenses come with silicon dioxide coating (which is different from Parylene-C coating mentioned in the paper) but is still biocompatible and can be used for long-term in vivo recordings?

Cheers,

Ali

[demo...@gmail.com]

Hi Ali - 

That is my understanding based on the email from Walter (which I've appended below with his permission).  

I don't know enough about the materials to be able to say if silicon dioxide is as effective as parylene-C, but this is enough assurance for me to proceed in implanting the lenses we got from them and seeing what happens.  Definitely happy to hear other opinions.  We also have some Inscopix lenses we're implanting, and can do some subjective comparisons, once we get everything implanted (which will be a little while).

I think the key is that if you order Go!Foton relay lenses to implant, make sure they are "S" labelled or otherwise indicate silicon dioxide coating.  Whether or not to parylene-c coat on top of that is unclear to me.

The fibronectin (from the paper) would be nice to implement too, but that seems to be an in-house solution.  I don't think the details were described in the paper, but it might be worth thinking about more down the line.

- David

From Walter's email (referring to two different types of lenses we purchased):

"The GFT047 has an “S” in it which stands for silicon dioxide coating.  This is a barrier to prevent material from flowing into or out of the lens.

The other lens is N uncoated.  This is because it is an objective lens and not implanted.

When people started using our lenses for neuroscience, they started using the ILWs.    Those lenses are still not coated routinely.  When we came out with the CLH lens we added a coating although it’s possible to purchase some relays without the facet coating if you want that.  Generally, we still will coat the sides because it’s easier to coat all the rods at once.

The reason why we are not coating ILWs and ILHs is  because they are mostly not used for neuroscience and are used in applications like endoscopes, OCT, etc. where the lens does not touch the tissue directly."

[Ali Mohebi]

Thanks for sharing David. I think I will go ahead and order parts from both Inscopix and Go!Foton and compare them. Will report back if something useful comes out of the comparison...

Cheers,

Ali

[Евгений Герасимов]

Good time of day!
Could you, please, share an ID or give a link to GRIN lenses from Go!Foton for hyppocampus CA1 imaging by Miniscope v4. 

We have just changed V3 to V4 and found, that objective GRIN lenses do not work with that version of Miniscope. 

It will help us a lot.
Looking forward to hear from you soon!

Best wishes, Evgenii!

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