TC/SC Translation Problems revisited

[Shiuan Liu]

on 3/9/01 Paul Tam wrote about an error message he got while using English
version of Word 2000 to do TC/SC translation, which says that more than one
file necessary to do these translations are missing.

well, i've had the same problem and have been going crazy trying to work
around it. i actually went so far as to get a copy of Chinese Office.
installed that, and -- sure enough, the translation works.

however, i am used to the English dialogues and menus, but now that i've got
Chinese Office installed, i don't want to spend time figuring out what the
Chinese menus mean (not to mention the other non-Chinese-reading people in
the office simply can't use my computer to work).

and so my question is: does anyone know what files ARE necessary to do these
translations, and can I just copy them over from a copy of Chinese Office
2000 into installed directories of English Office 2000?

complicated, i know .. if anyone can help, i'll be so thankful. i've spent
many days trying to work around this problem!

please post to both the group and cc: e-mail me if possible. thanks --

shiuan liu

[Michael (michka) Kaplan]

Sorry, but there is no way you can just jump in and copy files here, no.
Setup has tasks it must do.

--
MichKa

the only book on internationalization in VB at
http://www.i18nWithVB.com/

"Shiuan Liu" <shiua...@post.harvard.edu> wrote in message
news:uQIE9qR2AHA.1856@tkmsftngp07...

[Shiuan Liu]

Well Setup has done a royal job of messing up my registry when I tried to
re-install the English Office 2000 on top of the Chinese Office 2000.
Basically, I really need the TC/SC function, but I cannot deal with the
Chinese menus and dialogues of Chinese Office 2000. Any workarounds?

"Michael (michka) Kaplan" <forme...@spamfree.trigeminal.nospam.com> 撰寫於
郵件 news:uxa3ZyR2AHA.2280@tkmsftngp02...

[Shiuan Liu]

after comparing files between the chinese and english version of office, i
believe some of the files for chinese translation are installed in the
folder program files/common files/microsoft shared/proof/:

MSTR2TSC.DLL
MSTR2TSC.LEX

but how to "install" them, or trick Word 2000 into recognizing them?

"Michael (michka) Kaplan" <forme...@spamfree.trigeminal.nospam.com> 撰寫於
郵件 news:uxa3ZyR2AHA.2280@tkmsftngp02...

[Shiuan Liu]

Dear MichKa, I also noticed that you have been answering many users'
questions regarding Windows 2000, and I'd like your advice.

Basically, I'm ready to throw in the towel on Windows 98. I currently run
Windows 98 Second Edition -- Localized Traditional Chinese edition, and I am
having a hard time with just about everything. I went with the localized
edition in order to better work with Chinese (which English Windows98 is
terrible at handling in applications), but the localized Windows also has
its own idiosyncrasies and is messing with IE5.5. I would like to know: if I
install Windows 2000 English edition, can I expect the same level of
performance and compatibility with Chinese as I have with Chinese Windows?
Or must I also go with Chinese Windows 2000 in order to be able to work
comfortably with Chinese in Outlook, Office and other programs?

Thanks very much for your help, hope to hear from you.

Shiuan Liu

"Michael (michka) Kaplan" <forme...@spamfree.trigeminal.nospam.com> 撰寫於
郵件 news:uxa3ZyR2AHA.2280@tkmsftngp02...

[Michael (michka) Kaplan]

On my Windows 2000 machine, it works just fine. I have not used Win9x for
anything other than a platform to test on in the last 4-5 years or so.

--
MichKa

the only book on internationalization in VB at
http://www.i18nWithVB.com/

"Shiuan Liu" <shiua...@post.harvard.edu> wrote in message

news:uI4oJBS2AHA.1440@tkmsftngp07...

[Michael (michka) Kaplan]

You cannot trick the Windows installer, and it is what writes the reg keys
that will be needed later.

--
MichKa

the only book on internationalization in VB at
http://www.i18nWithVB.com/

"Shiuan Liu" <shiua...@post.harvard.edu> wrote in message

news:u4N21PS2AHA.2296@tkmsftngp02...

