Vicious dogs have dud owners

[archytas]

ARE you right to trust your instincts if you cross the street when you
encounter a snarling pit bull with an equally forbidding owner? A new
study suggests that the owners of so-called "vicious" dogs commit more
crimes than those who do not own such a dog.

Laurie Ragatz and her colleagues at the University of West Virginia in
Morgantown examined whether owners of vicious dogs - those classed by
the American Kennel Club as breeds with a high risk of causing injury
to humans - were different in personality and behaviour to others.
Their online questionnaire of 758 students, 563 of whom owned dogs,
revealed owners of vicious dogs were significantly more likely to
admit crimes such as vandalism, illegal drug use and fighting than
other dog owners and those without dogs (Journal of Forensic Sciences,
DOI: 10.1111/j.1556-4029.2009.01001.x).

Hardly surprising. Perhaps we could guess each other's dog? I hope
all would guess I own Grommet(from Wallace and Grommet), though
suspect I might be seen as harbouring a rottweiler-pitbull! Does
Molly's poodle have a 'pitbull shadow'? Does Chris' domesticated
african hunting dog do ganga?

[ornamentalmind]

...being alergic to dogs, perhaps one can conclude that I'm alergic to
crime too?....perhaps not.
The first part of the question here is the troller's hook..."Are you
right to trust your instincts if...."

Who doesn't trust 'em? If not, why not? They are the highest
subjectivity can go without jumping into enlightened thinking!

[gabbydott]

Could we settle for instinct versus intuition? I could tell you
something about my allergies in turn.

[Don Johnson]

Pit bulls get a bad rep. Awesome breed and great with kids but I
wouldn't own one because of the liability. People discriminate
against them and their owners. I'd hazard a guess that those that
don't have a problem admitting to criminal behavior also might love
the attention owning a 'bad dog' would bring them. There are no bad
dogs, just bad owners.

dj

[archytas]

My car was vandalised again last night by a woman with two
"Staffordshire-druggie" dogs in tow. She left her fingerprints and
I'm 90% sure who did it. Cops are yet to get here with the
fingerprint kit (24 hours on). Maybe we could breed a dog that passed
on the allergy of integrity?

On 18 Apr, 23:27, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Pit bulls get a bad rep.  Awesome breed and great with kids but I
> wouldn't own one because of the liability.  People discriminate
> against them and their owners.  I'd hazard a guess that those that
> don't have a problem admitting to criminal behavior also might love
> the attention owning a 'bad dog' would bring them.  There are no bad
> dogs, just bad owners.
>
> dj
>

[Slip Disc]

Did you know or do you realize that if you sell off your excess, get
into your vehicle and drive into the great wide open, without any idea
of destination, that you will find yourself out of the quagmire of
shiite neighbors and the dog eat dog world? Just leave, there is a
really great world waiting for you, far from where you are now.

[archytas]

I'd have to leave my vegetable plot Slip!

[Slip Disc]

You just might be the weak link here, arch!

[Rouzbeh Xarasea]

I think there are a couple of things worth considering here before any conclusion can be drawn:
1. this is an online survey, so already this is not going to be representative of most vicious dog owners. although i have no data to back it up, i assume that most "criminals" do not spend a high proportion of their time filling out a self-assessment questionnaires on the internet
2. it claims the vicious dog owners admit to crimes however, it does not mention whether or not these crimes would be more in number or severity than the crimes commited by the average man. so perhaps the true conclusion is that possessing a vicious dog just makes you honest?

[Slip Disc]

Truth is, as I see it, dogs have been known to attack their owners
without provocation, with many attacks resulting in the fatality of
the owner. So I think people forget that all dogs are "animals" once
wild and untamed and have an innate violent nature which can emerge at
any given time. The statistics presented in the link show that not
only vicious dogs are known to cause death, as was the case with the
Pomeranian killing the infant. The correlation between dogs and
owners may have some credence within a controlled study and
accumulated statistical data but overall dogs, regardless of the
owner's temperament, can be vicious. http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/danger.htm#meaning
I found this website to be a worthwhile read with current statistical
data. Read through "Canine Homicides" for a real eye opener.

Here is the March 2009 portion.

