How to Defeat XP Activation

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Fred

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May 25, 2002, 2:16:48 PM5/25/02
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The activation requirement is a horrible imposition, and should be
discouraged. I wonder if its defenders would, in all honesty, not mind if
the same deal applied to every single piece of software and they had to
negotiate thirty or forty reactivations after a crash or a few hardware
changes? And hey, maybe someone will think of a way to protect books too.
There's too darn much photocopying going on in violation of copyright law.
Any such a scheme that worked might be a little incovenient for the
owerwhelming majority of people who don't photocopy their books, but don't
the publishers have the right to protect their intellectual property?


HOW TO DEFEAT XP ACTIVATION
I haven't seen any postings about this lately, but the corporate edition of
XP does not require activation. XP Pro can be converted to the corporate
edition by copying its files to the hard drive, copying in a handful of
files from the corporate edition, and then installing. It will never ask
for activation. The files needed are out there in a gazillion locations as
"corpfiles.zip," as you can confirm for yourself with a google search. Of
course, a lot of the links you'll find are broken by now, so persistance is
necessary. Also, if you bought your copy very recently MS may have closed
this door. I only know for sure it worked on a copy purchased in January.

If you truly can't find corpfiles.zip, post that here and I might email you
an html file that has instructions and a few mirror site links to
corpfiles.zip, one of which still works as of today.

If it works for you, enjoy your new freedom guilt-free. This is not WAREZ
and not a CRACK. I don't believe that this is illegal, or even a literal
violation of the license agreement unless you proceed to use one copy for
more than one computer. After all, you are not modifying any files,
reverse engineering, or making any illegal copies. You are,in effect,
deleting some files and putting some other files in the directory. I'll
leave it to the MVP's to dissect the license agreement and contradict me.

When those MVP's jump all over me for this, as they surely will because
that's their obligation as Mircrosoft appointees, they will probably say
that when you download corpfiles.zip you create a copy of a copy which was
made in violation of copyrite laws. Maybe, but just maybe. That issue is
clouded by the rumor that corpfiles.zip was released by Mircrosoft
employees, which makes it a family problem as far as I'm concerned.

One thing I'm personally very sure of, or I wouldn't be posting this--it is
not immoral to defy Microsoft's will on this issue. I think I'll win the
debate on that if anyone takes the bait.

By the way, I don't mean to diss the MVP's. They're nice, helpful guys,
and very knowledgeable. But they couldn't make a post like this even if
they agreed (as I suspect a few might).

--
Fred

Carey

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May 25, 2002, 4:55:11 PM5/25/02
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Comment: "The activation requirement is a horrible imposition, and should be
discouraged."

Response: If you agree to Win XP's EULA, you agree to activate XP within 30 days. If you
do not agree to activate, then do not install Win XP to begin with. Activation takes 30
seconds or less via the internet so what is the "horrible imposition"?

Comment: "XP Pro can be converted to the corporate edition by copying its files to the


hard drive, copying in a handful of
files from the corporate edition, and then installing."

Response: Modifying or reengineering Windows XP is a violation of the EULA, period! Why
be a hypocrite and agree to the EULA and then proceed to violate the agreement? If you
have a problem understanding an agreement, then do not agree to agree with the EULA.
Simple!

Comment: "I don't believe that this is illegal, or even a literal violation of the


license agreement unless you proceed to use one copy for more than one computer. After
all, you are not modifying any files, reverse engineering, or making any illegal copies.
You are,in effect, deleting some files and putting some other files in the directory.

Response: Based on what said, you are in violation of Win XP's EULA and indeed a true
hypocrite!

Comment: One thing I'm personally very sure of, or I wouldn't be posting this--it is


not immoral to defy Microsoft's will on this issue."

Response: It is not immoral to disagree or even voice your thoughts on Microsoft's
Product Activation. However, it is not only immoral but illegal to agree to the EULA and
turn around and violate it.

Comment: "I think I'll win the debate on that if anyone takes the bait."

Response: What is the essence of the debate, attempting to defeat the Activation
requirement outlined in the EULA? Like I mentioned earlier, if you have qualms with
Windows XP's EULA then do not become a hypocrite and agree to it and install XP.
BTW, I'm not a MVP or associated with Microsoft in any fashion. And when I receive a new
bank credit or debit card in the mail, I'm more than happy to activate over my home phone.
And no, I do not lend my cards to others for their enjoyment.

--
Carey Frisch (USA)

Dave

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May 25, 2002, 3:08:50 PM5/25/02
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"Carey" <cnfr...@midsouth.rr.com> wrote in
news:O$AMf5CBCHA.2044@tkmsftngp04:

You are obviously a person of integrity, and I expected to take such flak
initially from people like you.

But maybe you can appreciate that it's the PRINCIPLE is horrible. You
think 30 seconds for XP is fine. I say what if it applied to every piece
of copyrited software including device drivers, etc.?

And before you call me names, please take the time to read, think, and then
accurately quote the part of the EULA you think the use of corpfiles
violates.

---
Fred

UNBREAKABLE

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May 25, 2002, 5:31:02 PM5/25/02
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Carey.... are you getting a pay check from MS? Now really....

I can understand the guy, although if you follow the type of the law, he is incorrect, but laws are here to help people not make them robots. Freedom is the most precious off all things. We have to be careful not to destroy freedom by trying to protect it too hard. You must understand that computing IS windows. You cannot work unless you have windows nowadays. Its the basis of everything, and it will become more so. Can you truly understand the implications of this? Why are you defending the EULA so much? The man is criticizing, and let me tell you that even MS is not sure that they will have activation on all its future products. Consumers want to think and feel that they own a product. This is very important. If consumers stopped buying XP because of the activation thing, MS would give in, but they wont because they need XP or they have no choice because either they get it with the computer or they have no compatible alternative with all the software that's out there.
Did you know that playing a tape in public is against the law? If your neighbors can hear your music YOU have bought then you are breaking the law. The tape you bought is only for your use and only YOU can hear it. Technology can and will be used more and more to control the rights of the creators, may they be programmers or musicians, and control how and when a product will be used. This has some good points and some bad. Science fiction often has become reality, there are many books out there that spotlight what is just starting to happen, and you can imagine what will happen if we take this to the extreme. What I see from you is that you ignore the bad parts... and that is VERY dangerous. I like people that think about something before they just let it be shoved down their throats. You have to be more elastic in the way you think.
I remember once you made fun of me because of a wrong expression. You could not imagine that I could not have the same upbringing as you. English is not the main language of all the world, so mistakes can be made. But still you did not have the ability to imagine that so you criticized. Perhaps you are doing the same with Fred. Although its easy to say that he is totally wrong, things sometimes are more complex that what they seem at first.

Kenny S

"Carey" <cnfr...@midsouth.rr.com> wrote in message news:O$AMf5CBCHA.2044@tkmsftngp04...

Fred Retread

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May 25, 2002, 3:49:11 PM5/25/02
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"UNBREAKABLE" <n...@yet.com> wrote in
news:10223622...@asterix.tee.gr:

Right on, Kenny! Except I disagree that I'm on the wrong side of any law.
I'm a law abider. I stop at all red lights the instant they turn red even
though the current fashion is for the first few cars to go through.

--
Fred

Stoned

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May 25, 2002, 5:50:52 PM5/25/02
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Yeah, I just downloaded Windows XP Professional Corp from my friends ftp, no
activation or anything - And for the versions that need to be activated, I
believe there's a patch where all you have to do is run it anyways. Free
things rock >=)


Bruce Chambers

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May 25, 2002, 6:14:03 PM5/25/02
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Greetings --

Why don't you restrict your thieving techniques to the much more
appropriate "warez" groups? We're not interested.

HTH&GL,

Bruce Chambers
__
The truth of a proposition has nothing to do with its credibility. And
vice versa. -- RAH

"Fred" <FredR...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3cefd...@news1.meganetnews.com


> The activation requirement is a horrible imposition, and should be
> discouraged.

Snipped.........


Carey

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May 25, 2002, 6:16:24 PM5/25/02
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Stoned proclaimed:

Response: At one point I'm sure all the thieves now incarcerated agreed with you at one
time.


--
Carey Frisch (USA)

Computer

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May 25, 2002, 6:34:32 PM5/25/02
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On 25 May 2002 13:16:48 -0500, Fred <FredR...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>The activation requirement is a horrible imposition, and should be
>discouraged.

My view [note the absence of any reply from Mike (MS)] is the
activation schmes is a sham aimed at Joe Average, while totally
ignoring any serious effort to stop those that routinely attempt to
break Windows by transmitting trojans and engaging in other malicious
activites including making untold numbers of illegal copies of Windows
and other software. Of course I'm referring to "hackers" which (no
surprise) easily broke Microsoft's activation scheme and posted a hack
first on a German web site the very day Windows XP was released.

Carey's indignation is misguided. All paying customers of Windows
should be outraged at Microsoft for knowingly giving their archenemies
(hackers) a free pass and trying to fatten their bottom line by
demanding the little guys run out and buy a second copy of Windows
just because some have laptops, etc..

What we're really taking about is corporate GREED. Don't start thowing
up the crap about what it says in the license agreement. If you want
to talk morals, begin with greedy Microsoft which has a long history
of bullying its competitors, playing fast and loose with anti-trust
laws and turning a deaf ear to its hundreds of millions of customers.

Microsoft almost from its start has gotten away with releasing
sloppily written, inadequately tested, crash prone software that is a
hacker's delight to easily mess with in part because Microsoft in its
arrogance has a long history of 'turning on' features not needed, in
effect opening the door making it much easier for hackers and other
lowlifes to gain access to the operating system though well known
unplugged security holes.

Microsoft demaning the little guy run out and buy a second copy of
Windows at full price is pure and simple greed. It is a undefendable
policy when large corporate accounts get deep discounts when they buy
multiple copies. So come on Billy G, stop being so damn greedy. If you
stick with making people buy second or third copies, then give a deep
discount. Home users (the majority of Microsoft's custmer base) should
not have to pay more then $25-50 for a second copy.


Carey

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May 25, 2002, 6:52:56 PM5/25/02
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Ever had any experience with contract law? I have. I have dealt with attorneys and even
a couple of judges in the course of business. When presented with a contract for
signature, virtually everyone of them read the contract thoroughly and asked questions.
When some wished to make revisions to some of the legalese, the answer was no. One cannot
expect to change the body of an agreement without it affecting everyone else and setting a
precedence.

If people believed some agreements and laws don't apply to them, can you imagine what out
society would become? Would you like to invest billions of dollars in developing a
product and then have it made available for free? How long would you be in business?

Another thought....why is Microsoft being sued by the states? Only one answer....money.
The attorneys could care less about monopoly issues, they are after a fat fee from the
deep pockets of Microsoft. I will provide an example.

Recently, lawyers sued the tobacco companies because their products are addictive, cause
health problems and premature death. The tobacco companies settled the lawsuits and paid
billions of dollars to the states. The states were to use the money to care for the
indigent sick and implement anti-tobacco advertising aimed to the young. Guess what
happened to all that money? It was spent on other items and to reduce the states budgets
woes. I have yet to see a lawyer standup and complain that the settlement money is not
going toward its intended purpose. Hypocrites? You bet!

Enough of my rant for now.

A thorough explanation of Microsoft's Product Activation can be found here:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q302878

--
Carey Frisch (USA)

DMS

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May 25, 2002, 7:00:14 PM5/25/02
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Guess what? I pretty much agree with most of what you said. Multiple copies should be cheaper, and some of the coding is sloppy. Bummer. While we're at it, cable TV is a ripoff, digital satellite receivers even more so, so is basic phone service, and my license plates are an outrage considering how little I drive.

You know what else? When I installed XP I agreed to the terms. Didn't have to, and did so of my own free will. As a grown man, in full possession of my faculties, I was hardly bamboozled by MS.

As to hackers? Well, again you're right; they have indeed cracked XP to some extent. So what? A good thief can defeat the security tags in a department store, too -- it's still stealing. The little guy pays for that theft, as well. Doesn't make it "right".

So, I run Linux on one machine, have a full Unix license for two servers, and run XP on another two machines. Two of the machines should have had second licenses cheaper, and one of them (the Unix-for-first-graders machine, a.k.a. Linux), is pretty much worth the nothing it cost.

So, I wish that the world was perfect and that OS's were cheap and that we all got the perfect girl, and that I was allowed to print my own copies of Stephen King novels and sell them out of my trunk (I mean, if we're going to play fast and loose with intellectual property, let's just go hog wild).

Regrettably, the world is not perfect, and as such I'll just have to abide by the agreement I made with MS. Don't have to like it -- but I knew what I was doing. And hell, the software mostly does what it's supposed to, so I can't complain too much.


<Computer G...@oicurmt.com> wrote in message news:hk20fu8s8rkfdrtbj...@4ax.com...

Carey

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May 25, 2002, 7:04:20 PM5/25/02
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Largest Counterfeit Software Seizure in U.S History
http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/go/raids/

How Piracy Impacts You
http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/basics/how/

Top 10 Myths About Product Activation
http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/basics/activation/myths.asp

--
Carey Frisch (USA)

Computer

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May 25, 2002, 7:41:09 PM5/25/02
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On Sat, 25 May 2002 17:52:56 -0500, "Carey" <cnfr...@midsouth.rr.com>
wrote:

>Ever had any experience with contract law? I have. I have dealt with attorneys and even
>a couple of judges in the course of business.

LOL! Carey, nice piece of mindless pontificating. I'll assume by your
choice of words you are NOT an attoney, so PLEASE don't try to play
one. Saying you have dealt with attorneys and (wow) even a couple of
judges offers nothing to your creditability, but for sure does give
your ego a good massage. We're not really talking legal issues, rather
morality and ethics. Maybe you'll next say you know a few catholic
priests. That wouldn't impress me either. <wink>

>When presented with a contract for
>signature, virtually everyone of them read the contract thoroughly and asked questions.
>When some wished to make revisions to some of the legalese, the answer was no. One cannot
>expect to change the body of an agreement without it affecting everyone else and setting a
>precedence.

Totally irrelevant to what we're discussing and you know it.

Oh please... are you trying to suggest most people read word for word
the fine print on the user agreement (concerning use of software)
before clicking the I agree button? Nah, give me a break, Joe Average
would probably be shocked he don't "own" the software he just bought
and instead is just getting a license to use it.

>
>If people believed some agreements and laws don't apply to them, can you imagine what out
>society would become? Would you like to invest billions of dollars in developing a
>product and then have it made available for free? How long would you be in business?

Get off your high horse and at least try to stop being such a blatant
Microsoft apologist. I suspect most people object to the activation
scheme not because they're trying to rip off a copy, rather it is a
royal pain in the ass to bother with in the first place and repeat if
you re install the OS or extensively change your hardware
configuration making it necessary to argue with some mimimum wage
Microsoft flunky trying to convince them all you're doing is upgrading
your system.

Then there are the privacy issues. It is none of Microsoft's business
what my hardware configuration is, what the serial numbers on hardware
I bought are, blah, blah, blah. Shades of big brother.

Lastly while Microsoft may have invested billions in development, they
will reap hundreds of billion selling XP. You would think with that
kind of money in flow they could at least button up the security
leaks. I guess not. <wink>


Xb...@yport.com

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May 25, 2002, 7:42:07 PM5/25/02
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On Sat, 25 May 2002 18:04:20 -0500, "Carey" <cnfr...@midsouth.rr.com>
wrote:

Are you SURE you don't work for Microsoft Carey?


Computer

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May 25, 2002, 8:01:20 PM5/25/02
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On Sat, 25 May 2002 17:00:14 -0600, "DMS" <dse...@SPAMemail.com>
wrote:

>Guess what? I pretty much agree with most of what you said. Multiple copies should be cheaper, and some of the coding is sloppy. Bummer.
>While we're at it, cable TV is a ripoff, digital satellite receivers even more so, so is basic phone service, and my license plates are an outrage considering how little I drive.

So if other companies make sub standard equipment, other software is
buggy, there's nothing worth watching on TV, so oh heck, its OK for
Microsoft to cut corners, reap obscene profits and seeming be unable
to "fix" a OS that has been out since 1985 and is still in many ways
remains broken. I understand, your defense is everyone does it, so why
should we (Microsoft) be any different.

I'll tell you why. Microsoft is a leader. I expect more from a leader.
They should be setting a standard, raising the bar, not worrying about
how to fatten their bank account faster.

The truth is Microsoft in many ways is a house of cards. Many people
buy Windows not because they think it is such a hot OS and surely not
because of Microsoft's infamous screw the customer arrogance, oh no...

Most people buy Windows because they are stuck, having so much Windows
software, they don't really want to switch and no real serious effort
from companies that could compete has been forcoming. Maybe some day
that will change and no I'm not talking Linux. The problem with
Microsoft is it has grown fat, lazy and soft. Management things nobody
ever can unseat them. That's probably what the management of Kodak,
Xerox and Polaroid once thought too. <wink>


Stoned

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May 25, 2002, 8:02:23 PM5/25/02
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[Snip]

> Response: At one point I'm sure all the thieves now incarcerated agreed
with you at one
> time.

Does that imply I'll go to jail? Yeah, I'm sure I will, right after they
catch all those people who have pulled tags off their matress.


DMS

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May 25, 2002, 8:15:04 PM5/25/02
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Again, you are likely correct. And again, I reiterate: I agreed to the license when I bought the product, fully knowing its drawbacks and with complete awareness of the company providing it.

I think it's great that you expect more from a leader. Now all you've got to do is go out there and lead. Show them how it's done! I'll cheer you on the whole way.


<Computer G...@oicurmt.com> wrote in message news:6c80fuk6kn9d3fh74...@4ax.com...

