MIDI Channel reason for jumping values ?

[Thomas B]

Hey there,

after seting this and that the beahvoiur of my Arturia MiniLab MK 2 is quite ok. But one majpr issue is still annoying:

When touching the knobs, the values on Lightroom still jump "around" before reacting "ok". So, when I turn the knob slightly to the right, the value (for example of lights) is jumping to 0 or near to it.

I have read sonehtign about the MIDI Response channel, which should be the same than te send channel.

But:

I'm sending on Channel 3 and the "Adjuyt CC Dialog" tells me about channel 2 !

My Buttons (or pads) are on channel 10 (the drums channel) but, the Dialog is telling about 9 !

I would try to sync These channels to fix the jumping values"-Problems, but how ?

Does someone have any ideas ?

Thanks

Tom

[Ernst Bokkelkamp]

Can you tell us what operating system / midi2lr version you are using ? 

What is the Lightroom version and Lightroom language, what language is your keyboard ?

1) This could be something particular with you Midi controller, maybe one of the other users can help.

2) Midi channel, you can ignore the difference. The Midi controller channel range starts with 1, internally in the software the range starts with 0,

for this reason you will see the difference of 1 depending on where you look. The "Adjust CC dialog" shows the internal channel number (0-15),

everywhere else the external channel number (1-16) is shown.

[Thomas B]

Hi Ernst,

Here's my Setup:

- Windows 10

- MIDI2LR in: C:\Users\User1\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\Lightroom\Modules\MIDI2LR.lrplugin

- Lightroom 6.12

- Controller: Arturia MiniLab MK 2

- Encoders send on Channel 3, Pads send on Channel 10

- All Pads on "Gate" (ToggleOff)

Ok, now I got the "+1 Problem" !

Well, if this is not the problem here, how is it, that lightroom or MDID2LR behaves like in "pick up mode" but isn't ?

I'm attaching the view on the lightroom fades after I moved all knobs slightly to the RIGHT (!)

if I turn the knobs slightly to the left, the values go to -100 (so obviously the slight turn means -2) ...

Once the "faders" have grabbed the values, they are working fine ...

Hope someone can help here!

Thank you!

Cheers

Thomas

[Rory Jaffe]

Read this section of the wiki: https://github.com/rsjaffe/MIDI2LR/wiki/MIDI-Controller-Setup#controllers-that-send-relative-values-or-have-unusual-ranges and test whether your controllers are sending relative values or absolute values. Sounds like they're sending relative values, which requires a setup step (described in the wiki) for them to function properly.

[Thomas B]

Hi Rory,

thanks for the hint, but I've already read this.

No, my Controllers are all set to "absolute". I would have the choice for 3 further different "relatives":

#1: left - 61-63; right: 65 -67

#2: left: 125-127, right: 1-3

#3: left: 13-15; right: 17-19

but I guess, "absolute" is the correct choice ?!

The weird thing is, that it doesn't behave  always the same way,

When I take a new (unworked) photo, and I turn the knobs slightly to the left, nothiong happens (they seem to be already on "0"), when I turn them slightly to the right, they all jump to almost "0".

When I then reset all Settings and start again turning the knobs, Exposure und contrast behave ok and accurately, lights jump to 40, shadows just to -1, ... look here:

What could tell MIDI2LR that the Controllers are already set to values near "0", but not in the middle, on "64" ?

If I can't get this running by the end of the month, I will return my Controller and return to my mouse, this is too time intensive ...

Thanks for your help !

Cheers

Thomas

[Thomas B]

Hey there °

Any further ideas aboout the "jumping values" ?

I thought about the "pick up mode". As we talk about Encoders (not Potis) the Controller can't send a fixed MIDI value, can they? If the Encoder would send a let's say, 64, it would "stand" somewhat half way of ist whole turn. If the Software default value of a particular function (brightness or tint, or ...) would be, let's say, 20, the Controller would hav to be brought to this MIDI value, so that the fader can "pick up" the Controller value and both are in sync further on.

on the opposite, if the Controller "says": "I'm on 64!" and the Software would hear that, the Software could jump to 64 and "pick up" the Controller value to be in sync !

correct so far ?

So, if my lightroom jumps to 0, when turning the Encoder to the right, it is ovious, that my Controller sends the MIDI value "0" first, and the Software picks that up! (This is, because we want the Encoders being set up to "absolute (values 1-127)

This perfectly explains the Software behaviour, I'm experiencing, but how can lightroom/MIDI2LR behave any other than this ?

