a slave to society

[kdephil]

I want to start off saying I am new here at minds eye. I don't have a
title nor do i desire one,
(philosopher ,student, wannabe) it all doesn't matter.

I remember when I was younger I wanted to fit in with the kids at
school.
I tried the baggy pants and and using curse words like everyone else
was doing at middle school,
but it never stick (I was socially retarded for that sort of thing).
Now that i have gotten wiser I think this
things were foolish now.

so my questions are:
1) The way that society(except the family) programs a human, is it a
type of brain washing ?

ex. Mostly in the U.S some woman will try and get a boob job and
thinks its ok, while most woman from east
Asia will think the idea is disgusting.

(sorry for any grammar errors)

[Don Johnson]

Sure it's brain washing. 

As to boob jobs I think it's quality that matters.  We have the best plastic surgeons here in the USA. 

dj

[iam deheretic]

and the most expensive ones too.. as for the best..  Maybe not..
Allan

--
(    
 )    
I_D Allan

Be Paranoid.
God is always building a better idiot!!!

[vamadevananda]

To tell you what I think : I find such concerns and priorities as
symptoms of one getting more and more unreal and vain !

[pol.science kid]

Welcome Kdephil..and good for you youre not using a title.. although we call them nicknames..and they are not pretensions or anything... i use it coz that is the name i would give to myself...and since we didnt get to decide our names , this is one place we can take any name for us... Plus i agree with you on the fact that High shool can be really tough...the adults just dont get it;-)..of course thinking back  gives us perspective..and dude..your question is rhetoric i guess.. since no individual grows in isolation it is a kind of brainwashing..some succumb to it some grow in spite of it(the society says"these are the values..inculcate them.and you either do or make your own and seek to destroy the old ones )..and dont exclude family.. famillies are the primary unit of the 'brainwashing'.. about the boob job thing..it can be called the current generations idea of  what looks good(thogh not all would agree) and the fashion mag culture which makes everyone hate their bodies...and dude dont generalise..i know plenty of asian women who would get a boob job if they had the money...but most asian women are well endowed in that area i would say;-D.. BTW..wat does Kdephil stand for if it aint a 'title'.. 

[Fahad Fateh]

so my questions are:
1) The way that society(except the family) programs a human, is it a
type of brain washing ?

Partly brain washing(they WILL try their best) and partly its ignorance at the part of the victim. 

The basic emotion that runs such brain washing schools, is fear. They are afraid of being wrong and would love to see if others agree with them and most of the time they will be forcing their believes/likes on to others in haste of getting away from finding out that they are wrong.

And again fear in case of the victim who is mostly ignorant and needs to learn(natural). What if they do some thing wrong, so they ask and ask and ask rather than be confident, observe and DISCUSS. My emphasis is on discussion because no one will ever be perfectly/completely wiser and no one is.

Fahad.

[pol.science kid]

what are youre ferring to?not boobjobs for sure

[vamadevananda]

In fact, I was ... ! Boobs, big or small, are great ... not because
how they look, but because I know they'd secure me when I was a babe.
That is what I am, while relating to it, when I see or think of boobs.

On May 31, 6:17 pm, "pol.science kid" <r.freeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> what are youre ferring to?not boobjobs for sure
>

[Slip Disc]

I reject the notion that society "programs" people. The example
presented, which also extends into other areas of physical
augmentation, does not stand true for the entire country. What you
hear and see is not representative of the nation as a whole. There
are many Americans who find these types of augmentation and
embellishments such as piercing a distasteful. American society
offers a great many paths to follow and it is up to the individual to
decide what course to follow. No one forced you to wear baggy clothes
and use curse words, you simply were weak at the time and not mature
enough to understand your personal freedoms, you made the "choice" and
may indicate your personality as being one of a follower and not a
leader. I would think that some Asian women have practices that are
deemed to be disgusting in other countries, in fact there are many
different customs in the world that are unacceptable in many other
countries.
Breast implant practice is most likely less that 3% of the female
population. I wouldn't perceive this to be something that we can
label as stereotypical of a country.

[kdephil]

>No one forced you to wear baggy clothes and use curse words

You are right no one forced me to do these things, it was something
that I had to do.
It seem to be a controlled response, like an emotion.