March 2009: Five people were killed by dogs in the USA in March 2009,
and a sixth perished from infection after being bitten.
A two-week-old baby was killed by a dog on March 4, 2009, in Mesa,
Arizona. The mother had placed the infant in a low-lying bassinet or
crib, with a Chow-Chow in the house. Arizona is a statutory strict
liability state.
On March 16, 2009, Hill A. Williams Jr., a 38-year-old California man,
was mauled to death by his two bull mastiffs, in his own back yard.
California is a statutory strict liability state.
On March 22, 2009, Dustin E. Faulkner, a 3-year-old boy from Georgia,
was killed by a wolf-hybrid. Details are sketchy at this time. Georgia
has a dog bite statute that incorporates much of the one-bite rule
(see Georgia on this site).
Dolly Newell, an 80-year-old California woman, died on March 24, 2009,
several days after she was bitten in the hand by a dog while feeding
it. For some reason, she told the hospital staff she injured her
finger while gardening. They stitched the bite closed and she went
home, to die of infection. This death will not appear in most lists of
canine inflicted fatalities, but it should because it was initiated by
the dog bite and it is well known that the bacteria in a dog's saliva
can cause death.
On March 26, 2009, Tyso Miller, an 18-month-old Texas boy, was
fatally attacked in his back yard by a female pit bull. His parents
had been caring for the dog and apparently thought it to be harmless.
Texas is a one-bite state and the national leader in canine homicides.
(See Dog Bite Statistics.)
On March 31, 2009, two pit bulls killed Izaiah G. Cox in San Antonio,
Texas, as the child was laying on a bed. The dogs broke through or
went over a baby gate inside the house. When the baby's grandmother
tried to rescue him, the pit bulls attacked her too, requiring
hospitalization. Texas is a one bite state and the USA's leader in
fatal dog attacks on people (see Dog Bite Statistics on this site).

Don't forget the horrible story about the....................

Death of Diane Whipple

On January 26, 2001 Diane Whipple was attacked and killed in her San
Francisco apartment building by two Presa Canario/mastiff mix dogs
owned by her neighbors, Marjorie Knoller and her husband Robert Noel.
Both neighbors were convicted of involuntary manslaughter and felony
charges of keeping a mischievous dog in 2002 (mostly based on witness
testimony regarding their level of control of the dogs and
unwillingness to take professional advice), and Knoller was indicted
for second degree murder.
Knoller was found guilty of second degree murder, but the trial judge
ruled for a new trial. In May 2005 the Court of Appeal overturned the
call for a new trial, and Knoller (a lawyer) appealed to the
California Supreme Court. The Supreme Court ordered the trial court to
reconsider the second degree murder conviction, and the court
reinstated the conviction.
On September 22, 2008 the court sentenced Marjorie Knoller to serve 15
years to life for the death of Diane Whipple.
To date, this is believed to be the only murder sentence handed out in
the United States to an individual found guilty of causing death by a
dog that they own.

Of course I do see a breed specific danger in Pit Bulls, Rots and
other large powerful breeds.

Check this out.............

Through January 20, 2002, the log of life-threatening and fatal
attacks showed that pit bulls had committed 592 (45%) of the 1,301
total attacks qualifying for inclusion, including 280 (21%) of the
attacks on children, 222 (60%) of the attacks on adults, 51 (34%) of
the fatal attacks, and 321 (45%) of the maimings and disfigurements.

Rottweilers had committed 291 (22%) of the attacks, including 24% of
the attacks on children, 63 (17%) of the attacks on adults, 36 (24%)
of the fatalities, and 159 (22%) of the maimings and disfigurements.

Combined, pit bulls and Rottweilers had committed 72% of all the
attacks, 45% of the attacks on children, 77% of the attacks on adults,
58% of the fatalities, and 67% of the maimings and disfigurements.

Dog Attack Danger Scale
Here are the 6 danger-signs that warn of a dog attack. Knowing them
can keep you and your children safe.

1. A dog in its own yard, and no master present. In 2008, 78% of the
human fatalities were by dogs in their own yard.

2. Pit bull, Rottweiler, Akita or Chow. Most fatal dog attacks are by
pit bulls. In 2008, 65% of the fatalities were by pit bulls.

3. The pack mentality. Three dogs are worse than 2, 4 are worse than
3, etc. Docile dogs often become uncharacteristically violent and
vicious when they are in a pack. In 2008, 39% of the fatalities
involved multiple dogs.

