Labels-single spacing - how to make default Word 2007
Icemaiden
new documents. However, this doesn't seem to hold true when trying to do a
mail merge with labels??!!?? I can't seem to find a way to change the
default label document - if there is such an animal.... I want all my
documents to be single spaced - labels, envelopes, letters etc. - I want it
to be the default (don't want to manually change each and every document I
create). If I choose to change to a different paragraph style, I will! I
don't want MS to choose for me.
Help!?!?!
Thanks. :-)
LT
Doug Robbins - Word MVP
the paragraph spacing in the Normal style set to have 12pts after it and
because the elements of the address are in separate paragraphs, they appear
to be double spaced.
You may also be using the addressblock which has each element of the address
in a separate paragraph. Instead of doing that, just insert the individual
merge fields into the label in the configuration that you want them,
separating each with a new line feed (Shift+Enter) rather than a carriage
return if you want to retain the space between paragraphs in your Normal
style.
--
Hope this helps.
Please reply to the newsgroup unless you wish to avail yourself of my
services on a paid consulting basis.
Doug Robbins - Word MVP
"Icemaiden" <Icem...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:A33DE16D-8409-4EA2...@microsoft.com...
Icemaiden
doesn't seem to be the solution and I don't use the address block for the
merges, I put in each separate field. So what I'm hearing, is there is no
way to set the default label document to be single spaced?! I have an office
of 21 people that use Word merges with Access and I'd really like to be able
to tell them how to configure their software to work correctly.
Sometimes I really dislike Microsoft with their holier-than-thou decisions
on what they think people should use. Office 2007 is a prime example!
Thanks.
LT
Beth Melton
since making changes to it can lead to other style issues, such as Table
styles. Then, create a new document based on your Normal template, display
the Styles task pane (press Ctrl+Alt+Shift+S), click Manage Styles at the
bottom, select the Set Defaults tab, and make your changes there. Select the
option, "New documents based on this template" The Normal style will then
follow your defaults for all new documents.
Unfortunately, this doesn't resolve the problem with merging labels.: -(
From what I can ascertain, when the Word table is inserted to create the
label structure, it's also adding space before each paragraph and a left and
right indent. For example if using Avery 5160, 5.55 pts of space is added
before each paragraph and 0.08" left and right indent. This is direct
formatting and not added by your Normal style. I don't like this either and
I suspect there will be several others who will also have issues with it. (I
suspect this is a failed attempt at adding a bit of padding before the first
paragraph.) Note that it appears as though this only applies to Labels and
not the Letters when creating a merge. Letters will use whatever style, or
direct formatting, you opt to use.
What I'd recommend is to set up a template for each label definition you use
for your merges. This can be accomplished by selecting the Merge document
(labels) and then modifying the formats - you could select the table and
then click "Clear Formatting" on the Home tab in the Font group. Place the
template in a shared folder and point your users' Workgroup template folder
to that location. Then instruct your users to use the appropriate template
for their merge. Then all they would need to do is associated the data
source although if that's the same each time then you could include that in
your template as well which actually might save time in the long run.
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/books/9801.aspx#AboutTheBook
Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/
"Icemaiden" <Icem...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:E464024B-50EB-4287...@microsoft.com...
Graham Mayor
The default setting for normal style (used for labels) is to have 12 points
of space after each paragraph and it is that that appears to show the double
spacing on the labels (the address lines each being a paragraph).
It seems odd that Microsoft swapped Normal style and the No spaced stype
while leaving normal as the default style for labels. They would have been
better creating a normal spaced style and left normal unspaced as in
previous versions. You can make these changes if you wish as long as you
remember to save them in normal.dot.
If you don't like Microsoft products there are alternatives you can buy.
--
<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>><<>
Graham Mayor - Word MVP
My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org
Icemaiden
changed the normal.dot document and it still switches over to having 5.6
point before a line. Can't seem to change it and save it as a default. I'll
have to recommend that people create a master template of their own and use
that...
I have no choice but to use MS Office at work. I also serve as "helpdesk"
for 21 people in the dept. and it becomes frustrating when MS makes global
decisions about how they feel businesses should format their documents and
not provide a way of personalizing. Generally I like MS Office - I just
don't like the inability to save my preferencial default settings.