Computer

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May 25, 2002, 8:30:24 PM5/25/02
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On Sat, 25 May 2002 18:15:04 -0600, "DMS" <dse...@SPAMemail.com>
wrote:

>Again, you are likely correct. And again, I reiterate: I agreed to the license when I bought the product, fully knowing its drawbacks and with complete awareness of the company providing it.
>
>I think it's great that you expect more from a leader. Now all you've got to do is go out there and lead. Show them how it's done! I'll cheer you on the whole way.

I can only point the way. If some are too dumb to follow or meekly bow
to Microsoft commandments without question that's not my problem.


Jimmi

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May 25, 2002, 8:31:34 PM5/25/02
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Maybe people wouldn't think about getting something free out of MS , if MS they hadn't
layed the lying crap on the public that XP will be the most dependable operating system so
far. Like some of their good honest customers that can't get their XP OS to work from a
brand new store bought computer. You don't think MS is aware of this and knows we have no
choice because the software we have already purchased is based on XP? Jimmi

"Carey" <cnfr...@midsouth.rr.com> wrote in message news:#2MnpBEBCHA.1340@tkmsftngp02...

UNBREAKABLE

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May 25, 2002, 8:55:43 PM5/25/02
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I know what you are talking about.... but I do not believe that the law we have is perfect. The people that know the law, practice and enforce it are not perfect. Most of the really bad things that have happened to humanity are not from the ignorant of the law, but from people who know the law but twist it. There is a big gap between what should and could be done, and what people want to do. Some people use laws to steal. I have been a victim of this.
I have original versions of XP, and I am glad to pay the small sum needed for a great OS like windows, but that not the point. I would not like to have to activate every product. and MS has opened the way for all the other software companies.
I am afraid we will be transformed into a society that will be monitored and controlled electronically. Microsoft is looking for ways to protect their products. Its fair..... but the activation thing is a bit complicated because if hardware changes then you have to call in.... What happened to me was I had a new PC with windows preinstalled, I tried to activate but I could not. So I had to call in. The MS guy was suspicious of me! Only after he checked the footprint of the 2 activations and he saw that it was from the same machine did he give me another code.... and that took almost 30 mins of explaining on the phone (this includes the automated effort with phone support)!! You know what? I am afraid now to change hardware because I don't want to go through that again... so that computer will remain as it is.... as long as I can have it like that.


"Carey" <cnfr...@midsouth.rr.com> wrote in message news:uFxzR7DBCHA.2164@tkmsftngp04...

UNBREAKABLE

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May 25, 2002, 9:09:48 PM5/25/02
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I have a theory....

MS knew that windows 95 and 98 would be copied. They knew that millions od people would just install it on all their family, friends, coworkers computers. They knew that pirated copies were being sold on every corner of the planet.
THEY WANTED THIS TO HAPPEN!!!
they may have lost millions of dollars but not EVERYONE is dependant on windows. They have won the race!
They still made profit from the original copies AND they are the number one OS on earth.
So NOW, its time to get all the money back. Activation came with XP. Don't you think that they could find a way to make win95 and 98 unbreakable? OR at least unable to be copied? I know other software that had keys and stuff.


SO here is the reason... the time was ripe for MS to make its move.... can you just imagine how much MORE money MS will get out of XP and OFFICE?

Kenny S


"Fred" <FredR...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:3cefd...@news1.meganetnews.com...

JLK

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May 25, 2002, 9:27:21 PM5/25/02
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You can always do what we did here.

We currently have 27 computers, including 2 servers, which were originally
set up with XP. After a few major upgrades we ended up having to reactivate
each machine - what a pain.

The person we ended up speaking to on the phone did not have English as
their first language and it was a real tussle trying to get any sense from
them. After an agonising hour on the phone we finally reached a conclusion.

We got rid of XP from all our machines and now run Mandrake Linux on them.
Took about a week for the staff go get used to the new system.

No more activated software for me!

JLK


"Fred" <FredR...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3cefd...@news1.meganetnews.com...

Marcus

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May 25, 2002, 9:38:41 PM5/25/02
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Don't MS have a way of detected un paid for software ??


"Stoned" <sx...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0HTH8.2468$tv5.13...@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...

Fred Retread

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May 25, 2002, 8:00:45 PM5/25/02
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Computer G...@oicurmt.com wrote in
news:gq60fu8um2t28hkdi...@4ax.com:

> On Sat, 25 May 2002 17:52:56 -0500, "Carey" <cnfr...@midsouth.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Ever had any experience with contract law? I have. I have dealt with
>>attorneys and even a couple of judges in the course of business.
>
> LOL! Carey, nice piece of mindless pontificating. I'll assume by your
> choice of words you are NOT an attoney, so PLEASE don't try to play
> one. Saying you have dealt with attorneys and (wow) even a couple of
> judges offers nothing to your creditability, but for sure does give
> your ego a good massage. We're not really talking legal issues, rather
> morality and ethics. Maybe you'll next say you know a few catholic

> priests. That wouldn't impress me either. <wink> ...

Hey Guy, nice to know you're out there!

--
Fred

Fred Retread

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May 25, 2002, 8:13:24 PM5/25/02
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"DMS" <dse...@SPAMemail.com> wrote in news:#kBeYAEBCHA.2540@tkmsftngp05:

>
> So, I wish that the world was perfect and that OS's were cheap and that
> we all got the perfect girl, and that I was allowed to print my own
> copies of Stephen King novels and sell them out of my trunk (I mean, if
> we're going to play fast and loose with intellectual property, let's
> just go hog wild).
>

Hey DMS, let's go hog wild the other way and protect those Sephen King
intellectual property rights by requiring you to swipe a publisher-issued
barcode across it before you can open the book each time. That will make
it harder for non-paying customers to read it. With little more tecnology,
they could even monitor how fast you read and when you like to read. That
would make it a better world, huh?

---
Fred

John E.Carty

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May 25, 2002, 10:32:02 PM5/25/02
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"JLK" <[removethis]jlk...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:OsZgmQFBCHA.2552@tkmsftngp05...

> You can always do what we did here.
>
> We currently have 27 computers, including 2 servers, which were originally
> set up with XP. After a few major upgrades we ended up having to
reactivate
> each machine - what a pain.
>
> The person we ended up speaking to on the phone did not have English as
> their first language and it was a real tussle trying to get any sense from
> them. After an agonising hour on the phone we finally reached a
conclusion.
>
> We got rid of XP from all our machines and now run Mandrake Linux on them.
> Took about a week for the staff go get used to the new system.
>
> No more activated software for me!
>
> JLK
>
>

If you really have that many machines running XP then why in the world would
you need to re-activate them? You should have a Corporate license (cheaper)
and not need to activate at all :-)


Tom

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May 25, 2002, 10:48:05 PM5/25/02
to
It was a poorly constructed lie.

Tom

"John E.Carty" <jca...@NOSPAM.austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:COXH8.137591$Q42.6...@typhoon.austin.rr.com...


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Computer

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May 25, 2002, 11:00:46 PM5/25/02
to
On 25 May 2002 19:13:24 -0500, Fred Retread
<FredR...@bogusaddress.com> wrote:

If all the intellectual property rights laws on the books were
enforced to the letter, 99% of the world's population would be guilty
of something. Every library I ever visited has a photocopy machine and
every day people violate copyright laws tens of millions of times.

What we're really talking about is corporate greed. A good percentage
of the top rock and roll songs written in the 50's-60's were written
by unknown musicians who either got a small fee or nothing while the
big record companies made tens of millions on each song. The very same
companies that bitch and scream if you got a copy for your own use off
Napster. Technically you're not allowed to video tape a movie off TV.
Who here hasn't done that or rip a CD?

Many software license agreements are too restrictive, probably because
they were written by attorneys. Is there a more greedy bunch?

To carry it to extreme if you buy a newspaper does that mean your wife
can't look at it and she has to buy her own copy?

How about restricting the use of your phone, your TV, stereo so only
you can use them. After all if you buy the bull crap Carey spouted
lots of money went into the development of each and it would only be
fair for the companies to reap extra profits if your neighbors came
over for the evening and watched your TV. Shouldn't they pay a use fee
and forward it to the TV Manufacturer? Now lets really get silly.
What's stopping Microsoft from demanding if your kids use the one PC
you got they have to get their own copy of Windows or maybe Microsoft
will start charging to view movies if you see them on Media Player.


Carey

unread,
May 25, 2002, 11:04:20 PM5/25/02
to
Don't be surprised that one day, upon downloading an update from the Windows Update site,
that upon reboot, you cannot access your XP O/S because it was an unauthorized, pirated
version. And you'll have no legal leg to stand on. This has already happened with those
running a pirated version of Office 2000. Download and install SP1 for Office 2000 and
one can no longer open the program. And Microsoft has every right to do this.

Moral of the story: Honesty is the best policy!

--
Carey Frisch (USA)

Carey

unread,
May 25, 2002, 11:10:01 PM5/25/02
to
"We currently have 27 computers, including 2 servers, which were originally
set up with XP. After a few major upgrades we ended up having to reactivate
each machine - what a pain."

Response: Your entire IT department should have been dismissed because they choose the
wrong licensing for your computing environment! Corporate licensing does not require
activation. I believe you made up this scenario or your IT department lives in a cave in
Afghanistan.


--
Carey Frisch (USA)

Fred Retread

unread,
May 25, 2002, 9:17:29 PM5/25/02
to
Computer G...@oicurmt.com wrote in
news:p7i0fugd84ls4uamt...@4ax.com:

>
> If all the intellectual property rights laws on the books were
> enforced to the letter, 99% of the world's population would be guilty
> of something. Every library I ever visited has a photocopy machine and
> every day people violate copyright laws tens of millions of times.
>
> What we're really talking about is corporate greed. A good percentage
> of the top rock and roll songs written in the 50's-60's were written
> by unknown musicians who either got a small fee or nothing while the
> big record companies made tens of millions on each song. The very same
> companies that bitch and scream if you got a copy for your own use off
> Napster. Technically you're not allowed to video tape a movie off TV.
> Who here hasn't done that or rip a CD?
>
> Many software license agreements are too restrictive, probably because
> they were written by attorneys. Is there a more greedy bunch?
>
> To carry it to extreme if you buy a newspaper does that mean your wife
> can't look at it and she has to buy her own copy?
>
> How about restricting the use of your phone, your TV, stereo so only
> you can use them. After all if you buy the bull crap Carey spouted
> lots of money went into the development of each and it would only be
> fair for the companies to reap extra profits if your neighbors came
> over for the evening and watched your TV. Shouldn't they pay a use fee
> and forward it to the TV Manufacturer? Now lets really get silly.
> What's stopping Microsoft from demanding if your kids use the one PC
> you got they have to get their own copy of Windows or maybe Microsoft
> will start charging to view movies if you see them on Media Player.
>

You know, part of the problem is that people confuse intellectual property
rights with real property rights. That's where all this self-righteous
moral ferver is coming from. But that rates its own thread.

---
Fred

Computer

unread,
May 25, 2002, 11:30:10 PM5/25/02
to
On Sat, 25 May 2002 22:04:20 -0500, "Carey" <cnfr...@midsouth.rr.com>
wrote:

>Don't be surprised that one day, upon downloading an update from the Windows Update site,

I'm starting to get offended with your constant implying some are
using pirated copies of Windows or your morals are higher then others.
I paid for the two versions of XP Pro I have. Would you like me to
post my activation codes as proof?

May I suggest you seriously consider changing your nick to brownnose.


DMS

unread,
May 25, 2002, 11:28:39 PM5/25/02
to
Sure, you could go ahead and do that. Now, to be sure, I wouldn't buy the book if those were the conditions of purchase. You are only bound by the choices you make. I wouldn't buy a book under those conditions. There are aspects of the sattelite dish agreements that keep me from installing one -- again, my choice, although I think it would be neat to have one.

On the other hand, as I mentioned initially, I willingly purchased and installed XP with an understanding of the EULA stipulations. My corp. purchased their license with the same understanding. Now, folks can whine all they want about having "no options." Although there are other OS users, plenty of Apple users, and even some Unix folks like myself who would beg to differ.

Did we love every aspect? Nope. Can't stand Netware's agreement either. But, we nonetheless agreed. I'm not a huge MS fan. Never claimed to be. But I'm not about to whine about something that I willingly agreed to.

"Fred Retread" <FredR...@bogusaddress.com> wrote in message news:Xns9219E257E2069Fr...@66.40.56.31...

terri stratton

unread,
May 25, 2002, 11:34:26 PM5/25/02
to
If you insist on posting to multiple groups, then crosspost. Not really
sure why you feel that one post isn't enough.

Although crossposting is frowned upon, multiple posts are even more so.
--
Terri Stratton
Microsoft MVP - Windows XP
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - http://microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/default.asp

"UNBREAKABLE" <n...@yet.com> wrote in message
news:10223754...@asterix.tee.gr...

Computer

unread,
May 25, 2002, 11:38:40 PM5/25/02
to
On 25 May 2002 20:17:29 -0500, Fred Retread
<FredR...@bogusaddress.com> wrote:


I think a good deal of the phony self-righteous grandstanding comes
from two groups

a. MVP's that think they have to defend Microsoft policy.

b. those wishing to become MVP's and hoping to get on good terms with
Microsoft observers the are always lurking in the bushes.

LOL!

Fred Retread

unread,
May 25, 2002, 10:03:41 PM5/25/02
to
Computer G...@oicurmt.com wrote in
news:vvl0fuo41gv9euuss...@4ax.com:

> I think a good deal of the phony self-righteous grandstanding comes
> from two groups
>
> a. MVP's that think they have to defend Microsoft policy.

I think it might be that Patty Hearst syndrome, where you start to identify
with you captors. What's that called again?

>
> b. those wishing to become MVP's and hoping to get on good terms with
> Microsoft observers the are always lurking in the bushes.

Well, we all need a dream, Guy. 8>)

__
Fred

Carey

unread,
May 26, 2002, 12:07:41 AM5/26/02
to
I cannot see the sense of carrying on a quasi- intellectual discussion with those who
appear to be lacking comprehensive reading skills. I once again reiterate: if you cannot
agree with the terms and conditions associated with acquiring and using a product, then
move on to a product whose terms and conditions you are comfortable with.

--
Carey Frisch (USA)

Fred Retread

unread,
May 25, 2002, 10:23:06 PM5/25/02
to
"DMS" <dse...@SPAMemail.com> wrote in news:upbaYVGBCHA.2540@tkmsftngp05:

> Sure, you could go ahead and do that. Now, to be sure, I wouldn't buy
> the book if those were the conditions of purchase. You are only bound
> by the choices you make.

Wrong. The truth is, we are often bound by the choices the majority makes.
Because when they thoughtlessly go along and thereby help to validate and
enable the self-motivated and intrusive initiatives of business and
government, the other options disappear. Remember when banks used to pay
YOU for the priviledge of holding your money? Remember when you could get
the same discounts as anyone else without a bar-coded store card that
tracks your purchases? Remember when the only ones who could ask for your
SSAN were your employer and the IRS? The list goes on.

>I wouldn't buy a book under those conditions.

Some day it will be either that or go without books, if we don't resist
trends.


> On the other hand, as I mentioned initially, I willingly purchased and
> installed XP with an understanding of the EULA stipulations.

Me too. And my understanding is that activation is not required by the
agreement.

--
Fred

Fred Retread

unread,
May 25, 2002, 10:28:27 PM5/25/02
to
"Carey" <cnfr...@midsouth.rr.com> wrote in
news:eee$KrGBCHA.1340@tkmsftngp02:

Carey, once more...very slowly:

The....XP....EULA....as....written....does....not....require....activation

....and....I....do....agree....with....those....terms.

--
Fred

Carey

unread,
May 26, 2002, 12:39:33 AM5/26/02
to
Fred said: "And my understanding is that activation is not required by the agreement".

Wrong Fred. Here is an actual "snipe" from Win XP's EULA:

" Mandatory Activation. The license rights granted under this
EULA are limited to the first thirty (30) days after
you first install the Product unless you supply
information required to activate your licensed copy in
the manner described during the setup sequence of the
Product. You can activate the Product through the use
of the Internet or telephone; toll charges may apply.
You may also need to reactivate the Product if you modify
your computer hardware or alter the Product. There are
technological measures in this Product that are designed
to prevent unlicensed or illegal use of the Product.
You agree that we may use those measures."

And here is the EULA in its entirety (Win XP Pro only):

Microsoft Windows XP Professional

END-USER LICENSE AGREEMENT

IMPORTANT-READ CAREFULLY: This End-User
License Agreement ("EULA") is a legal agreement between you
(either an individual or a single entity) and Microsoft
Corporation for the Microsoft software product identified above,
which includes computer software and may include associated
media, printed materials, "online" or electronic documentation,
and Internet-based services ("Product"). An amendment or
addendum to this EULA may accompany the Product. YOU AGREE TO BE
BOUND BY THE TERMS OF THIS EULA BY
INSTALLING, COPYING, OR OTHERWISE USING THE
PRODUCT. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE, DO NOT INSTALL
OR USE THE PRODUCT; YOU MAY RETURN IT TO YOUR
PLACE OF PURCHASE FOR A FULL REFUND.

1. GRANT OF LICENSE. Microsoft grants you the following rights
provided that you comply with all terms and conditions of
this EULA:

* Installation and use. You may install, use, access,
display and run one copy of the Product on a single
computer, such as a workstation, terminal or other device
("Workstation Computer"). The Product may not be used
by more than two (2) processors at any one time on any
single Workstation Computer. You may permit a maximum
of ten (10) computers or other electronic devices (each
a "Device") to connect to the Workstation Computer to
utilize the services of the Product solely for File and
Print services, Internet Information Services, and remote
access (including connection sharing and telephony
services). The ten connection maximum includes any
indirect connections made through "multiplexing" or other
software or hardware which pools or aggregates
connections. Except as otherwise permitted by the
NetMeeting, Remote Assistance, and Remote Desktop
features described below, you may not use the Product
to permit any Device to use, access, display or run other
executable software residing on the Workstation Computer,
nor may you permit any Device to use, access, display,
or run the Product or Product's user interface, unless
the Device has a separate license for the Product.

* Mandatory Activation. The license rights granted under this
EULA are limited to the first thirty (30) days after
you first install the Product unless you supply
information required to activate your licensed copy in
the manner described during the setup sequence of the
Product. You can activate the Product through the use
of the Internet or telephone; toll charges may apply.
You may also need to reactivate the Product if you modify
your computer hardware or alter the Product. There are
technological measures in this Product that are designed
to prevent unlicensed or illegal use of the Product.
You agree that we may use those measures.

* Storage/Network Use. You may also store or install a copy
of the Product on a storage device, such as a network
server, used only to install or run the Product on your
other Workstation Computers over an internal network;
however, you must acquire and dedicate an additional
license for each separate Workstation Computer on or
from which the Product is installed, used, accessed,
displayed or run. A license for the Product may not be
shared or used concurrently on different Workstation
Computers.

* Reservation of Rights. Microsoft reserves all rights not
expressly granted to you in this EULA.

2. UPGRADES. To use a Product identified as an upgrade, you must
first be licensed for the product identified by Microsoft
as eligible for the upgrade. After upgrading, you may no
longer use the product that formed the basis for your
upgrade eligibility.

3. ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE/SERVICES. This EULA
applies to updates, supplements, add-on components,
or Internet-based services components, of the Product that
Microsoft may provide to you or make available to you after
the date you obtain your initial copy of the Product,
unless we provide other terms along with the update,
supplement, add-on component, or Internet-based services
component. Microsoft reserves the right to discontinue any
Internet-based services provided to you or made available
to you through the use of the Product. This EULA does not
grant you any rights to use the Windows Media Format
Software Development Kit ("WMFSDK") components contained
in the Product to develop a software application that uses
Windows Media technology. If you wish to use the WMFSDK
to develop such an application, visit
http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/imedia/windowsmedia/sdk/wmsdk.asp,
accept a separate license for the WMFSDK, download the
appropriate WMFSDK, and install it on your system.

4. TRANSFER-Internal. You may move the Product to a different
Workstation Computer. After the transfer, you must
completely remove the Product from the former Workstation
Computer. Transfer to Third Party. The initial user of the
Product may make a one-time transfer of the Product to
another end user. The transfer has to include all
component parts, media, printed materials, this EULA, and
if applicable, the Certificate of Authenticity. The
transfer may not be an indirect transfer, such as a
consignment. Prior to the transfer, the end user receiving
the transferred Product must agree to all the EULA terms.
No Rental. You may not rent, lease, lend or provide
commercial hosting services to third parties with the
Product.

5. LIMITATION ON REVERSE ENGINEERING,
DECOMPILATION, AND DISASSEMBLY. You may
not reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the
Product, except and only to the extent that it is expressly
permitted by applicable law notwithstanding this
limitation.

6. TERMINATION. Without prejudice to any other rights, Microsoft
may cancel this EULA if you do not abide by the terms and
conditions of this EULA, in which case you must destroy all
copies of the Product and all of its component parts.

7. DESCRIPTION OF OTHER RIGHTS AND
LIMITATIONS.

* NetMeeting/Remote Assistance/Remote Desktop Features. The
Product contains NetMeeting, Remote Assistance, and
Remote Desktop technologies that enable the Product or
other applications installed on the Workstation Computer
to be used remotely between two or more computers, even
if the Product or application is installed on only one
Workstation Computer. You may use NetMeeting, Remote
Assistance, and Remote Desktop with all Microsoft products;
provided however, use of these technologies with
certain Microsoft products may require an additional
license. For Microsoft and non-Microsoft products, you
should consult the license agreement accompanying the
applicable product or contact the applicable licensor
to determine whether use of NetMeeting, Remote
Assistance, or Remote Desktop is permitted without an
additional license.

* Consent to Use of Data. You agree that Microsoft and its
affiliates may collect and use technical information
gathered in any manner as part of the product support
services provided to you, if any, related to the Product.
Microsoft may use this information solely to improve
our products or to provide customized services or
technologies to you. Microsoft may disclose this
information to others, but not in a form that personally
identifies you.

* Internet Gaming/Update Features. If you choose to utilize
the Internet gaming or update features within the
Product, it is necessary to use certain computer system,
hardware, and software information to implement the
features. By using these features, you explicitly
authorize Microsoft or its designated agent to access
and utilize the necessary information for Internet gaming
and/or updating purposes. Microsoft may use this
information solely to improve our products or to provide
customized services or technologies to you. Microsoft
may disclose this information to others, but not in a
form that personally identifies you.

* Internet-Based Services Components. The Product contains
components that enable and facilitate the use of certain
Internet-based services. You acknowledge and agree that
Microsoft may automatically check the version of the
Product and/or its components that you are utilizing
and may provide upgrades or fixes to the Product that
will be automatically downloaded to your Workstation
Computer.

* Security Updates. Content providers are using the digital
rights management technology ("Microsoft DRM") contained
in this Product to protect the integrity of their content
("Secure Content") so that their intellectual property,
including copyright, in such content is not misappropriated. Owners of
such Secure Content ("Secure Content Owners") may, from
time to time, request Microsoft to provide security
related updates to the Microsoft DRM components of the
Product ("Security Updates") that may affect your ability
to copy, display and/or play Secure Content through
Microsoft software or third party applications that
utilize Microsoft DRM. You therefore agree that, if
you elect to download a license from the Internet which
enables your use of Secure Content, Microsoft may, in
conjunction with such license, also download onto your
computer such Security Updates that a Secure Content
Owner has requested that Microsoft distribute. Microsoft
will not retrieve any personally identifiable
information, or any other information, from your computer
by downloading such Security Updates.

8. NOT FOR RESALE SOFTWARE. Product
identified as "Not for Resale" or "NFR," may not be resold,
transferred or used for any purpose other than
demonstration, test or evaluation.

9. ACADEMIC EDITION SOFTWARE. To use
Product identified as "Academic Edition" or "AE," you must
be a "Qualified Educational User." For qualification-
related questions, please contact the Microsoft Sales
Information Center/One Microsoft Way/Redmond, WA 98052-6399
or the Microsoft subsidiary serving your country.

10. EXPORT RESTRICTIONS.
You acknowledge that the Product is of U.S. origin and
subject to U.S. export jurisdiction. You agree to comply
with all applicable international and national laws that
apply to the Product, including the U.S. Export
Administration Regulations, as well as end-user, end-use,
and destination restrictions issued by U.S. and other
governments. For additional information see
<http://www.microsoft.com/exporting/>.

11. LIMITED WARRANTY FOR PRODUCT ACQUIRED IN
THE US AND CANADA.

Microsoft warrants that the Product will perform
substantially in accordance with the accompanying
materials for a period of ninety days from the date of
receipt.

If an implied warranty or condition is created by
your state/jurisdiction and federal or state/provincial law
prohibits disclaimer of it, you also have an implied
warranty or condition, BUT ONLY AS
TO DEFECTS DISCOVERED DURING THE PERIOD
OF THIS LIMITED WARRANTY (NINETY DAYS).
AS TO ANY DEFECTS DISCOVERED AFTER THE
NINETY (90) DAY PERIOD, THERE IS NO
WARRANTY OR CONDITION OF ANY KIND.
Some states/jurisdictions do not allow limitations on how
long an implied warranty or condition lasts, so the above
limitation may not apply to you.

Any supplements or updates to the Product, including without
limitation, any (if any) service packs or hot fixes
provided to you after the expiration of the ninety day
Limited Warranty period are not covered by any warranty or
condition, express, implied or statutory.

LIMITATION ON REMEDIES; NO CONSEQUENTIAL
OR OTHER DAMAGES. Your exclusive remedy for any breach
of this Limited Warranty is as set forth below. Except
for any refund elected by Microsoft, YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED
TO ANY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT
LIMITED TO CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, if
the Product does not meet Microsoft's Limited Warranty,
and, to the maximum extent allowed by applicable law, even
if any remedy fails of its essential purpose. The terms
of Section 13 below ("Exclusion of Incidental,
Consequential and Certain Other Damages") are also
incorporated into this Limited Warranty. Some states/
jurisdictions do not allow the exclusion or limitation
of incidental or consequential damages, so the above
limitation or exclusion may not apply to you. This
Limited Warranty gives you specific legal rights. You
may have others which vary from state/jurisdiction to
state/jurisdiction. YOUR EXCLUSIVE REMEDY. Microsoft's
and its suppliers' entire liability and your exclusive
remedy shall be, at Microsoft's option from time to time
exercised subject to applicable law, (a) return of the
price paid (if any) for the Product, or (b) repair or
replacement of the Product, that does not meet this
Limited Warranty and that is returned to Microsoft with
a copy of your receipt. You will receive the remedy
elected by Microsoft without charge, except that you are
responsible for any expenses you may incur (e.g. cost of
shipping the Product to Microsoft). This Limited Warranty
is void if failure of the Product has resulted from
accident, abuse, misapplication, abnormal use or a virus.
Any replacement Product will be warranted for the
remainder of the original warranty period or thirty (30)
days, whichever is longer. Outside the United States or
Canada, neither these remedies nor any product support
services offered by Microsoft are available without proof
of purchase from an authorized international source. To
exercise your remedy, contact: Microsoft, Attn. Microsoft
Sales Information Center/One Microsoft Way/Redmond, WA
98052-6399, or the Microsoft subsidiary serving
your country.

