Looking to convert a yard light to LED, where to get the LED stuff?

[rod...@rodneydickman.com]

I have many of these Ruud lights around my house and detached garage:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390575835058&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1120&autorefresh=true

I have one I want to try to convert if possible to LED. In time I might do this to more of them. I have them from 50 watt HPS to 100 watt HPS. The one I want to convert to LED can be a lower light output. Maybe equivalent to a 75 watt incandescent bulb? The plastic globe has a aluminum shield in them that covers the upper half. So the LED ( a flat plate type?) can be around 7" by 3 1/2" and any thickness as I know they are thin. 2" thick would be OK but I know LED's are generally thin.

I go on eBay and there are like 2 million LED lights available. How do I find something to suit me? I would also like top quality as these lights are most all mounted very high and hard to work on. The aluminum housings are plenty large enough to hold a transformer. The transformer can also be installed inside the attic.

Or I can use a standard 120 volt LED bulb places like Menards etc sell and install a standard bulb holder.  I worry those bulbs will not last long term?

Thanks
Rodney

[David Buggs]

If you decide to go this direction I'd get in on an order, there is no mention of minimum order size (some of these companies require large bulk purchases).

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/516858590/16mm_CREE_XM_L_T6_LED.html

I've purchased several dozen flashlights with these in them and I give them away as gifts and everyone loves them.  They approach 1000 Lumen and cost me less than $15 apiece, shipped from China.

Buggs

Rodney

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[Tom Gralewicz]

You need to use a current limited switching supply to get the full efficiency out of LED lights, a transformer looses too much power to resistance losses and without a current limiting supply the LEDs won't be consistently bright and will either burn out early or won't put out maximum light.

There are plenty of ICs and reference designs for building your own supply, but remember you are messing with 120AC rectified to 150V DC and you didn't run your design through UL listing :-)

If your goal is just to save some money on energy, go with CFL replacements.  If you really want LEDs, go ahead and buy them.  If you want to experiment with building your own LED lighting, look for designs based on low volt systems - like 12V batteries.  Then you can get some solar cells to recharge a car battery and run your lights for free *

*  Actual savings many vary.  In fact, you'll spend more on the system than it will save you in the long run.  But it will be fun to build.

--
Tom Gralewicz
Miller Electronics Recycling
(414) 380-1716
www.deadcomputers.com

[the_digital_dentist]

There are some ultracapacitors on the shelf in the parts library that appear to be about 2500F at 2.5V.  They could be used to store charge from solar cells and you could use a DC-DC converter to supply power to the LEDs at night.  Ultracaps work over -40 to +very high temps and are good for 100k+ charge/discharge cycles.

[Tony]

That's probably not the best use for the ultracaps.  While they will work, it's like taking someone's Ferrari and burying it in your yard for accent lighting.

This is the most innovative design I have seen for a high-power LED bulb for replacing a standard incandescent:
http://www.thenanoleaf.com/

It's basically a bunch of PCBs folded together into a bulb shape:
http://vimeo.com/57191102
http://footmarker.com/2013/01/nanolight-the-worlds-most-energy-efficient-lightbulb/structure/

I thought it would overheat immediately because of a lack of heatsinks, but I saw the 100W equivalent running for a few hours without problems.  They even claim that you can put it in an enclosure.  The light output is not terribly diffused so you would need some kind of reflector for spotlight use or a diffuser for ambient light, but that's the nature of the beast for LED lighting.  If you're going commercial, you're basically looking for at least 1200 lumens (for a 75-Watt equivalent) Since the light output is different because of the point-source nature of LED lighting, you probably want 1600+ lumens to get a similar amount of apparent light  If you want to build it yourself, their board-based design makes a pretty good base for your own.

If you do buy a bulb, make sure it's UL Listed.  You don't want to beta test something that could start your house on fire when you're not looking.

Here is some general info on DIY LED lighting:
http://www.eevblog.com/2009/12/19/eevblog-50-solid-state-led-lighting-and-how-thermal-design-sucks/

 - Tony

On 04/13/2013 01:54 PM, the_digital_dentist created:

There are some ultracapacitors on the shelf in the parts library that appear to be about 2500F at 2.5V.  They could be used to store charge from solar cells and you could use a DC-DC converter to supply power to the LEDs at night.  Ultracaps work over -40 to +very high temps and are good for 100k+ charge/discharge cycles. --

[Tom Gralewicz]

You will also find that ultracaps don't really hold that much energy, running a 1A LED on the 2500F caps would run for less than 3 hours before the voltage drops too low to light the LED.