>Breast implant practice is most likely less that 3% of the female population.

well i live in ny and it seems much higher

[kdephil]

I don't think a person that was home school and was taught about logic
by a philosopher(or other) would be brainwashing.
That is why I didn't say all family/society.

[ornamentalmind]

Breast augmentation:
http://www.humanticsfoundation.com/epidemic.htm

another view:
http://www.implantinfo.com/

more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breast_implant

“According to American Society for Aesthetic Plastic Surgery (ASAPS)
statistics, nearly 250,000 breast augmentation procedures were
performed last year, an increase of 147 percent since 1997. These
figures may include reconstruction surgeries as well.” -
http://www.thebreastsite.com/breast-surgery/breast-augmentation-statistics.aspx

I’ve heard the entire gambit of statistics. Overall, except for
psychiatric and/or surgical replacement, I’m rather opposed. Of
course, it isn’t my decision anyway.

[pol.science kid]

well,dude...exceptions are everywhere...

On 5/31/10, kdephil <kde...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[kdephil]

The posting limit for new members is a problem for me,
If the administrators are seeing this, please put me in the free to
post without limits
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I pick breast implants out of a list of things that shouldn't be.

another one is teen pregnancies, it has increase.
Question to older generation 40 and above,
have you heard of a female getting pregnant at an early age when you
was at school ?
and would it be better if you home school your kids?

[iam deheretic]

I am in the group of 60 and above and yes girls did get pregnant ..  matter of fact crossing over the pass on the out dide the town was a house of ill repute (whore house for the younger generation..)  when they closed it down the high school girls got pregnant,, so they pretty much ignored it   to protect the high school girls from the college boys..
LOL  Personally I never used it but more than one time I drove friend over to see the ladies.
Allan

[iam deheretic]

if you are interested  the cost was $25.oo  at took a little over 2 gallons of benzine to get there and back and condoms were required,,  (Pre- Aids)
Allan

[rigsy03]

I only heard of one girl who was chased around the dining room by her
father with a butcher knife when he found out and she was quickly
married. Our generation was very strict and the boys abided by the
rules- there were good girls and bad girls, which has changed since
the pill and lax standards of all behaviors.//I think boob jobs are
for boobs unless it is restoration after a mastectomy. What is the
glory in lugging giant jugs around? I hate bras to begin with and
happy the way I am. Once, to fill out a scooped neckline I borrowed my
mother's falsies and felt so weird dancing close that I dumped them in
the toilet tank at the dance. The plumber got an eyeful, I'm sure!

On Jun 1, 1:16 am, iam deheretic <dehere...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am in the group of 60 and above and yes girls did get pregnant ..  matter
> of fact crossing over the pass on the out dide the town was a house of ill
> repute (whore house for the younger generation..)  when they closed it down
> the high school girls got pregnant,, so they pretty much ignored it   to
> protect the high school girls from the college boys..
> LOL  Personally I never used it but more than one time I drove friend over
> to see the ladies.
> Allan
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 10:54 PM, kdephil <kdep...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > The posting limit for new members is a problem for me,
> > If the administrators are seeing this, please put me  in the free to
> > post without limits
>

> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­---------------------------------------------------

> > I pick breast implants out of a list of things that shouldn't be.
>
> > another one is teen pregnancies, it has increase.
> > Question to older generation 40 and above,
> > have you heard of  a female getting pregnant at an early age  when you
> > was at school ?
> > and would it be better if you home school your kids?
>
> --
> (
>  )
> I_D Allan
>
> Be Paranoid.

> God is always building a better idiot!!!- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[l...@rdfmedia.com]

We are all to a larger or lesser degree brainwashed, including the
home taught in your example.

I brainwash my own kids on a dayly basis, as does every other
perant.

[l...@rdfmedia.com]

Meh is this beacuse more young people are getting pregnant or is it
because, there are more people in the world now?

On 31 May, 21:54, kdephil <kdep...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The posting limit for new members is a problem for me,
> If the administrators are seeing this, please put me  in the free to
> post without limits

> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­---------------------------------------------------

[Don Johnson]

On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 4:42 AM, leerev...@googlemail.com <l...@rdfmedia.com> wrote:

Meh is this beacuse more young people are getting pregnant or is it
because, there are more people in the world now?

Both?

dj
 

[pol.science kid]

ok this is like a very paranoid discussion going on..about schoolkids..and collegeones..fine many get pregnant..but there are also those who dont .. and there are many who practice abstinence..and home schooled ones are no better protected.. in fact exposure helps to build a strong charachter and gives them better judgement...

