Camp lake SOI 1-8-11

[Jeff Stephens]

Jeff Burns got some real nice photos yesterday and has already posted them in the Mil’Vin SOI album…

Check’em out:

http://www.vinmoto.org/gallery/v/VinMoto-Events-Pictures/MilVin-Events/Studs+on+Ice/Album+Studs+on+Ice+2010_11/

 

 

   Godffery

 

[John Boettcher]

Great stuff, Mr Burns! Do you take donations? Let me know! JB

[sarge Schmidt-Rubin]

from dieseljo forum

"Cops came out to camp lake yesterday, its only a matter of time as the town is talking about doing a ordinance to outlaw bikes on the lake, i bet next year it will get passed. It didnt help that there was alot of vintage bikes with low and high pipes - NO FRIGGIN MUFFLER - FRIGGIN STRAIGHT PIPES! COme on guys WTF! I just dont understand how some people think that it is acceptable to ride a bike like that, lake, street, track. Thell be the 1st ones to complain when they get shut down and there is nowhere to ride any more or they have to drive 4 hrs to ride. "

"You were a sweet girl
When you were a cheerleader
But I think you're much better now"



 

---

From: jstep...@wi.rr.com
To: milvi...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [MilVinMoto] Camp lake SOI 1-8-11
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 08:34:31 -0600

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[John Boettcher]

Jeez, sure didn't notice seeing you there, SARGE! You sure do have an opinion though, JB

from dieseljo forum "Cops came out to camp lake yesterday, its only a matter of time as the town is talking about doing a ordinance to outlaw bikes on the lake, i bet next year it will get passed. It didnt help that there was alot of vintage bikes with low and high pipes - NO FRIGGIN MUFFLER - FRIGGIN STRAIGHT PIPES! COme on guys WTF! I just dont understand how some people think that it is acceptable to ride a bike like that, lake, street, track. Thell be the 1st ones to complain when they get shut down and there is nowhere to ride any more or they have to drive 4 hrs to ride. "

[Bob Burns]

JB's open-header SR500 was nowhere near as loud as the four or five modern four stroke MX bikes with the race pipes that were there.

Dale, the man with the plow, was the one that talked to the cops.  Some of us are currently putting our heads together and figuring out how to best approach this situation.

I think the first thing that needs to happen is we all need to put some sort of muffler on our bikes.  Because if you don't have one you look like you're part of the problem.  Even if you're not.

Nice bunch of threads they've got going over there.  I like the guy who's upset about how we wouldn't share the track we plowed.  I guess he doesn't know that Dale doesn't read the list.  I wonder if he's the same guy that decided to start running the track backwards when the guy with the plow is only set up for left turns?

-Bob

[Eric Todd]

Salem Township meeting are on the second monday of the month....that would be 2 days ago.  I did not go..but some did. Supposedly the board ruled no more motorcycles on any lake in Salem Township.  $100 fine for being on the lake will be issued.  I dont know this to be fact but its the rumor.  I guess a call to the town hall is in order.
http://www.townofsalem.net/

[sarge Schmidt-Rubin]

"JB's open-header SR500 was nowhere near as loud as the four or five modern four stroke MX bikes with the race pipes that were there."
 

I dont doubt  that thats true

seems to be trouble everywhere with sound.
 







 

---

Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 19:59:54 -0800
From: big...@ameritech.net
Subject: Re: [MilVinMoto] Camp lake SOI 1-8-11
To: ratg...@yahoo.com; jstep...@wi.rr.com; milvi...@googlegroups.com; sargeschm...@hotmail.com

[sarge Schmidt-Rubin]

not my opinion, hence the quotation marks

"You were a sweet girl
When you were a cheerleader
But I think you're much better now"



 

---

Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 19:30:47 -0800
From: ratg...@yahoo.com
Subject: RE: [MilVinMoto] Camp lake SOI 1-8-11
To: jstep...@wi.rr.com; milvi...@googlegroups.com; sargeschm...@hotmail.com

[Milazzo83]

Why must lake property owners hate on ice riders? Our bike are not
any louder, muffled or not, than there jet skis. This country used
to be free....

