3D printing on foam

[the_digital_dentist]

MegaMax has been getting great results printing on the foam used in the Stratasys machine, but that stuff has to be purchased from Stratasys, at least until we find a reliable alternate, cheap, bulk source.  I took a few pieces of the PIR (polyisocyanurate) foam from the wood shop last week (the 4'x8' sheets of yellow foam with aluminum foil glued to both sides) and tried printing on one with MegaMax yesterday.  Results were very good.  The ABS sticks to the PIR with about the same tenacity as it does to the Stratasys foam.  PIR foam is used for wall and roofing insulation and withstands high temperatures without decomposing.  Check this:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKpPz8JgHOY ,  MSDS here:  http://www.dunagroup.com/dati/pdf/msds-duna-usa-corafoam-pir-foam-rev_1.pdf

Why would you want to print on foam?  No bed heating is required- a) no heater, less power, b) simpler wiring, c) faster prints because you don't have to wait for the bed to heat up, d) no "abs juice" or hairspray mess, e) in reprap type machines, lower moving mass in the Y-axis because you don't need a heavy heater+glass printbed.

I'm getting ready to replace the bushings in the X and Y axes with linear bearings so I designed and printed a bearing block on the PIR foam last night.  I printed the 1.5" square block without a raft and found just a little lifting of the corners, but I think a raft will take care of that.

 This is the bearing block on the foam slab- you can see where I had a "head-crash".  Unlike the Stratasys foam, this stuff doesn't crumble to dust when squashed.  It cuts easily with a razor knife with light pressure or a saw.

  This is the underside of the part after pulling it up from the foam.  There's a lot less foam stuck to the part compared to the Stratasys foam.

 here you can see where the part came off the foam.  Unlike the Stratasys foam, the surface is still pretty smooth after removing the part.  One block of foam would be useable for many, many prints.

  Here's the bearing inserted into the block.  It's a tight fit- I had to pry the part open with a screw driver too get the bearing in there.  It is held captive without any additional hardware.  The block was printed without any support material.

[the_digital_dentist]

Did I forget to mention that the part was printed with ABS?

[Ed Hagopian]

Do you have a video if it on the foam? This is unheated and unenclosed I presume as well?

Could be a great step forward for the consumer scene.

[Keith Voit]

DD,

Interesting innovation and I defer to your expertise of 3D printing. The previous bed of foam on the printer appeared to be highdensity PUR, it can be purchased locally at most sign shops that do routing of signs. ther is also General Plastics,Jiffy Foam, and Last-a-Foam.  From your criteria why wouldn't wood work?

[Have Blue]

**applause**

That's fantastic!  The Stratasys foam is Last-a-Foam FR-7104.  The crumbling to dust issue may be due to the age of the foam (all the stuff I have is pretty old), but I can't be certain.  I don't know how much it would be to purchase a 48x96 sheet of it, but my guess is that you pay through the nose for shipping.

I will definitely have to give the PIR foam a shot on the Stratasys now...

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[the_digital_dentist]

Unheated, unenclosed, in my cold basement!

I'm going to make changes to the design of the bearing block and start printing later today.  I'll make some video and post a link.

[Pete Prodoehl]

One thing I like about printing on glass/kapton is the smooth shiny surface you get... this is why I sometimes print things face down... but the foam does look interesting!

Worth a blog post even. ;)


Pete

On 5/13/13 8:21 AM, the_digital_dentist wrote:

MegaMax has been getting great results printing on the foam used in the Stratasys machine, but that stuff has to be purchased from Stratasys, at least until we find a reliable alternate, cheap, bulk source.  I took a few pieces of the PIR (polyisocyanurate) foam from the wood shop last week (the 4'x8' sheets of yellow foam with aluminum foil glued to both sides) and tried printing on one with MegaMax yesterday.  Results were very good.  The ABS sticks to the PIR with about the same tenacity as it does to the Stratasys foam.  PIR foam is used for wall and roofing insulation and withstands high temperatures without decomposing.  Check this:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKpPz8JgHOY ,  MSDS here:  http://www.dunagroup.com/dati/pdf/msds-duna-usa-corafoam-pir-foam-rev_1.pdf

Why would you want to print on foam?  No bed heating is required- a) no heater, less power, b) simpler wiring, c) faster prints because you don't have to wait for the bed to heat up, d) no "abs juice" or hairspray mess, e) in reprap type machines, lower moving mass in the Y-axis because you don't need a heavy heater+glass printbed.

I'm getting ready to replace the bushings in the X and Y axes with linear bearings so I designed and printed a bearing block on the PIR foam last night.  I printed the 1.5" square block without a raft and found just a little lifting of the corners, but I think a raft will take care of that.

 This is the bearing block on the foam slab- you can see where I had a "head-crash".  Unlike the Stratasys foam, this stuff doesn't crumble to dust when squashed.  It cuts easily with a razor knife with light pressure or a saw.