[rigsy03]

In NY it can run into the thousands per day for a decent call girl. At
one point I thought of converting a breast pump into a male
eljaculator but gave up.//Since sex is free in marriage, what does
that say about quality? :-)

On Jun 1, 1:20 am, iam deheretic <dehere...@gmail.com> wrote:
> if you are interested  the cost was $25.oo  at took a little over 2 gallons
> of benzine to get there and back and condoms were required,,  (Pre- Aids)
> Allan
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 8:16 AM, iam deheretic <dehere...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I am in the group of 60 and above and yes girls did get pregnant ..  matter
> > of fact crossing over the pass on the out dide the town was a house of ill
> > repute (whore house for the younger generation..)  when they closed it down
> > the high school girls got pregnant,, so they pretty much ignored it   to
> > protect the high school girls from the college boys..
> > LOL  Personally I never used it but more than one time I drove friend over
> > to see the ladies.
> > Allan
>

> > On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 10:54 PM, kdephil <kdep...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> The posting limit for new members is a problem for me,
> >> If the administrators are seeing this, please put me  in the free to
> >> post without limits
>

> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­---------------------------------------------------

> >> I pick breast implants out of a list of things that shouldn't be.
>
> >> another one is teen pregnancies, it has increase.
> >> Question to older generation 40 and above,
> >> have you heard of  a female getting pregnant at an early age  when you
> >> was at school ?
> >> and would it be better if you home school your kids?
>
> > --
> > (
> >  )
> > I_D Allan
>
> > Be Paranoid.
> > God is always building a better idiot!!!
>
> --
> (
>  )
> I_D Allan
>
> Be Paranoid.

[ornamentalmind]

You get what you pay for? ;-)

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[ornamentalmind]

Being of comperable vintage as rigsy...perhaps she was living in a
convent! ;-)

Yes, girls (and boys) had reputations (good/bad). Seldom did this
affect the lust and hormones involved.

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[kdephil]

I don't care about breast size , but if a women has fake big boob its
unattractive to me.

>.//I think boob jobs are
>for boobs unless it is restoration after a mastectomy.

iam excluding that of course.

I want to change the topic to just the public schools, because most of
my problems came from it.
When I was at middle school the boys in my class talked about how they
done it (sex) .They ask me
have you done it, to fit in and not get laughed at I said yes.
I know now that some didn't mean it ;like me they wanted to fit in,
but i think some really meant it.
Some of them wanted to prove it... well looks like kids(13 to 15)
wanted to do everything to fit in.

I think they had they same thing shown on the bill cosby show once.

[DarkwaterBlight]

I think the quality may be in the convienience though I wouldn't know
from personal experience. It's not that I never had a pro just never
paid one!LOL! Dated a cocktail waitress for a while and came to find
out that her and a few of her bisexual friends had a little side biz.
Fake boobs are fine but I am preferential to real ones. I do agree
that the only circumstance that should be is reconstruction. To each
their own... As to the questions about brainwashing... Well I think
that term is really not the one to describe the learning process that
is being reffered to. Also I agree with slip that we have chioces and
experiences to guide us. When one wishes to you may always your mind.
It's an internal process and the external world depends upon what's
inside. Create your own reality and all that or choose your own
dillusions whatever the case may be...

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Slip Disc]

Something you had to do? So then its go with the flow but then you
say it was a "controlled" response which negates your premise of brain
washing by society. Some may be right in stating that we are all
brainwashed to some degree but I would more aptly put it as being
indoctrinated to the specific norms established within the environment
one resides in. We are all to a high degree a product of our
environment, not only familial and societal but also culturally.
Establishing our own identity may be easier for some and nearly
impossible for others depending on the country and region. We all
know that Iranian and Egyptian women have their identities
prearranged.

Well you live in NY and so you want to judge the US based on what you
perceive in NY. I suggest you look outside of the box when forming
opinions.

[kdephil]

> Something you had to do? So then its go with the flow but then you
> say it was a "controlled" response which negates your premise of brain

I'm sorry for that, after my reply i notice i contradict myself .I
cant change my post ,and there were so many great
opinions for me to remember to repost my correction.