On Jan 13, 12:59 am, sarge Schmidt-Rubin <sargeschmidt-

ru...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> not my opinion, hence the quotation marks
>
> "You were a sweet girl
> When you were a cheerleader
> But I think you're much better now"
>

> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 19:30:47 -0800

> From: ratgu...@yahoo.com

> Subject: RE: [MilVinMoto] Camp lake SOI 1-8-11

> To: jstephe...@wi.rr.com; milvi...@googlegroups.com; sargeschmidt-ru...@hotmail.com

>
> Jeez, sure didn't notice seeing you there, SARGE!
> You sure do have an opinion though,
> JB
>
> from dieseljo forum
>
> "Cops came out to camp lake yesterday, its only a matter of time as the town is talking about doing a ordinance to outlaw bikes on the lake, i bet next year it will get passed. It didnt help that there was alot of vintage bikes with low and high pipes - NO FRIGGIN MUFFLER - FRIGGIN STRAIGHT PIPES! COme on guys WTF! I just dont understand how some people think that it is acceptable to ride a bike like that, lake, street, track. Thell be the 1st ones to complain when they get shut down and there is nowhere to ride any more or they have to drive 4 hrs to ride. "
>
>  unsubscribe from this group, send email to MilVinMoto-...@googlegroups.com
>

> Visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/MilVinMoto

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[Eric Todd]

The ice bikes are MUCH louder than Jetskis and snowmobiles. 
IM not sure Camp Lake is a now wake lake....but  im not sure..I have fished it a few times...but i cant remember
et

[Bob Burns]

Damn these winter work days.  Being on constant "stand by" leaves me with too much time to look stuff up.

 

According to the current regulations of the Town of Salem you are not allowed to create a wake within 200 feet of shore on Camp Lake.  Interestingly there's also a regulation about not operating a car on ice over 10mph if you are within 200 feet of a building or person.  The rules do not say anything about motorcycles in particular.

 

Not yet anyway.

 

Lots of interesting stuff on the Dieseljo forum.  There's a few folks over there who are not VinMoto fans.  Apparently all the vintage bikes running straight pipes are what's causing the problem.  They don't make any mention of the modern 4 stroke MX bikes being loud.

 

Loud pipes risk rights.

 

-Bob

[Gary...@aol.com]

Loud pipes risk rights except if there attach to a H-D.

[Moto Fugazzi]

If loud pipes save lives, why don't insurance companies off discounts
for them?

Anyway, as far as the property owners go, imagine if people were in
your back yard every weekend using chain saws for 4 or 5 hours. I'm
sure you would get sick of it in a hurry.
I'm sure most of them paid quite a bit for some of those houses. If
they wanted noise, they'd live in the city.

Years ago I lived across the street from a biker bar. It got annoying
quickly, especially at bar close.

[RickL]

I posted this on the DesielJo board:

 

Guys,   I run the ChiVinMoto list and can get the MilVinMoto guys inn the loop too.  We too noticed that there were some guys running open pipes.  Funny thing is that some bikes with mufflers seemed louder than some of the bikes with just a header hanging off it.  JB's SR500 single was remarkably quiet with no muffler.  I think most of us agree that putting anything on just to change the bad impression it makes is a good idea.

Dale is the guy who plows the track.  He and Ed Zender have been running their BSAs and Triumphs at Camp Lake for years.  Back in the 90's Ed would invite us up but it took a while for us to realize how what good clean fun this is.  Dale talked to the sheriff and if I understand correctly he is going to talk to some folks from the town of Salem.

When Dale pulled everyone together to talk about the noise complaint he said something like : "You guys with loud bikes know who you are".  After talking to some of the other vintage guys and reading your posts here I think I don't agree with Dale.  What I do think we all agree on is we need to see what we can do to get things quieter.

BigBob talked to Dale about getting a digital sound pressure level meter.  We have it ordered.  We figure we can stand next to the track and get quantative data on how loud everyone's bikes are.  If we see that a certain bike is a lot louder than others we need to get that owner to take action.  We are also going to see if we can get a sound level on a sled and other motorized stuff on the lake.

