Re: How to stop Thunderbird from wanting to upgrade

[Mayayana]

"Unlisted" <unli...@nomail.com> wrote

| Im running Thunderbird 38.5 on XP. Thats the last version for XP. Every
| so often it tries to upgrade without me knowing it till it gives me an
| error message saying the upgrade failed. How can I prevent it from
| upgrading entirely? I cant find that setting.
|

Tools -> Options -> Advanced -> General tab -> config editor

(I like to also delete crashreporter, updater, and maintenance
service files in the program folder.) Search for "update". Set
any values you find. Erase update URLs. Set all update choices
to False. They're really obnoxious about it. There doesn't
seem to be any single setting that the programs will obey.
I also like to erase all URLs in about:config.

(In v. 38 you can also set to never check for updates on
the update tab, but I wouldn't trust that setting alone.
In later versions of Mozilla products the update option is
hidden altogether, unavailable in the settings window... These
people are more pushy and tedious than a car salesman.)

[Ralph Fox]

On Fri, 25 Dec 2020 19:45:46 -0600, Unlisted wrote:

> Im running Thunderbird 38.5 on XP. Thats the last version for XP. Every
> so often it tries to upgrade without me knowing it till it gives me an
> error message saying the upgrade failed. How can I prevent it from
> upgrading entirely? I cant find that setting.

Two things:

1. Go to: Control Panel >> Add or Remove Programs
If the "Mozilla Maintenance Service" is in the list of
'Currently installed programs', then uninstall it.
The "Mozilla Maintenance Service" installs updates in the
background for Mozilla Thunderbird and/or Mozilla Firefox.

2. The last version of Thunderbird for XP SP3 is version 52.9.1.
In Thunderbird 52.9.1, the setting to turn off updates is at
"Tools >> Options >> Advanced >> Update".
Screen-shot: <https://i.imgur.com/tGkN8PV.png>


--
Kind regards
Ralph

[Paul]

The only observation I would add to this, is the controls
are not absolute. There is pipelining involved.

If an update installer file is sitting in a folder somewhere,
even with updating turned off, it'll try and load that. And
perhaps, fail, over and over again. The OP may not be happy
to find, that with "all controls set to OFF", the behavior
persists.

A guess would be, you'd need to find that file and rename it
so it can't be used. At a minimum.

*******

On a newer version of Windows, this is where I see the
Mozilla ARchive (MAR) file staged. Mozilla puts both
their Firefox and Thunderbird updates in the same tree.
There are additional files in the particular folder, regarding
what kind it is (like an XML file that will name the culprit).

C:\ProgramData\Mozilla\updates\D78BF5DD33499EC2\updates\0\update.mar

It's possible on WinXP, that a search for "update.mar" will
locate the folder of interest. If the update is successful,
update.mar is deleted, which is why you can't hunt for carcasses
on a fully working machine.

If the update.mar were renamed to update.mar.orig,
maybe that would be enough to stop the final vestiges
of update-attempts. At a guess.

The MAR files are staged on a server like this. This
is the kind of thing it is downloading. These files are archives,
with a non-standard manifest (text strings) after the
end of the archive. As seen in a hex editor.

http://archive.mozilla.org/pub/thunderbird/releases/38.0.1/update/win32/en-US/thunderbird-38.0.1.complete.mar

*******

Another way to kill it, would be to locate the EXE files that
control the updating process. I don't think there is a reason
at the moment, to investigate further in that direction.

Paul

[Mayayana]

"Paul" <nos...@needed.invalid> wrote

| If an update installer file is sitting in a folder somewhere,
| even with updating turned off, it'll try and load that. And
| perhaps, fail, over and over again. The OP may not be happy
| to find, that with "all controls set to OFF", the behavior
| persists.
|
| A guess would be, you'd need to find that file and rename it
| so it can't be used. At a minimum.
|

I just delete them, using a very scientific, systematic
methodology. I have a temper tantrum, delete the
updater EXEs, and go through about:config setting
every update value I can find, while also erasing
all URLs, while muttering ominously under my breath,
in order to make sure the program's teeth are chattering
and that it wouldn't dare even think about updating again.

If I then get one of those popups that says there's
a new version available, I know I have more weeding
to do. (What the heck is the matter with these people?!)

Yesterday, actually, Waterfox on Win7 popped up
a reminder. I did a quick check of prefs and realized
I hadn't cleaned that particular browser. I only use
it for occasional movie streaming. A couple of
minutes later, during the start of Midbight Sky,
it popped up on the TV screen to say that it had
been unable to update, so I should do it myself.
Thanks so much. Will do. :)

That reminds me of XP when I disable system file
protection and also delete the hidden backups. Then
when I delete Media Player it pops up with a desperate
plea: "Please insert some kind of disk so we can fix
things." NO. "Do you want to keep this version of
your files, then?" YES. Bye... And the ghost of SFP
limps off to the dark depths of System32, muttering
nonsense to itself.