> Well you live in NY and so you want to judge the US based on what you
> perceive in NY. I suggest you look outside of the box when forming
> opinions.

Believe me, I did.
There is no society that represent the US , because it has many
different ones and it is not in on place.
I thought if I said state NY I will be leaving out Chicago and New
jersey and Texas....

The boob thing was something i chose out of a list things
plastic surgery
the skinny look
butt implants
.........................

is it just me or does it seem like woman are more effected to this?

[pol.science kid]

youre just looking at one side of things.... i am sure as a man you dont wax your chest and eyebrows do you??.. 

[Ash]

Here in the US we have a variety of subcultures and most of them derive
from some competition for limited resources (whether real or imagined)
largely influenced by the socioeconomic strata but also including group
identity (class, religion, sexuality, age, ethnicity, political
orientation, etc).

It is possible to become like a slave to the roles we play through
attachment to our values, ritualized behavior and institutionalized
ideation of our self and the world we live in. The reduction to slavery
I think involves corruption within our faculty of assessment where the
healthy mind reasons flexibly and creatively toward wisdom and
fulfillment of a virtuous life (even if simple by most standards) but is
reduced to programmed responses by institutionalizing influences. That
is as an automaton or robotic.

One difficult matter that Molly and a few others have been mentioning
lately is the influence, and intoxicating delusion of power provided by
domination. If you look across the spectrum of abuse from the vilest
sacks of crap to the excelsior and prestigious cruel overlords of reason
you may find them both motivated by similar hungers. The ends justify
the means and self-satisfaction comes at the cost of those underfoot who
are the means to their ends. That understanding and thousands of images
strike the anger out of one when the times come, like humble being
branded onto their psyche (or heart). That is what I mean if you hear me
say ignorance is a privilege. Also, the faculty of assessment is mostly
subconscious and domination is the most greatly rewarded in society and
the animal kingdom. The trick is to make intentions and motivations a
conscious choice so that we may behave as, and be 'human'.

IMO

[Molly]

"the influence, and intoxicating delusion of power provided by
domination."

Well put, Ash. One is a slave who allows themselves to be dominated.
Those who dominate are actually slaves to their own lower nature.
Making the choice to be neither, yet embracing all those that are, as
essential to the One, is the means to escaping the slavery we each
impose on ourselves.

> > (sorry for any grammar errors)- Hide quoted text -

[Pat]

On 31 May, 01:05, kdephil <kdep...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I want to start off saying I am new here at minds eye. I don't have a
> title nor do i desire one,
> (philosopher ,student, wannabe) it all doesn't matter.
>
> I remember when I was younger I wanted to fit in with the kids at
> school.
> I tried the baggy pants and and using curse words like everyone else
> was doing at middle school,
> but it never stick (I was socially retarded for that sort of thing).
> Now that i have gotten wiser I think this
> things were foolish now.
>

It's better to be yourself. Really, who else CAN you be? Fitting in
is a tricky thing because, if you rebel, then you 'fit in' with the
rebels; i.e., you conform to the non-conformists. Peer pressure can
be a tough thing to get through although I never went so far as to
claim I'd lost my virginity when I hadn't. It happened soon enough.

> so my questions are:
> 1) The way that society(except the family) programs a human, is it a
> type of brain washing ?
>

Well, as others here have stated, there's a certain amount of
'learning' that's done at school that isn't exactly a part of the
curriculum. It's picked up by associating with peers. Whether or not
we succomb to that style of learning is down to our own personal
strengths/weaknesses. Sometimes, it's just easier to watch it work on
others. ;-)

> ex. Mostly in the U.S some woman will try and get a boob job and
> thinks its ok, while most woman from east
> Asia will think the idea is disgusting.
>

Yes, culture would have a huge impact on decisions like this but,
ultimately, the decision is a personal one...for better or for worse.

[frantheman]

He who pays peanuts should not be surprised if he only gets monkeys as
a result!

[kdephil]

Thank you for your great opinions.
I've learned that the term brainwashing may not be good one if
everyone has been brainwashed.
When a child learns from what it was taught to them does it mean
they're brain washed?
Later, when a person questions what he was taught,only then will a
they be free,

I do keep some of things I was taught from society , but not after
questioning it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you guys don't think what i have learned is in the right path or i
am missing something plz replay.