We are hoping that we can defuse noise complaints by making some good faith efforts to get along with the folks who live with in ear shot of where we like to ride on Sunday.   I've also heard that there are noise complaints at Lilley lake and some others west of Milwaukee.

As far as us being vintage guys and you guys being modern guys, remember that we like all kinds of motorcycles.  Many of us own modern street, dirt, etc bikes as well as the rusty old junk.  As far as riding together seems like all the two wheeled machines get along OK.  You hear crabbing about the quads, but that is only that they take up more track and are faster than us!

I'm not much for these on line bulletin boards, but I will keep an eye on this to follow the discussion.  If you want to ping me directly I am Vin...@comcast.net

Cheers
Rick

[Moped Graham]

I've been following this and i'm still kindof confused. so did they
pass an ordinance or not? Seems to me like it would mostly be a DNR
issue... the same regulations for noise level that apply to
snowmobiles, quads and bikes on the state trails should probably apply
here (boats for that matter). I think the state laws regarding 'open
access' to lakes and such put things like restricting motor use in the
hands of the DNR not municipalities. Sound travels further over water
so i can see people complaining but its the same kindof thing we deal
with regarding the mopeds.

people think we are obscenely loud until we pull up next to a harley
and i cant even hear my own engine... something about the high pitched
whine of a well tuned 2 stroke really chaps the balls of the cross
country skiing- 'Whole-foods market' set. I live 2 doors off brady
street behind the Up & Under pub... so i get crabby whenever people
chap my balls about the 'peds.

but i digress. I was hoping to come watch the madness this weekend if
it is still going down. I would have to check with my boss but i might
be able to borrow the sound pressure meter from work if it is needed
urgently and the one you guys bought doesnt come in. Of course people
complaining is a pretty subjective thing. You cant go to a lake-home
owner with facts and decibels and such and expect them to say 'oh i
see your 2 stroke is way quieter than the other guys four stroke, so
even though it annoys the hell out of me, i guess its ok'

Anyhow, good luck! Hopefully this doesn't get shut down... hard to
believe this much fun can be had this cheaply and still be legal!

Graham

> follow the discussion.  If you want to ping me directly I am VinM...@comcast.net

>
> Cheers
> Rick
>
> From: milvi...@googlegroups.com [mailto:milvi...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
> Of sarge Schmidt-Rubin
> Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 9:10 PM
> To: jstephe...@wi.rr.com; milvi...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: [MilVinMoto] Camp lake SOI 1-8-11
>
> from dieseljo forum
>
> "Cops came out to camp lake yesterday, its only a matter of time as the town is
> talking about doing a ordinance to outlaw bikes on the lake, i bet next year it
> will get passed. It didnt help that there was alot of vintage bikes with low and
> high pipes - NO FRIGGIN MUFFLER - FRIGGIN STRAIGHT PIPES! COme on guys WTF! I
> just dont understand how some people think that it is acceptable to ride a bike
> like that, lake, street, track. Thell be the 1st ones to complain when they get
> shut down and there is nowhere to ride any more or they have to drive 4 hrs to
> ride. "
>
> "You were a sweet girl
> When you were a cheerleader
> But I think you're much better now"
>
>   _____  
>

> From: jstephe...@wi.rr.com
> To: milvi...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [MilVinMoto] Camp lake SOI 1-8-11
> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 08:34:31 -0600
>
> Jeff Burns got some real nice photos yesterday and has already posted them in the

> Mil'Vin SOI album.
>
> Check'em out:
>
> http://www.vinmoto.org/gallery/v/VinMoto-Events-Pictures/MilVin-Event...
> ce/Album+Studs+on+Ice+2010_11/

>
>    Godffery
>
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[joec...@aol.com]

Graham and others,

 

Graham you are right on when you say the sound thing is subjective.  Thanks for making that point.  That's why we gotta be careful with noise, especially since lake landowners don't have to make a good case, and can be subjective if they bring their noise complaints to the Town Board asking for legislation to return their own private Idaho to quiet. 

