Bad Sectors
Gary
drive and the result is "Windows was unable to complete the disk scan"
The symptom is a blue screen saying that there is most likely a bad
piece of hardware.
Gary
David H. Lipman
| Gary
It means replace the hard disk drive ASAP!
--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
Multi-AV - http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp
Carmel
On Tue, 19 Jan 2010 07:01:11 -0500
David H. Lipman <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> articulated:
> From: "Gary" <nos...@ntr.net>
>
> | What does it usually mean when I run a disk scan for bad sectors on
> c | drive and the result is "Windows was unable to complete the disk
> scan"
>
> | The symptom is a blue screen saying that there is most likely a bad
> | piece of hardware.
>
>
> | Gary
>
> It means replace the hard disk drive ASAP!
>
Then again, you could just get a copy of SpinRite
<http://www.grc.com/intro.htm> and run it on the drive. Set it to its
highest level of detection and repair before running it on the drive.
It has saved me hundreds of dollars over the years. I just recently
used it on a laptop that two repair shops had declared unsalvageable.
If SpinRite declares the drive is broken, then purchase another one.
--
Carmel |::::=======
|::::=======
|===========
|===========
|
David B.
the drive to determine if it is in fact bad.
--
--
"David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
news:u8bVb8Pm...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
Gerry
Encore.
Gary
Another suggestion.Run a full surface scan with HD Tune to check for bad
sectors on the hard drive.
HD Tune only gives information and does not fix any problems.
Download and run it and see what it turns up. You want HD Tune
(freeware) version 2.55 not HD Tune Pro (not Freeware) version 3.00.
http://www.hdtune.com/
Select the Info tabs and place the cursor on the drive under Drive
letter and then double click the two page icon ( copy to Clipboard )
and copy into a further message.
Select the Health tab and then double click the two page icon ( copy to
Clipboard ) and copy into a further message. Make sure you do a full
surface scan with HD Tune.
--
Hope this helps.
Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David B. wrote:
> No it doesn't, it means you should run the hard drive mfg's
> diagnostics on the drive to determine if it is in fact bad.
>
> --
>
>
Yousuf Khan
> Then again, you could just get a copy of SpinRite
> <http://www.grc.com/intro.htm> and run it on the drive. Set it to its
> highest level of detection and repair before running it on the drive.
> It has saved me hundreds of dollars over the years. I just recently
> used it on a laptop that two repair shops had declared unsalvageable.
> If SpinRite declares the drive is broken, then purchase another one.
Spinrite is fairly well all hype now, and no bark. The techniques that
the author of Spinrite talks about were effective back in the days of
MFM & RLL hard drives. Though the author says they have been updated for
modern drives, the claims are dubious at best.
I have never gotten Spinrite to recover one red bit of data.
Yousuf Khan
Yousuf Khan
Download the free Everest utilities, from the following website:
Run the Storage -> SMART report on the appropriate hard drive, and post
the results to your reply.
Yousuf Khan
Gary
Thanks--I'll try all 3 Options
Gary
David B.
good results, I've recovered quite a bit of clients data with it.
--
--
"Yousuf Khan" <bbb...@spammenot.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4b55c952$1...@news.bnb-lp.com...
David B.
smart believes there is no problem with the drive, it's unreliable at best.
--
--
"Yousuf Khan" <bbb...@spammenot.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4b55ca94$1...@news.bnb-lp.com...
David H. Lipman
From: "Carmel" <carm...@hotmail.com>
| On Tue, 19 Jan 2010 07:01:11 -0500
| David H. Lipman <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> articulated:
>> From: "Gary" <nos...@ntr.net>
>> | What does it usually mean when I run a disk scan for bad sectors on
>> c | drive and the result is "Windows was unable to complete the disk
>> scan"
>> | The symptom is a blue screen saying that there is most likely a bad
>> | piece of hardware.
>> | Gary
>> It means replace the hard disk drive ASAP!
| Then again, you could just get a copy of SpinRite
Definitely NOT !
No Gibson Research crap.
If software is to be used it should be the manufacturer's diagnostic.
Examples:
Western Digitial - WD Diagnostics
Seagate - SeaTols
IBM/Hitachi - Drive Fitness Test
Carmel
> No Gibson Research crap.
Did you actually ever use it, or are you just suffering from verbal
diarrhea? If you did employ it, kindly post your results. (SpinRite will
create a log if instructed to. Only an amateur would use it sans a log
file.)
Cronos
> A smart report is useless, more often than not when I find a bad hard
> drive. smart believes there is no problem with the drive, it's
> unreliable at best.
>
HDtune is good at finding bad sectors if you use the slow scan mode. I
was getting BSOD on Vista once and suspected the HDD after finding no
issue with ram or anything else but even the HDD manufacturer's
diagnostics software didn't see the bad block causing it. Ran HDTune in
slow scan mode and it found it, replaced the HDD and no more BSOD.
Rod Speed
> A smart report is useless, more often than not when I find a bad hard drive. smart believes there is no problem with
> the drive, it's unreliable at best.
Wrong. You do need to be able to interpret the raw data and not
just mindlessly look at the OKs, and when you do that, you can often
see a failing hard drive from the number of reallocated sectors etc.
Arno
> A smart report is useless, more often than not when I find a bad hard drive.
> smart believes there is no problem with the drive, it's unreliable at best.
Nobody said to look at the "smart status", which is pretty useless.
Hovever the concrete values of the individual SMART attributes are
not. Seems you are not using 99% of what SMART offers.
Arno
> --
> --
> "Yousuf Khan" <bbb...@spammenot.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:4b55ca94$1...@news.bnb-lp.com...
>> Gary wrote:
>>> What does it usually mean when I run a disk scan for bad sectors on c
>>> drive and the result is "Windows was unable to complete the disk scan"
>>>
>>> The symptom is a blue screen saying that there is most likely a bad piece
>>> of hardware.
>>
>> Download the free Everest utilities, from the following website:
>>
>> http://www.lavalys.com/
>>
>> Run the Storage -> SMART report on the appropriate hard drive, and post
>> the results to your reply.
>>
>> Yousuf Khan
--
Arno Wagner, Dr. sc. techn., Dipl. Inform., CISSP -- Email: ar...@wagner.name
GnuPG: ID: 1E25338F FP: 0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
----
Cuddly UI's are the manifestation of wishful thinking. -- Dylan Evans
db
should boot up with a xp
cd and execute the repair/
recovery console.
once logged in and your
at the disk prompt run
the following command>:
chkdsk /r
then "exit" and try booting
into normal mode.
--
db���`�...�><)))�>
DatabaseBen, Retired Professional
- Systems Analyst
- Database Developer
- Accountancy
- Veteran of the Armed Forces
- @Hotmail.com
- nntp Postologist
~ "share the nirvana" - dbZen
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
"Gary" <nos...@ntr.net> wrote in message
news:#7tCe0Pm...@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
David B.
the point where even the geek squad could tell it's bad.
--
--
"Arno" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:7rmiq8...@mid.individual.net...
Yousuf Khan
> A smart report is useless, more often than not when I find a bad hard
> drive. smart believes there is no problem with the drive, it's
> unreliable at best.
Trust me, you're wrong on this. I used to feel the same way as you, when
I used to just take a cursory look at the overall SMART status and
everything would always be "just fine". But the SMART raw data fields
require human intelligence to interpret. And often you can spot a
failing drive months before it actually fails. Lots of data points get
recorded in the SMART logs that you wouldn't even be aware of during the
normal operation of the drive, as the drive will handle them internally.
Such things as stiction which is a failure of the drive to startup from
standstill after power has been turned on. If the drive doesn't start
right away, then the BIOS will just try a few more times, and usually
it'll work on a subsequent attempt. However, this reattempt will get
recorded in a running count on the SMART logs. If the running count
keeps going up, then you may have a problem. In the old days, the only
time you found out about stiction is if you started hearing a grinding
noise from the drive when you started your computer.
Yousuf Khan
Bruce Chambers
I'd have to "second" this assessment.
Having seen the same error, I can only tell the OP: "Back up your
data daily until you replace that drive."
On those machines I on which I've seen those S.M.A.R.T. warnings,
catastrophic hard drive failures invariably followed. Some hard
drives lasted for a few days after the warnings first appeared, one
lasted months, but some lasted only minutes. I suppose the one that
lasted months could be considered a false alarm, as "months" hardly
translate to "imminent," but, on the whole, I'd suggest you take the
warnings seriously.
For the background on S.M.A.R.T., start here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-Monitoring,_Analysis,_and_Reporting_Technology
--
Bruce Chambers
Help us help you:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin
Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell
The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot
Yousuf Khan
> I'd have to "second" this assessment.
>
> Having seen the same error, I can only tell the OP: "Back up your
> data daily until you replace that drive."
>
> On those machines I on which I've seen those S.M.A.R.T. warnings,
> catastrophic hard drive failures invariably followed. Some hard
> drives lasted for a few days after the warnings first appeared, one
> lasted months, but some lasted only minutes. I suppose the one that
> lasted months could be considered a false alarm, as "months" hardly
> translate to "imminent," but, on the whole, I'd suggest you take the
> warnings seriously.
Well, to tell you the truth, one of my drives has had a SMART warning on
its stiction for years now. I've had other drives with zero SMART errors
die before this drive. But they usually died due to an electronic
failure, rather than mechanical, and SMART can't do anything about that.
But I have seen other drives with lots of reallocated sectors, pending
sectors, etc. which SMART was warning about, and those actually did die
as predicted.
So I'll say that the one that's lasted for years is a false positive.
Yousuf Khan
Arno
> Don't really need it, by the time a PC hits my bench the drive is usually to
> the point where even the geek squad could tell it's bad.
Well, there is "bad" and "bad". Not all storege failures
are due to a bad drive. It can also be interface errors, bad
mounting, a marginal PSU. And the drive can have bad secotrs,
seek problems, can have died from heat, etc.
Arno
David B.
Arno
What is the point of your postings so far?
Cronos
> Wrong. You do need to be able to interpret the raw data and not
> just mindlessly look at the OKs, and when you do that, you can often
> see a failing hard drive from the number of reallocated sectors etc.
Yes well, us idiots that can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag
like to be shown the error with pretty pictures, and HDTune does just
that. But I see HDTune is no longer free, has trial version or pay for
version. Good thing I downloaded it when it was free.
Cronos
>>But the SMART raw data fields
> require human intelligence to interpret.
Intelligent people don't sit around yapping about HDDs all day. They
spend it reading Kafka, Hesse, Sarte, etc. I think you mean, requires
knowledge and not "intelligence". Anyway, no way am I going to credit
Rod Speed as an intelligent being. ;)
Gerry
You were saying -"HDTune is no longer free"?
http://www.majorgeeks.com/download4130.html
--
Hope this helps.
Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Cronos" <cro...@sphere.invalid> wrote in message
news:hj9eto$6hn$5...@news.eternal-september.org...
Arno
I found both Kafka and Hesse to be exceedingly boring and often
obvious. Quite a waste of time. Did not try Sartre.
What it takes is intelligence to recognize it is actually a
difficult problem (which is rather hard for many people, obviously)
and experience to give intelligence something to work with.
Knowledge does not really come into it besides that. otherwise
you could just read up oh how to do it.
Arno
Yousuf Khan
Well I doubt Kafka, Hesse, or Sartre could've recognized a failing hard
drive. But I will say that certain computer programs like HD Sentinel
are much better than average at recognizing a failing hard drive beyond
the idiotic SMART "OK" ratings, they're getting closer to human-level
quality. But of course, HD Sentinel is the culmination of years of human
experience, rolled into rules for a computer program.
Yousuf Khan
Arno
Indeed. And so far the only pice of software I know that is halfway
competent in this area. The rest just gives you plain data
without interpretation. Truely a sad state for data storage,
but it seems a) people do not care and b) people do not have
made really bad experiences in large enough numbers.
Cronos
> Cronos
>
> You were saying -"HDTune is no longer free"?
> http://www.majorgeeks.com/download4130.html
>
>
I just checked the author's site and it says "free trial" so is still
free but there is a pay for pro version too with advanced features.
Calling it a "trial" threw me off because that implies it is just a time
limited version but in fact it is not and is free forever. He should
change it to read 'Free Version'.
Cronos
> I found both Kafka and Hesse to be exceedingly boring and often
> obvious. Quite a waste of time. Did not try Sartre.
Hesse is considered one of the greatest existential writers ever so
disagree with your comment greatly. I have read almost all of his books.
If you find it boring then it is because you don't have the intellect
for it.
