Yikes ! Cannot Access a webpage.

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RecentlyOrLately

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Jun 14, 2022, 1:04:53 PMJun 14
to
Win XP pro on a Lenovo T500 laptop.

Trying to find the latest Malwarebytes that will work with Win XP.

I have an old version that found and supposedly removed some malware.
Rebooted.

Every time I attempt to go to the Malwarebytes webpages I get a browser
error of server not found. Firefox or My Pal both fail.

Suggestions please.


RecentlyOrLately

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Jun 14, 2022, 1:06:35 PMJun 14
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Currently Malwarebytes
1.70.0.1100

e.g. cannot access
http://www.malwarebytes.org/

VanguardLH

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Jun 14, 2022, 1:21:51 PMJun 14
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View the hosts file (no extension). Malware can leave entries there
that anti-virus cleanup doesn't remove (it won't know if the malware
added the entries, or you did). Malware often doesn't want you visiting
anti-virus/malware sites to keep you from completely removing them.

C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc\hosts

In the web browser, what URL is in its address bar when you attempt to
visit the malwarebytes.com web site?

VanguardLH

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Jun 14, 2022, 1:24:45 PMJun 14
to
RecentlyOrLately wrote:

> Currently Malwarebytes
> 1.70.0.1100
>
> e.g. cannot access
> http://www.malwarebytes.org/

That URL gets redirected by them to their secure web site at:

https://www.malwarebytes.com/

Try the HTTPS URL instead. They own both domains, but operate their
secure web site at the .com domain.

RecentlyOrLately

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Jun 14, 2022, 1:36:30 PMJun 14
to
Sometimes i get a google prefix
https://www.google.com/url?esrc=s&q=&rct=j&sa=U&url=https://www.superantispyware.com/&ved=2ahUKEwjWo76fva34AhWJKkQIHSpqD70QFnoECAMQAg&usg=AOvVaw1BZtv4hfDIQOQQiwtk1eOW


RecentlyOrLately wrote:
>
> https://www.malwarebytes.com/
> is left in the address bar.
>
> Tried Seamonkey, same results.
>
> Went to MajorGeeks and found link to Malwarebytes, clicked it and it
> also failed.
>
> Put C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc\hosts in Explorer and it opened a
> dialog and opened Notepad.
> shows
>   127.0.0.1 www.Brenz.pl
>   127.0.0.1       localhost
>
> What is Brenz.pl ?
> # it out and testing.

R.Wieser

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Jun 14, 2022, 3:34:14 PMJun 14
to
RecentlyOrLately,

> e.g. cannot access
> http://www.malwarebytes.org/

Try entering http://108.156.60.20 or https://108.156.60.20 (I used "ping
www.malwarebytes.com" to get that IP) and see what you get. If you do get
something it might just be the DNS service thats messed up.

I don't know how to fix it, but at least than you've got something to google
for.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


Paul

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Jun 14, 2022, 4:11:05 PMJun 14
to
But you can triangulate better than that.

The pisser, is I tested WinXP SP3 in a VM and everything
I tried, works. This is not encouraging, because it means
if I pour a whole bunch of stuff into a post, chances are
it won't work on the OPs setup.

There was the LetsEncrypt certificate problem a few months
back for Windows XP users. And I ran into a few individuals
who were pretty close to completely broken. The only
thing I could do, is use http://curl.se to bootstrap
them. Using a copy of curl, the users could then fetch
a replacement certificate to repair the LetsEncrypt expiry
on a certificate that LE was using as its next level of trust.

Now, the thing is, curl.se has since that occasion, switched
from http to https, making the fucking of the Internet complete.
Now I have no way of fetching a tool, without a wall of certificates
to cut me off. https uses certificates, http does not.

There is curl.exe and there is wget.exe, as alternates
to broken web browsers. If they were to have their own
certificate store onboard (as Firefox does), then they might
complete the fetch of something the OP really wants. But since
there are no updates for Firefox for WinXP users, the internal
certificate store no longer a "feature". The contents are
now too old in the 52ESR package.

Wget discontinued WinXP support, several minor releases ago.
So I didn't want to get into a hairball trying to figure out
whether this was true or not. The curl site didn't have a
drop-dead notice on WinXP.

wget.exe https://www.some.com/some.file # Using wget

curl.exe https://www.some.com/some.file --output some.file # Using curl

The MBAM installer (standalone, not net installer), which
does not contain definitions, is here. Once this is installed
and running, it'll download definitions (assuming it can make
connections and DNS isn't busted).

https://data-cdn.mbamupdates.com/web/mb3-setup-legacy/mb3-setup-legacywos-3.5.1.2522-1.0.365-1.0.5292.exe

This is a source of curl (if the OP can reach it). Because
they switched to https, this might not work either.

https://curl.se/windows/dl-7.83.1_3/curl-7.83.1_3-win32-mingw.zip

There are some wget.exe files here. You would unpack these,
open a command prompt. cd to the directory with wget.exe, then
issue a command in Command Prompt for the desired file transfer.
These should be scanned by the user, using www.virustotal.com .

https://eternallybored.org/misc/wget/

https://eternallybored.org/misc/wget/releases/old/wget-1.19.4-win32.zip # last Winxp

https://eternallybored.org/misc/wget/releases/wget-1.21.3-win32.zip # no worky on winxp

It could be DNS, it could be the LetsEncrypt bug. But because
I can't reproduce any of these here, it makes me wonder what
magic is in the Virtual Machine I'm using, that prevents breakage.
I was still able to visit malwarebytes.org (the main page does not
exactly help WinXP users all that much).

Malwarebytes is protected by CloudFlare, which means I can't
do any checking with the ssllabs thing.

The Internet is fast becoming a locked-up hot mess, with little
possibility of folks being able to bootstrap themselves out
of a certificate hole. Virtually every site now, is an Amazon AWS
instance, is protected by CloudFlare, or has items of that sort
to confuse matters. And these barriers to entry, are not intended
to help WinXP users particularly.

Paul

Paul

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Jun 14, 2022, 4:17:40 PMJun 14
to
On 6/14/2022 3:55 PM, lu...@invalid.com wrote:
> Forget all that "Malware" and AV crap. Install a simple sandbox like
> Time Freeze from ToolWiz - a freebie with no nags, and have everything
> that was downloaded by you or by some site dumped from your C: when
> you reboot.
>
> I've been using it for a few years without any of that "Security" crap
> with no problems. Besides, Malwarebytes is crap.
>

If this is the LetsEncrypt problem, he's pretty close to being
cut off from the Internet. A sandbox won't help him now.
Thoughts and prayers might.

Paul

VanguardLH

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Jun 14, 2022, 6:19:58 PMJun 14
to
RecentlyOrLately wrote:

> https://www.malwarebytes.com/
> is left in the address bar.
>
> Tried Seamonkey, same results.
>
> Went to MajorGeeks and found link to Malwarebytes, clicked it and it
> also failed.
>
> Put C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc\hosts in Explorer and it opened a
> dialog and opened Notepad.
> shows
> 127.0.0.1 www.Brenz.pl
> 127.0.0.1 localhost
>
> What is Brenz.pl ?
> # it out and testing.

You said you got infected. My guess without knowing what malware you
think you eradicated is the malware installed a local proxy through
which all your web traffic flowed, so they could misdirect you to other
sites than you intended, or block access to security sites that could
kill their infection. 127.0.0.1 is localhost, and often used by local
proxies (which can get confusing if there are multiple proxies all
listening on the same port). If the malware was using a proxy, and if
you really did eradicate it, then the hosts entry is neutered. However,
if their proxy is still around, you could be connecting to it which
redirects you to the brenz.pl site which could be doing anything, like
tracking where you intended to visit, redirect you to fake sites, etc.

Besides just commenting out the entry, I would delete it unless I could
find some legit software on my computer that needed localhost connects
to redirect to some external site (highly unlikely).

Because the malware cleanup didn't get rid of the non-standard entries
in the hosts file, could be the cleanup also didn't get rid of a change
in the network configuration. I don't have a WinXP host to give the
navigation to the settings, but somewhere you can get to Internet
Options. Might be in Control Panel. Might also be able to call it up
by running C:\Windows\System32\inetcpl.cpl. Go to the Connections tab.
Presuming you are using an always-on broadband connection (cable or DSL,
not dialup), the "Dial-up and Virtual Private Network Settings" section
should be blank. I'm also presuming you are not using a VPN. Click the
"LAN settings" button. All those options should be deselected. Malware
may try to use them to intercept your LAN traffic, especially if you see
a proxy server specified. Even if the cleanup got rid of the malware,
the LAN settings could be pointing to a local proxy that no longer
exists, so you cannot connect to a proxy that is no longer running.

I've yet to see any anti-virus/malware tool perform 100% cleanup,
because they won't know which settings were made by you or the malware.

