Call for experiences

[Ted Lilley]

Since more people than ever are just starting with Minimak, I'm putting out this call for you to share your experiences as a beginner with the layout.

I'm sure future users will be interested in your experiences and it will help people make more informed decisions, rather than relying simply on what I've written on the site.

I think things people might be interested in the answers to questions like:

• What interested you in an alternative layout in the first place?
• Have you tried others?
• How hard was it to get the software/keybindings to work?
• How are you approaching learning?
• Three-step, two-step or just going straight to the full layout?
• Working with it every day, just in the evenings or day-on/day-off?
• How long is it taking you to get up to speed?
• How hard is it switching to QWERTY and back?
• Does it feel like an improvement and are you likely to stick with it?
• Who would you recommend it to, if anyone?

Thanks for your help.

Ted

[Trevor Madge]

Hi,

I came across Minimak via CodingHorror's tweet: https://twitter.com/codinghorror/status/260440494683865088

I installed the Portable Keyboard Layout on Oct. 26th and really started using Minimak4 on Monday, Oct. 29th.

I use http://www.keyhero.com/ for my testing. And, I've been starting every day with 5 or so typing tests to get my brain & fingers into the Minimak mode.

My plan is to get back up to 60 WPM before switching to Minimak8.  And, so far, my biggest problem is getting used to the new 'K'... probably because it's used so little that I haven't had much practice with it.

Here are some answers to the questions you posted:

• What interested you in an alternative layout in the first place?

• I liked the idea of gradually introducing new keys.  This was the biggest thing keeping me from trying Colemak or Dvorak.
• Have you tried others?
• No

• How hard was it to get the software/keybindings to work?

• Really, really easy

• How are you approaching learning?

• Starting with Minimak4.
• Using it everyday.
• Plan is to get back to my QWERTY speed before moving to Minimak8

• How hard is it switching to QWERTY and back?

• My QWERTY typing speed has suffered but only by about 5 WPM

• Does it feel like an improvement and are you likely to stick with it?

• It feels smoother to type.  I didn't notice much at first but now going back to QWERTY my fingers feel like they fly all over the place.

Timeline:

Oct. 29th - Started Minimak4

QWERTY: 60 WPM

Minimak4: 40 WPM

Nov. 5th

QWERTY: 55 WPM

Minimak4: 50 WPM

[Ted Lilley]

Hey Trevor,

Thanks for the feedback.  I appreciate that you took the time to share that.

I think you're correct about K.  I found it to be the hardest key for me to adjust to as well.  It's likely that it's because it's so little used, as you observed.

Glad to see your QWERTY isn't suffering much and that you're able to use it every day.

I'll be interested to see which you think was harder to learn, the first or second four.

Cheers,

Ted

[Ted Lilley]

I was thinking about this, and you might benefit from a typing tutor that emphasizes K.  Perhaps every once in a while would help.

The type-fu.com site has "levels" that start you off on a subset of keys and add from there.  Level 1 uses only words that can be made from 9 chosen characters, of which K is one.

I'd like to see one that emphasizes the 4, (E, T, K and D), but type-fu's levels aren't oriented toward that.  You have to get up to level 5 (words from 17 characters) before you get T in there, and that's pretty important.

Perhaps there's another typing tutor that could be better tuned to Minimak's levels.  I'll look into it.

On Monday, November 5, 2012 11:23:48 AM UTC-5, Trevor Madge wrote:

[Trevor Madge]

I went to type-fu.com but didn't stay very long because with T being at level 5 I figured I'd learn just as well typing real sentences at keyhero.com.

I just took another look at type-fu.com and I could switch the keyboard layout to either Colemak or Dvorak and E, T, and D are in level 1.  K doesn't come up until level 7 but I could switch back to QWERTY to practice that.

It would still be nice to have all in the same level.

--
 
 

[Ted Lilley]

I can't seem to find exactly what I'm looking for.  Amphetype lets you create lessons from word lists, but after trying the lessons I didn't like them.  None of the other tutors I found which support any kind of customization do a good job.