Thanks again.
LT
Beth Melton
formatting - they didn't change the style.
I suspect the reason behind this is it's a failed attempt at adding some
padding before the first line. Many users have problems with their printers
placing the data too high on the labels which results in the tops of the
characters being cut off. Of course I don't know for sure, but that would
make sense.
btw, templates are the best way to ensure your preferred settings are always
saved -= especially in the corporate environment. One never knows when their
profile will be dumped and they are back to the defaults once again. ;-)
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/books/9801.aspx#AboutTheBook
Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/
"Icemaiden" <Icem...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:B5FD8E05-EF74-4421...@microsoft.com...
Graham Mayor
normal.dot which was for earlier versions, and suggests that you are editing
the wrong file. It is certainly possible to set the normal style to have no
space before or after and thus have labels which match. Right click 'Normal'
on the home tab. Choose 'Modify'. Remove spacing from the paragraph
formatting options. Check the 'new documents based on this style' check box
and when you close out of Word (plus Outlook if running) , save the normal
template when prompted.
Beth Melton
Regular labels are fine and they automatically use no spacing with no need
to modify the defaults. It's when using mail merge this occurs. As soon as
you select Labels as the main document type, space *before* each paragraph
and single space are added as direct formatting. The new defaults use 10 pts
space after (not 12) and 1.15 lines between.
Additional Notes:
- When using Outlook 2007, Word is irrelevant since Outlook no longer uses
Winword.exe and does not use Normal.dotm.
- If you want to avoid the issues with table styles, and other style nuances
we experienced in past versions, then you should modify the Document
Defaults and leave the Normal style unmodified.
- The Normal template for Word 2007 is always Norma.dotm - never
Normal.dotx.
~Beth Melton
"Graham Mayor" <gma...@REMOVETHISmvps.org> wrote in message
news:u6F3CoK4...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
Graham Mayor
I had prepared my web page
http://www.gmayor.com/merge_labels_with_word_2007.htm based on the default
settings of Word 2007 and noted in it the problem with spacing of the
addresses. I subsequently modified the normal style which is used as in
previous versions as the default for tables and took it as read that it
would apply also to tables created as part of mail merge - which as you
point out it doesn't. Although the suggestions on my web page for dealing
with the spacing remain valid, the reasons don't so I will have to
re-address that over the weekend :(
--
<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>><<>
Graham Mayor - Word MVP
My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org
<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>><<>
Icemaiden
missing something and was nuts. I will direct users to make a default
template to use and maybe MS will add something in the future so this won't
be necessary! :-)
Thanks for your time!
LT
Graham Mayor
interest - All your users would have to do is save the formatted merge
source document and attach the data file as required (assuming the same
field names)
http://www.gmayor.com/merge_labels_with_word_2007.htm
Graham Mayor
start by adding a label layout to a document from the labels tool on the
mailings tab, and then use Select Recipients to add the data source then
Insert Merge field to insert the fields (rather than use the Start The Mail
Merge) to start the merge and select the label format, the padding is not
added.
You would then have to go to the Start The Mail Merge Button, set the
document type to labels and then cancel out of the label dialog to set the
merge type as mailing labels. This doesn't then add the unwanted padding
either. I suspect this is why I missed the padding issue in the first place
as I have tended to carry over practices learned with earlier versions and
as a matter of course I would start from the table format I wished to use.
You could even add the document type selector to the QAT - it is in the
tools 'not on the ribbon' and called 'Main Document Setup'
Beth Melton
2007 labels.
Do you happen to still be using a beta version?
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/books/9801.aspx#AboutTheBook
Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/
"Graham Mayor" <gma...@REMOVETHISmvps.org> wrote in message
news:OhEJWIj4...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
Beth Melton
the Label Options dialog box when used with Mail Merge. If you don't use the
dialog box to create the label definition then the padding will not be
added. If you use the dialog box then the padding will be added since the
procedure for creating the label definition occurs when you click OK in the
Label Options dialog box.
