Re: [Mifos-users] Loan Interest
Polly
The first installation was calculating the interest OK but with the consequent upgrades we noticed that we were loosing money but we are using it the way it is. I will forward this to the mifos users list for assistance.
Polly.
Polly,
This is Doug. This is the first loan we have ever tried and we seem to have something set to where Mifos “looses” one days interest. Here are the account details for this loan. Does any of this look different from your system?
Account details
Interest rules
Interest Rate Type: Flat
Interest rate: 15.0% APR
Interest deducted at disbursement : No
Repayment rules
Frequency of Installments: 1 Week(s)
Principal due on last installment: No
Grace Period Type: Grace on all repayments
No. of installments: 52 (Allowed Number of Installments: 2 - 104)
Grace period for repayments: 3 Installments
Source of fund: Non Donor
Also, here are our “Organizational Settings” is there anything in here that looks different from you and may cause this problem:
Organizational Settings
Fiscal year
Working days: Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday
Allow calendar definition for next year: 30 days before end of current year
Start of Week: Monday
Off days: Sunday
Meeting in case of a holiday: same_day
Locale
Country: GB
Language: EN
Accounting rules
Maximum Interest: 999.0
Minimum Interest: 0.0
Number of digits before decimal: 14
Number of digits after decimal for interest: 1
Number of digits before decimal for interest: 10
Number of interest days: 365
Currency Rounding Mode: HALF_UP
Initial Rounding Mode: HALF_UP
Final Rounding Mode: CEILING
Currencies
Currency: KES
Number of digits after decimal: 1
Final Round Off Multiple: 0.5
Initial Round Off Multiple: 0.5
Client rules
Center hierarchy exists: No
Groups allowed to apply for loans: Yes
Client can exist outside group: Yes
Name sequence: last_name, first_name, middle_name, second_last_name
Age check enabled: No
Minimum allowed age for new clients: 0
Maximum allowed age for new clients: 0
Additional family details required: No
Maximum number of family members: 20
Process flow / optional state
Client pending approval state enabled: Yes
Group pending approval state enabled: Yes
Loan disbursed to loan officer state enabled: Yes
Loan pending approval state enabled: Yes
Savings pending approval state enabled: Yes
Miscellaneous
Session timeout: 30 minutes
Number of days in advance the collection sheet should be generated: 1
Back dated transactions allowed: Yes
Group loan with individual monitoring (GLIM): No
Loan schedule independent of meeting (LSIM): No
From: SAMUEL MBITHI [mailto:samuel...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 1:44 PM
To: pgik...@jitegemea.co.ke
Cc: paul mburu; Douglas Kurz; Esther lemeta
Subject: Loan Interest
High Polly, Samuel from Mission of Hope International MEP is requesting you to offer an assistance with our system MIFOS
We are on progress of moving from old system to a new system MIFOS and we have a problem in calculating our interest on loan. The system is loosing interest for one day i.e a loan of sh 30000 rate of 15% period 1 year (52weeks) the total amount is 34500 but mifos is calculating it and gives us a total amount of 34498.
>From the above explanation we are loosing 0.04% in all our loans for all rates of (10% 6months 11.25% for 9months 7.5% 6months and 5% 3months)
secondly calculate a loan of 100,000/= using 15% one year period, our system MIFOS is giving us a less of sh 41
kindly help us on:
how to get the correct formula on flat interest in mifos please.
--
Best Regards
Polly Najori
Ryan Whitney
52 weeks != APR and Mifos calculates using APR. IE, you have your number of interest days set to 365 and 52 weeks is equal to 364 days so there is the one day of interest you are losing.
Please refer to this earlier thread on how to recalculate your interest rate to get the interest you are looking for = http://is.gd/ejsoS
Ryan
--
Ryan Whitney
Mifos Technical Program Manager
rwhi...@grameenfoundation.org
Mifos - Technology that Empowers Microfinance (www.mifos.org)
Our mission is to enable the poor, especially the poorest, to create a world without poverty.
