Friendship
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pol.science kid
May 2, 2013, 1:42:44 PM5/2/13
to "Minds Eye"
It seemed as though my 'minds' life was dead.. but i was just doing
this term paper on Aristotle and Derrida on friendship and a question
came to me... .. i came across something that Cicero said i think..
that it is the law that one should not ask a friend for an unlawful
thing... or that wrong doing done for a friend is not excused, now the
Greeks were a little tough on virtue.. and i quite agree with them..
but for most us i think it would be difficult to determine whether a
thing is moral or immoral.. in more subtle cases in mean.. how do you
decide whether refusing to do an immoral thing for the sake of your
friend is really out of conscience or is it cowardice in the time of
problem.. is it a test of friendship?.... They say that one loves one
friend like one's self then would one punish one's friend like one
would one's self?Or is it that it is absolute and blind love that will
make one do anything for the sake of a friend... for example if our
friend committed a crime... this is just one example.. you guys can
think of lots others... Also would one think of troubling a friend
when one finds ones' self in a moral dilemma ... would one expect much
from them and think them traitor if they don't take our sides...
please feel free to add more thoughts to this.. and do say what you
think..
this term paper on Aristotle and Derrida on friendship and a question
came to me... .. i came across something that Cicero said i think..
that it is the law that one should not ask a friend for an unlawful
thing... or that wrong doing done for a friend is not excused, now the
Greeks were a little tough on virtue.. and i quite agree with them..
but for most us i think it would be difficult to determine whether a
thing is moral or immoral.. in more subtle cases in mean.. how do you
decide whether refusing to do an immoral thing for the sake of your
friend is really out of conscience or is it cowardice in the time of
problem.. is it a test of friendship?.... They say that one loves one
friend like one's self then would one punish one's friend like one
would one's self?Or is it that it is absolute and blind love that will
make one do anything for the sake of a friend... for example if our
friend committed a crime... this is just one example.. you guys can
think of lots others... Also would one think of troubling a friend
when one finds ones' self in a moral dilemma ... would one expect much
from them and think them traitor if they don't take our sides...
please feel free to add more thoughts to this.. and do say what you
think..
rigs
May 2, 2013, 2:19:45 PM5/2/13
to "Minds Eye"
The ultimate would be to sacrifice your life for a friend/child/love/
stranger. What about the law- being an accessory to a crime. Might be
like a poker game and knowing when to hold and when to fold. Also
consider if sin/grace are applicable to conscience/behavior. What
about the courage to stand alone? Maybe one has the wrong friends.Also
consider the influence of money and sex. Also the matter of what's
acceptable in war and not in civilian life or how certain acts are
justified- abortion is okay but killing a pregnant woman is double
homicide- when did that fetus assume human status? Is loving adultery
holier than a hellish, brutal marriage? Etc, etc., etc.
stranger. What about the law- being an accessory to a crime. Might be
like a poker game and knowing when to hold and when to fold. Also
consider if sin/grace are applicable to conscience/behavior. What
about the courage to stand alone? Maybe one has the wrong friends.Also
consider the influence of money and sex. Also the matter of what's
acceptable in war and not in civilian life or how certain acts are
justified- abortion is okay but killing a pregnant woman is double
homicide- when did that fetus assume human status? Is loving adultery
holier than a hellish, brutal marriage? Etc, etc., etc.
Allan H
May 2, 2013, 2:46:46 PM5/2/13
to mind...@googlegroups.com
I may not brake the law for a friend.. that does not mean I am not their friend and will stand by a friend and do what I can to help them..
I think friendship is something special
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|_D Allan
Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..
archytas
May 2, 2013, 8:46:00 PM5/2/13
to "Minds Eye"
Very difficult question. I have lied for friends. The context is
all.
> > For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
all.
rigs
May 3, 2013, 9:10:15 AM5/3/13
to "Minds Eye"
Sometimes silence is another form of cover-up/protection/shame. Or
taking the blame oneself for a husband/wife to avoid additional
scandal/mess. I don't lie very well- in fact I drop hints like it's a
discovery game!
> > Sometimes I need expert advice..- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
taking the blame oneself for a husband/wife to avoid additional
scandal/mess. I don't lie very well- in fact I drop hints like it's a
discovery game!