[Michael (michka) Kaplan]

Every version of Windows 2000 has full multilingual support -- you will have
the full set of IMEs to choose from, several fonts, etc. You can even change
the default system locale to Traditional Chinese (choosing Taiwan, for
example) and even non-Unicode apps will work properly. I would *highly*
recommend this upgrade.

Win9x is a charming OS for home users who have very modest needs, but as
soon as you need something complicated, you are always better off switching
to the real OS.

--
MichKa

the only book on internationalization in VB at
http://www.i18nWithVB.com/

"Shiuan Liu" <shiua...@post.harvard.edu> wrote in message

news:ezyjWjT2AHA.2120@tkmsftngp03...

[FL]

So, MS spent almost 20 years to reach the status of a real OS, when we
had Unix as a real OS for 30 years... :-)

Francisco

[FL]

I once solved this problem by installing first the English version, then
the Chinese and then reinstalling the English version. You will be able
to choose English or Chinese menus via MS Office Language Settings and
still retain the TC/SC translation. But it is quite unreliable, and do
it only as a last resort.

Francisco

[Michael (michka) Kaplan]

I do not consider UNIX to have been a real OS by criteria we use here for 30
years.... with a completely inadequate strategy for input, rendering, fonts,
and collation for most of that time (some still inadequate) you could argue
that they MIGHT catch up one day if they work at it.

--
MichKa

the only book on internationalization in VB at
http://www.i18nWithVB.com/

"FL" <frl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3AFA9A31...@hotmail.com...

[Shiuan Liu]

Yep, that is what I did. All my office applications open up with different
ettings each time -- different shortcuts, preferences, etc. Took a look at
the register and it appeared that having two version constructed two
separate sets of everything, and I suspect that was what caused my computer
crash so frequently after that. Well, I've since reformatted and
re-installed only the English version, so now the computer is (relatively)
stable, though I'm stuck without TC/SC.

I think I'll take MichKa's suggestion and get myself a copy of Windows 2000.

"FL" <frl...@hotmail.com> 撰寫於郵件 news:3AFA99E6...@hotmail.com...

[Shiuan Liu]

Do you mean it works fine with both English and Chinese versions of Office
installed concurrently, or that you have no problem converting TC/SC with
Windows 2000?

"Michael (michka) Kaplan" <forme...@spamfree.trigeminal.nospam.com> 撰寫於

郵件 news:ebHHKTV2AHA.1756@tkmsftngp07...

[FL]

Graphical input, rendering and fonts are part of a windowing system or
GUI system/environment and usually decoupled from the OS, at least from
the definition of OS that I've learned, i.e. kernel, filesystems,
hardware drivers control/management, clustering, memory allocation stuff
belong to the OS. GUI is a only nice component that works with the OS.

Do you really consider Windows 1.x-3.x an OS? And you don't really need
a GUI to be able to run a web server or firewall, do you? :-)

The major thing missing in UNIX may be collation support, but that was
because mainframes usually processed raw data and left collation to
applications like database engines (Oracle, Sybase, DB/2...) .

[Michael (michka) Kaplan]

I mean that I have no problems converting with just the English version.

--
MichKa

the only book on internationalization in VB at
http://www.i18nWithVB.com/

"Shiuan Liu" <shiua...@post.harvard.edu> wrote in message

news:eaZizYX2AHA.1228@tkmsftngp02...

[Michael (michka) Kaplan]

Well, I usually go a bit beyond your definition of OS, which is really
"base" or kernel level stuff, to include a great deal more.

Since the Unix solution was simply not support it at the OS level and no one
was providing anything higher up, I fail to see how they were providing
anything even moderately internationally aware.

The NT platform has done a better job of this since the day they shipped,
even with their much lamer first version as compared to the one currently in
beta 2.

--
MichKa

the only book on internationalization in VB at
http://www.i18nWithVB.com/

"FL" <frl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:3AFAD4E4...@hotmail.com...