 

So, for those (not Graham) on this thread who are trying to maintain that an ice bike is quieter than this, or that, your point, even if you were right, is moot.  Our arguments about what is "noisier than us" is meaningless to a Town Board who has a taxpaying resident who wants noise reduced.  Doh!   

 

Town Boards hear residents' grievances.  Ice bikers are not the Town residents.  So, legislation is easily passed banning bikes or vehicles if there are complainers - Simple as that.  Whine as much as you want about being "right" or "quieter", or losing freedoms, but you've lost.  Some examples; Upper and Lower Nemahbin = no vehicles at all, Pewaukee L = 40mph speed limit, Fowler L = no motorcycles.  Is Camp next?  Okauchee?  Un-abated noise will always bring complaints.  It's seen as rude and obnoxious by lake residents and Town Boards, and our opinions are moot when those two entities are meeting. 

 

FYI, after I had a chat initiated by me with the DNR Warden last Saturday, I learned that the DNR has nothing to do with unlicensed bikes on frozen lakes.  They are only there to make sure that state regs are followed for fishing, four wheelers and snowmobiles.  Think about it.....we have no state reg's, no license, no registration, no fees, no rules, basically, no restrictions from the state  (isn't that the freedom that somebody mentioned?) which is good and it's bad.  That means that any one of us can show up with any pipe we want!  We can tear up and down the lake at any hour too, with or without a muffler.  We can back the bike up to any lake house we want, aim the pipes at the shore, and nearly blow the house's windows out!!!  AHHH the FREEDOM!!!! WOOOO HOOOOO!!!!!!  

 

Not!

 

So, sounds like i'm pissed off and I'm not.  :)  I'm just wanting us all to see that if we don't regulate ourselves, someone else will do it for us.  I wanna continue on the ice.  And right now, OK Pond and OK Lake are looking "good" as far as noise and complaints.  Ice riding is getting popular though.  And, we've got a bar owner who has a devil may care attitude about all this, but, he did mention that it's really loud in his house!  Some of us, (maybe me?) have offensive sound levels coming from our motorcycles.  In order to head off any legislation, or any visits from the constables, one step I am gonna take is to tactfully gather bike sound data at Okauchee so we can figure out what steps we need to take, if any, to remain good neighbors. 

 

I saw and used an Iphone app to measure sound with 2 nights ago.  It worked okay.  Somebody download it and bring it on Sat if you have one.  

 

Also, I saw some $100 - $200 handheld sound testers online, and I wanna buy one.  Anyone know about these?  We don't need much, only one that will work for us on a weekly basis and will last a couple years, maybe more.

 

See you Saturday at the Hideaway Bar at Okauchee Lake, Town of Oconomowoc, 10:30am till 4.  If your bike may be loud, bring a means to make it quieter.

 

Joeyhaupt

        

Visit this group at  http://groups.google.com/group/MilVinMoto

[Moto Fugazzi]

Radio Shack has SPL/DB meters. $49.99
http://www.radioshack.com/search/index.jsp?kwCatId=&kw=decibel&origkw=decibel&sr=1

I have an iphone app for this, and it seems to work fine. I tested it
last year when I was in NYC. 10 ladies at a restaurant measured
measured 109db, and the subway was only 102db. Go figure. Them ladies
was loud.

[John Boettcher]

It has nothing to do with actual decibels! Why is everyone wasting their time with this? It's perception of noise. Just walk/ride around the lake and listen! Could it be annoying? That's all it's about. We're not after legal limits. If you lived there, would it bother you?
JB

[Milazzo83]

As Joeyhaupt has stated ice bikes have NO regulations! NONE! So why
not keep it that way? Or would some of you prefer that big brother
starts putting regulations on you? Why not have posted speed limit's,
equipment requirements, and some type of licensing requirements for
bikes too? With matching fines for each violation naturally! You can
pay the fine for the rest of us.