<http://grameenfoundation.org/take-action/ingenuity-fund-challenge/>
P please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
Polly
From: Douglas Kurz <dougl...@gmail.com>
Date: 20 August 2010 12:39
Subject: RE: [Mifos-users] Loan Interest
To: Polly Gikonyo <pgik...@jitegemea.co.ke>
Cc: paul mburu <paul....@gmail.com>, SAMUEL MBITHI <samuel...@yahoo.com>, Esther lemeta <lemet...@yahoo.com>, pgik...@jitegemea.co.ke
Polly,
Thanks so much for forwarding this. We figured out the correct conversion to input the interest and have now entered the loans for all our pilot group. However, they will not disburse. I remember you mentioning there are some batch processing jobs that need to be run each night. I looked all over the mifos web site documentation, but did not see information on this. So a couple questions:
1. Is there some processes we should be running each evening that posts the financial transactions? Can you tell us what those are or where there is documentation about this?
2. Once we get this running, will it disburse based upon the disbursement date or the date on the server when the process runs? In other words, we have entered all active loans for the group (which goes back 8 months), so we want it to disburse based upon the disbursement date. Do we need to run the process once for each disbursement date or will a single run disburse all loans on the right date?
Blessings and thanks for your guidance.
Doug
From: Ryan Whitney
[mailto:rwhi...@grameenfoundation.org]
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 6:20 AM
To: mifos...@lists.sourceforge.net; Douglas Kurz
Cc: paul mburu; SAMUEL MBITHI; Esther lemeta; pgik...@jitegemea.co.ke
Subject: Re: [Mifos-users] Loan Interest
Ryan Whitney
Disbursals are not dependant on batch jobs and require users to enter in the disbursements, either through the loan detail page or the collection sheet entry.
The batch jobs do need to run each night, but for other purposes.
Ryan
On 8/23/10 16:16, "Polly" <polly....@gmail.com> wrote:
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Douglas Kurz <dougl...@gmail.com>
Date: 20 August 2010 12:39
Subject: RE: [Mifos-users] Loan Interest
To: Polly Gikonyo <pgik...@jitegemea.co.ke>
Cc: paul mburu <paul....@gmail.com>, SAMUEL MBITHI <samuel...@yahoo.com>, Esther lemeta <lemet...@yahoo.com>, pgik...@jitegemea.co.ke
Polly,
Thanks so much for forwarding this. We figured out the correct conversion to input the interest and have now entered the loans for all our pilot group. However, they will not disburse. I remember you mentioning there are some batch processing jobs that need to be run each night. I looked all over the mifos web site documentation, but did not see information on this. So a couple questions:
1. Is there some processes we should be running each evening that posts the financial transactions? Can you tell us what those are or where there is documentation about this?
2. Once we get this running, will it disburse based upon the disbursement date or the date on the server when the process runs? In other words, we have entered all active loans for the group (which goes back 8 months), so we want it to disburse based upon the disbursement date. Do we need to run the process once for each disbursement date or will a single run disburse all loans on the right date?
Blessings and thanks for your guidance.
Doug
From: Ryan Whitney [mailto:rwhi...@grameenfoundation.org]
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 6:20 AM
To: mifos...@lists.sourceforge.net; Douglas Kurz
Cc: paul mburu; SAMUEL MBITHI; Esther lemeta; pgik...@jitegemea.co.ke
Subject: Re: [Mifos-users] Loan Interest
Polly, Doug, and Samuel,
52 weeks != APR and Mifos calculates using APR. IE, you have your number of interest days set to 365 and 52 weeks is equal to 364 days so there is the one day of interest you are losing.
Please refer to this earlier thread on how to recalculate your interest rate to get the interest you are looking for = http://is.gd/ejsoS
Ryan
On 8/17/10 19:52, "Polly" <polly....@gmail.com <http://polly....@gmail.com> > wrote:
Doug, Samuel,
The first installation was calculating the interest OK but with the consequent upgrades we noticed that we were loosing money but we are using it the way it is. I will forward this to the mifos users list for assistance.
Polly.