I'll have to look for those update files. I don't find
any such thing on XP, but I'm running v 52. Mozilla
have gone 30 more versions toward malware since
that one.

[pyotr filipivich]

Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid> on Sat, 26 Dec 2020 19:05:44 +1300 typed
in microsoft.public.windowsxp.general the following:

>
>Two things:
>
> 1. Go to: Control Panel >> Add or Remove Programs
> If the "Mozilla Maintenance Service" is in the list of
> 'Currently installed programs', then uninstall it.
> The "Mozilla Maintenance Service" installs updates in the
> background for Mozilla Thunderbird and/or Mozilla Firefox.

Thanks for that tip.

> 2. The last version of Thunderbird for XP SP3 is version 52.9.1.
> In Thunderbird 52.9.1, the setting to turn off updates is at
> "Tools >> Options >> Advanced >> Update".
> Screen-shot: <https://i.imgur.com/tGkN8PV.png>

Will check. I stopped using T-bird in the Cretaceous age.>
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?

[pyotr filipivich]

"Mayayana" <maya...@invalid.nospam> on Fri, 25 Dec 2020 23:10:23
-0500 typed in microsoft.public.windowsxp.general the following:

I had to download the installer, disconnect the modem, then
install. Otherwise, it downloads the latest version and installs it,
an you never do get to set "update".
Ever since I did that (and set it to "never update") it has worked
"properly".

[Mayayana]

"pyotr filipivich" <ph...@mindspring.com>

| I had to download the installer, disconnect the modem, then
| install. Otherwise, it downloads the latest version and installs it,
| an you never do get to set "update".

Interesting. I've never seen that. I have seen
it try to load their homepage mess. But these days
I put most mozilla URLs in my HOSTS file, it's
got so bad. Mozilla.com is blocked. I go back and
forth with mozilla.org. Sometimes I need to access
their docs.

[Mayayana]

"pyotr filipivich" <ph...@mindspring.com> wrote

| > The "Mozilla Maintenance Service" installs updates in the
| > background for Mozilla Thunderbird and/or Mozilla Firefox.
|
| Thanks for that tip.
|

Did you know you don't have to allow that in the
first place? If you pick a custom install you
can uncheck it. Though the maintenance service
installer file still gets installed, which I delete.

[pyotr filipivich]

"Mayayana" <maya...@invalid.nospam> on Sat, 26 Dec 2020 13:36:55
-0500 typed in microsoft.public.windowsxp.general the following:

>"pyotr filipivich" <ph...@mindspring.com> wrote
>
>| > The "Mozilla Maintenance Service" installs updates in the
>| > background for Mozilla Thunderbird and/or Mozilla Firefox.
>|
>| Thanks for that tip.
>|
>
> Did you know you don't have to allow that in the
>first place? If you pick a custom install you

I got lazy.

>can uncheck it. Though the maintenance service
>installer file still gets installed, which I delete.
>

[R.Wieser]

Mayayana,

> That reminds me of XP when I disable system file
> protection

May I ask how you do that ? And is it reversable ?

I've got some code to put SFP to sleep for a bit (so you can replace
protected files), but being able to just shut it off doesn't sound half bad.
The list of (potentially) protected files is just silly - including
gamestuff and the like.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

[Mayayana]

"R.Wieser" <add...@not.available> wrote

| > That reminds me of XP when I disable system file
| > protection
|
| May I ask how you do that ? And is it reversable ?
|

remove:
rundll32.exe setupapi.dll,InstallHinfSection DefaultUninstall 132
C:\WINDOWS\INF\PCHealth.inf

replace:
rundll32.exe setupapi.dll,InstallHinfSection DefaultInstall 132
C:\WINDOWS\INF\PCHealth.inf


Watch out for wordwrap. That's all one line to be run in
the Run window. It removes "PCHealth", which means
Windows Help doesn't work. Personally I don't think I've ever
got any answer from Windows help, so I don't care. It doesn't
affect HTML help or HLP files. It's just the built-in help for
Windows itself that stops working. Maybe you could copy out
that file(s) first, if you want to. I've never checked. As we say
in the US, "Ask me if I care". :)

You might need to show hidden files in order for this to
work. I'm not sure. I've never not hid them. But the INF
folder is "hidden". I don't recall whether I've ever tried the
re-install, so I can't guarantee it works. But I guess it
should so long as the backup files are present. On the
other hand, one reason to remove SFP is so that all that
bloat can be removed. I keep copies of XP SP3 CABs.
I don't need them on C drive. Removing SFP allows me to
delete SP backup files, protected system file duplicates, and
"DriverStore" backups. (Otherwise XP will still silently replace
deleted files if it has copies.)