As a matter of fact, I think mail merge in Word 2007 is the least confusing
so far. The Mailings tab categorizes each primary process for mail merge
into groups on the tab: Start Mail Merge, Write & Insert Fields, Preview
Results, and Finish. I think it's even more straightforward than the old
Mail Merge Helper. This was good but it didn't include the process for
inserting the mail merge fields. Once the dialog box closed you needed to
know to use the mail merge toolbar and find the command to insert the
fields. If you follow the commands on the Mailings tab for mail merge from
left to right, each step is presented to you. Perhaps this is an example of
how trying to continue to implement old methods will make things more
confusing in the new version?
Regarding adding the "Main Document Setup" command to the QAT, how does this
work any different than using the Start Mail Merge command on the Mailings
tab? The extra space is still added since it appears to be calling the same
routine as the Start Mail Merge command.
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/books/9801.aspx#AboutTheBook
Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/
"Graham Mayor" <gma...@REMOVETHISmvps.org> wrote in message
news:u1ftnSj4...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
Graham Mayor
> I guess I don't see this as confusing. The extra padding is a
> function of the Label Options dialog box when used with Mail Merge.
> If you don't use the dialog box to create the label definition then
> the padding will not be added. If you use the dialog box then the
> padding will be added since the procedure for creating the label
> definition occurs when you click OK in the Label Options dialog box.
Agreed, but lots of people want to use templates to create label merges.
What is confusing is that the padding is only added when you start the merge
from the Start Mail Merge tool and not when you start from a document and
change the document type subsequently, either using the Start Mail Merge or
the similar tool which can be added to the QAT.
> As a matter of fact, I think mail merge in Word 2007 is the least
> confusing so far. The Mailings tab categorizes each primary process
> for mail merge into groups on the tab: Start Mail Merge, Write &
> Insert Fields, Preview Results, and Finish. I think it's even more
> straightforward than the old Mail Merge Helper. This was good but it
> didn't include the process for inserting the mail merge fields. Once
> the dialog box closed you needed to know to use the mail merge
> toolbar and find the command to insert the fields. If you follow the
> commands on the Mailings tab for mail merge from left to right, each
> step is presented to you. Perhaps this is an example of how trying to
> continue to implement old methods will make things more confusing in
> the new version?
I have no argument there either, the comments concerned primarily the
addition of the padding, which I had missed as attributable to the new label
merge function (but which is not an inherent part of labels nor of merge
generally). Even the dreadful AddressBlock field now works properly most of
the time.
>
> Regarding adding the "Main Document Setup" command to the QAT, how
> does this work any different than using the Start Mail Merge command
> on the Mailings tab? The extra space is still added since it appears
> to be calling the same routine as the Start Mail Merge command.
It doesn't work differently - but the space is not added if you merely
change the document type (of an already loaded template) to labels and then
continue the merge process.
Graham Mayor
I'll bite. What is wrong with the information as it now stands? I have
checked my comments using Word 2007 in its safe mode, but I will concede
that it is possible to get so close to a project that you miss things or
misinterpret things that others see.
I have added a paragraph at the start of the page as it would appear that I
am advocating sticking to ancient ways, whereas my intention was to show
that they were still available. I have also added a hyperlink to allow
readers to jump over the following section.
I am not using nor ever have used the beta version?
Beth Melton
> Beth Melton wrote:
>> Regarding adding the "Main Document Setup" command to the QAT, how
>> does this work any different than using the Start Mail Merge command
>> on the Mailings tab? The extra space is still added since it appears
>> to be calling the same routine as the Start Mail Merge command.
>
> It doesn't work differently - but the space is not added if you merely
> change the document type (of an already loaded template) to labels and
> then continue the merge process.
If I start with my own labels and use the Main Document Setup command to
change the label type the space is still added. Are you not seeing the same
thing?
--
Graham Mayor
> "Graham Mayor" <gma...@REMOVETHISmvps.org> wrote in message
> news:uKwh4$u4HHA...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Beth Melton wrote:
>
>>> Regarding adding the "Main Document Setup" command to the QAT, how
>>> does this work any different than using the Start Mail Merge command
>>> on the Mailings tab? The extra space is still added since it appears
>>> to be calling the same routine as the Start Mail Merge command.
>>
>> It doesn't work differently - but the space is not added if you
>> merely change the document type (of an already loaded template) to
>> labels and then continue the merge process.