[Slip Disc]

Perhaps we can say that what you refer to as the "One" is drunk with
the delusion of domination. Power is not a delusion, it is real and
possibly necessary for social functionality alternative to chaos and
anarchy. Like social upheavals the resistance to domination renders
an entire metropolis mere flotsam. Empires crumble when domination
ceases to exist. We, each in our microcosm of life, dominate our
environment in order to form a stable and productive mechanism.
Without domination our children, animals, friends and co-workers would
be completely without semblance. Sure there are those that foam at
the mouth with the craving for world domination but it doesn't negate
the basic need for it. We are not slaves to the necessity of
domination; it is as necessary as any other survival mechanism and a
natural function; a Darwinian principle.

[ornamentalmind]

....or elephants!

[pol.science kid]

Dude ..you sound like hobbes.. well he was affected by the english civil war.. wats your excuse...

[frantheman]

On 3 Jun., 06:41, ornamentalmind <ornsmindseyes...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> ....or elephants!
>
Knowing you as I do, I am QUITE sure you have no intention whatsoever
of referring to Republicans here ... :-)

[ornamentalmind]

Opppsss!!! RINOs perhaps? ;-)

[Slip Disc]

I didn't think I needed any excuse, Kid

[Pat]

On 2 June, 21:08, kdephil <kdep...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Thank you for your  great opinions.
> I've learned that the term brainwashing may not be good one if
> everyone has been brainwashed.
> When a child  learns from what it was taught to them does it mean
> they're  brain washed?

I would say, no. Unless they were brought up in a 'cult' environment
and what they were 'taught' was strictly the beliefs of the 'cult'.
There's a difference between general learning and 'conditioned
learning', which might be a better term for 'brainwashing'.
Brainwashing usually has ulterior (hidden) motives as the reason
behind the specific teaching, rather than just the general objective
of education. For example, at school, you are taught a variety of
subjects and it is difficult to see that as brainwashing, unless, if
at your particular school, you were only taught mathematics as
represented in the Bible and geography as presented in the Bible and
physics as presented in the Bible and language as expressed in the
Bible and the only literature you were allowed to read was the Bible,
then you might have reason to believe that you were being
brainwashed. I.e., the theme behind all of the teachings is the same
when being brainwashed and whether that groundwork theme is a
religious text or any particular philosophy, THAT is the keynote
signature of brainwashing.

As an example, Edward Alexander (Aleister) Crowley was taught at home
and was only allowed to read the Bible up to age 11, as he was raised
by a very strict Puritan family. Eventually, he rebelled so far that
his own self-education (and I include in that his time at Trinity
College, Cambridge, which was by his choice), although very wide in
scope, was still pre-occupied with religious overtones. The result
was a man who declared himself to be The Great Beast 666 himself.
Well, he wasn't. But it was that early strict, doctrinal upbringing
that focused his mind from an early age and, although he ended up
rebelling against it to the extreme, that brainwashing that was done
had everlasting effects. He did realise that and, although a very
intelligent man, he could never release himself from that
conditioning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleister_Crowley

> Later, when a person questions what he was taught,only then will a
> they be free,
>
> I do keep some of things I was taught from society , but not after
> questioning it.

> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­------------------------------------------------

[Ash]

"Perhaps we can say that what you refer to as the "One" is drunk with
the delusion of domination."

Hypothetically lets say an all-encompassing One exists, there might be no other option, and it must be what it is. Or perhaps the idea of One as we know it is an anthropomorphism or stop-gap measure for our minds to explain things beyond our comprehension. I do however personally agree with you, incapable of rising to planes of efficacy and comprehension we may have little recourse but to experience the drunkenness or saturation. This sadly I see to an extent as paralysis, but we are moving forward and I've gotten some interesting responses to that before.

"Power is not a delusion, it is real and possibly necessary for social functionality alternative to chaos and anarchy. Like social upheavals the resistance to domination renders
an entire metropolis mere flotsam."

The ends should be apparent in the means, the potential of the human
spirit (however one may see it) should be something, /anything/, other
than flotsam.

"Empires crumble when domination ceases to exist."

Trial and error perhaps? The increasing use of dominance may also be
seen as a sign of inadequacy and ultimately impotence. The idea of an
empire is to get everyone on board, dominance can only achieve things to
a point, because our empires are composed of people. Think of it like an
ant colony, that is the perfect empire, what unites the ants is the
common motivation (genetic predisposition for the caste, an effective
and strictly defined neurochemical communication system). The ants do
what they can, human beings are not and I think it is the disparity
between capacity and uptake of that potential which is hindering a 'self
actualization' of our species.

