update on deceased salamander

[Karan Fairchild]

Just wanted to show how quickly decomposition is taking place. The
pictures I shared before and today's are just a few days apart, and now you
can clearly see the spine and other bones. I don't know what that jelly is,
but I won't be touching it!

Karan

[Lisa Millbank]

Northwestern Salamanders breed pretty early, so maybe this was a female who was getting ready to produce her egg mass (maybe in your pond?).  The egg mass consists of a gelatinous substance that swells with water until it's as big as the salamander who deposited it (egg mass photo).  Also, that gelatinous stuff must be resistant to bacteria in the water that could otherwise harm the embryos, and possibly also distasteful in some way so that other critters don't eat it.  So my speculation is that the salamander's body decayed or was scavenged, but the egg mass gel absorbed rain and swelled, and also is more resistant to decay than the body of the salamander.  That could be wrong, but I can't think of any other explanation.  Sad to see that something happened to her, and at the same time, very interesting in a gross way!

Lisa Millbank

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[alde...@peak.org]

Hi Lisa-

Maybe you missed the first post I sent, which explained that the headless corpse was laying in our meadow for some weeks, before this happened.  I will forward it to you.  Thanks!

What you suggest makes alot of sense!

Karan

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From: "Lisa Millbank" <millba...@gmail.com>
To: "Karan Fairchild" <alde...@peak.org>
Cc: "Mid-Valley Nature" <mid-vall...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2020 12:21:15 PM
Subject: Re: [MidValleyNature:5167] update on deceased salamander

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mid-valley-nature/CAEVJLM65Cto__1pcM0VZ2OsmpMWtLBva58V0ZZAkUX_Vc4nFWg%40mail.gmail.com.

[howard bruner]

Hi Karan

Fascinating and gross - always a hit.  I think Lisa is right in that the gel could be from the salamander's own ovaries.  There have been observations for over a hundred years that seem very like what you are documenting.  There is a generic moniker for the phenomenon - Star Jelly.  It was originally thought to be from extraterrestrial sources.

Here is a brief snippet  from Wikipedia:

In The Book of British Amphibians and Reptiles (page 138), author M. Smith states that star jelly is most likely formed from the glands in the oviducts of frogs and toads. Birds and mammals will eat the animals but not the oviducts which, when they come into contact with moisture, swell and distort leaving a vast pile of jellylike substance sometimes also referred to as otter jelly. 

Please watch the developments closely to be sure it does not morph into a hideous creature coming for us all.

And seriously, thanks for sharing.

H

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From: mid-vall...@googlegroups.com <mid-vall...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Karan Fairchild <alde...@peak.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2020 11:03 AM
To: mid-vall...@googlegroups.com <mid-vall...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [MidValleyNature:5166] update on deceased salamander

 

[alde...@peak.org]

Hi Howard and all-

Thanks for the information!  The images of "star jelly" on the internet look very much like what we have.  In our case, the dead salamander lay there for some weeks intact, then maybe when it decomposed enough for moisture to penetrate the skin, the "jelly" burst out (so to speak).  I can just imagine the salamander making its way overland to breed in our pond, as Lisa suggested, meeting up with a great horned owl who often forages on foot in our meadow, the owl has learned not to eat the whole salamander and so forth.  Pretty grim!  Thanks to everyone for their help, it's really cool to be able to solve the mystery! 

Karan

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From: "howard bruner" <hbru...@hotmail.com>
To: "Karan Fairchild" <alde...@peak.org>, "Mid-Valley Nature" <mid-vall...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2020 8:48:27 PM
Subject: Re: [MidValleyNature:5170] update on deceased salamander

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mid-valley-nature/MWHPR20MB1343AEE243E25ADCED469EEED30E0%40MWHPR20MB1343.namprd20.prod.outlook.com.

[Lisa Millbank]

I remember having a book about unexplained mysteries as a kid, and it had an article about "pwdre ser" (Welsh for "rot of the stars"), which is generally the same phenomenon as the "star jelly" that Howard mentioned.  The authors emphasized paranormal origins for this substance and the other subjects in the book, but even in my more credulous days I guessed there was probably some biological explanation for this.  I had almost forgotten about the old pwdre ser stories until now.  The only inconsistency with those stories and the current salamander observation is that some pwdre ser stories claim that it evaporated quickly.  Any unexplained gelatinous stuff may have been called pwdre ser, such as slime molds, fungi and other more ephemeral things, as well as these amphibian secretions.

We are lucky that Karan and Jim were so observant and shared these photos!  It's fascinating to see the continued growth of the jelly as the salamander's body continues to disappear, and tie it into some old European folklore at the same time.  What I want to know is how long the jelly will last and if it will get any bigger, since it seems to have incredible antimicrobial and hygroscopic properties.  Hopefully some other female salamanders were more successful in their egg-laying journeys!

Lisa Millbank

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mid-valley-nature/313751183.258865.1579884222093.JavaMail.zimbra%40peak.org.

[alde...@peak.org]

That's really interesting (and kind of funny) about your childhood book!  As for how long the jelly will last, or will it get bigger, today it started looking smaller.  I'm wondering how much effect the weather has.  Today is the driest day in awhile, and if it grew from more moisture, maybe it will shrink from lack of moisture.  Or its time might be nearly over.  The body beneath is practically gone.  If I knew how interesting it was going to be, I would've taken a photo a day!  I also hope some of those salamanders managed to make the trip.

Karan

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From: "Lisa Millbank" <millba...@gmail.com>
To: "Karan Fairchild" <alde...@peak.org>

Cc: "howard bruner" <hbru...@hotmail.com>, "Mid-Valley Nature" <mid-vall...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2020 2:28:59 PM
Subject: Re: [MidValleyNature:5172] update on deceased salamander

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mid-valley-nature/CAEVJLM55Yh60Na72U5%2B_BYWUuc4YqoOkLYOD47xaZzb%2B13s3%3DA%40mail.gmail.com.