[R.Wieser]

Mayayana,

> | May I ask how you do that ? And is it reversable ?
>
> remove:

Thanks.

> Personally I don't think I've ever got any answer from
> Windows help

I can't remember ever having had any use for it either.

> I've never not hid them

Same here.

> On the other hand, one reason to remove SFP is
> so that all that bloat can be removed.

I think that having a bit "(sh)it got broken, let me help you" isn't all
that bad, but not being able to overrule it is. Also, the list of protected
files is a bit silly, including games and stuff I've never bothered to
install. Ill probably see if I can trim that list.

And I do not want to over-ask, but do you have a list (folders, files) of
the bloat you've removed (possibly with what won't work as a result) ?

> delete SP backup files

"SP backup files" ? Whats that ?

> Removing SFP allows me to delete ... protected system
> file duplicates

I think I once noticed that I could start with deleting file in the
"dllcache" folder, not closing the warning, than delete the actual file and
than finish the warning, allowing the "dllcache" file to be deleted. With
both gone ...

Browsing thru the "dllcache" folder I just saw the "wupmgr.exe" and other
"wu*" files come by. Somehow I don't think I will ever need those anymore.
:-)

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

[Mayayana]

"R.Wieser" <add...@not.available> wrote

| And I do not want to over-ask, but do you have a list (folders, files) of
| the bloat you've removed (possibly with what won't work as a result) ?
|

That's a tough one. It's been awhile. I think there's
driver store, driver cache, dll cache... something like
that. Maybe system volume information in C drive root?
There was one that had a total backup and others
that have a partial backup. I think Windows Media
Player was actually in Driver Store. Nutty. The only
thing I don't fiddle with is winsxs. It breaks if you
take it out in Win7, and the XP version is small.

But with the rest, they're just backup files. I keep
CABs on another drive for when I need them.

You might just have to look around in C, Windows
and System32.

| > delete SP backup files
|
| "SP backup files" ? Whats that ?
|

Beats me. Sometimes I find them backed up in System32.

|
| Browsing thru the "dllcache" folder I just saw the "wupmgr.exe" and other
| "wu*" files come by. Somehow I don't think I will ever need those
anymore.
| :-)
|

No. Windows Update. But also, it should
be safe to delete anything that has a copy
in Windows or System32. Those would
just be backups. In my experience, a clean
XP install is only about 1 GB. It's only about
1.4 GB with most of my software installed.

[Juancho]

Now, that is interesting to know.

If you choose custom install and don't install the "Mozilla Maintenance
Service", will updates stop from happening?

--
EOT.

[Ralph Fox]

On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 19:57:36 +0100, Juancho wrote:

> If you choose custom install and don't install the "Mozilla Maintenance
> Service", will updates stop from happening?

No. You also need to adjust the setting shown in my screen-shot.

Screen-shot: <https://i.imgur.com/tGkN8PV.png>

The purpose of the "Mozilla Maintenance Service" is only to avoid the
UAC prompt on Vista and later when an update is being installed.

"What is the Mozilla Maintenance Service?"
<https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/what-mozilla-maintenance-service>


--
Kind regards
Ralph

[MikeS]

The "never check" option selected in your screenshot is no longer
available in recent TB versions. That's the problem. You now need a
registry edit (or policy).

[Ralph Fox]

On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 17:41:56 +0000, MikeS wrote:

> The "never check" option selected in your screenshot is no longer
> available in recent TB versions.

And those recent TB versions do not run non XP.
Read the OP. This thread is specifically about Thunderbird on XP.
This is also the XP newsgroup.

The "never check" option is still available in the most recent *XP-compatible*
version of TB.


> That's the problem.

Not in this case. That is not a problem for people running Thunderbird on XP.
As in this thread.


--
Kind regards
Ralph

[Mayayana]

"Ralph Fox" <-rf-nz-@-.invalid> wrote

| Not in this case. That is not a problem for people running Thunderbird on
XP.
| As in this thread.
|

And why update, anyway? Recent versions of Firefox not
only remove update options but also hid cookie options.
People might want to update for fixes, but TBird would
probably work just as well in v 5 as v. 52.

I've got recent FF and Waterfox on one machine. I disabled
all update settings I could find in prefs. I removed the updater
EXE. They both still come up and tell me to update! Sometimes
I say, "OK. Go ahead and try." Of course, nothing happens.
But it will still ask me later. Or it might, out of the blue, show
me a window about a failed update. What a mess.