I made a word list that you might find useful though.  It's at https://raw.github.com/lilleyt/minimak/master/words/minimak-4.txt, it's for practicing the 4-key layout.  If you find a typing tutor that can make good use of it, let me know.

[Ted Lilley]

This one has a custom entry system, although I wish it had randomization:

http://www.speedtypingonline.com/typing-test

[Ted Lilley]

I found a tutor that generates reasonable lessons from my word lists.  It's called TIPP10.  http://www.tipp10.com/en/

You can find instructions on how to add the word lists to its lessons here: https://raw.github.com/lilleyt/minimak/master/words/README.md

On Tuesday, November 6, 2012 12:34:07 AM UTC-5, Ted Lilley wrote:

[Rob Neff]

My answers:

• What interested you in an alternative layout in the first place?

As an engineer, I'm always interested in efficiency, and not necessarily concerned with the status quo or what others think of me.  That's also why I drive a Prius. 

• Have you tried others?

No.  I'd thought about Dvorak, but it seemed like a pretty steep learning curve. I didn't even know other options existed until installing the latest Mac OS, and it had an option for Colemak, which led me to start asking more questions. 

• How hard was it to get the software/keybindings to work?

Not hard at all. I installed it on Mac OS X - 10.6 and 10.9, and on Windows 7 at work.

• How are you approaching learning?
• Three-step, two-step or just going straight to the full layout?

The two-step.  I'm on Minimak-4, and getting a little edgy now, ready to move to Minimak-8, which is where I'll probably stop.  Minimak-12 switches the P and ; and as a programmer, I use the ; quite a bit. 

• Working with it every day, just in the evenings or day-on/day-off?

I started in evenings, then installed it at work too, and use it there until I get tired and go back to Qwerty for a while.  I thought I'd have to have it full-time on one computer and just associate that layout with that keyboard, but I find I can move back and forth fairly well.  My speed takes a hit though until I've been using it for a while (20 minutes or more).

• How long is it taking you to get up to speed?

I measured my qwerty speed on hi-games.net before I started and I was getting 65-70 wpm.  (I thought I was a fast typist, but seeing what other people can do cleared me of that misconception!).  After a half hour of playing around with Minimak-4, I was doing 30 wpm.  Now, after two weeks, I'm doing 45 wpm (high of 47 today).  I haven't done any intensive or specialized training.  Just normal activities, which includes playing a bit of bitwordy - a boggle-like game on Facebook, where typing speed and being able to type without thinking too hard about it matters.

• How hard is it switching to QWERTY and back?

That was a nice surprise.  I do make a few mistakes in qwerty, so I need to watch what I type a bit more, but I've been able to keep my typing speed about 65 wpm in qwerty mode, while my minimak speed slowly increases.    

• Does it feel like an improvement and are you likely to stick with it?

Yes.  Sometimes I get frustrated with it, and then I just go back to qwerty for a while, but never for long.

• Who would you recommend it to, if anyone?

Already recommended it to my nephew.  I really like the fact that it minimizes changes to the keyboard, and it doesn't affect ctrl-Z,X,C and V shortcuts.  I'm not so sure about having I and E on the same finger though.  For me, I haven't noticed any difference between moving a key between fingers or between rows on the same finger (E was easier to learn than D, maybe because of how often it's used).  I'll be able to test that out more on Minimak-8 (just moves keys on the same finger).

[Stefan]

Hey Ted,

I just started to learn and use the minimak-8 layout on my ergodox. For learning I use the TIPP10 trainer that you suggested in your blog. Since there was no suitable set of lessons available to START touch typing with a minimak, I made some lists of words for the beginning. In detail I started with "word lists" from:
- http://rey.madot.net/ergodox/astfneo_words.txt
- http://rey.madot.net/ergodox/diru_words.txt
- http://rey.madot.net/ergodox/wglh_words.txt
- http://rey.madot.net/ergodox/qkpz_words.txt
- http://rey.madot.net/ergodox/vbjm_words.txt
- http://rey.madot.net/ergodox/yxc_words.txt
(in this order) and then switched to the standard lessons on QWERTY (omitting the basic lessons up to the same level of letters) in TIPP10.