Interest rules
Fiscal year
Douglas Kurz
We are just starting our deployment and are working with a small set of data (one group) to ensure our process works. Here is a brief summary of our approach to converting our data into mifos:
1. Enter clients as of one year ago (our maximum loan duration is one year).
2. Enter / Approve / Disburse the client’s active loans with the as of date of the date of disbursement
3. Enter a collection sheet for the first meeting in August that would include all the savings balances and loan payments up to that point in time.
4. Check reports to ensure correct balances and arrears reporting as of first week of August.
5. Simulate each week for the month of August for this pilot group by entering the collection sheet and entering any loans that were disbursed each week as it may have occurred. Run reports each “simulated week” to ensure correct balances and arrears.
6. If the above works, repeat steps #1-4 for an all groups for a loan officer.
7. Run this loan officer in parallel with current system for a one to three weeks.
8. Repeat #1-4 for the remaining groups/clients/loan officers.
9. Run in parallel with the current system.
10. When comfortable – decommission current system. Mifos is live!
Sorry for all that long introduction. Now I have a few questions/issues:
1. Any comments or concerns about this approach for data conversion, parallel and go-live?
2. We completed steps #1 and #2 without issues. But when we go to enter the first collection sheet for these groups with the balances for the first week in August (3 Aug 2010 to be exact) it will not allow us. The collection sheet comes up but the date is 15 Dec 2009. Therefore, only one of the loans we entered in step #2 is there (because it was disbursed before that date). Why is it giving us 15 Dec 2009? How do we get it to allow us to enter 3 Aug 2010 as the first collection sheet?
3. I know one problem we will have with the above deployment is loan cycle. Despite the fact that we have many clients in their 3rd, 4th and even 5th loan cycle, everyone in Mifos will say cycle 1. Is there a way to correct this or do we need to live with it?
Thank you for the help.
Doug Kurz
Missions of Hope, International
Douglas Kurz
Douglas Kurz
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John Woodlock
Ryan Whitney
I believe John may have answered the technical issue. This approach is ok,
although we have come up with a way to migrate "opening balances" for loans
and savings. You can download our most recent document on it here:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/106137/Mifos%20-%20Opening%20Balances%20Data%20Migra
tion%20Method.zip
In there, I believe it also details how to set the loan counter for clients.
But I can outline it here as well:
1. Go to client detail page
2. Scroll to bottom and click on "View Summarized Historical Data"
3. click on "Add/Edit Historical Data"
4. Enter in your base Loan cycle number (Should not include the current loan
you are migrating)
5. Click Preview and then Submit
Viola, you have set the client's loan cycle counter. To note, this is for
the aggregated loan cycle counter and does not apply to any specific loan
product.
Lastly, for more ideas and information on migrating onto mifos, search our
mailing list archives: http://groups.google.com/group/mifosusers
Cheers,
Ryan
--
Ryan Whitney
Mifos Technical Program Manager
rwhi...@grameenfoundation.org
Mifos - Technology that Empowers Microfinance (www.mifos.org)
Our mission is to enable the poor, especially the poorest, to create a world
without poverty.
<http://grameenfoundation.org/take-action/ingenuity-fund-challenge/>
P please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
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Douglas Kurz
John and Ryan,
Thank you. Both of your solutions worked. Now I have a different issue. We progressed in our implementation plan to step #5. So we were able to enter all the opening balances for our test group for all loans and savings and everything matched with the current system. However, when we tried to enter the first collection sheet, we could not enter many loan payments because clients were “Paid ahead.” Let me give an example:
Elizabeth Ayuma has loan of for 39 weeks with payments of 713 per week. She has been paying 800 shillings per week. When we tried to enter the first “real” collection sheet where Elizabeth paid 800 shillings, there is no where to put this because the system has paid this loan ahead and does not think anything is due.
Because of the way our loan officers manage their groups, most loans are being paid ahead so this problem occurs for more than 80% of the clients. I realize that the system allows us to apply a payment on an individual loan. But I really do not want to do this because:
1. The time it takes to input collection sheets will dramatically increase.
2. The collection sheets will now rarely match the deposit slips eliminating a very good checks-and-balances in the system.
