How to stop usn journaling?

[Bill in Co]

Does anybody know how to stop usn journaling (on Windows XP)?

I'm not just talking about deleting an existing journal, but instead
stopping that "service" altogether. So far I haven't found anything in my
Google searches. The only thing I have found is how to delete a usn journal
(using the command fsutil usn deletejournal /d C:) which isn't the same
thing, obviously

[Paul]

It's a pretty strange design.

The evidence suggests:

1) There isn't a separate service generating the journal. It is like
it is generated by NTFS.sys itself. And this makes sense, when you
consider that it needs to log every burp and fart involving files
or directories. While they could have made it a separate service,
made it a filter driver and put it in the file stack, that just
creates a programmatic mess for people like AV program designers,
when they need to hook the file system and watch their own burps
and farts. Better to make it invisible. Only problem is, not
putting enough controls in the Registry for it.

2) FSutil can delete the journal. Any journal-dependent program
(such as FRS, or a file search program) can request a new one
be created. You can set a space allocation for the thing, but
the documentation suggests the lower limit is not zero. So it
might ignore attempts, or error out, on a setting of zero. I'm
not going to try that right now.

You could go around, uninstalling or disabling all file search
code. Or, every time you find the journal running again,
consider what program you just used, and delete that. But
that's surely a route to madness.

You can switch over to ExFAT for C:. If you have a second
OS installed on the machine, it should be relatively easy to
Robocopy the files off, reformat, and move them back. As long
as "fixboot" knows how to put back a partition boot sector
onto an ExFAT partition, that is.

Wikipedia says this update adds ExFAT to WinXP. But that's
not going to modify the copy of Fixboot on my WinXP installer CD.
So I don't know what happens there. I feel you'll need Fixboot,
as once you format C: with ExFAT, the file system header is blown
away, and with it, the partition boot sector.

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=19364

I regularly move the files off C:, reformat C: to FAT32,
then move the files back, all using Robocopy. And a Fixboot
is necessary as the final step, if I expect WinXP to boot
again. The OS in question, is the one I'm typing on right
now. I feel I could attempt to do that with ExFAT, except
for the details of Fixboot. Perhaps I'd need Vista/Win7/Win8
tools to do it ?

Paul

[Bill in Co]

I was almost tempted to try and clean install everything, but since this is
only happening on a laptop I just got on eBay (that came with WindowsXP Pro
preinstalled on it, and with no discs), it may be more trouble than it's
worth. It's just a slight nuisance. I just thought there was some simple
way to disable this - guess not. :-(

OK, I got another question for ya, Paul: Just out of curiosity, what would
happen if I inserted my own WindowsXP Home CD into the computer and tried to
"overinstall" everything - hopefully being presented with an option to clean
install it (and wipe the HD in the process)? I'm guessing it wouldn't work
(saying there is already another copy of XP on it, and a different one, at
that). I just can't remember anymore, and I'm afraid to try it. :-)

[Paul]

Well, there is "Clean install", which removes everything.

There is "Repair Install", which should keep settings and
data, create a Windows.old, and repair the OS files.

And there is also the possibility of installing two
copies of the same OS. When I tried that with Win2K
(similar to WinXP), the installer CD created an extended
partition, put a logical partition in it, and put the
new OS in there. (Even though it could have used a
primary partition if it had wanted.) And then, relied
on the existing primary partition (boot.ini, boot flag)
for boot services. At the time, this was not at all what
I had in mind. It kinda happened by accident, but I let
it finish to see what had happened.

For my Windows 7 laptop, I just finished using a Home Premium
ISO9660 download off the Internet, to reinstall in place of the
OEM Home Premium. And I had to activate by phoning an automated
system at Microsoft, reading in a 54 digit number, and then
the automated system read back a 54 digit response to type into
the computer. But it did activate and works OK. I used the
license key off the COA sticker on the laptop. Apparently
on a Windows 8 laptop, there is no longer a sticker or
the same licensing scheme. The license is stored in the BIOS
on Windows 8. Yes another recipe to deal with.

On the newer OSes, there is an "ei.cfg" file on the
installer DVD, that declares what the DVD is for.
There is a procedure to remove the ei.cfg and make
a "multi-OS" or "generic" installer DVD from it.

On WinXP, there is also a declaration of sorts on the CD.
See the "setup.ini" section at the bottom here. I haven't
tested this, as I don't have any gear with an OEM XP OS that
needs reinstallation.

http://www.infocellar.com/winxp/oem-recover-retail.htm

Paul

[philo]

You must be thinking of Win7

XP does not create a Windows.old you perform a repair install,
you can install in a new folder or you can format the drive and perform
a fresh install.


OTOH: There is no way I've ever run XP on anything other than NTFS...
it's an accident waiting to happen.

[Paul]

There's an article here on Repair Install, but it doesn't
address removing versions of Internet Explorer higher than
the one on the original CD first.

http://michaelstevenstech.com/XPrepairinstall.htm

I've only done one Repair Install on WinXP, and don't
remember the details. You've done more of these than
I have. I needed to do that for WinXP, after some
kind of unfortunate accident with msconfig (details
forgotten now). What was really neat, is the OS
wouldn't activate after the repair, because of some
issue with Internet Explorer. I had to temporarily install
a more recent IE version, to get the activation stuff
to work.

And FAT32 isn't a big deal. For such a non-robust file
system, I'm surprised how trouble-free it is. I could have
sworn, years ago, in another place, I had more troubles. Here
at home, it's been well behaved. I just have to remember
not to start any >4GB downloads while using it for C: :-)
I usually switch to another OS when I need to do that.

Paul

[Bill in Co]

I do remember reading that if you had installed IE8, and attempted to do a
repair, there could be problems, so I guess I still remember some things.
:-)

As for WinXP running on a FAT32 formatted HD, I sometimes think it would be
nice to try it someday, since it could allow one to boot into real DOS mode,
and at least have access to the HD then (without resorting to NTFS4DOS or
the like). But I never got around to it.

But if I get bored, I just may try it. :-) Too bad I can't "simply"
convert my existing NTFS system volume to FAT32 without screwing up the
system in the process.. :-)

[Paul]

Bill in Co wrote:

>
> Too bad I can't "simply"
> convert my existing NTFS system volume to FAT32 without screwing up the
> system in the process.. :-)

I bet it could be done. Using another OS, you'd Robocopy the files
off the NTFS partition, reformat to FAT32, Robocopy the files back,
boot with the WinXP installer CD (recovery console) and use "fixboot".
All else should remain the same. If the boot flag attempts to get lost,
you can put that back as well, with either ptedit32 or with diskpart.

I even put back the original volumeID with Sysinternals "volumeid"
program, for no particular reason. It's supposed to count towards
activation, but I've never seen any evidence that it is all that
important.

*******

And no, the "convert" program doesn't go backwards. As far
as I know, it only takes FAT32 to NTFS, and it does it
with 1KB block size or something. In other words, for
a conversion, it does a poor job. NTFS is supposed to be
4KB default size. 64KB if you're setting up a volume with
only large files, and don't care about compatibility for
things like compression or encryption. I think I had one
partition set up here with 64KB size, and it worked OK.

"Convert..."

http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/convert.mspx?mfr=true

Paul

[Bill in Co]

Paul wrote:
> Bill in Co wrote:
>
>>
>> Too bad I can't "simply"
>> convert my existing NTFS system volume to FAT32 without screwing up the
>> system in the process.. :-)
>
>
> I bet it could be done. Using another OS, you'd Robocopy the files
> off the NTFS partition, reformat to FAT32, Robocopy the files back,
> boot with the WinXP installer CD (recovery console) and use "fixboot".
> All else should remain the same. If the boot flag attempts to get lost,
> you can put that back as well, with either ptedit32 or with diskpart.

That could be an interesting (but a bit challenging) experiment, assuming
all goes well (that's a big assumption, I think :-).

I guess I could use my genuine MS WinXP Upgrade CD for that fixboot Recovery
Console (even on my recently purchased old Dell laptop (which came
preinstalled with XP on it, but no CDs), but I'm not sure. More below..

> I even put back the original volumeID with Sysinternals "volumeid"
> program, for no particular reason. It's supposed to count towards
> activation, but I've never seen any evidence that it is all that
> important.
>
> *******
>
> And no, the "convert" program doesn't go backwards. As far
> as I know, it only takes FAT32 to NTFS, and it does it
> with 1KB block size or something. In other words, for
> a conversion, it does a poor job. NTFS is supposed to be
> 4KB default size. 64KB if you're setting up a volume with
> only large files, and don't care about compatibility for
> things like compression or encryption. I think I had one
> partition set up here with 64KB size, and it worked OK.
>
> "Convert..."
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/convert.mspx?mfr=true
>
> Paul

The freebie partition program "PC Wizard" (MiniTool PC Wizard) allegedly can
convert NTFS to FAT as one of its features, as I recall. (I was looking at
some freebie partition managers, and this one came up with pretty good
reviews (although the Easeus Partition Manager doesn't seem bad, either).

[Paul]

The only attraction of "convert.exe", is it is supposed to
do the conversion while the OS remains running.

I think my partition manager here would do it, but it
would need to boot into its own little world to convert C:.
Then boot back to C: later. Kinda cheating...

Paul

[philo]

On 10/13/2013 09:33 PM, Paul wrote:

>
> There's an article here on Repair Install, but it doesn't
> address removing versions of Internet Explorer higher than
> the one on the original CD first.
>
> http://michaelstevenstech.com/XPrepairinstall.htm

My XP cd is slipstreamed with most of the updates plus IE8
however you made a good point. If using a non-slipstreamed CD
it is probably best to first uninstall IE8 (or IE7)

>
> I've only done one Repair Install on WinXP, and don't
> remember the details. You've done more of these than
> I have. I needed to do that for WinXP, after some
> kind of unfortunate accident with msconfig (details
> forgotten now). What was really neat, is the OS
> wouldn't activate after the repair, because of some
> issue with Internet Explorer. I had to temporarily install
> a more recent IE version, to get the activation stuff
> to work.
>
> And FAT32 isn't a big deal. For such a non-robust file
> system, I'm surprised how trouble-free it is. I could have
> sworn, years ago, in another place, I had more troubles. Here
> at home, it's been well behaved. I just have to remember
> not to start any >4GB downloads while using it for C: :-)
> I usually switch to another OS when I need to do that.
>
> Paul

Although back when I was using Win98 I never had problems with Fat32
I really recommend NTFS. Not only is it more robust, it will have better
cluster size on a partition over 32gigs plus fat32 cannot handle files
over 4 gigs.

I have never experimented with vFat but there is no such option from
within the context of the XP installer