NiCd or NiMih batteries are cheaper and hold much more energy.  Now all you need is a charge management circuit  and a high efficiency current regulator to drive the LEDs.

[rod...@rodneydickman.com]

I guess LED is maybe not the way to go.  If I convert it to use a typical spiral CFL bulb what is the longest lasting bulb I can use? If I would change to a CFL I would want the longest lasting type possible.  There are certainly many available. Low price is usually what you see advertised. Do any advertise extra long life?

Thanks
Rodney

[the_digital_dentist]

CFLs don't work well at very low temperatures, and when they do they take a while to warm up.  My experience with reliability has been that they NEVER get anywhere near their claimed long lifetime, especially if you use them outdoors where the temperature varies a lot.

Cree makes 60W equivalent LED bulbs that use 9W that are sold at Home Depot for $15 with a 10 year warranty.  It remains to be seen if they actually last anywhere near as long as the warranty would lead you to believe.  They fit in normal incandescent bulb space and socket.

http://www.cree.com/lighting/products/indoor/lamps/60w-replacement-daylight-type-a-led-bulb

Whenever I put a new CFL and recently LED lamp into service I write the date on the bulb so that when it dies I can get some idea of how long it actually lasted.

[rod...@rodneydickman.com]

I had a very low wattage CFL spiral bulb in an outside fixture and it lasted several years. Seemed to always go on no matter how cold it was outside. Maybe 15 watt equivalent. Was still working when I tore down my old sun room last year. Maybe lower wattage CFL's last longer.

Maybe I'll try this bulb. A 60 watt CFL equivalent bulb should be enough.

If I stay with the 50 watt HP sodium I have the starter that eventually fails and the bulb claims a 5 year life?  Plus a 50 watt HP sodium is fairly yellowish.

So I'm interested in trying the CFL bulb.

Thanks
Rodney

[Ron Bean]

>Maybe lower wattage CFL's last longer.

That's been my experience. I think the ballast is under-designed in the
higher wattage ones.

I'd be interested in seeing how long the LED bulbs would last in that
kind of application. They should last at least as long as a CFL.

[Brent Bublitz]

CFLs are not good for outdoors in Wisconsin, no matter what your fixture or housing. I would use LED with a simple battery circuit.

[Tom Gralewicz]

I have had mixed luck with both CFL and LED bulbs in outdoor application.

For it it has been porch lights.

I had one CFL that lasted over 15 years, on every night and others that didn't last 1 year.

Same with cheap LED bulbs (ones bought 5 years ago, not the current generation.)

[Phil G]

I took apart some failed CFL bulbs and there was a surprising range of quality in the electronics. Some used all discrete components while others used integrated circuits. The discrete component ones usually included what looked like high-wattage thermisters, and usually showed signs of extreme heat around those, like brown or charred circuit boards. The integrated circuit ones had no obvious visual signs of failure. Unfortunately I didn't record how long each bulb lasted, so I can't say whether the type of electronics correlated with the life of the bulb.

As for LED bulbs, I recently bought a couple on impulse at Batteries+, which had a rebate offer at the time. They may still be offering rebates.

The 12W (60W-equivalent, 810 lumens) ones cost under $20 with a (mail-in) rebate of $7 each. I think the rebate was available for most of the bulbs they were selling, but the amount varied and they had to query the POS terminal to tell me what it was for each type of bulb.

There was a pretty wide range of prices for what appeared to be equivalent bulbs from different manufacturers. I bought the cheapest 60W replacements. I don't know if that was a good deal or not.

I _did_ remember to mark the installation date on the one I'm using, this time. They claim a life of 36+ years @ 3 hrs/day, so it may be a while (hopefully) before I can tell you how long they last. These are are only rated down to -4°F, so probably not good for outside use. Maybe the more expensive ones might have a lower temperature range.