[Meng Lu]

Hi there,

I'm using English version on a English version Windows 2000 Pro and default
region is set to PRC. I have the same error message as Paul has mentioned
before. So I don't think the OS is relevant here just as what FL has
mentioned before.

I'm very interested in how MichKa got his/her TC/SC fixed.

Best regards,
Meng

"Shiuan Liu" <shiua...@post.harvard.edu> wrote in message

news:eqtWyYX2AHA.1228@tkmsftngp02...

[Michael (michka) Kaplan]

Not sure, but it works just fine here. It also appears to work in Office XP
(installed earlier today on this machine).

One could also install the multilang packs for Office to get multiple
language support.

--
MichKa

the only book on internationalization in VB at
http://www.i18nWithVB.com/

"Meng Lu" <men...@uclink.berkeley.edu> wrote in message
news:uZJk1uY2AHA.988@tkmsftngp07...

[Meng Lu]

Have you uninstalled office 2k before install office XP? I mean have you
made a clean install of officeXP? If not, there may be something special
when you first installed office2k. What option you chose when you installed
those offices? Typical of custom? Any thing special you want to mention?

BTW, the language pack for OfficeXp seems to convert the menu in Chinese
rather than a tool dealing with TC/SC translation.

Regards,
Meng

"Michael (michka) Kaplan" <forme...@spamfree.trigeminal.nospam.com> wrote
in message news:#K$VZnZ2AHA.1488@tkmsftngp03...

[Shiuan Liu]

Meng, as Francisco mentioned, you can try to install both Chinese and
English Office together, but that seems to make for a volatile combination.
I experienced many crashes when I did this, although I was able to choose
whether I wanted the menus, dialogues, and help files displayed in English
or Chinese -- a nifty feature. The TC/SC translation also worked with no
problems.
I'm convinced that there is some way to isolate the files necessary to do
the translations from a localized version of Office, and register them in
the Windows Registry so that Word will accept them. Maybe if I installed
English Office, then Chinese Office, then uninstalled Chinese Office? Has
anyone tried this?

"Meng Lu" <men...@uclink.berkeley.edu> 撰寫於郵件
news:uJcIlFa2AHA.988@tkmsftngp07...

[Michael (michka) Kaplan]

I have another machine where I installed the South Asia version and all 8CDs
of lang packs, and I have the option there, too. This is on my main laptop.

--
MichKa

the only book on internationalization in VB at
http://www.i18nWithVB.com/

"Shiuan Liu" <shiua...@post.harvard.edu> wrote in message
news:#eWOgtc2AHA.1748@tkmsftngp03...

[Shiuan Liu]

So am I to expect that the only way to enable the TC/SC translation is to
purchase the language packs for Office?
That is hardly surprising, more $oftware to buy!

"Michael (michka) Kaplan" <forme...@spamfree.trigeminal.nospam.com> 撰寫於

郵件 news:evvDgDd2AHA.1032@tkmsftngp03...

[Michael (michka) Kaplan]

I would not expect that, no. But its really hard to say.

In the end, the feature is hardly worth it in terms of quality. If you need
a translation, get a reputable localizer, as autotranslation is at least
another 25 years from being a usable technology.

--
MichKa

the only book on internationalization in VB at
http://www.i18nWithVB.com/

"Shiuan Liu" <shiua...@post.harvard.edu> wrote in message

news:OKtarPd2AHA.1440@tkmsftngp07...

[Shiuan Liu]

I'm not looking for quality, just convenience. I often send and receive
e-mails and other documents in SC, but I am used to working in TC, so I just
want an easy way to re-map my text from Big5 to GB code, paste it in the
appropriate e-mails with the right fonts, and send it off. I am using
Twinbridge Chinese Partner as my primary IME, and the code converter that's
included with the package requires you to first save the file as RTF or TXT,
then write into a target file, then open the target file...a big pain. With
Word, I can just highlight the text, click "translate" and it's done. The
term of "translation" is not really accurate here, it's more just re-mapping
of internal codes and fonts. The only translating that's done is the
occasional substitution of terms which are native to Taiwan and China.