> What it takes is intelligence to recognize it is actually a
> difficult problem (which is rather hard for many people, obviously)
> and experience to give intelligence something to work with.
> Knowledge does not really come into it besides that. otherwise
> you could just read up oh how to do it.
And anyone can read up on how to decipher the SMART data. Doesn't take a
rocket scientist to do that.
David B.
--
--
"Arno" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:7rph4i...@mid.individual.net...
Arno
>> I found both Kafka and Hesse to be exceedingly boring and often
>> obvious. Quite a waste of time. Did not try Sartre.
> Hesse is considered one of the greatest existential writers ever so
> disagree with your comment greatly. I have read almost all of his books.
> If you find it boring then it is because you don't have the intellect
> for it.
Not really. My problem is that I don't like the style and
that the ideas were not new to me. So no entertainment value
and no insight value, hence boring and a waste of time for me.
This is not to imply his writing generally is, just for me it
was. Should have qualified that, sorry.
>> What it takes is intelligence to recognize it is actually a
>> difficult problem (which is rather hard for many people, obviously)
>> and experience to give intelligence something to work with.
>> Knowledge does not really come into it besides that. otherwise
>> you could just read up oh how to do it.
> And anyone can read up on how to decipher the SMART data. Doesn't take a
> rocket scientist to do that.
Actually you cannot read it up. Well, you can, but mostly in
the archives of this group, as the actual meaning differs by
drive and environmental conditions. The part that takes
intelligence is to find out whether the meaning for a similar
drive is duplicated or not and how a specific drive behaves.
Gerry
The version you are referring to is 4, whereas an earlier version still
available is Freeware.
--
Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Franc Zabkar
keyboard and composed:
>Indeed. And so far the only pice of software I know that is halfway
>competent in this area. The rest just gives you plain data
>without interpretation.
IME, some of the worst SMART tools are the ones where the author has
offered his own, often incorrect, interpretation without supplying the
actual raw data so that we can make our own judgments.
For example, the author of HD Tune doesn't appear to understand that
raw attribute values are 48-bit numbers rather than 32-bit. HD Tune
will therefore sometimes report negative decimal numbers for the "LBAs
Read and Written" attributes.
PCWizard's author only quotes the lowest 20 bits, and has no idea how
Seagate's Seek Error Rate and Raw Read Error Rate numbers are encoded.
Therefore a score of 60 for the Seek Error Rate is given a low health
assessment whereas in reality it usually reflects error-free
performance.
Some attribute values make no sense in decimal format. Their true
meaning is often only visible when expressed in hexadecimal.
- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
Arno
> On 21 Jan 2010 18:30:49 GMT, Arno <m...@privacy.net> put finger to
> keyboard and composed:
>>Indeed. And so far the only pice of software I know that is halfway
>>competent in this area. The rest just gives you plain data
>>without interpretation.
> IME, some of the worst SMART tools are the ones where the author has
> offered his own, often incorrect, interpretation without supplying the
> actual raw data so that we can make our own judgments.
True, of course. Wrong interpretations are worse than none at all.
> For example, the author of HD Tune doesn't appear to understand that
> raw attribute values are 48-bit numbers rather than 32-bit. HD Tune
> will therefore sometimes report negative decimal numbers for the "LBAs
> Read and Written" attributes.
Urgh!
> PCWizard's author only quotes the lowest 20 bits, and has no idea how
> Seagate's Seek Error Rate and Raw Read Error Rate numbers are encoded.
> Therefore a score of 60 for the Seek Error Rate is given a low health
> assessment whereas in reality it usually reflects error-free
> performance.
Well, I think I still do not undertsand the seek error rate attribute,
but at least I know that I do not understand it. This will likely
cause poeple to toss complety healthy disks. Not good.
> Some attribute values make no sense in decimal format. Their true
> meaning is often only visible when expressed in hexadecimal.
Indeed.
Cronos
> Not really. My problem is that I don't like the style and
> that the ideas were not new to me.
I take it you don't watch any movie that has the same general theme as
another movie then? That must weed out 99% of your movie watching
because there are only about 4 general themes in all movies.
> Actually you cannot read it up. Well, you can, but mostly in
> the archives of this group, as the actual meaning differs by
> drive and environmental conditions. The part that takes
> intelligence is to find out whether the meaning for a similar
> drive is duplicated or not and how a specific drive behaves.