>
> If I start with my own labels and use the Main Document Setup command
> to change the label type the space is still added. Are you not seeing
> the same thing?
Not if you have already attached the data source.
Start with a label format on screen (either from a template or from the new
document feature of the Label tool under Mailings). Attach the data source
(Select Recipients). Whether you now add the fields or change the document
type to 'labels' the space is not added. It is only added if you choose the
document type before you apply the data source.
Beth Melton
> Beth Melton wrote:
>> "Graham Mayor" <gma...@REMOVETHISmvps.org> wrote in message
>> news:uKwh4$u4HHA...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> Beth Melton wrote:
>>
>>>> Regarding adding the "Main Document Setup" command to the QAT, how
>>>> does this work any different than using the Start Mail Merge command
>>>> on the Mailings tab? The extra space is still added since it appears
>>>> to be calling the same routine as the Start Mail Merge command.
>>>
>>> It doesn't work differently - but the space is not added if you
>>> merely change the document type (of an already loaded template) to
>>> labels and then continue the merge process.
>>
>> If I start with my own labels and use the Main Document Setup command
>> to change the label type the space is still added. Are you not seeing
>> the same thing?
>
> Not if you have already attached the data source.
>
> Start with a label format on screen (either from a template or from the
> new document feature of the Label tool under Mailings). Attach the data
> source (Select Recipients). Whether you now add the fields or change the
> document type to 'labels' the space is not added. It is only added if you
> choose the document type before you apply the data source.
I've tried various methods attempting to figure out what you are seeing but
in each scenario, even if I keep the same label type, when I change the type
to labels the space is still added.
Beth Melton
lables in Word 2007 but I'll mention it again. ;-)
On your page you have this note:
"Microsoft appears to have retained the default use of the 'normal'
paragraph style to format tables; however, in Word 2007, the normal
paragraph style has added spacing. This will result in extra spacing between
the lines of the addresses on the labels when created using the label
tool..."
Technically this statement is incorrect. By default, Word 2007 does not add
any additional spacing, not between paragraphs or line spacing, on labels
you create using the Labels command on the Mailings tab. Now, if *you*
modify your Normal style and add extra spacing then in this scenario that
spacing will also be added to the labels. I suspect this is why you are
seeing this behavior.
Note that one of the beta versions did include the additional space but due
to feedback they received this behavior was changed in RTM.
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/books/9801.aspx#AboutTheBook
Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/
"Graham Mayor" <gma...@REMOVETHISmvps.org> wrote in message
news:Of%23vSNv4...@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
Graham Mayor
Here the default setting for the Normal paragraph style is to have 10 points
of space after, and multiple line spacing is set to 1.15.
There is another style in the default set called 'No Spacing' which is what
I would have expected 'Normal. to be.
Normal style is used by default in tables - and this isn't a beta copy of
Word (I skipped the beta process entirely) and is tested for the purpose of
clarification in its safe mode - so tables have added space.
However there is some additional behaviour going on here, which seems a tad
hit and miss. Sometimes when you insert and address into the labels tool
window, the address is posted into the label (new document) with added space
and then it is reformatted to remove the extra padding. Other times it
doesn't do that and the spacing remains. It all seems a tad flaky to me.
I will however return to that disputed paragraph and make some change based
on what I find. :)
Removing the space from the normal style and creating a new style with the
spacing (I renamed the No Spacing style after I added the spacing to it)
removes the anomaly, and as this was how Word was setup through its recent
versions, I fail to see why they changed it to complicate matters.
Graham Mayor
http://www.gmayor.com/merge_labels_with_word_2007.htm#Note:
which should now cover what is supposed to happen and what I see happening
;)
Graham Mayor
outside issues)
2. Open a new blank document, because safe mode doesn't open any document
space.
3. From the Labels button pick a label from Options (I am using 5264 from
Avery Letter for this experiment)
4 Create a new document from the labels tool (this will give you a new
document and is essentially the same as starting from a label template).
5. On the Mailings Tab click > Select Recipients > and pick Select From
Outlook Contacts
6. Pick an available contacts list
7. Click Start Merge and choose 'labels'.
8. Cancel the label dialog - we already have the label selected and this
will make available the mailing label functions.