4. Chained or tethered. Dogs that are tied up are dangerous. In 2008,
9% of the fatalities involved chained dogs.

5. Male. Male dogs are several times more dangerous than female dogs.
Unneutered male dogs are the worst.

6. Newness. A new dog in the house is dangerous for the first 60 days,
and a person who is new to a household where a dog resides is in
danger of attack for the first 60 days. In 2007 and 2008, 20% of fatal
dog attacks involved a new person or dog sharing a household for a
period of two months or less.

The presence of any one factor indicates danger. Two or more of these
danger-signs should be avoided at all costs.


http://www.dogbitelaw.com/#scale

[Don Johnson]

I'm familiar with the statistics and understand they influence folk's
choices when choosing a breed. Many, many dog lovers such as myself
wouldn't own a breed with a bad reputation(for the reasons stated
earlier) yet many non-responsible owners would just for the novelty.
This skews the stats to impugn the breed. Dog's are products of
operant conditioning(B. F. Skinner.) Dogs rewarded for vicious
behavior will most likely be a problem. Dogs given direction by
training and positive reinforcement are almost never a problem.

The dog attack danger scale is good advice. I especially like the
'newness' warning. Dogs need a chance to adjust to new owners and
learn good behavior. Not all dogs are salvageable if they've been
treated badly or ignored. These are the ones that need to be put down
like a predatory pedophile.

Seems weird you need a license to drive a car and repair
computers(http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2324220,00.asp) but any
moron can lawfully raise a child or own a dog.

dj

[gruff]

I think a lot of dog attacks are more the fault of the people who got
bit than the dog.

I hike around the desert quite a bit and have run into wild dog packs
and coyote packs more than a few times. The two things you don't want
to do are show fear or run. Dogs can smell fear and they will chase
down anything that runs.

I've faced down menacing dogs and dog packs many times by just
standing my ground an ordering them back in a loud aggressive voice.
Sometimes I even make a menacing move toward them. This same strategy
works with bears too (with the sole exception of perhaps grizzlies and
polar bears.) This strategy does NOT work with wild cats. There was
an incident here in Arizona just the other night. A bobcat strolled
into a bar in Phoenix and clawed up quite a few people before it found
its way out of the bar. Maybe they didn't want to serve him (or her.)

[gruff]

There's a simple correlation: if you don't trust the owner, don't
trust the dog, and vice versa.

[l...@rdfmedia.com]

From my own personal and subjective POV, there does indeed seem to be
a little truth in this.

[Slip Disc]

That is a personal view gruff, you can't be serious as to suggest that
some of the people in the "canine homicide" link were "more" at fault
than the dogs that attacked them, unprovoked that is. Why is an 80
year old woman more at fault for getting mauled to death by a dog when
she is peacefully working in her garden? Dogs are wild beasts as are
the tigers that mauled Roy Horn. People just have this notion that
they can keep these huge muscular dogs, with a history of attacking
without provocation, as sweet little pets. I have 3 Chihuahuas and
can see how vicious they can get so I wouldn't trust them if they
weighed in over 100 pounds. I have as you, fended off attacking dogs
simply by acting like the dogs master or showing enough aggression to
make the dogs think twice about messing with me, but this in know way
lessens the fact that dogs can be dangerous.
The number of attacks is evidence enough.

[gruff]

I'm sorry Slip, but with very few exceptions, a dog that smells fear
will generally attack and a dog that sees someone running away from
them will chase and possibly attack. In most cases of attack by dog
the dog was either raised to be vicious -- in which case it is not the
fault of the person being attacked, but rather of the owner and in
that case -- IMHO, both the owner and the dog should be put down OR
the person who was attacked did something to provoke the dog or showed
excessive fear of the dog. My dog Zoe is as gentle as they come and
has never attacked or bitten anyone (other than another dog who was
after her food), but she has run into people twice that had an
irrational fear of dogs and while she didn't attack them, she growled
menacingly at them and bared her teeth.

I think it fits with the sage advice that the only thing we have to
fear is someone who is afraid of us. It works with humans, dogs and
probably a lot of other creatures as well.

[ornamentalmind]

Let me see if I have this right....If I show excessive fear of...a
dog, a mountain lion, a hippo....and I am attacked I can be the one at
fault?

> > > > data.  Read through "Canine Homicides" for a real eye opener.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -