StyleRef Formatting Frustrations
Dax Arroway
I have a form (Word 03) that I'm trying to use sbarnhill's SytleRef trick
with. The Useful StyleRef tricks page is:
http://sbarnhill.mvps.org/WordFAQs/StyleRef.htm#FormField
because I want to insert a Name field (client entered) and Date field
(client entered) into the footer. So far so good. I did all of the
instructions and everything works --except-- the formatting of the form
fields turn from my Normal Style Font (Arial 10pt.) to MS Gothic and I can't
figure out why or how to fix it.
I've tried switching the Style Type to Paragraph and it still changes to MS
Gothic when the style is applied to the form field. I tried deleting it and
reformatting it by entering Arial into the Formatting field ofthe New Style
dialog--still MS Gothic. And it gets weirder! If I insert a form field,
just a normal one, and apply the Normal Style to it, it changes to MS Gothic
Font even though it was all ready Normal Style in the first place! AAHHHH!!
Am I going crazy or what? Does anyone have any clue as to what the heck is
happening with this form? Where is the MS Gothic Font coming from? It's not
in any of my Styles or Normal.dot. Grrrrr.
Would someone kindly tell me where this might be coming from? 'Cause I'm
about to through my monitor out the window! I know that won't fix my problem
but it sure would feel good! I'm sure some of you know what I'm talking
about! Anyway, if any Gurus out there could please come to my rescue, I sure
would appreciate it. Much much thanks in advance!
Best,
Dax
--
I would give my left hand to be ambidextrous!
Peter T. Daniels
entry area under "Asian fonts"? If MS Gothic is chosen there, see if
you can change it to something innocuous like Arial or TNR.
There's a third area for a default font, called "Complex," which
covers Arabic/Hebrew and Indian fonts. You should also be able to make
that one Arial or TNR, too.
Presumably those two extra areas are only shown if your computer has
its Asian and Complex abilities turned on (mine were from the
beginning, so I don't know what it looks like without them.)
On Aug 6, 10:24 pm, Dax Arroway <DaxArro...@discussions.microsoft.com>
wrote:
Suzanne S. Barnhill
it on Default Paragraph Font, and you shouldn't see this issue. If it's a
paragraph style, what style is it based on?
FWIW, I've never even heard of MS Gothic.
--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org
"Dax Arroway" <DaxAr...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:E7E53B38-A4FD-4320...@microsoft.com...
Dax Arroway
I'm using a character style. Funny thing is when I simply insert a form
field its Normal Style (Arial) but if I apply the Normal Style to the form
field, it switches to MS Gothic. If I insert the field and clear the
formatting (CTRL+Spacebar) it switches to MS Gothic. This leads me to
believe that there's an underlying Font field imbeded within the document
somewhere or somehow. I even changed the Default Font by using the Font
dialog box and selecting the Default button but this doesn't fix it.
PS: I don't even have MS Gothic on this machine. MS Gothic, or whatever
it's defaulting to... is ugly!
--
I would give my left hand to be ambidextrous!
Dax Arroway
font, it's English characters. I'm not sure where Styel(s)>Font is! In
Tools>Styles and Formatting, when I click it the Styles and Formatting pane
comes open and I don't see anywhere in any of my styles where there's
anything that says Asian Fonts or Complex and I'm not sure where to look.
Can you be a bit more specific? I'm using Word 03 on a WinXP machine if that
helps. --Dax
I would give my left hand to be ambidextrous!
Dax Arroway
Here, just in case, I'll upload it to:
http://www.awablue.com/506xTransferSummary.dot
If that at all helps.
I would give my left hand to be ambidextrous!
Dax Arroway
etc. etc. and the only language I have installed is English.
I would give my left hand to be ambidextrous!
Peter T. Daniels
stuff that doesn't appear in regular Roman fonts), and MS Gothic is
probably installed automatically.
Choose a style in the S&F panel, right-click, and choose Modify, and
in the panel that appears click Formatting > Fonts. You get the same
panel you see with Format > Fonts when you're out in your document,
and that's where you can change the fonts in case MS Gothic is the
Asian default (if Asian is enabled in Windows).