So far this works good for me. Feel free to use and distribute the lists if you feel this could be useful to other. The words stemmed from the list of most used words in UK.

Best
Stefan

[Rob Neff]

Update, after a few more months, 3.5 months in total now.  I'm still with it, although I modified things a bit.  The L-O switch was giving me problems, so I took it out for a couple reasons:

1) looking at the key-frequency list, it isn't a huge difference, like N-J is.

2) looking at my fingers on the board, my right-hand ring finger is curled down and just hitting the top of the L as it is, and it's basically no trouble to go up to the O.

Given those considerations, and the premise that we're trying to make as few changes as possible, to preserve Qwerty-compatibility, I modified the set up files to add a minimak-6 option (not the same as the other minimak-6, which is apparently a 1/2 way point to minimak-12, and flips the F-R keys instead... this is my final step, and I really wanted the N-J swap, so I called my version "Minimak-6 JN").

Sidebar: Initially I thought there was only Qwerty and Dvorak and those were the only two options that existed.  Then I ran into Colemak, and further research led to Minimak and others, and after installing it, I saw how you can change any key you want on both PC and Mac, so that gave me the freedom to go out on my own keyboard specialization.  I might be the only one ever using this particular layout, but that's okay.  I'll set it up on my computers and it'll work for me.  I expect future operating systems will always allow these changes, if not making them even easier to do.

So after the brief flirtation with Minimak-8, I'm now comfortable using Minimak-6 JN.  Initially my QWERTY rate was 65-70 wpm.  I'm not using QWERTY much anymore, so it takes a good day of adoption to get back into it, but I can still hit 60-65 once I do that, otherwise I'm in low 50's.  My Minimak time is generally 50-55.  I figure it took me decades to get to that QWERTY level, so I'm not worried that Minimak is still slower.  Even though I'm at a computer all day, I sit and think, or read, more than I type, so 50 wpm does not hamper my job at all. Meanwhile it just feels more comfortable, and it was fairly easy to set up all the computers that I use, so I intend to keep with it full-time.  Even though I can still go faster on Qwerty, it just doesn't feel as good anymore.  I use the PKL program at work - easy to put it back to normal mode if somebody else needs to do something on my computer.  At home with the Macs there's the flag icon on the menu bar, so that's easy to change too.  I haven't tried to change the iPad, I don't think that's possible, but that doesn't have touch typing anyway.  It hasn't bothered me.

[Ted Lilley]

Hey Rob,

That's some really great feedback.  Thank you for sharing your experience.

I'm a big fan of finding what works for you.  I made the same kind of exploration of different layouts like you mentioned, and found what worked for me and what didn't, hence Minimak.

In my own time with Minimak, it's interesting to see what's easy and what's still a bit difficult.  I do both QWERTY and Minimak about 50-50 since my chromebook is QWERTY-only.  The L-O switch still is a bit tricky I'll say, but for some reason I have the most problem with D being above it's QWERTY spot.  While it's really important to put T in D's old spot, I wonder if the "same-finger memory" I tout on the website isn't more of a drawback.  It honestly did speed up my recovering from errors, at least I believe it did compared to a layout like Colemak, but for the long-term I wonder if it ends up slowing you down once you've gotten past the initial stage of learning.

I'm about 65wpm with both QWERTY and Minimak(-12) now, and definitely slightly slower than I was when I typed QWERTY alone (about 75wpm).  So there's a bilingual tax as far as I can tell, but it's not bad.  That's at about a year and a half.

I like this idea of a minimak-6 jn.  If I were to do a 6-key layout meant as a stopping point, that would definitely be the one I'd do.  I agree with your logic behind it.  At the point I revisit the design, I may incorporate it.  I'm also a bit unhappy with the complexity of the multi-stage approach.  Who knows, maybe I'll consolidate down to a single format, in which case 6 would be a contender.  I only chose 8 because I wanted equal-number steps on the way to twelve.