Myself and about 20 other vintage riders were in danger of loosing our
lake about 6 years ago. Luckily none of of were spineless and just
slunk away into the shadows. We had two riders who were residents on
the town (not lake property owners) who were ably to attend the town
board meetings and voice our opinions and fight to keep the rights we
already have. In doing so we rallied up a large number of other lake
property owners who took our side because they enjoyed watching the
bikes and had NO complaints about the noise. In the end we found out
that the squeaky wheel was one single person. ONE GUY! An entire town
board was going to pass regulations to ban motorcycles from there lake
because one person was upset. We still ride that lake every weekend
and my Honda 500T still has open TT pipes.

The sound meter is a good idea but it is only going to be a small bit
of your argument. You already have at least one upset and vocal lake
property owner and tax payer. Just remember that it's one, two,
three, maybe four upset out of a hundred ish? houses on the lake. Get
the bar owner to go to the meeting and explain the the bikes help
business by providing entertainment, have the patrons of the bar who
are town citizens attend the meeting and ask any friends they have to
help out, hang up a few fliers at gas stations, grocery stores, and
other bars in the area to urge other town citizens or lake owners who
enjoy watching the bikes to attend the meeting. It also helps to keep
good relations with the fisherman of the lake. Word will spread and
the masses who still think fun should be legal will out number the
cranky old squeaky wheels. The board will be shocked at the turn out
and even more surprised at the those in favor of the ice bikes. If
you don't go to the meetings your voice will not be heard and that is
the only place it will count. If you're not willing to stand up for
what you have start taking the screws out of you tires now. I doubt
you'll be invited to the next lake...

On Jan 14, 5:21 pm, joecha...@aol.com wrote:
> Graham and others,
>
> Graham you are right on when you say the sound thing is subjective.  Thanks for making that point.  That's why we gotta be careful with noise, especially since lake landowners don't have to make a good case, and can be subjective if they bring their noise complaints to the Town Board asking for legislation to return their own private Idaho to quiet.  
>
> So, for those (not Graham) on this thread who are trying to maintain that an ice bike is quieter than this, or that, your point, even if you were right, is moot.  Our arguments about what is "noisier than us" is meaningless to a Town Board who has a taxpaying resident who wants noise reduced.  Doh!  

> Town Boards hear residents' grievances.  Ice bikers are not the Town residents.  So, legislation is easily passed banning bikes or vehicles if there are complainers - Simple as that.  Whine as much as you want about being "right" or "quieter", or losing freedoms, but you've lost.  Some examples; Upper and Lower Nemahbin = no vehicles at all, Pewaukee L = 40mph speed limit, Fowler L = no motorcycles.  Is Camp next?  Okauchee?  Un-abated noise will always bring complaints.  It's seen as rude and obnoxious by lake residents and Town Boards, and our opinions are moot when those two entities are meeting.  
>
> FYI, after I had a chat initiated by me with the DNR Warden last Saturday, I learned that the DNR has nothing to do with unlicensed bikes on frozen lakes.  They are only there to make sure that state regs are followed for fishing, four wheelers and snowmobiles.  Think about it.....we have no state reg's, no license, no registration, no fees, no rules, basically, no restrictions from the state  (isn't that the freedom that somebody mentioned?) which is good and it's bad.  That means that any one of us can show up with any pipe we want!  We can tear up and down the lake at any hour too, with or without a muffler.  We can back the bike up to any lake house we want, aim the pipes at the shore, and nearly blow the house's windows out!!!  AHHH the FREEDOM!!!! WOOOO HOOOOO!!!!!!  
>
> Not!
>
> So, sounds like i'm pissed off and I'm not.  :)  I'm just wanting us all to see that if we don't regulate ourselves, someone else will do it for us.  I wanna continue on the ice.  And right now, OK Pond and OK Lake are looking "good" as far as noise and complaints.  Ice riding is getting popular though.  And, we've got a bar owner who has a devil may care attitude about all this, but, he did mention that it's really loud in his house!  Some of us, (maybe me?) have offensive sound levels coming from our motorcycles.  In order to head off any legislation, or any visits from the constables, one step I am gonna take is to tactfully gather bike sound data at Okauchee so we can figure out what steps we need to take, if any, to remain good neighbors.
>
> I saw and used an Iphone app to measure sound with 2 nights ago.  It worked okay.  Somebody download it and bring it on Sat if you have one.  
>
> Also, I saw some $100 - $200 handheld sound testers online, and I wanna buy one.  Anyone know about these?  We don't need much, only one that will work for us on a weekly basis and will last a couple years, maybe more.
>
> See you Saturday at the Hideaway Bar at Okauchee Lake, Town of Oconomowoc, 10:30am till 4.  If your bike may be loud, bring a means to make it quieter.
>
> Joeyhaupt
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Moped Graham <motzi...@gmail.com>
> To: MilVinMoto - Milwaukee Vintage Motorcyclists <milvi...@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Fri, Jan 14, 2011 10:22 am
> Subject: [MilVinMoto] Re: Camp lake SOI 1-8-11
>
> I've been following this and i'm still kindof confused. so did they