Or, you could simply uninstall the MS Gothic font by going to the
Fonts area of Start > Control Panel.
On Aug 6, 11:58 pm, Dax Arroway <DaxArro...@discussions.microsoft.com>
Peter T. Daniels
IME, and it overrides Word's "clear formatting" command -- you have to
use Ctrl-Shift-Z to clear formatting in Word. (Changing the Windows
keyboard shortcut for switching to Chinese -- in the Regional and
Language Settings part of Control Panel -- does _not_ stick.)
Which means that Asian typing is enabled on your computer.
On Aug 6, 11:37 pm, Dax Arroway <DaxArro...@discussions.microsoft.com>
wrote:
> Ms. Barnhill herself! WOW! Thanks for coming to my rescue. I'm honored.
>
> I'm using a character style. Funny thing is when I simply insert a form
> field its Normal Style (Arial) but if I apply the Normal Style to the form
> field, it switches to MS Gothic. If I insert the field and clear the
> formatting (CTRL+Spacebar) it switches to MS Gothic. This leads me to
> believe that there's an underlying Font field imbeded within the document
> somewhere or somehow. I even changed the Default Font by using the Font
> dialog box and selecting the Default button but this doesn't fix it.
>
> PS: I don't even have MS Gothic on this machine. MS Gothic, or whatever
> it's defaulting to... is ugly!
> --
> I would give my left hand to be ambidextrous!
>
>
>
> "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:
> > Are you using a paragraph or character style? If the latter, you should base
> > it on Default Paragraph Font, and you shouldn't see this issue. If it's a
> > paragraph style, what style is it based on?
>
> > FWIW, I've never even heard of MS Gothic.
>
> > --
> > Suzanne S. Barnhill
> > Microsoft MVP (Word)
> > Words into Type
> > Fairhope, Alabama USA
> >http://word.mvps.org
>
> > "Dax Arroway" <DaxArro...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
Suzanne S. Barnhill
I think Peter has identified some of the key issues involved. In the past,
similar issues have been associated with form fields converting to MS Mincho
(a Japanese font), which is equally infuriating, and I have had this happen
even outside of fields when using Ctrl+Spacebar on some characters that I
believe are (covertly) drawn from Arial Unicode MS (en and em spaces). I
don't have any Asian language enabled, either, so it is puzzling why this
happens. I know that MS (or at least some people at MS) are aware of issues
of this type because I've submitted problem documents where this sort of
thing was happening.
--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org
"Dax Arroway" <DaxAr...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:4742D39A-FA61-438F...@microsoft.com...
Dax Arroway
Thanks for the input. That's just the thing though. On my machine at work
(Word07) I don't have MS Gothic installed and from following your
instructions S&F>RightClickOnAStyle>Modify>Format>Font I see nowhere where
there's anywhere where I can set an Asian Font and Arial is listed as the
default font. Same with my computer at home (Word03)
When I go to S&F>RightClickOnAStyle>Modify>Format>Language the only Language
that's set is English. I can see where I can add different fonts, but none
of them are selected. (Maybe becaues they're listed does that mean that
they're installed because they're available but if it weren't available on
other client's machines [because i'll be putting this file out on the server
for others in my company to use--03 and 07 users] that this would default to
something else and continue to be a neusance instead of reverting back to
Arial?
Also, when I insert a Text Form Field into the document, it works fine and
stays Arial but when I create a character style and apply it to the field,
that's where it changes to this MS Gothic, which obviously is continuing to
drive me NUTS!
So it doesn't seem that I have other languages turned on anywhere and I'm
not sure how the settings on my computer will affect a .dot when it's
uploaded to the server but do you see any other ways of controling this
behavior or am I just SOL and will have to live with it?
Lene Fredborg
to MS Mincho
I don’t have any Asian language enabled, either. In Word 2003, when I use
Ctrl+Spacebar (which runs the ResetChar command as does Ctrl+Shift+Z), the
font of the form fields here change to MS Mincho. I have created a lot of
forms and the problem is rather annoying. However, resetting the form fields
(e.g. using Reset Form Fields in the Forms toolbar) corrects the problem here
and reverts the form fields to the correct formatting.