We are capable of much more than that, it just takes some hard work and
thought. Until an empire rises which unites all of mankind with a common
vision more of the same is just what we will have. In that time I think
the word power would become obsolete.

Just my impromptu recipe:
There are a few challenges to overcome and they should be fundamental:
population, resources, advancement. Quality of life for all people today
and into the future should be of ultimate concern.
The benefit to engaging responsible reproduction collectively should be
of concern. The development and adaptation to sustainable resource
usage. Advancement of effective sciences into public awareness and
governance (merit), and ultimately the species with the focus on time
(present, decades, centuries, millennia, eons). Advancement of arts for
all the diverse reasons we want to survive and make meaning.

Alternatives:
Reproduce and consume waiting for a bigger fish to come along. Make the
same mistakes again and again, perpetual growth and pyramid schemes. To
our credit I don't think most are aware of how great our potential is.

I agree that it is important we can 'descend' as appropriate to ensure
survival, but I think it is just as important to evolve and forge ahead
in order to stand the test of time. The logical conclusions of dominance
and control if allowed the reins is an ever increasing bureaucracy and
reduction of complex organic circumstances to convenient decision trees
and assessments.

Just an idea at this point, I bet you have some improvements and I would
like to hear them.

[Slip Disc]

"Hypothetically lets say", I love that line because it opens up a
cornucopia of possibilities, a world of make believe. Unfortunately I
don't work on that level. Pat uses it all the time to create a what
if scenario to support his hypothetical theories. The only thing that
solidifies it is your observation of the limited capacity of the human
mind. You have a lot to say which can be condensed quite a bit but
the underlying theme is for sure relevant. An old member, gruff, whom
I had many disagreements with on this, insisted that humanity is
progressing but in minute increments throughout history, to which I
disagree and view as more the decline and regression that I see as
apparent in the current cycle. What idiocy in this highly
technological world allows such incidences as the oil catastrophe in
the US Gulf of Mexico? Morons are we? Quite right. There is not
indication that we are any further ahead that we were in the pre-
industrial world. Trial and error? In this day and age where we have
traveled the universe, landed on the moon? The One? What "One"?

Sure I would have personal ideas for improvement and I'm sure
thousands of others would also have some. Unfortunately the
implementation of such ideas is nearly impossible under the current
jurisdiction of global regimes, including that of the US, one of the
most powerful global regimes. The terminology may seem to some harsh
but the reality remains the same; corporate mentality void of morality
renders the planet a mere economic tool regardless of the disastrous
fallout. I'm also sure that if you or anyone else yelled too loudly
the late night news would be reporting your unfortunate fatal
accident. They simply get rid of those that get in their way.

[Ash]

On 6/5/2010 2:58 AM, Slip Disc wrote:
> Unfortunately the
> implementation of such ideas is nearly impossible under the current
> jurisdiction of global regimes, including that of the US, one of the
> most powerful global regimes. The terminology may seem to some harsh
> but the reality remains the same; corporate mentality void of morality
> renders the planet a mere economic tool regardless of the disastrous
> fallout. I'm also sure that if you or anyone else yelled too loudly
> the late night news would be reporting your unfortunate fatal
> accident. They simply get rid of those that get in their way.
>

I agree it would be messy, that is the importance of grassroots (the
fundamental term). Finding subtle and effective ways to shape the system
from the symbols already residing within it.

'They'. Grey hat, to match the overcast. Among my edits-out was a censor
disclaimer, actually. Youth, death, and goodness has something to do
with self-sacrifice and I was always more the Fool than the Prince. :/

[Slip Disc]