> ass an ordinance or not? Seems to me like it would mostly be a DNR

> ssue... the same regulations for noise level that apply to

> nowmobiles, quads and bikes on the state trails should probably apply

> ere (boats for that matter). I think the state laws regarding 'open

> ccess' to lakes and such put things like restricting motor use in the

> ands of the DNR not municipalities. Sound travels further over water

> o i can see people complaining but its the same kindof thing we deal

> ith regarding the mopeds.
> people think we are obscenely loud until we pull up next to a harley

> nd i cant even hear my own engine... something about the high pitched

> hine of a well tuned 2 stroke really chaps the balls of the cross

> ountry skiing- 'Whole-foods market' set. I live 2 doors off brady

> treet behind the Up & Under pub... so i get crabby whenever people

> hap my balls about the 'peds.
> but i digress. I was hoping to come watch the madness this weekend if

> t is still going down. I would have to check with my boss but i might

> e able to borrow the sound pressure meter from work if it is needed

> rgently and the one you guys bought doesnt come in. Of course people

> omplaining is a pretty subjective thing. You cant go to a lake-home

> wner with facts and decibels and such and expect them to say 'oh i

> ee your 2 stroke is way quieter than the other guys four stroke, so

> ven though it annoys the hell out of me, i guess its ok'
> Anyhow, good luck! Hopefully this doesn't get shut down... hard to

> elieve this much fun can be had this cheaply and still be legal!
> Graham
>

> n Jan 13, 4:50 pm, "RickL" <VinM...@comcast.net> wrote:
>  I posted this on the DesielJo board:
>
>  Guys,   I run the ChiVinMoto list and can get the MilVinMoto guys inn the loop
>  too.  We too noticed that there were some guys running open pipes.  Funny

> hing

>  is that some bikes with mufflers seemed louder than some of the bikes with

> ust a
>  header hanging off it.  JB's SR500 single was remarkably quiet with no

> uffler.

>  I think most of us agree that putting anything on just to change the bad
>  impression it makes is a good idea.
>
>  Dale is the guy who plows the track.  He and Ed Zender have been running their
>  BSAs and Triumphs at Camp Lake for years.  Back in the 90's Ed would invite us

> p

>  but it took a while for us to realize how what good clean fun this is.  Dale
>  talked to the sheriff and if I understand correctly he is going to talk to

> ome

>  folks from the town of Salem.
>
>  When Dale pulled everyone together to talk about the noise complaint he said
>  something like : "You guys with loud bikes know who you are".  After talking

> o

>  some of the other vintage guys and reading your posts here I think I don't

> gree

>  with Dale.  What I do think we all agree on is we need to see what we can do

> o

>  get things quieter.
>
>  BigBob talked to Dale about getting a digital sound pressure level meter.  We
>  have it ordered.  We figure we can stand next to the track and get quantative
>  data on how loud everyone's bikes are.  If we see that a certain bike is a lot
>  louder than others we need to get that owner to take action.  We are also

> oing

>  to see if we can get a sound level on a sled and other motorized stuff on the
>  lake.
>
>  We are hoping that we can defuse noise complaints by making some good faith
>  efforts to get along with the folks who live with in ear shot of where we like