MS Mincho is also erroneously applied if I apply a character style to a form
field. Resetting the form fields also cures that problem here. Maybe it will
work for you too, Dax.
I have just checked in Word 2007 and the problem seems to be gone there. I
am inclined to use Word 2003 whenever possible but maybe I will use Word 2007
for forms from now on…
By the way, I am ambidextrous ;-)
--
Regards
Lene Fredborg - Microsoft MVP (Word)
DocTools - Denmark
www.thedoctools.com
Document automation - add-ins, macros and templates for Microsoft Word
Dax Arroway
start from scratch I decided to practice on a blank doc first. Open New>
Insert Text Form Field> Create New Character Style> Apply Character Style to
Form Field> yep, changes to MS Mincho on this machine (home--Word03)> apply
Form Reset (that works)> insert StyleRef into Header> Lock the Form> Test,
and then... What happens is the first word, whether it's one character or
20, is formatted with the MS Mincho font and the following words, after the
first space, is formatted with my Normal Paragraph Font. *sigh*
I don't think other languages are installed and I'm not sure where to go to
check. I tried uninstalling both MS Mincho and MS Gothic and my PC says it
can't uninstall them cause another program is using it (not sure which).
I'll reboot in safe mode and see if I can get rid of them and try this again.
--
I would give my left hand to be ambidextrous!
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Though that might actually do just the opposite of what you want. <sigh>
--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org
"Dax Arroway" <DaxAr...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:E7EBF5FC-8FA3-406A...@microsoft.com...
Dax Arroway
instead of MS Micho or MS Gothic)
How about any help getting rid of the Chinese IME that Peter mentioned? I
dunno, I'm at a loss here. --Dax
--
I would give my left hand to be ambidextrous!
Dax Arroway
available are \l \n \p \r \t and \w all of which do not control characters.
Is there one that I can add?
Stefan Blom
fields do not.
More importantly, however, in recent versions of Word, form fields and font
formatting may be difficult for the reason explained in the following KB
article: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/828501/en-us ("Incorrect font is
applied after a style is applied to a form field in Word 2007 or in Word
2003").
--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP
"Suzanne S. Barnhill" <sbar...@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:%23ZEnZnE...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>> for forms from now on.
Dax Arroway
unavailable but the issue still remains. This wouldn't change anything, I'm
thinking, because if it were open by another on the server (form is a .dot
available to the company) then what was installed and turned on on the user's
machine would dictate.
What's the CharFormat switch for the StyleRef?
--
I would give my left hand to be ambidextrous!
Stefan Blom
documents.
To add the CHARFORMAT switch to a STYLEREF field, press Alt+F9 to display
field codes. You will see something like this:
{ STYLEREF "style name here" }
Add \* CHARFORMAT at the end of the field code. (If you see \* MERGEFORMAT,
delete it.) Font formatting applied to the field (or actually to the first
character of the field code) will then determine the formatting of the field
result.
--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP
"Dax Arroway" <DaxAr...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:DE9629D2-EAE4-4236...@microsoft.com...
Peter T. Daniels
If so, go to Start > Control Panel > Regional and Language Settings;
IIRC when you choose the Language tab, you'll see a panel with two
check boxes in the lower part, one for Complex Scripts (that means
Hebrew/Arabic/Indic) and one for Asian Scripts. Uncheck the latter.
(Or both,.)
In Vista, the tab is Keyboards and Languages. Go to the Keyboards
section and Remove/Delete the Chinese(/Japanese/Korean) keyboard(s).
You could also uninstall the Arial Unicode font, but then you probably
wouldn't be able to read all that Taiwanese spam.
On Aug 8, 1:09 pm, Dax Arroway <DaxArro...@discussions.microsoft.com>
wrote:
> > > > "Dax Arroway" <DaxArro...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > > > >> "Dax Arroway" <DaxArro...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > > > >> > I would give my left hand to be ambidextrous!-
Lene Fredborg
When testing the form fields before posting last time, I actually forgot
about your original description of the StyleRef problem (my mistake, sorry).
I have now tested more here. What I see here is a bit different from what you
describe (and while I was testing etc., Stefan’s and Suzanne’s most recent
posts appeared…):
I have tried to repeat the exact steps you describe - and I did it more than
once.
My StyleRef field show MS Mincho before I type text in the protected form,
but as soon as I start typing, the font in the StyleRef field is
automatically corrected (i.e. no more MS Mincho here).
I also tried doing things in a different order and with different fonts used
in the underlying paragraph styles in the main body and the header, but the
result was the same: the StyleRef field corrects itself to the correct font
when I start typing in the text form field in the protected form.
So for some unknown reason, I seem be luckier with the final result of the
StyleRef field than you. Unfortunately, I don’t have any good ideas of how to
cure your StyleRef font problem if your font removal does not make any
difference.
-------------------------
Now, a bit later - after having read the KB article (link from Stefan’s
post: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/828501/en-us):
I tried to follow the instructions in the article: First applied the style
(in this case the character style), then created the text form field. If I
placed the cursor at one of the ends of the form field in the unprotected
form, the ”Style” field in the Formatting toolbar shows that the character
style was applied. However, when I selected the entire form field, the
“Style” field was empty, indicating that different styles were in use in the
selection. But the text form field looked OK (correct font). I inserted a
StyleRef field in the header with the correct name of the character style.
Even if formatting marks were shown, the StyleRef field did not reflect the
empty text form field.
I now protected the document and typed text in the form field. BUT the
StyleRef field remained blank (and did not show any error either). First when
I unprotected the document, selected the form field with its text and
reapplied the character style, the text appeared in the StyleRef field. I
could reproduce this behavior (tried a number of times). So the method
described in the KB article may seem to solve the problem but something wrong
is going on under the surface…
I have tested in both Word 2003 and 2007. I have only seen the above
problems in Word 2003 whereas Word 2007 has shown the correct font and style.
--
Regards
Lene Fredborg - Microsoft MVP (Word)
DocTools - Denmark
www.thedoctools.com
Document automation - add-ins, macros and templates for Microsoft Word
Dax Arroway
Insert form field,
Apply character style,
Use Reset Form Fields to get it to switch back to desired font,
Insert StyleRef into pre-formatted paragraph in footer/header,
Ignore false font listing because it will correct itself when the locked
form field has text entered into it.
Lock the doc,
And type into the form to make sure the auto-correct is happening.
I've assigned different fonts to the form fields and left the assigned
footer font and when I type intot he form field, the footer autocorrects to
the footer font. I've changed the footer font from one font to the other and
I get the same results. I think this cracks it. *fingers crossed* We'll
see what happens when I let it out on the server on Monday.
I'd like to thank all who have chimed in on this issue. It's turned into a
party! All your input has been invaluable and I really appreciate your
attention. Thank you!
--Dax Arroway
Beth Melton
languages enabled either. I forget why this occurs and I can't seem to find
an email I once had that provided the reason for it. I do know it wasn’t the
same as the KB article Stefan cited. But I do know the workaround provided
in the article does work and that is to apply the style before you insert
the form field. I noted your document uses direct formatting instead of
styles and I don't recall this occurring with direct formatting. As a matter
of fact that is one of the workarounds. Perhaps it's because the Normal
style has been modified? In any event, if you're not familiar with how to
create a style follow these steps:
- Place your insertion point in the location in one of your text form fields
(this will enable the style to pick up your existing formats)
- From the Format menu, click Styles and Formatting
- On the Styles and Formatting task pane, click New Style
- Provide a name for your style, such as Form Fields
- Verify the formats
- Click OK
Note that it's been awhile since I've used Word 2003 so the above steps and
command names may be slightly different - I'm going on memory. :-)
Then once your Style is created, delete each text form field, apply the
style, and then insert the text form field again. I used this method a lot
when creating forms in Word 2003 so it should work for you. Thankfully you
only have a few text form fields. When I first encountered the issue it was
on three forms, each with over 100 form fields most of which had various
Property changes, macros assigned, every form field was named, etc. Needless
to say I was not a happy camper!
~Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
"Dax Arroway" <DaxAr...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:DE9629D2-EAE4-4236...@microsoft.com...
Lene Fredborg
Actually, I am sure the time I spent testing in relation to your question
will help me later. I have registered the problem many times without taking
the time to really find out what was going on.
Beth Melton
What's really going on is a bug. :-)
I finally located an old email on this issue and this is what I was told
when I reported it:
"The cause is a bug in a “font fix-up” routine. This routine is used when
dealing with Asian fonts. Asian fonts are different in that font
substitution is frequently needed as the fonts are frequently not on the
system, and also in that text written in Asian fonts frequently needs to be
increased in point size to look good in Asian documents. I know this sounds
unrelated to the bug you reported, but the bug is that font fix-up is
running when it shouldn’t."
~Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
"Lene Fredborg" <l...@REMOVETHISthedoctools.com> wrote in message
news:E7C8BD17-2019-4BA4...@microsoft.com...
Beth Melton
If this doesn't work then trying applying the character style before
inserting your form field. That should be enough to correct the issue.
~Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
"Dax Arroway" <DaxAr...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:E5954A24-CC72-4752...@microsoft.com...
Lene Fredborg
precisely what I can expect to happen when - and what to do to compensate for
the wrong behavior.
Hopefully, Microsoft will fix the bug some day since they obviously know
what causes it.
--
Regards
Lene Fredborg - Microsoft MVP (Word)
DocTools - Denmark
www.thedoctools.com
Document automation - add-ins, macros and templates for Microsoft Word
Beth Melton
I'm not able to reproduce this behavior on newly created documents in Word
2007 so it may have been corrected. I know in Word 2002 and 2003 if you
applied a style to a form field and then protected the document you'd see
the font change immediately. Of course I don't know if it will crop up under
specific circumstances in Word 2007 since after my encounter with it I now
apply the styles prior to inserting form fields. It only takes encountering
a bug once and spending hours recreating 100s of form fields to vow to never
allow it to happen again! <grin>
~Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
"Lene Fredborg" <l...@REMOVETHISthedoctools.com> wrote in message
news:4513AF4D-1288-4660...@microsoft.com...
Lene Fredborg
in Word 2007 and until now I have not seen the problem in that version (I
have SP2 installed).
For me, the font changes to MS Mincho in Word 2003 as soon as I apply a
style or press Ctrl+Spacebar (even if there is no direct formatting to
remove). I do not have to protect the document in order to provoke the bug.
Also note that if a StyleRef field is involved, it is not sufficient for me
to follow the instructions in the KB article. Even if I apply the style
first, the StyleRef field does not work correctly - it does not get updated
when typing text in the form field. It only works if I reset the form fields
first (for further details, see the previous post).
And yes, I know the feeling of first spending hours on digging into a
problem and then spending hours or days on making corrections to compensate
for a bug. I have nothing positive to say about how that feels <g>.
Horner@discussions.microsoft.com Caroline Horner
You have to delete the form field and then re-insert it. That seemed to
work for me, but I know what you mean...very frustrating!
I also deleted the MS fonts, but that didn't seem to make a damn bit of
difference.
Let me kow how you go.
Caroline Horner
Stefan Blom
What you have found is implicit in the article: if you have already done it
the "wrong" way, you will have to delete the form fields and start over.
--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP
"Caroline Horner" <Caroline Hor...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:EDA4A5B5-9B70-4A00...@microsoft.com...
>I think I figured it out.
>
> You have to delete the form field and then re-insert it. That seemed to
> work for me, but I know what you mean...very frustrating!
>
> I also deleted the MS fonts, but that didn't seem to make a damn bit of
> difference.
>
> Let me kow how you go.
>
> Caroline Horner
>
> "Lene Fredborg" wrote:
>
>> I understand your sigh!
>>
>> When testing the form fields before posting last time, I actually forgot
>> about your original description of the StyleRef problem (my mistake,
>> sorry).
>> I have now tested more here. What I see here is a bit different from what
>> you
>> describe (and while I was testing etc., Stefan's and Suzanne's most
>> recent
>> posts appeared.):
>> is going on under the surface.
>> > > >> for forms from now on.