LIMITED WARRANTY FOR PRODUCT ACQUIRED
OUTSIDE THE US or CANADA.
FOR THE LIMITED WARRANTIES AND SPECIAL
PROVISIONS PERTAINING TO YOUR PARTICULAR
JURISDICTION, PLEASE REFER TO YOUR WARRANTY
BOOKLET INCLUDED WITH THIS PACKAGE OR
PROVIDED WITH THE SOFTWARE PRODUCT
PRINTED MATERIALS.

12. DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTIES. The Limited
Warranty that appears above is the only express warranty
made to you and is provided in lieu of any other express
warranties (if any) created by any documentation,
packaging, or other communications. Except for the Limited
Warranty and to the maximum extent permitted by applicable
law, Microsoft and its suppliers provide the Product and
support services (if any) AS IS AND WITH ALL FAULTS, and
hereby disclaim all other warranties and conditions, either
express, implied or statutory, including, but not limited
to, any (if any) implied warranties, duties or conditions
of merchantability, of fitness for a particular purpose,
of reliability or availability, of accuracy or completeness
of responses, of results, of workmanlike effort, of lack
of viruses, and of lack of negligence, all with regard to
the Product, and the provision of or failure to provide
support or other services, information, software, and
related content through the Product or otherwise arising
out of the use of the Product. ALSO, THERE IS NO WARRANTY
OR CONDITION OF TITLE, QUIET ENJOYMENT,
QUIET POSSESSION, CORRESPONDENCE TO
DESCRIPTION OR NON-INFRINGEMENT WITH
REGARD TO THE PRODUCT.

13. EXCLUSION OF INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL
AND CERTAIN OTHER DAMAGES. TO THE
MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE
LAW, IN NO EVENT SHALL MICROSOFT OR ITS
SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL,
INCIDENTAL, PUNITIVE, INDIRECT, OR
CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES WHATSOEVER
(INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES
FOR LOSS OF PROFITS OR CONFIDENTIAL OR
OTHER INFORMATION, FOR BUSINESS
INTERRUPTION, FOR PERSONAL INJURY, FOR
LOSS OF PRIVACY, FOR FAILURE TO MEET
ANY DUTY INCLUDING OF GOOD FAITH OR OF
REASONABLE CARE, FOR NEGLIGENCE, AND
FOR ANY OTHER PECUNIARY OR OTHER LOSS
WHATSOEVER) ARISING OUT OF OR IN ANY
WAY RELATED TO THE USE OF OR INABILITY
TO USE THE PRODUCT, THE PROVISION OF
OR FAILURE TO PROVIDE SUPPORT OR OTHER
SERVICES, INFORMATON, SOFTWARE, AND
RELATED CONTENT THROUGH THE PRODUCT OR
OTHERWISE ARISING OUT OF THE USE OF THE
PRODUCT, OR OTHERWISE UNDER OR IN
CONNECTION WITH ANY PROVISION OF THIS
EULA, EVEN IN THE EVENT OF THE FAULT,
TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE), STRICT
LIABILITY, BREACH OF CONTRACT OR BREACH
OF WARRANTY OF MICROSOFT OR ANY
SUPPLIER, AND EVEN IF MICROSOFT OR ANY
SUPPLIER HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.

14. LINKS TO THIRD PARTY SITES. You may link
to third party sites through the use of the Product. The
third party sites are not under the control of Microsoft,
and Microsoft is not responsible for the contents of any
third party sites, any links contained in third party
sites, or any changes or updates to third party sites.
Microsoft is not responsible for webcasting or any other
form of transmission received from any third party sites.
Microsoft is providing these links to third party sites to
you only as a convenience, and the inclusion of any link
does not imply an endorsement by Microsoft of the third
party site.

15. LIMITATION OF LIABILITY AND REMEDIES.
Notwithstanding any damages that you might incur for any
reason whatsoever (including, without limitation, all
damages referenced above and all direct or general
damages), the entire liability of Microsoft and any of its
suppliers under any provision of this EULA and your
exclusive remedy for all of the foregoing (except for any
remedy of repair or replacement elected by Microsoft with
respect to any breach of the Limited Warranty) shall be
limited to the greater of the amount actually paid by you
for the Product or U.S.$5.00. The foregoing limitations,
exclusions and disclaimers (including Sections 11, 12 and
13 above) shall apply to the maximum extent permitted by
applicable law, even if any remedy fails its
essential purpose.

16. U.S. GOVERNMENT LICENSE RIGHTS. All
Product provided to the U.S. Government pursuant to
solicitations issued on or after December 1, 1995 is
provided with the commercial license rights and
restrictions described elsewhere herein. All Product
provided to the U.S. Government pursuant to solicitations
issued prior to December 1, 1995 is provided with
"Restricted Rights" as provided for in FAR, 48 CFR 52.227-14
(JUNE 1987) or DFAR, 48 CFR 252.227-7013 (OCT 1988),
as applicable.

17. APPLICABLE LAW. If you acquired this Product in the United
States, this EULA is governed by the laws of the State of
Washington. If you acquired this Product in Canada, unless
expressly prohibited by local law, this EULA is governed
by the laws in force in the Province of Ontario, Canada;
and, in respect of any dispute which may arise hereunder,
you consent to the jurisdiction of the federal and
provincial courts sitting in Toronto, Ontario. If this
Product was acquired outside the United States, then local
law may apply.

18. ENTIRE AGREEMENT. This EULA (including
any addendum or amendment to this EULA which is included
with the Product) are the entire agreement between you and
Microsoft relating to the Product and the support services
(if any) and they supersede all prior or contemporaneous
oral or written communications, proposals and
representations with respect to the Product or any other
subject matter covered by this EULA. To the extent the
terms of any Microsoft policies or programs for support
services conflict with the terms of this EULA, the terms
of this EULA shall control.

19. The Product is protected by copyright and other intellectual
property laws and treaties. Microsoft or its suppliers own
the title, copyright, and other intellectual property
rights in the Product. The Product is licensed, not sold.

Si vous avez acquis votre produit Microsoft au CANADA, la
garantie limitée suivante vous concerne :

GARANTIE LIMITÉE

Microsoft garantit que le Produit fonctionnera conformément aux
documents qui l'accompagnent pendant une période de 90 jours
suivant la date de réception.

Si une garantie ou condition implicite est créée par votre État
ou votre territoire et qu'une loi fédérale, provinciale ou
étatique en interdit le déni, vous jouissez également d'une
garantie ou condition implicite,
MAIS UNIQUEMENT POUR LES DÉFAUTS DÉCOUVERTS
DURANT LA PÉRIODE DE LA PRÉSENTE GARANTIE
LIMITÉE (QUATRE-VINGT-DIX JOURS). IL N'Y A
AUCUNE GARANTIE OU CONDITION DE QUELQUE
NATURE QUE CE SOIT QUANT AUX DÉFAUTS
DÉCOUVERTS APRÈS CETTE PÉRIODE DE QUATR
E-VINGT-DIX JOURS. Certains États ou territoires ne permettent
pas de limiter la durée d'une garantie ou condition implicite de
sorte que la limitation cidessus peut ne pas s'appliquer à vous.

Tous les suppléments ou toutes les mises à jour relatifs au
Produit, y compris notamment (le cas échéant), tous les ensembles
de services ou les réparations à chaud qui vous sont fournis
après l'expiration de la période de quatre-vingt-dix jours de la
garantie limitée ne sont pas couverts par quelque garantie ou
condition que ce soit, expresse,implicite ou en vertu de la loi.