You call Hesse boring but reading about SMART data isn't? Gee, you must
be a really exciting guy and I bet the women just love your
conversational skills.
Cronos
> For example, the author of HD Tune doesn't appear to understand that
> raw attribute values are 48-bit numbers rather than 32-bit. HD Tune
> will therefore sometimes report negative decimal numbers for the "LBAs
> Read and Written" attributes.
I don't care about that. If HDTune shows a red block on a pretty yellow
background then I know there is an issue with the HDD.
Cronos
> Cronos
>
> The version you are referring to is 4, whereas an earlier version still
> available is Freeware.
>
>
Franc Zabkar
finger to keyboard and composed:
>Franc Zabkar wrote:
What you know is that HD Tune's author thinks there is an issue.
Tell me why HD Tune's author chooses to highlight the following Spin
Retry Count in yellow:
http://eric514.mailpeers.net/hd-tune-ST3500630A.jpg
Arno
A bit of an extremely simplicitic view of a complex issue...
Cronos
> What you know is that HD Tune's author thinks there is an issue.
No, what I know is that from my actual experience it accurately detected
a bad block that the manufacturer's diagnostic software failed to
detect. You on the other hand have no first hand experience to your
claims and are just making it up as you go along.
Cronos
> A bit of an extremely simplicitic view of a complex issue...
>
> Arno
>
I'm a subscriber to KISS. You should try it sometime instead of over
analyzing the data.
Arno
KISS aplies to synthesis, not to analysis. I think you may
have simplified analysis so much that you have no idea
what you miss.
Cronos
> KISS aplies to synthesis, not to analysis. I think you may
> have simplified analysis so much that you have no idea
> what you miss.
>
> Arno
Red = Bad
That's all I need, or want, to analyze. :)
Arno
> Red = Bad
Well, do it any way you like. It is not my job to
prevent you from shooting yourself in the foot or
using inadequate procedures.
A competent approach to the problem looks differently though.
Franc Zabkar
finger to keyboard and composed:
>Red = Bad
>
>That's all I need, or want, to analyze. :)
If a drive has 2000 reallocated sectors, how many of those will be
highlighted in red?
Cronos
> Well, do it any way you like. It is not my job to
> prevent you from shooting yourself in the foot or
> using inadequate procedures.
>
> A competent approach to the problem looks differently though.
>
> Arno
>
Um no, if I am getting BSOD when booting up Windows and I suspect the
HDD after checking other possibilities else out and HDTune shows a bad
block in red and then swap out the HDD and no more BSOD then that is a
job well done and in a fraction of the time it would take you. You can
claim I am incompetent all you like but that doesn't make it so.
Franc Zabkar
keyboard and composed:
>Well, I think I still do not undertsand the seek error rate attribute,
Here are two examples for two Seagate ST3500630AS drives:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED
WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000f 035 024 030 Pre-fail
Always In_the_past 54443054162961
7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000f 059 048 030 Pre-fail
Always - 1507770244954
Convert the raw decimal attribute values to hex:
54443054162961 = 0x318402e76411 (drive A)
1507770244954 = 0x015f0e1c1f5a (drive B)
AIUI, the number of seek errors is stored in the uppermost 16 bits of
the 48-bit attribute value, and the total number of seeks is stored in
the lower 32 bits.
So for drive A,
# seek errors = 0x3184
# total seeks = 0x02e76411
The normalised attribute value is logarithmic and appears to be
calculated as follows:
Normalised value = -10 log (seek errors/total seeks)
If the number of seek errors is 0, then use a value of 1.
For drive A, this works out as ...
-10 x log(0x3184 / 0x02e76411) = 35.8471493
For drive B it is ...
-10 x log(0x015f / 0x0e1c1f5a) = 58.2893528
Not exactly right, but very close ...
The worst case value of 24 corresponds to an error rate of ...
-10 ^ 2.4 = 1/251
... ie one error in every 250 seeks.
Franc Zabkar
<fza...@iinternode.on.net> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>The worst case value of 24 corresponds to an error rate of ...
>
> -10 ^ 2.4 = 1/251
Sorry, that should be ...
10 ^ (-2.4)
Arno
> 10 ^ (-2.4)
Thanks, noted and archived in my doc collocetion.