If I change the controller setting to "relative" (sending 65-67 or so) Lightroom behaves as described, it just trembles, but doens't move. so this can't be the right way.

Only the developer of MIDI2LR can answer to the question how the MIDI Controller and lightroom communicate, correct ?

Thank You !

Cheers

Thomas

[Thomas B]

by the way: the Arturia Minilab is just a good piece of Hardware, it would be a tragedy not to be able to use it !

it is so well built and with the "piano Keyboard", I got 24 more controls !! I love it, but I would love to have it work properly with Lightroom/MIDI2LR ... :-)

[Thomas B]

Here's another Observation:

When I adjust values (Brightness, shadows, lights, a.s.o.) in Picture 1 (let's say to -60), then this configuration will obvoulsy be saved and when I go to Picture 2 and move the Encoders slightly to the right, the fader jumps to the value, that I have adjusted in Picture 1 (in our example -60) !

When I Close and restart Lightroom/MIDI2LR) it's the same thing.

When I shut down the PC, start newly, the values jump to the left (around -98)

That also means, that the setup (Controller, MIDI2LR, LR) is able to match the encoder with the current (or saved) value, for example -60, without jumping to 0. Why is the Setup not able to match with the LR default value 0=middle ~ MIDI 64 ?

So, Rory - where are the MIDI values (0-127) being set on their way from the controller to Lightroom ?

I will adress this to Arturia as well to make sure, that this match is not being done in the controller. 

I would really deeply appreciate any help in this !

Thank you

Cheers

Thomas

[Rory Jaffe]

I'm not sure if I understand your question completely, but here's a description of how the app translates from the controller to Lightroom.

Let's assume you have a typical CC control that ranges from 0-127. When the controller sends a CC signal to the computer, the MIDI2LR app gets that, and translates it into a number from 0 to 1, where 1 is maximum for that particular controller. Since this example control has a max of 127, the value it sends to the plugin is the value it got from the controller divided by 127. This helps "normalize" all the different control ranges out there. The plugin then takes the range of the parameter the signal is intended for, and multiplies the value 0 to 1 times the range, to get where in the range you are wanting, then sends that to Lightroom.

A complete example:

Let's say a control is assigned to Exposure and the range for exposure for this particular picture is -5 to +5. If the MIDI control is set to 127, 1.0 is sent to the plugin. Plugin then calculates 1.0*(+5 - -5) + -5, or 5. If the control is at 0, 0.0 is sent, which is 0.0*(+5 - -5) + -5 or -5. if the MIDI control is set to 32, .251969 is sent, and the Exposure is set to -2.48031 (.251969 * (5 - -5) + -5).

[Thomas B]

I'm going nuts with this ...
Why do I have those experiences and no other has ??

I have tested now ith the controller sending "relatives". This keeps the big jumps away, at least for the faders with 0 in the middle. Because the controller is now sending valies around 64 the LR fader "jumps" to 64! ok for sth like exposure or contrast, bad for sharpness, luminance, aso.
But MIDI2LR is collapsing very often! - crap!

I have returned to "absolute" but changed the range to "1-127" to avoid sending 0, but it's not better!

I still think the Arturia MiniLab is the optimal controller for this and IT HAS TO WORK PROPERLY!!!

I would love to compare and play around with someone. I'm living between Karlsruhe and Mannheim, please raise hands, if someone is nearby !

[Thomas B]

OMFG !!!!!

it is solved !!!!

I still don't know why, but here it is:

My great thanks to the Website "Lightroom-midicontroller.de"

These guys are proposing the Arturia Beatstep besides the Behringer Crap and they describe that you have to do some configuration of the controlelr with its tool "MIDI Control Center". Well, this is not new, I'm fairly familiar with this in the meantime.

The miracle is, they set the Encoders to "Relative #2" !!! (I put it to relative#1)  AND IT WORKS !!!! :-))

MIDI2LR has to be on "Two's complement".

this way the Encoders send left: 125-127, right: 1-3, so values near to the end.

I still don't know why this works ... Rory, I must say, I'm a bit disappointed, this should have been known by you, shouldn't it ? ....

OK, in the next step I will post my profiles and Controller Layouts. I think this is pretty useable ...

And some more questions are awaiting on the next Level of useage ! :-)

YEEEAAHHH !!!!

cheers

Tom