Cheers.

[Ted Lilley]

That's awesome!  I'll look into it.

[Ted Lilley]

Just want to let you know I'm giving your variation a try.  I've gotten the setup changed on a number of my machines.  We'll see how the experiment goes.  I'm big on dog-fooding changes for a good while before thinking about incorporating them in any way.

Cheers.

[Rob Neff]

Thanks for the support.  I'm glad I found this site.

I can't imagine learning multiple layouts like you do.  Two is enough for me :)

[321tryagain]

I am not sure how I discovered minimak, presumably through thorough googling. I used to use QWERTY and typed at about 44wpm while looking at the keyboard about 50% of the time. I was interested in learning to touch type but I was frustrated by the extreme inefficiency of things like having ; on the home row. I tried COLEMAK and loved using capslock as backspace but hated how the S key had been moved left one position.

 I started using 12 key minimak around 25th April 2014. After 2 weeks of pushing myself to use it at home in the evenings (2-4h per night) I started using it at work when time was not crucial. Within about a month of starting I used it a vast majority of the time. Within about 2 months (July 1st) I was preferentially using it for everything and had reached my old typing speed. it is now August 1st and I type at about 52wpm with less errors, better posture and less thought. I no longer use QWERTY where possible but can type on it while looking at the keyboard (as before) if necessary. 

The software for key binding is a dream in windows. I love it. Linux was harder but still easy. In both cases I wanted to remap capslock to backspace and this caused a headache in windows which I solved* and a workaround in linux which I have to trigger on login. I consider capslock as backspace essential to touchtyping. I don't know how anyone on any keyboard lives without it. 

100% it is an improvement and I am SO glad I switched. I would recommend it to anyone who will listen, but more likely only to those with a bit of a geeky streak who I think will stick at it.

@Ted - if you would consider hosting a version of PKL with capslock remapped then I would love to send a few mBTC your way :)

* The line for the layout.ini in pkl is here:

CapsLock = OEM_1 0 ={backspace} *{backspace} ={backspace} ={backspace} ={backspace} ; Caps Lock

[Ngoc Nguyen]

Hi,

I hope that I'm not too late for this. :-D

On Friday, October 26, 2012 at 4:09:12 AM UTC+9, Ted Lilley wrote:

Since more people than ever are just starting with Minimak, I'm putting out this call for you to share your experiences as a beginner with the layout.

I'm sure future users will be interested in your experiences and it will help people make more informed decisions, rather than relying simply on what I've written on the site.

I think things people might be interested in the answers to questions like:

• What interested you in an alternative layout in the first place?

Because I want to type faster with ease. Also because of RSI.

• Have you tried others?

I tried both Dvorak and Colemak. I don't like Dvorak because of its heavy pinky usage. I used Colemak and I could type at about 100WPM, which is faster than Qwerty but it's a pain to type in Vietnamese because of J is too far away. 

• How hard was it to get the software/keybindings to work?

Just some simple reconfigure. I also don't remap Vim.

• How are you approaching learning?
• Three-step, two-step or just going straight to the full layout?
• Working with it every day, just in the evenings or day-on/day-off?

 I just work with it whole day with 3 steps and I'm at step 1 now.

• How long is it taking you to get up to speed?

Dunno because I just tried it for several days and my speed now is 50WPM. My speed with Qwerty is about 90WPM.

• How hard is it switching to QWERTY and back?

 Kinda easy for now.

• Does it feel like an improvement and are you likely to stick with it?

Already feel improvement with just step 1 so I'll keep using it. 

• Who would you recommend it to, if anyone?

My friends who are using Dvorak and Colemak. 

Thanks for your help.

Ted

 Thank you for creating this great layout and sharing it.

Ngoc

[Ted Lilley]

Not too late, thanks for the feedback!

Glad you're enjoying the layout.  Thanks for the specific answers.

Let me know if you have any trouble with it.

Ted