On Sunday, April 14, 2013 1:06:26 PM UTC-5, Tom Gralewicz wrote:

I have had mixed luck with both CFL and LED bulbs in outdoor application.

For it it has been porch lights.

I had one CFL that lasted over 15 years, on every night and others that didn't last 1 year.

Same with cheap LED bulbs (ones bought 5 years ago, not the current generation.)

On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Brent Bublitz wrote:

CFLs are not good for outdoors in Wisconsin, no matter what your fixture or housing. I would use LED with a simple battery circuit.

[David Buggs]

How about this?   12V input and waterproof to boot

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Home-10W-Pure-White-LED-Flood-Wash-Underwater-Light-Lamp-900-1000LM-6500-7000K-/161007381451?emailtemplateid=57473424&ssPageName=ADME:B:SEMK:US:LISTG&sellerid=OT1C29eGPzShIODsvl8DJQ==&buyerid=FpRekKD1aqAOFAQYhVVAIQ==&category=20706&refid=store

Buggs

--

[Jack'D]

With a fixture like that, your most optimal lighting situation is with a directional source that points down.  Obviously there's a reflector there so most of the light that would spill out the sides will get bounced around and eventual some of it will make it's way out.  In either situation (LED or CFL), you'll be removing or replacing the ballast.

For LED sources, something like these panels would probably be optimal:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/free-shipping-118mm-12W-R7S-led-light-warm-white-with-daylight-white-cold-white-smd-3014/732650324.html
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-1pcs-Lot-18W-110V-220V-magnetic-LED-ceiling-board-panel-circular-tube-lights-replace/599744879.html
http://www.aliexpress.com/category/200002295/led-panel-lights/1.html?g=y&needQuery=n

If you're willing to do more fabrication and futzing, you could also go with a couple high-watt chips and a ballast, like here:
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/LED-products/204613_211241205.html

Something like this "corn cob" lamp would work, but you'll lose a bit of output due to the reflector:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/E27-led-bulb-lamp-15W-110V-200V-263-LED-1300M-White-Warm-White-Corn-Light/708679752.html

If you go CFL, you'll usually have to replace the lamp socket and remove the ballast.  You can then either use a bulb with an integrated ballast or get a separate electronic ballast.  If you have a choice and there is also a reflector on the top of the lamp housing, mounting the bulb horizontally will optimize your light output.

Efficiency-wise, modern fluorescent bulbs with electronic ballasts and good housings are just as good as LEDs.  HPS is usually a bit better and LPS is significantly better than LEDs, but not widely available.  There's a good chart here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_light

If you're really concerned about life expectancy and durability, I think your best bet is to try to find some UL-approved outdoor/industrial fixtures that don't need to be modified.

-Jack

[rod...@rodneydickman.com]

The fixtures I have are outdoor commercial units. I can stay with leaving them HPS. I was hoping I could change them to a super long lasting LED light so I do not have to service the high up ones as often. Some of my lights are mounted fairly high and are tough to work on. I know there is a lot of low grade LED stuff out there. I was wondering if there was some very high quality LED stuff out there.

My lights are Ruud. Made in Racine. Ruud is very much into making LED street lights now. So high quality stuff I'm sure is out there.

Rodney

[Jack'D]

In that case, check out these guys: http://www.e-conolight.com/led-products.html

They're located in Wisconsin (Sturtevant) and have pretty solid/reasonable pricing.  The lighting I've purchased from them has all been good quality.

[rod...@rodneydickman.com]

I see they sell complete lights with the housings. I want to keep my old housing and retrofit an LED into it. I have many lights around my house and I want to keep them all the same.

Rodney

[Jack'D]

There is an answer, but I'm not sure you'll like it.  LED retrofits for HID fixtures:
http://www.myledlightingguide.com/LED_Retro_Kits-list.aspx
http://usa-leds.com/led-retrofits/
http://www.shineretrofits.com/indoor-lighting-t8-t5ho-4-6-8-10-12-lamp-linear-fluorescent-miro4-mirror-aluminum-low-high-bay-energy-efficient-lighting-fixtures/led-high-bay-fixtures-and-retrofit-kits.html

My assumption is that the extreme markups reflect the marketability of these solutions to government who need to replace large amounts of lamps and are easily gouged.