  This is the underside of the part after pulling it up from the foam.  There's a lot less foam stuck to the part compared to the Stratasys foam.

 here you can see where the part came off the foam.  Unlike the Stratasys foam, the surface is still pretty smooth after removing the part.  One block of foam would be useable for many, many prints.

  Here's the bearing inserted into the block.  It's a tight fit- I had to pry the part open with a screw driver too get the bearing in there.  It is held captive without any additional hardware.  The block was printed without any support material.

[Brent Bublitz]

Instead of a raft try a brim. Should help hold the corners down and would require a lot less trimming.

[the_digital_dentist]

I tried something with one of my prints last night- just put a little acetone on a cloth and wipe the surface of the print.  Makes it really shiny!

[Brent Bublitz]

I have been trying the acetone vapor thing. It seems to work great.
http://hackaday.com/2013/03/23/smoothing-3d-prints-with-acetone-vapor/

[Pete Prodoehl]

I never use rafts, and for most prints now (with the warmer weather) I rarely use brims. But brims are pretty useful for keeping corners down and do help prevent warping.

Pete

[Brent Bublitz]

The only time I use a full raft is when I wind up with a lot of tiny support material points at the base. The head will almost always rip them up if I don't raft it. For something with a solid base contact, brims have been fantastic for me.

[the_digital_dentist]

That Last-a-Foam stuff is pricey!  http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/lastafoam.php

[Have Blue]

These guys are a distributor for Last-a-Foam in Rock Island, IL - I
wonder if they might have it cheaper: http://www.blackhawksales.com/

On 5/13/2013 5:20 PM, the_digital_dentist wrote:
> That Last-a-Foam stuff is pricey!

> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/lastafoam.php --

[Pete Prodoehl]

I suppose it'll matter how quickly it's consumed... versus kapton/pet/blue tape, etc.


Pete

On 5/13/13 5:20 PM, the_digital_dentist wrote:

That Last-a-Foam stuff is pricey!  http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/lastafoam.php --
 
---

[Ed Hagopian]

My thinking is that with foam in an enclosed area where temperature can be controlled better that you'd have very little lifting. I suppose with a heated bed and enclosed you'd get that as well but temp control on the bed was always kinda a PITA. Plus replacement of foam beds allow for quick swaps of bed. I'm very interested to see how this turns out.

[the_digital_dentist]

Video of MegaMax printing on PIR foam here:  https://vimeo.com/66108108

Video of me trying in vain to pull a part off the foam with one hand here:  https://vimeo.com/66108107

[Ed Hagopian]

That was damn funny.

[the_digital_dentist]

New video:  full-size skull printing.  After 7 hours it is about 15% complete.  I see problems already- I used hexagonal support material spaced at 5mm and it is a little too large so some small, overhanging features are curling up a bit because they don't have adequate support.  If the print head hits them from the wrong direction they'll get worse and maybe wreck the print.  The model seems to be sticking to the bed just fine.

https://vimeo.com/66160047

[Jim Rawson]

It looks OK, although I was looking forward to watching a 7 hour video.

On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 10:44 AM, the_digital_dentist <mark.r...@gmail.com> wrote:

New video:  full-size skull printing.  After 7 hours it is about 15% complete.  I see problems already- I used hexagonal support material spaced at 5mm and it is a little too large so some small, overhanging features are curling up a bit because they don't have adequate support.  If the print head hits them from the wrong direction they'll get worse and maybe wreck the print.  The model seems to be sticking to the bed just fine.

https://vimeo.com/66160047

--

[Pete Prodoehl]

What percentage for infill?

Are you printing with support?

Are you opposed to splitting the model in half and printing two separate pieces? (To avoid using support, if you are using support.)

also, can I have an STL of a skull? :)

Pete

On 5/14/13 10:44 AM, the_digital_dentist wrote:

New video:  full-size skull printing.  After 7 hours it is about 15% complete.  I see problems already- I used hexagonal support material spaced at 5mm and it is a little too large so some small, overhanging features are curling up a bit because they don't have adequate support.  If the print head hits them from the wrong direction they'll get worse and maybe wreck the print.  The model seems to be sticking to the bed just fine.

https://vimeo.com/66160047

-- 

[the_digital_dentist]

On Tuesday, May 14, 2013 10:58:35 AM UTC-5, Pete Prodoehl wrote:

What percentage for infill?

10% 

Are you printing with support?

the hexagonal stuff is the support material. 

Are you opposed to splitting the model in half and printing two separate pieces? (To avoid using support, if you are using support.)

Just trying to print it whole first to see what happens.  Splitting is a possibility, though I'm not sure I'd be able to print without support material anyway. 

also, can I have an STL of a skull? :)

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4378 

Pete 

[Ed Hagopian]

Gonna be expensive with that much plastic.

[Pete Prodoehl]

Weight it when you're done to determine the cost of plastic to produce it.