LIMITATION DES RECOURS; ABSENCE DE DOMMAGES
INDIRECTS OU AUTRES. Votre recours exclusif pour toute violation
de la présente garantie limitée est décrit ci-après. Sauf pour
tout remboursement au choix de Microsoft, si le Produit ne
respecte pas la garantie limitée de Microsoft et, dans toute la
mesure permise par le droit applicable, même si tout recours
n'atteint pas son but essentiel, VOUS N'AVEZ DROIT À AUCUNS
DOMMAGES, NOTAMMENT DES DOMMAGES INDIRECTS.
Les modalités de la clause "Exclusion des dommages accessoires,
indirects et de certains autres dommages " sont également
incorporées à la présente garantie limitée. Certains États ou
territoires ne permettent pas l'exclusion ou la limitation des
dommages indirects ou accessoires de sorte que la limitation ou
l'exclusion ci-dessus peut ne pas s'appliquer à vous. La présente
garantie limitée vous donne des droits légaux spécifiques. Vous
pouvez avoir d'autres droits qui peuvent varier d'un territoire
ou d'un État à un autre. VOTRE RECOURS
EXCLUSIF. La responsabilité intégrale de Microsoft et de ses
fournisseurs et votre recours exclusif seront, selon le choix de
Microsoft de temps à autre sous réserve de toute loi applicable,
a) le remboursement du prix payé, le cas échéant, pour le Produit
ou b) la réparation ou le remplacement du Produit qui ne respecte
pas la présente garantie limitée et qui est retourné à Microsoft
avec une copie de votre reçu. Vous recevrez la compensation
choisie par Microsoft, sans frais, sauf que vous êtes responsable
des dépenses que vous pourriez engager (p. ex., les frais d'envoi
du Produit à Microsoft). La présente garantie limitée est nulle
si la défectuosité du Produit est causée par un accident, un
usage abusif, une mauvaise application, un usage anormal ou un
virus. Tout Produit de remplacement sera garanti pour le reste de
la période de garantie initiale ou pendant trente (30) jours,
selon la plus longue entre ces deux périodes. À l'extérieur
des États-Unis ou du Canada, ces recours ou l'un quelconque des
services de soutien technique offerts par Microsoft ne sont pas
disponibles sans preuve d'achat d'une source internationale
autorisée. Pour exercer votre recours, vous devez communiquer
avec Microsoft et vous adresser au Microsoft Sales
Information Center/One Microsoft Way/Redmond, WA 98052-6399, ou à
la filiale de Microsoft de votre pays.

DÉNI DE GARANTIES. La garantie limitée qui apparaît ci-dessus
constitue la seule garantie expresse qui vous est donnée et
remplace toutes autres garanties expresses (s'il en est)
mentionnées dans tout document, emballage ou autre communication.
Sauf en ce qui a trait à la garantie limitée et dans toute la
mesure permise par le droit applicable, le Produit et les
services de soutien technique (le cas échéant) sont fournis TELS
QUELS ET AVEC TOUS LEURS DÉFAUTS par
Microsoft et ses fournisseurs, lesquels par les présentes dénient
toutes autres garanties et conditions expresses, implicites ou en
vertu de la loi, y compris notamment (le cas échéant) les
garanties, devoirs ou conditions implicites de qualité marchande,
d'adaptation à une fin particulière, de fiabilité ou
disponibilité, d'exactitude ou d'exhaustivité des réponses, des
résultats, des efforts déployés selon les règles de l'art,
d'absence de virus et de négligence, le tout à l'égard du Produit
et de la prestation des services de soutien technique ou autres
services ou du défaut de fournir une telle prestation, de
l'information, du logiciel, et de tout contenu s'y rapportant à
travers le Produit ou autrement découlant de l'utilisation du
Produit. PAR AILLEURS, IL N'Y A AUCUNE
GARANTIE OU CONDITION QUANT AU TITRE DE
PROPRIÉTÉ, À LA JOUISSANCE OU LA POSSESSION
PAISIBLE, À LA CONCORDANCE À UNE DESCRIPTION
NI QUANT À UNE ABSENCE DE CONTREFAÇON
CONCERNANT LE PRODUIT.

EXCLUSION DES DOMMAGES ACCESSOIRES, INDIRECTS
ET DE CERTAINS AUTRES DOMMAGES. DANS TOUTE LA
MESURE PERMISE PAR LE DROIT APPLICABLE, EN
AUCUN CAS MICROSOFT OU SES FOURNISSEURS NE
SERONT RESPONSABLES DES DOMMAGES SPÉCIAUX,
ACCESSOIRES, EXEMPLAIRES OU INDIRECTS DE
QUELQUE NATURE QUE CE SOIT (Y COMPRIS
NOTAMMENT, LES DOMMAGES À L'ÉGARD DE LA PERTE
DE PROFITS OU DE LA DIVULGATION DE
RENSEIGNEMENTS CONFIDENTIELS OU AUTRES, DE
L'INTERRUPTION DES AFFAIRES, DE BLESSURES
CORPORELLES, DE LA VIOLATION DE LA VIE
PRIVÉE, DE L'OMISSION DE REMPLIR TOUT DEVOIR,
Y COMPRIS D'AGIR DE BONNE FOI OU D'EXERCER UN
SOIN RAISONNABLE, DE LA NÉGLIGENCE ET DE
TOUTE AUTRE PERTE PÉCUNIAIRE OU AUTRE PERTE
DE QUELQUE NATURE QUE CE SOIT) DÉCOULANT OU
SE RAPPORTANT DE QUELQUE MANIÈRE QUE CE SOIT
À L'UTILISATION DU PRODUIT OU À L'INCAPACITÉ
DE S'EN SERVIR, À LA PRESTATION DE SERVICES
DE SOUTIEN TECHNIQUE OU AUTRES SERVICES OU À
L'OMISSION D'UNE TELLE PRESTATION , À
L'INFORMATION, AU LOGICIEL ET À TOUT CONTENU
S'Y RAPPORTANT À TRAVERS LE PRODUIT OU
AUTREMENT DÉCOULANT DE L'UTILISATION DU
PRODUIT OU AUTREMENT AUX TERMES DE TOUTE
DISPOSITION DU PRÉSENT CONTRAT OU
RELATIVEMENT À UNE TELLE DISPOSITION, MÊME EN
CAS DE FAUTE, DE DÉLIT CIVIL (Y COMPRIS LA
NÉGLIGENCE), DE RESPONSABILITÉ STRICTE, DE
VIOLATION DE CONTRAT OU DE VIOLATION DE
GARANTIE DE MICROSOFT OU DE TOUT FOURNISSEUR
ET MÊME SI MICROSOFT OU TOUT FOURNISSEUR A
ÉTÉ AVISÉ DE LA POSSIBILITÉ DE TELS DOMMAGES.

LIMITATION DE RESPONSABILITÉ ET RECOURS.
Malgré les dommages que vous puissiez subir pour quelque motif
que ce soit (y compris notamment, tous les dommages susmentionnés
et tous les dommages directs ou généraux), la responsabilité
intégrale de Microsoft et de l'un ou l'autre de ses fournisseurs
aux termes de toute disposition du présent contrat et votre
recours exclusif à l'égard de tout ce qui précède (sauf en ce qui
concerne tout recours de réparation ou de remplacement choisi par
Microsoft à l'égard de tout manquement à la garantie limitée) se
limite au plus élevé entre les montants suivants : le montant que
vous avez réellement payé pour le Produit ou 5,00 $US. Les
limites, exclusions et dénis qui précèdent (y compris les clauses
ci-dessus), s'appliquent dans la toute la mesure permise par le
droit applicable, même si tout recours n'atteint pas son
but essentiel.

La présente Convention est régie par les lois de la province
d'Ontario, Canada. Vous reconnaissez irrévocablement par la
présente la compétence des tribunaux de la province d'Ontario et
consentez à instituer tout litige qui pourrait découler de la
présente auprès des tribunaux fédéraux ou provinciaux ayant
juridiction pour la ville de Toronto, province d'Ontario.


EULAID:WX.4_PRO_RTL_EN

--
Carey Frisch (USA)

Carey

unread,
May 26, 2002, 12:44:50 AM5/26/02
to
It would be nice to mention which licensing version of Win XP you are referring to. The
retail and OEM versions require activation; the open license versions for 5 or more
workstations do not.

--
Carey Frisch (USA)

JLK

unread,
May 26, 2002, 12:48:13 AM5/26/02
to
It was no cheaper for us at the time, and quite frankly we did not know what
we were doing.


"John E.Carty" <jca...@NOSPAM.austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:COXH8.137591$Q42.6...@typhoon.austin.rr.com...
>

JLK

unread,
May 26, 2002, 12:48:24 AM5/26/02
to
How so?


"Tom" <td...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:D1YH8.51307$y17.3...@news20.bellglobal.com...

JLK

unread,
May 26, 2002, 12:49:40 AM5/26/02
to
Don't have an IT Department. Just a couple of supposed "experts" giving
questionable advice.


"Carey" <cnfr...@midsouth.rr.com> wrote in message

news:uUpc8KGBCHA.2384@tkmsftngp02...

JLK

unread,
May 26, 2002, 12:51:58 AM5/26/02
to
If you care to go back and do a search on Google, you will see I discussed
this issue some months ago at length.


"Tom" <td...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:D1YH8.51307$y17.3...@news20.bellglobal.com...