>
> - Show quoted text -
archytas
May 4, 2013, 11:12:30 AM5/4/13
to "Minds Eye"
Psychopaths are the best liars rigs - that's why we elect them. I
can't remember a single case cracked by spotting the liar - other than
in trapping people against facts I could check. There is something
wrong, in logic, with the old chestnut 'All Cretans are liars. I am a
Cretan'. The problem is that natural languages are not formally
logical. If asked by someone you considered a friend to lie about an
alibi concerning where he was when child abuse took place, friendship
is not really the issue, but how easily one was gulled into it and how
to leave it. We have a tendency to make absolute things that are
not. One can rather strangely love someone more because the 'I love
you' stuff isn't necessary and nor is the perpetuation of the
condition of 'first swoon'. I would lie to Nazis on anything and
everything I could muster the courage so to do. I suspect, in rather
strange relation to this, that we are all living on our knees beneath
economics - a situation that prevents much moral action and has us
living a lie.
can't remember a single case cracked by spotting the liar - other than
in trapping people against facts I could check. There is something
wrong, in logic, with the old chestnut 'All Cretans are liars. I am a
Cretan'. The problem is that natural languages are not formally
logical. If asked by someone you considered a friend to lie about an
alibi concerning where he was when child abuse took place, friendship
is not really the issue, but how easily one was gulled into it and how
to leave it. We have a tendency to make absolute things that are
not. One can rather strangely love someone more because the 'I love
you' stuff isn't necessary and nor is the perpetuation of the
condition of 'first swoon'. I would lie to Nazis on anything and
everything I could muster the courage so to do. I suspect, in rather
strange relation to this, that we are all living on our knees beneath
economics - a situation that prevents much moral action and has us
living a lie.
Allan H
May 4, 2013, 11:37:13 AM5/4/13
to mind...@googlegroups.com
Friendship ia a response to life.. and a friend would not ask you to cover up for them.. the old definition for politician was a professorial liar..
had a hair transplant was tired of being bald ..
the plastic surgery was optional but I though it was an improvement
;o)
archytas
May 4, 2013, 12:59:19 PM5/4/13
to "Minds Eye"
Great transformation Allan - not that I go much by personal looks, but
I'll be your friend now! Rigs' discovery game got me thinking. Only
7% of our language is declared in what we say - we read body language,
hormones, brain states - I even see shadows and auras at some times -
and you can add to that at least 9 varieties of argument types
including the eristic (in which ad hom is not necessarily a fallacy).
My suspicion, for many years, has been that objective-dispassionate
argument is a con - if we were capable of it I doubt advertising could
work. One wonders whether we ever get to "discovery".
I think we can safely say we can't build my 'relativity flight
machine' - let's blame Allan for refusing to lend me his hammer! The
farce in the thought experiment seems to many to be postulating
machine we can't build - but many of physic's experiments were once so
fantastic - we needed to send an evacuated lead balloon into space to
test some Einstein. My fascination with relativity flight (real
Planet of the Apes) is ludic. I'd probably like science fiction if
there was any. I've never come across any that engages biology other
than translating our present into gravity conditions we can't survive
and the stories are about such as friendship. We have no literature
I'm aware of that imagines a world in which we don't recreate old
chestnut human relations like friendship, love, hatred, revenge and
the usual soap. Relativity flight strikes me as restricted by
something much the same. We bubble our existing selves into the
future - but we do this by slowing everything in our speeding bubble
down whilst the outside ages as normal. The solar system we leave
disappears and our destination is a point in space-time yet to form as
it will be then (with us as 21st century earth-humans in it).
I'd guess we have already done something a bit like this. We are all
essentially primitive, small competing group humans ill-adjusted to
the modern, global world, perhaps as unsuited as relativity flight
humans would be emerging a couple of billion years into the future.
It could be that our notions of stuff like friendship are way off the
mark needed for modern society. Women were once stuck with economic
dependence and putting up with whatever went on in marriages - we
don't seem to remain friends on divorce as a rule - so what might
friendship mean really?
> image.png
> 209KViewDownload
I'll be your friend now! Rigs' discovery game got me thinking. Only
7% of our language is declared in what we say - we read body language,
hormones, brain states - I even see shadows and auras at some times -
and you can add to that at least 9 varieties of argument types
including the eristic (in which ad hom is not necessarily a fallacy).
My suspicion, for many years, has been that objective-dispassionate
argument is a con - if we were capable of it I doubt advertising could
work. One wonders whether we ever get to "discovery".
I think we can safely say we can't build my 'relativity flight
machine' - let's blame Allan for refusing to lend me his hammer! The
farce in the thought experiment seems to many to be postulating
machine we can't build - but many of physic's experiments were once so
fantastic - we needed to send an evacuated lead balloon into space to
test some Einstein. My fascination with relativity flight (real
Planet of the Apes) is ludic. I'd probably like science fiction if
there was any. I've never come across any that engages biology other
than translating our present into gravity conditions we can't survive
and the stories are about such as friendship. We have no literature
I'm aware of that imagines a world in which we don't recreate old
chestnut human relations like friendship, love, hatred, revenge and
the usual soap. Relativity flight strikes me as restricted by
something much the same. We bubble our existing selves into the
future - but we do this by slowing everything in our speeding bubble
down whilst the outside ages as normal. The solar system we leave
disappears and our destination is a point in space-time yet to form as
it will be then (with us as 21st century earth-humans in it).
I'd guess we have already done something a bit like this. We are all
essentially primitive, small competing group humans ill-adjusted to
the modern, global world, perhaps as unsuited as relativity flight
humans would be emerging a couple of billion years into the future.
It could be that our notions of stuff like friendship are way off the
mark needed for modern society. Women were once stuck with economic
dependence and putting up with whatever went on in marriages - we
don't seem to remain friends on divorce as a rule - so what might
friendship mean really?
> 209KViewDownload
gabbydott
May 4, 2013, 4:13:06 PM5/4/13
to minds-eye
LOL - How much did Molly charge you for this "Bring out the real YOU" experience? Just kidding, Mol, I know you are working in the auto industry now.
As for my friends, talking about them I have to admit all of them are somehow strange. Not embarrassing and distant, like family members, but strange. There is no real reason, no blood, nor otherwise existential connection. With my real friends I've had existential break ups, which I find a very good basis, so everyone knows life is good without the friend also. I am not good at keeping up a friendship and I consider myself lucky if I get the chance to pay back in a different currency.
Allan H
May 5, 2013, 12:34:01 AM5/5/13
to mind...@googlegroups.com
Thank you Neil I need all the friends I can get.. Well Tim has my hammer and is doing some forging on it and I can pas it on.. but if you want to see the the earlier version I could send it to you or the group.. That was what was neat about europe before the common currency all the different money and the expressionism that was in it..
rigs
May 5, 2013, 12:54:39 AM5/5/13
to "Minds Eye"
It's very screwed up feelings- very much a part of the co-dependency
cycles. It can also be survival- tales from al-anon are pretty
predictable.
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
cycles. It can also be survival- tales from al-anon are pretty
predictable.
rigs
May 5, 2013, 12:57:47 AM5/5/13
to "Minds Eye"
Why would one divorce someone you got along with and liked? I am
suspicious of friendly dicvorces. It must have something to do with
money. :-)
> > 209KViewDownload- Hide quoted text -
suspicious of friendly dicvorces. It must have something to do with
money. :-)
rigs
May 5, 2013, 1:02:03 AM5/5/13
to "Minds Eye"
I think people need better skills re how to argue fairly. Sometimes
it's easier to learn that with siblings if the parents are good
umpires.
On May 4, 3:13 pm, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> LOL - How much did Molly charge you for this "Bring out the real YOU"
> experience? Just kidding, Mol, I know you are working in the auto industry
> now.
>
> As for my friends, talking about them I have to admit all of them are
> somehow strange. Not embarrassing and distant, like family members, but
> strange. There is no real reason, no blood, nor otherwise existential
> connection. With my real friends I've had existential break ups, which I
> find a very good basis, so everyone knows life is good without the friend
> also. I am not good at keeping up a friendship and I consider myself lucky
> if I get the chance to pay back in a different currency.
>
> 2013/5/4 Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com>
> 209KViewDownload- Hide quoted text -
it's easier to learn that with siblings if the parents are good
umpires.
On May 4, 3:13 pm, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> LOL - How much did Molly charge you for this "Bring out the real YOU"
> experience? Just kidding, Mol, I know you are working in the auto industry
> now.
>
> As for my friends, talking about them I have to admit all of them are
> somehow strange. Not embarrassing and distant, like family members, but
> strange. There is no real reason, no blood, nor otherwise existential
> connection. With my real friends I've had existential break ups, which I
> find a very good basis, so everyone knows life is good without the friend
> also. I am not good at keeping up a friendship and I consider myself lucky
> if I get the chance to pay back in a different currency.
>
>
>
>
> > Friendship ia a response to life.. and a friend would not ask you to
> > cover up for them.. the old definition for politician was
> > a professorial liar..
>
> > had a hair transplant was tired of being bald ..
>
> > [image: Inline image 1]
>
> > the plastic surgery was optional but I though it was an improvement
> > ;o)
>
>
>
> > Friendship ia a response to life.. and a friend would not ask you to
> > cover up for them.. the old definition for politician was
> > a professorial liar..
>
> > had a hair transplant was tired of being bald ..
>
> > [image: Inline image 1]
>
> > the plastic surgery was optional but I though it was an improvement
> > ;o)
>
> > Sometimes I need expert advice..
>
> > --
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> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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>
>
> image.png
>
> > --
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> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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>
>
> 209KViewDownload- Hide quoted text -
archytas
May 10, 2013, 1:33:31 PM5/10/13
to "Minds Eye"
A friend of mine said yesterday that the woman he lives with is a
really lovely person and that He probably wouldn't miss her if he
moved out tomorrow.
really lovely person and that He probably wouldn't miss her if he
moved out tomorrow.
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