Can anyone recommend a stable, cheap, application-integratable code
converter, or can suggest an easier alternative way to do this TC/SC
"translation"?

"Michael (michka) Kaplan" <forme...@spamfree.trigeminal.nospam.com> 撰寫於

郵件 news:#cELPVd2AHA.1484@tkmsftngp03...

[FL]

No, this feature does a pretty decent job already. Basically, it just
converts those traditional chinese characters into simplified chinese
characters (99.9% one-to-one mapping). It does the additional job of
translating the popular words, which is just another lookup. Virtually
no intelligence required in both of these routines.

AFAIK, the official way of getting different UI menus is the purchase of
the multilanguage pack for Office, which I believe is only available to
Select customers (not sure about Open Volumn license).

Francisco

[FL]

Use NJStar. It's convenient for clipboard conversions (at least for me).
Just copy Word's text to clipboard, start NJStar, convert UCS2 to GB,
then GB back to UCS2 and paste the converted result to Word. Works most
of the time, but you will lose the formatting. NJStar works also well in
Win2K and NT, gives out several IMEs and supports outputting UTF-8
directly from the IME.

Francisco

P.S. I hate twinbridge. It crashes too often.

[Shiuan Liu]

You sure got that right about Twisted Bridges .. ;)
I have downloaded NJStar (shareware). The phrase learning function of the
IME is not as convenient as TwinBr, but all other functions seem to be
superior. However I do wish there was a way to convert the text without
losing the formatting -- many of the documents I work with are heavy on
formatting, involving tables and such, and I'd hate to clip, convert, and
paste each individual cell of a table!
I also have RichWin 2000, a PRC-made program, which used to work on English
windows but now will *not* install on Traditional Chinese windows! argh!!
Has anyone out there heard of any shareware stand-alone programs which do
the conversion?

"FL" <frl...@hotmail.com> 撰寫於郵件 news:3AFB8310...@hotmail.com...

[Meng Lu]

did experiments yesterday on my English version windows 2k pro with English
officexp installed:

1 copied files in 'proof' folder in a Simplified Chinese version office2000
to \Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\Proof, TC/SC doesn't work in
officexp.

2 installed SC office 2000 over the same folder of officexp. it seems the
installer did not recognize officexp thus did not ask those update, keep or
remove things. after this, TC/SC translation in officexp still doesn't work
but works fine office2k(SC).

3 uninstalled both officexp and office2k. then installed office2k(SC) first,
officexp second to the same folder and keep office2k. TC/SC translation
doesn't work in officexp.I notice office2k is in the folder of 'office'
while officexp is in 'office10'.

4 uninstalled officexp, installed office2k(EN) to the same folder as
office2k(SC). office2k(SC) was gone and only office2k(EN) left, with the
TC/SC function working smoothly!

I'm waiting and see if the stability of my windows 2k decreases or not.

Sorry for my ackwark way of testing. need help from real soft-engineers.

BTW, NjStar v.2.23 does not work properly on my w2k pc: there is only
unrecongizable characaters after the conversion.

Regards,
Meng

"Shiuan Liu" <shiua...@post.harvard.edu> wrote in message

news:#eWOgtc2AHA.1748@tkmsftngp03...

[Shiuan Liu]

That is awkward :)
Are you sure Office 2k (SC) is "gone" or is it still installed, just not
displayed?

"Meng Lu" <meng...@hotmail.com> 撰寫於郵件
news:upQdSGk2AHA.2120@tkmsftngp03...

[Meng Lu]

I'm sure it's gone for office2k(EN) is installed in exactly the same
subdirectory of 'Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office' rather than 'Program
Files\Microsoft Office\Office10' where officexp was. I search winword.exe,
there is only one in my computer, So the SC one was gone!!!

"Shiuan Liu" <shiua...@post.harvard.edu> wrote in message

news:e3vHwYk2AHA.1884@tkmsftngp07...