Also, why not use white or natural filament for a skull?  ;)

Pete

[the_digital_dentist]

Also, why not use white or natural filament for a skull?  ;)

Pete

Oh Pete, you're so conservative! 

[the_digital_dentist]

Well, the full-size skull crapped out when the extruder nozzle clogged.  Now the question is this: was it something in the filament or something it picked up on its way into the extruder?  I guess I'll be adding a bit of grounded steel wool or some such thing to the path to eliminate problems of the latter type.

[Pete Prodoehl]

I've seen people fold and lightly clip a fresh household sponge around the filament to capture any dust or other particles before it feeds into the extruder.

Pete

[the_digital_dentist]

I have noticed the filament develops a static charge as  it comes off the reel.  I think it would be a good idea to ground the filament by wiping with a grounded conductor like steel wool or similar stuff to keep dust and what not from sticking to the filament all the way to the extruder.  Of course, this may just be a problem on my machine where the filament is sliding on a piece of PVC pipe lashed to the frame of the machine to keep the filament from interfering with the motion of the print head.

The part of the skull that actually printed came out pretty good, but would have been better if I had used smaller spacing on the support material.  It was about 1.5" high when I pulled it off the machine and used 150gm of filament.  It was a lot of work to get it to let go of the foam!

[Tom Lindley]

If I wanted to experiment with this, where and what would you suggest for getting the actual foam? One site that has a bunch of foam (smaller pieces) is McMaster-Carr but I don't know enough about their categories to make sense out of the selection. Any ideas on where (online preferred) to get some stock to play with?

 

Thanks.

On Monday, May 13, 2013 8:21:23 AM UTC-5, the_digital_dentist wrote:

MegaMax has been getting great results printing on the foam used in the Stratasys machine, but that stuff has to be purchased from Stratasys, at least until we find a reliable alternate, cheap, bulk source.  I took a few pieces of the PIR (polyisocyanurate) foam from the wood shop last week (the 4'x8' sheets of yellow foam with aluminum foil glued to both sides) and tried printing on one with MegaMax yesterday.  Results were very good.  The ABS sticks to the PIR with about the same tenacity as it does to the Stratasys foam.  PIR foam is used for wall and roofing insulation and withstands high temperatures without decomposing.  Check this:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKpPz8JgHOY ,  MSDS here:  http://www.dunagroup.com/dati/pdf/msds-duna-usa-corafoam-pir-foam-rev_1.pdf

Why would you want to print on foam?  No bed heating is required- a) no heater, less power, b) simpler wiring, c) faster prints because you don't have to wait for the bed to heat up, d) no "abs juice" or hairspray mess, e) in reprap type machines, lower moving mass in the Y-axis because you don't need a heavy heater+glass printbed.

I'm getting ready to replace the bushings in the X and Y axes with linear bearings so I designed and printed a bearing block on the PIR foam last night.  I printed the 1.5" square block without a raft and found just a little lifting of the corners, but I think a raft will take care of that.

 This is the bearing block on the foam slab- you can see where I had a "head-crash".  Unlike the Stratasys foam, this stuff doesn't crumble to dust when squashed.  It cuts easily with a razor knife with light pressure or a saw.

  This is the underside of the part after pulling it up from the foam.  There's a lot less foam stuck to the part compared to the Stratasys foam.

 here you can see where the part came off the foam.  Unlike the Stratasys foam, the surface is still pretty smooth after removing the part.  One block of foam would be useable for many, many prints.

  Here's the bearing inserted into the block.  It's a tight fit- I had to pry the part open with a screw driver too get the bearing in there.  It is held captive without any additional hardware.  The block was printed without any support material.

[the_digital_dentist]

On Wednesday, May 15, 2013 4:05:02 PM UTC-5, Tom Lindley wrote:

If I wanted to experiment with this, where and what would you suggest for getting the actual foam? One site that has a bunch of foam (smaller pieces) is McMaster-Carr but I don't know enough about their categories to make sense out of the selection. Any ideas on where (online preferred) to get some stock to play with?

The best thing about this stuff is that it is readily available and cheap- it is used for building insulation.  There are two 4'x8' sheets in the wood shop at the makerspace.  Actually, one of the sheets in now 4'x7' because I chopped the foam I'm using out of it.  You can get a 4'x8' sheet of 1/2" PIR foam at Home Depot for $10.  Here's a 1" thick sheet for $15:  http://www.homedepot.com/p/Thermasheath-3R-5-9-1-in-4-ft-x-8-ft-Foam-Insulation-787264/100549260#.UZP6HrWkrto

[Val Cocora]

hi, I recently purchased a 1 inch board of pir foam, but it has paper on both sides which is hard to peel. do you know of any way to get rid of this paper, or maybe I could print over it? Thanks.

[the_digital_dentist]

I just peeled it off, but if that doesn't work for you, use some very coarse sandpaper to grind it off.