> o

>  ride on Sunday.   I've also heard that there are noise complaints at Lilley

> ake

>  and some others west of Milwaukee.
>
>  As far as us being vintage guys and you guys being modern guys, remember that

> e

>  like all kinds of motorcycles.  Many of us own modern street, dirt, etc bikes

> s

>  well as the rusty old junk.  As far as riding together seems like all the two
>  wheeled machines get along OK.  You hear crabbing about the quads, but that is
>  only that they take up more track and are faster than us!
>
>  I'm not much for these on line bulletin boards, but I will keep an eye on this

> o

>  follow the discussion.  If you want to ping me directly I am

> inM...@comcast.net

>
>  Cheers
>  Rick
>
>  From: milvi...@googlegroups.com [mailto:milvi...@googlegroups.com] On
> ehalf
>  Of sarge Schmidt-Rubin
>  Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 9:10 PM
>  To: jstephe...@wi.rr.com; milvi...@googlegroups.com
>  Subject: RE: [MilVinMoto] Camp lake SOI 1-8-11
>
>  from dieseljo forum
>
>  "Cops came out to camp lake yesterday, its only a matter of time as the town

> s

>  talking about doing a ordinance to outlaw bikes on the lake, i bet next year

> t

>  will get passed. It didnt help that there was alot of vintage bikes with low

> nd

>  high pipes - NO FRIGGIN MUFFLER - FRIGGIN STRAIGHT PIPES! COme on guys WTF! I
>  just dont understand how some people think that it is acceptable to ride a

> ike

>  like that, lake, street, track. Thell be the 1st ones to complain when they

> et

>  shut down and there is nowhere to ride any more or they have to drive 4 hrs to
>  ride. "
>
>  "You were a sweet girl
>  When you were a cheerleader
>  But I think you're much better now"
>
>    _____  
>
>  From: jstephe...@wi.rr.com
>  To: milvi...@googlegroups.com
>  Subject: [MilVinMoto] Camp lake SOI 1-8-11
>  Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 08:34:31 -0600
>
>  Jeff Burns got some real nice photos yesterday and has already posted them in

> he

>  Mil'Vin SOI album.
>
>  Check'em out:
>
>  http://www.vinmoto.org/gallery/v/VinMoto-Events-Pictures/MilVin-Event...
>  ce/Album+Studs+on+Ice+2010_11/
>
>     Godffery
>
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> ...
>
> read more »

[Bob Burns]

A few points to consider:

1)We're talking about two different lakes. Okauchee has a tavern with a bike
friendly owner. Camp does not currently have a tavern.

2)Nobody is thinking that measuring sound is going to be the end of the
discussion. It's a tool. Using this tool we can remove any subjective judgment
from the situation and say "Bike A is clearly producing more noise than Bike B.
Bike B might want to stick a muffler on that open head pipe. Bike C is louder
than A or B. Bike C needs to come up with an idea on how to fix that."

2b)If we don't police ourselves someone will be happy to come along and do
it for us.

2c)Sound waves can do weird things.

3)There is a Public Hearing for the Town of Salem (Camp Lake is in the Town of
Salem) this coming week. We will have representation at that hearing. Our
representatives are are soft-spoken, mild mannered gentlemen who know how to be
polite under adverse conditions. In other words I won't be there.

4)Open TT pipes on a CB500T? What did you do to the carb? I've never worked on
one but I know a few guys that have them and those carbs are supposed to be a
pain in the ass.

-Bob

> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/MilVinMoto

>`
>

[Husabergchamp]

The Wisconsin Off Highway Motorcycle Association has been working with
state legislators to start an OHM registration program in the state in
order to raise funds for single track trails, off-road parks, and also
access to ATV trails where the local land managers will allow it.
During those discussions we have talked to Gary Eddy, who is the head
DNR enforcement official for ATV and snowmobiles. Currently the DNR
has no jurisdiction over bikes on the ice. So, when they are called by
a municipality to address noise issues they have no legal
jurisdiction. IPlus the municipality is charged just to heave them
show up. Its currently up to local municipalities to write their own
regulations, which are hard to enforce, badly written, sometimes even
thrown out by the courts (MAOHVC vs. Town of Rhine).