Fred Retread

unread,
May 25, 2002, 11:33:12 PM5/25/02
to
"Carey" <cnfr...@midsouth.rr.com> wrote in
news:u3eA$8GBCHA.2520@tkmsftngp05:

> Fred said: "And my understanding is that activation is not required by
> the agreement".
>
> Wrong Fred. Here is an actual "snipe" from Win XP's EULA:
>
> " Mandatory Activation. The license rights granted under this
> EULA are limited to the first thirty (30) days after
> you first install the Product unless you supply
> information required to activate your licensed copy in
> the manner described during the setup sequence of the
> Product. You can activate the Product through the use
> of the Internet or telephone; toll charges may apply.
> You may also need to reactivate the Product if you modify
> your computer hardware or alter the Product. There are
> technological measures in this Product that are designed
> to prevent unlicensed or illegal use of the Product.
> You agree that we may use those measures."

I've read the many times, and it is the basis for my saying that activation
is not required. Thanks for posting it.

It says that once I supply the information required for activation, then
the license rights are not limited to thirty days. there is nothing else in
that paragraph that says I have to do anything ever again.

---
Fred

Tom

unread,
May 26, 2002, 6:57:48 AM5/26/02
to
Well, if it was not a lie then it was an admission that you and everyone you
work with are IDIOTS!!!

Tom

"JLK" <[removethis]jlk...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message

news:ewu77AHBCHA.1648@tkmsftngp02...

Dave Johnson

unread,
May 26, 2002, 7:58:41 AM5/26/02
to
On Sat, 25 May 2002 22:04:20 -0500, "Carey" <cnfr...@midsouth.rr.com>
wrote:

>Don't be surprised that one day, upon downloading an update from the Windows Update site,

Apparently MS's lawyers disagree. Certainly not when it comes to
testifying under oath.

Unbreakable

unread,
May 26, 2002, 8:00:30 AM5/26/02
to
nag nag i think ill stop posting.......geesh!

"terri stratton" <Assoc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:uupIoYGBCHA.2572@tkmsftngp05...

Computer

unread,
May 26, 2002, 9:08:47 AM5/26/02
to
On Sat, 25 May 2002 23:07:41 -0500, "Carey" <cnfr...@midsouth.rr.com>
wrote:


So we can assume you'll finally stop your phony self-righteous finger
pointing and stop being a pompous ass?

Good, about time.

Computer

unread,
May 26, 2002, 9:17:23 AM5/26/02
to
On Sat, 25 May 2002 23:07:41 -0500, "Carey" <cnfr...@midsouth.rr.com>
wrote:

>I cannot see the sense of carrying on a quasi- intellectual discussion with those who


You know Carey for someone that boasts he hangs out with attorneys and
even a couple judges it seems you like to pick and choose which "laws"
you actaully follow or maybe you're just a village idiot.

You see by trying to impress us by posting the Microsoft agreement in
full, even in Spanish (ROTFLMAO) you likely violated copyright laws
unless Microsoft gave you written permission to act as their agent.

Well Carey, are you just a garden variety fool, or a Microsoft agent?

Computer

unread,
May 26, 2002, 9:49:32 AM5/26/02
to
On 25 May 2002 22:33:12 -0500, Fred Retread
<FredR...@bogusaddress.com> wrote:


The key sentence is: "You may also need to reactivate the Product if


you modify your computer hardware or alter the Product."

That does not cover a very common event. REINSTALLING Windows to a
UNMODIFIED system. If for whatever reason you need to do a clean
install AFTER you have jumped through the activation hoops and have
made no changes of any kind to your computer you are again forced to
go through the activation steps.

As this newsgroup shows, a common suggestion of MVP's, others, is do a
clean install. Such advice is commonly given as a fix to many
problems.

So over the life of your license of XP, some may reinstall XP, five,
ten, who knows fifty times and again indure the same mindless
activation nonsense each time. How ridicilious!

One simple workaround would be for Windows upon completion of
installation to via the Internet go out to the server that holds
registration information and see if the six key hardware items it uses
to "test" if you're trying to intall the same copy of XP are already
registered to such and such licensee for such and such PC are already
on file. If so no need to bug HONEST paying customers that have
already activated. In effect Windows could and should be able to
activate itself second time forward. Only if changes are detected
should the customer be inconvenienced. Again, what we're really
talking about is the ARROGANCE of Microsoft forcing customers to do
this over and over again.

What I think a lot of people object to, including me, is REPEATED
activation. Once is bad enough.


Computer

unread,
May 26, 2002, 10:02:16 AM5/26/02
to
On Sun, 26 May 2002 06:57:48 -0400, "Tom" <td...@sympatico.ca> wrote:

>Well, if it was not a lie then it was an admission that you and everyone you
>work with are IDIOTS!!!
>
>Tom

You know, some of us have come to that same conclusion about some
people that post to this newsgroup regularly because they make asinine
assumptions like you just did all the time.

I can think of several situations where people would either not be
aware of the corporate multi copy license or simply elect not to go
that route.

Again, Microsoft most likey due to GREED don't really make much noise
such a version is available. In fact they don't tell you at all such a
thing exists in the retail box, preferring to sell one copy at a time
a full price.

You could open the box and have coupon drop out offering such a
upgrade path. Have you seen such a thing Tommy?

Computer

unread,
May 26, 2002, 10:06:26 AM5/26/02
to
On Sun, 26 May 2002 15:00:30 +0300, "Unbreakable" <i...@inc.ible>
wrote:

>nag nag i think ill stop posting.......geesh!
>
>"terri stratton" <Assoc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:uupIoYGBCHA.2572@tkmsftngp05...
>> If you insist on posting to multiple groups, then crosspost. Not really
>> sure why you feel that one post isn't enough.

Remember hall monitors in school? Patrol Boys that helped you across
the street? Terri seems to be one of those odd newsgroup creatures
that gets off pretending to be a newsgroup monitor that will
indignantly tell you how to post and where to post.

Geez, how lame!


UNBREAKABLE

unread,
May 26, 2002, 11:10:06 AM5/26/02
to
IT department???...... HAHAH.... you should say that to someone in greece!

"Carey" <cnfr...@midsouth.rr.com> wrote in message news:uUpc8KGBCHA.2384@tkmsftngp02...

Carey

unread,
May 26, 2002, 11:24:39 AM5/26/02
to
In the near future, I will assemble a blue ribbon panel comprised of four attorneys, four
judges and four Catholic priests. We will discuss the merits of the arguments presented
in this newsgroup thread. If and when a consensus of opinion is achieved, I'll post the
findings and relay a report to Microsoft. Ya'll stayed tuned!

--
Carey Frisch (USA)

Fred Retread

unread,
May 26, 2002, 9:37:48 AM5/26/02
to
"Carey" <cnfr...@midsouth.rr.com> wrote in
news:#gnmdlMBCHA.2228@tkmsftngp02:

Carey, you're a riot. It takes a while to understand what you're doing,
but now I see that you are actually on my side and you're illustrating the
the lameness of the opposition by exaggerating it. Wow, what took me so
long? :)

---
Fred

Fred Retread

unread,
May 26, 2002, 10:17:38 AM5/26/02
to
Computer G...@oicurmt.com wrote in
news:i5q1fuk168e6pff3m...@4ax.com:

I haven't given much thought to the greed aspect of this because I'm the
laissez-faire captitalist type, but now that you mention it Bill G. could
spend about two million dollars PER DAY based upon just 1% per year
interest on his fortune without touching the fortune itself. But he
believes he could double that fortune by clamping down on individuals using
Windows on both of their computers and seems to feel he needs to do so.
Doesn't say much for the guy, IMHO.

But I'm not scrapping principles or morality to try to stop him, I'm not
even advising people to beat him at his own game where he was sloppy and to
run multiple copies. I'm just telling people that due to MS sloppiness in
the EULA and in the XP copy protection scheme, you don't have to hassle
with activation and reactivation in the manner they want you to.

I wish the pinheads would get that. I know you do, Guy.

---
Fred

P.S. The existence of corpfiles.zip is evidence that some MS people decided
to torpedo the XP activation scheme.

Computer

unread,
May 26, 2002, 12:51:36 PM5/26/02
to
On Sun, 26 May 2002 10:24:39 -0500, "Carey" <cnfr...@midsouth.rr.com>
wrote:


You're nuts. Rather delusional it would seem as well.

Stoned

unread,
May 26, 2002, 3:11:38 PM5/26/02
to

"Carey" <cnfr...@midsouth.rr.com> wrote in message
news:#vzdxHGBCHA.1340@tkmsftngp02...

> Don't be surprised that one day, upon downloading an update from the
Windows Update site,
> that upon reboot, you cannot access your XP O/S because it was an
unauthorized, pirated
> version. And you'll have no legal leg to stand on. This has already
happened with those
> running a pirated version of Office 2000. Download and install SP1 for
Office 2000 and
> one can no longer open the program. And Microsoft has every right to do
this.
>
> Moral of the story: Honesty is the best policy!

Like Microsoft is Honest?


Actually, I know about the updates, that's why I always ask if anything has
happened to my friends when they downloaded the updates.


Fred Retread

unread,
May 26, 2002, 6:36:13 PM5/26/02