9. Use the Insert Mergefield Button to add fields to your first label (the
tiny arrow at the button will allow you to insert the fields one at a time.
Press enter after each row of fields. The fields now have no padding.
10. Click Update Labels - this propagates the first label content to the
others and adds Next record fields as appropriate. (still no padding added).
11. Click 'Finish and Merge' and choose the option to Edit Individual
Documents. This merges to a new document. Still no padding.
While this process does not follow the logical progression left to right
along the Mailings tab of the ribbon as you would if creating labels from
resident templates, it would be a logical process if the merge is to start
from a label template eg one downloaded from Avery or created yourself for a
specific purpose.
--
<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>><<>
Graham Mayor - Word MVP
My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org
<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>><<>
Beth Melton
dialog box which, as we previously discussed, doesn't execute the procedure
that adds the extra spacing.
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/books/9801.aspx#AboutTheBook
Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/
"Graham Mayor" <gma...@REMOVETHISmvps.org> wrote in message
news:OpcwgTA5...@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
Beth Melton
This is one of those areas I fought hard for during the beta. Originally,
the new default spacing infiltrated *everything*. Labels, envelopes, you
name it. Thankfully Microsoft did listen to the feedback and changed the
behaviors. I suspect there were a few areas that were missed (I'm still
wondering what happened to labels when you use mail merge...) but as a whole
I'm happy with the changes they made. I suspect that's why I wanted to see
the corrections made to your page since it is a 'win' for user feedback. :-)
Also, as for changing everything back to the way it was, instead of
modifying styles and such, you can simply switch to the Word 2003 style set.
This is available under Change Styles/Style Sets. After you select "Word
2003" in the Style Set list, if you want to use it as your default then
click the Change Styles button again and then click "Set as Default".
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/books/9801.aspx#AboutTheBook
Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/
"Graham Mayor" <gma...@REMOVETHISmvps.org> wrote in message
news:uZyjFKA5...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
Graham Mayor
was working from the basis that the user had default settings (something not
many of us have for very long). Either way, the end result is really all
that matters and I think the page will end up with the user having the
required results for his/her purpose. Certainly the page has had a lot of
hits since I posted it and I have had no feedback from the site to suggest
that users are having problems with it...... yet ;)
COSMO
Unfortunately, I am stuck in a campus environment using MSloth 2007, and
I am a true died-in-the-wool user of Corel WordPerfect---have been since
before they were known as WP.
cosmo
COSMO
ASKED, LOOK FOR ANOTHER JOB.
If my business found out an employee was treating a customer in the inane
fashion you did by telling them to use another product, that employee would
be terminated for cause, and immediately escorted out by security forces.
Having a bad day? Don't come to work and take it out on the valued customer
that used/purchased your MSloth products.
Indeed, have you no shame?
Cosmo
Suzanne S. Barnhill
here. I see nothing discourteous in Graham's reply, which was actually quite
informative.
--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.
"COSMO" <CO...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:FB6E53D0-E4B4-4B02...@microsoft.com...
Graham Mayor
I provide Word support for users both in these forums and on my web site at
my own expense and in my own time. Neither do I have much time for anonymous
whingers, who jump into someone elses thread to make their own petty points,
or for Word Perfect users who come here to report how hard done to they are,
by having to work for an organisation that makes them use a different
product. If you have an issue with your employers take it up with them.
If you want free user peer group support you take on the rough and tumble of
the user forums. If you want manufacturer's help desk support then I am sure
Microsoft would be happy to take your money.
Beth Melton
troll and we don't feed trolls around here. Not even those who find
themselves with a problem and come crawling back seeking help. Once a troll
always a troll.
Now, if you aren't a troll and have come here seeking help then my
suggestion to you is to stop behaving like one. We aren't a bunch of
Microsoft cheerleaders. We're nothing more than users, just like you, who
are here to learn more about the applications we are using, either by
personal preference or forced usage. At the same time we don't want a bunch
of negative bs being tossed around. This is a friendly environment and we
strive to keep it that way.
So it's your choice, change the attitude and you'll be welcome here. There a
several around here that are or were in your shoes so I'm sure you'll fit
in. :-)
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
"COSMO" <CO...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:38694CEF-3B77-4CC3...@microsoft.com...