HOWEVER: According to Gary Eddy the DNR will in the next year or two
gain enforcement rights on motorcycles on frozen waterways because of
all the noise complaints the past few years. Because we have not
regulated ourselves; The bikes are on their radar. At that time the
noise limit will be 96dBA, just like bikes are required when on the
dirt on DNR land. That is the same limit the ATV and snowmobiles
currently have.

This is just an FYI for you, so you all know it's coming. I'm not sure
how they will write the regulation, but I know for the dirt the DNR
expects to see a real muffler on a bike and not straight pipes. Plan
accordingly.

Alex Bub
WOHMA President
WOHVA Education Chairman
NOHVCC WI State Representative
Member WI Governors ORV Council.

> ...
>
> read more »

[Mark Flintrop]

I spent 26 years living on Little Muskego Lake when there were no regulations for speed, noise, type of vehicle/machine be it summer or winter. I understand both sides of this, as a long time lake resident and the owner of 117mph 700cc two-stroke snowmobile, a louder than hell 2stroke dirt bike, RD350, and multiple 4 stroke street bikes. I throw a silencer on the dirt bike when I ride the national forests up north, just out respect... What most people (city dwellers) are missing is the way sound carries over a lake. Summer is worse than winter because there is no snow on the lake but the principles are the same; Ever been camping and sitting on a calm lake? Speaking at normal volume one can hear a conversation clear on the other side of the lake. Now the snow helps dampen the sound a little in the winter but not much. Hang out on a lake on a quiet night, you'll quickly learn that there is next to no privacy when it comes to sound. I miss living on the lake but when the oval track for bikes and ATVs was right outside my front door it was annoying as can be, even for a gear head like me. Just have some courtesy for the folks that live there. Sound is subjective so You may not think your bike is loud, just remember that the sound carries much better over a lake than it does in your yard or in the city. And all these comparisons to H-Ds, etc don't carry a ton of weight in a town hall meeting but what if that Harley was just outside your front door revving its engine up and down for an entire afternoon, that would suck for anybody. Just have some respect, if the residents say its loud, then its loud. Just appreciate the fact that we do have multiple lakes to play on in this area. Spend the $50 bucks for a muffler or silencer or stop over at Farm and Fleet, the tractor section has a ton of bolt on's that will quiet things down a bit. See the excerpt below, there's a ton of real data available if you really don't believe any of this... ----------------------------------------- By Wayne Spivak, National Press Corps United States Coast Guard Auxiliary Have you ever tried shouting across a small lake? Easy, isn't it? How about when you've been water-skiing, and try to get the attention of the towboat? Found it impossible, didn't you??? Sound does and does not carry over water well. On calm lakes, bays, creeks, or in restricted visibility, sound carries exceptionally well. If you ever went camping around a lake, knowledgeable campers often would tell you to keep the noise down at night, since cool air, and a flat-water surface amplified the sound you were making, so that everyone on the lake heard you. According to Howard Shaw, Ph. D. and Cheryl Jackson Hall, Ph. D., "Experience suggests that sound, like light, travels (more or less) in straight lines. However, to the contrary, sound actually tends to curve downwards over a lake's surface." "Sound traveling along straight lines would disperse quickly into the space above the lake. Instead, sound that "should" rise up and be lost typically curves back down to the lake/ground level. Therefore, it sounds louder than it "should." This is a well-known and easily demonstrated observation, measurable out there on real lakes."........

[sarge Schmidt-Rubin]

lake koshkanong had one pissed off resident and he was appeased by an agreement not to ride in front of his house.
 
the track was moved to a  uninhabited section of the bay-so far so good
 
if they say you guys need to have sanctioned events to ride at speed...well...consider that as an option.

"You were a sweet girl
When you were a cheerleader
But I think you're much better now"



 

> Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 05:42:29 -0800
> From: big...@ameritech.net
> Subject: Re: [MilVinMoto] Re: Camp lake SOI 1-8-11
> To: donp...@gmail.com; milvi...@googlegroups.com

[John Boettcher]

No new photos from the last two weeks? JB

-- /`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`