Is there a way to get the collection sheet to show a “0” amount due for loans paid ahead so we could input all collections made at the meeting?
Thanks for your help,
Doug
John Woodlock
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Douglas Kurz
John,
Yes. That is our issue. I guess my concern is that the issue was created on 3 Aug and is still unassigned. I am new to this open source software and how the process works. Does this wait until someone volunteers to fix this problem? Are there developers that will work on this at some point? If so, is there any way to tell when?
Thanks,
Polly
Ed Cable
containing our approaching to manually migrating open balances as the
link got truncated.
Here's a shortened functioning link:
Ed
On Sep 15, 6:16 am, Polly <polly.giko...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Doug,
>
> This is also an issue that we faced when we upgraded. I guess the issue will
> be fixed in the next release depending on the vote? As you can see it's
> increasing the time used in data entry, I had raised this issue around
> August.
>
> Polly
>
> On 15/09/2010, Douglas Kurz <douglask...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > John,
>
> > Yes. That is our issue. I guess my concern is that the issue was created on
> > 3 Aug and is still unassigned. I am new to this open source software and how
> > the process works. Does this wait until someone volunteers to fix this
> > problem? Are there developers that will work on this at some point? If so,
> > is there any way to tell when?
>
> > Thanks,
>
> > Doug
>
> > *From:* John Woodlock [mailto:john.woodl...@gmail.com]
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 15, 2010 1:32 PM
>
> > *To:* mifos-us...@lists.sourceforge.net
> > *Subject:* Re: [Mifos-users] Loan Expectations not showing in Collection
> > Sheet
>
> > Doug,
>
> > if I've read you right, the problem you have is an inability to enter more
> > payments for a loan that is already paid up. I know this problem was
> > introduced (inadvertently) to mifos a couple of release ago ... probably by
> > me.
>
> > There is an open issue for ithttp://mifosforge.jira.com/browse/MIFOS-3511
>
> > John
>
> > On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 5:58 PM, Douglas Kurz <douglask...@gmail.com>
> > *From:* John Woodlock [mailto:john.woodl...@gmail.com]
> > *Sent:* Friday, September 10, 2010 2:27 AM
> > *To:* mifos-us...@lists.sourceforge.net
> > *Subject:* Re: [Mifos-users] Loan Expectations not showing in Collection
> > Sheet
>
> > Doug,
>
> > presumably you have some way of moving the computer date forward to enter
> > in all the data. I wonder if the batch jobs haven't caught up yet.
>
> > When you create a center and its meeting schedule , mifos creates 10 future
> > meeting schedules ... The collection sheet looks at the most recent meeting
> > schedule for the center. Then there's a nightly batch job
> > called GenerateMeetingsForCustomerAndSavingsTask which puts in 10 more
> > schedules but if the batch jobs don't run the extra schedules don't get
> > created and the most recent meeting date remains the same.
>
> > So, if you leave mifos running at midnight (default batch kick-off time)
> > the date should start coming forward by about 2 1/2 months each time. You
> > can also kick it off manually but I'll wait to see if you think batch jobs
> > not running really is the problem before going into how to do that.
>
> > John
>
> > On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 10:21 PM, Douglas Kurz <douglask...@gmail.com>
> > Mifos-us...@lists.sourceforge.net
> >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mifos-users
>
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---
> > Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances
> > and start using them to simplify application deployment and
> > accelerate your shift to cloud computing.
> >http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev
> > _______________________________________________
> > Mifos-users mailing list
> > Mifos-us...@lists.sourceforge.net
> >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mifos-users
>
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---
> > Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances
> > and start using them to simplify application deployment and
> > accelerate your shift to cloud computing.
> >http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev
> > _______________________________________________
> > Mifos-users mailing list
> > Mifos-us...@lists.sourceforge.net
> >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mifos-users
>
> --
> Best Regards
> Polly Najori
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---
> Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances
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