Grassroots movements are good but only if there is strength in numbers
and global transparency. Small gatherings at the steps of the white
house don't really make a point that reverberates throughout the
world. MLK realized this and through peaceful assembly marched on
Washington in a way that could not be ignored; the world watched and
things changed. One of the obstacles of change is the complacency of
the masses who want the change but are unwilling to take part in the
transitory mechanism along with the doubt that anything will be
accomplished; a David and Goliath syndrome easily demonstrated by
voter apathy. As it is said, the more things change the more they
stay the same and meet the new boss; same as the old boss. Soap box
politicians have been deluding with change rhetoric for centuries and
still today they are going to clean up the mess left by the old
guarde. Fingers are always pointing somewhere else and the people are
left with the timeless notion of hope which usually gets trampled on
by political fat cats fine tuning their pork barrel spending plans.
It is obviously worse now that political influence can now be
purchased by corporate campaign funding ie; corporate conglomerations
of foreign and domestic concerns. It raises the question; who is
actually voting and who is actually in control? Fact is that it is
always a choice of the lessor of evils that are presented in the form
of nominated candidates which again is subject to manipulation by
electoral college; a process that is, for the average voter, too
complex to grok. Either way after the dust settles the alarm clocks go
off and everyone goes off to the same job, making the same pay while
struggling to make ends meet ie; except the fat cats of course.

[Ash]

" 'Hypothetically lets say', I love that line because it opens up a

cornucopia of possibilities, a world of make believe. Unfortunately I
don't work on that level."

Fortunately, neither do I, but I can, the way of the freer mind wouldn't
you say? I can very much agree with any of Pat, Orn, Molly, (the late)
Fidds and you as I can relate to many dimension of experience and
knowledge. Is that efficient or effective, perhaps not by most
standards, 'each unto his own sphere doth follow'. It is many times an
unfortunate state and cannot recommend it for another.

"An old member, gruff, whom I had many disagreements with on this,
insisted that humanity is progressing but in minute increments
throughout history, to which I disagree and view as more the decline and
regression that I see as apparent in the current cycle."

The stressors in natural selection reward survival under rather extreme
circumstances, to an extent we've beaten that off with our high degree
of specialization. Be that as it may, nature laughs last, and it is a
matter of time, we can only compensate so much before our ability to
survive becomes hinged on hyper specialization. It is a house of cards,
but that is another concern to add to the list of scientific
advancements and population.

"What idiocy in this highly technological world allows such incidences
as the oil catastrophe in the US Gulf of Mexico?"

The same kind that disregards a governance by merit and substantiation
in sound science. :)

"Morons are we? Quite right. There is not indication that we are any
further ahead that we were in the pre-industrial world."

We've become very specialized at great costs, but the opportunity to
learn from our mistakes is ever present. Mankind is in it's infancy. We
could discuss at length the lack of veracity in public discourse, and a
critical examination leads one to a cynical view of matters (rightly).
It is hard not to equate ignorance with malice, perhaps we need to take
CRIMINAL negligence a little more seriously. People will eventually tire
of even the feigned harikari on display. No excuses, they fully knew and
did not care and everyone will pay for it. Still, this is a lesson,
whether intentional (not referring to God here) or not and we
collectively need to take a look at what brought things to this point.

[Slip Disc]

Cynicism would be hard pressed to be softened when critical minds see
the substrata of society as being the flimsy and portentous foundation
that it is; the ground under our feet is no longer secure, no longer
stable. The world is in flux and no one really knows beyond
speculation what the future will bring. Currently the weight of the
elite is bowing the supports beyond capacity. We need to get these
gluttonous maggots off our backs; to hell with bailouts and bonuses.
Each unto his own sphere is all well and good when there is no
infringement or imposition upon others. The people are mere sheep
for harvest, cogs in the wheel of fortunes for the elite class that
also has back pocket military should the need arise.
I'd have to agree that we've lost our base survival skills and
dependency upon specializations including the genetic modification of
our food resources may in fact become the detriment that pushes us to
the brink of extinction; but might the planet be better off then?

[kdephil]

> stable. The world is in flux and no one really knows beyond
> speculation what the future will bring.

I can give a good guess.

well can i say that technology is a double-edged sword?
as tech get better it helps more people then ever before, it can all
so destroy them like ever before.
This will happen exponentially .

You ever hear of Moore's law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law

[kdephil]

I remember at school we all had to pledge our elegance to the flag of
America .
When i got a little older i wonder why do i have to do that.
It felt like iam giving my elegance to a king.
If the king wants to go to war i must not object or question it, for
i gave my elegance to him,

[Chris Jenkins]

I don't pledge elegance anymore...I pledge fabulous!

[gabbydott]

Awesome!

On 7 Jun., 05:41, Chris Jenkins <digitalprecip...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't pledge elegance anymore...I pledge fabulous!
>