Paul

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Jun 15, 2022, 2:00:22 AMJun 15
to
On 6/14/2022 1:34 PM, RecentlyOrLately wrote:
>
> https://www.malwarebytes.com/
> is left in the address bar.
>
> Tried Seamonkey, same results.
>
> Went to MajorGeeks and found link to Malwarebytes, clicked it and it also failed.
>
> Put C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc\hosts in Explorer and it opened a dialog and opened Notepad.
> shows
>   127.0.0.1 www.Brenz.pl
>   127.0.0.1       localhost
>
> What is Brenz.pl ?
> # it out and testing.
>

You can scan URLs on virustotal.com . That particular domain
doesn't have a good reputation.

https://www.virustotal.com/gui/url/31ce243b2ef5dd3790be577eeb9d68df7afdda26be2131de243cb06b3d742efc/detection

That site has a suspicious rating, but none of the "evidence"
amounted to a hill of beans. It doesn't say exactly what item
or item type made it suspicious.

So rather than using the comments on Virustotal, doing a general
Google search got an answer for me.

https://blog.sucuri.net/2011/03/brenz-pl-is-back-with-malicious-iframes.html

When you map things in the HOSTS file, that is a local
DNS table. It says "if a browser tries to open www.Brenz.pl,
then try address 127.0.0.1". Since 127.0.0.1 is the local computer
address (one of the shorthands for localhost and stated as such
in the HOSTS file itself), the browser will go to 127.0.0.1:80.

Normally, users do not run web servers on their local computer,
so an attempt to "browse" 127.0.0.1 is a kind of packet sink.
People would put lists of eight hundred different sites, like
doubleclick.net, to cause all the tracking site packets to be
dropped. That would be a normal usage of this trick.

I can't imagine an AV making that HOSTS entry, as I don't think
they normally battle malware in that way. The reason AVs don't
do that, is malware can use heuristically generated domain
names, as a function of time of day or day of week, and that
is an easy way to bypass a HOSTS file. The malware could
start using 12345678.com at noon, and your HOSTS file would be
rendered useless. With heuristically generated domains, a
"thing" elsewhere on the Internet, registers 12345678.com
at 11:55AM in the morning, so it is ready to use by the
malware at noon.

Now, a question would be, what clever things could you do by
running a web server on someones computer (if the malware put
the entry there) ?

Maybe your antispyware put that entry there ?

In any case, with an infected machine, you might want to
reach malwarebytes with a second (uninfected) computer. If
something sufficiently nasty, got into your local LAN,
you may end up using the public library computer, take
a blank CD with you, and write one of these onto it.

https://data-cdn.mbamupdates.com/web/mb3-setup-legacy/mb3-setup-legacywos-3.5.1.2522-1.0.365-1.0.5292.exe

There is the Kaspersky Rescue CD as an offline scanner.

The BitDefender CD still exists. Like Kaspersky, the OS on the
CD is based on Gentoo. But the BitDefender people are no where
near as good at setting up Gentoo, as the Kaspersky people are.
I did get BitDefender CD to run, but you have to set up an
Xserver on a second PC, set the display variable on BitDefender
when it cannot start the screen on the computer it is booted on.

DISPLAY=192.168.1.3:0
export DISPLAY

to be able to reach the Xserver and draw the BitDefender
interface window on it. Which is fun as a bar bet, but
not all that practical for someone who "just wants to run
a scan".

On the second computer, I was running this, and then BitDefender
would draw its operating screen, on my second computer.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/xming/

I would not normally have even thought of doing that, but the
icon for that was staring me in the face on the second computer desktop
and "ding! ding! ding!" came to mind :-) Initially I'd been trying
to get the graphics running on the BitDefender machine, but
things were looking pretty hopeless, when I glanced at the
other machine and remembered X protocol as an option.

Paul

JJ

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Jun 15, 2022, 10:49:39 AMJun 15
to
On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 15:40:56 -0500, lu...@invalid.com wrote:
>
> My point was that if he uses what I suggested, he wouldn't have all
> those "malware" problems. Those damn AV and "Security" programs have
> gotten so invasive they can be more treacherous than some malware.
>
> I found that out the hard way using some of those damn "Security"
> programs. People have been brainwashed into using all that "Security"
> crap - and that includes many of those untrustworthy AV programs.

There's really no point on convincing people not to use AVs, since most of
them are just clueless about security. They have no choice but to rely on
AVs. And it is their choice if they don't want to educate themselves.

AV companies know this, and they simply take advantage of it.

Back in the old days, AVs used to be capable and honest. But it all started
going worse when they stopped providing the ability to cure virus infected
programs, and instead, simply delete the infected programs. Nowaday, AVs are
disruptive enough in daily tasks - making them to behave just like malwares
but posing as AVs. Malwares which are glorified by the public. They're
nothing more than smarter malwares which are worse than common malwares.

But AVs aren't the only one to blame, it's the malware/virus writes which
should be blamed, because they're the ones who started all these mess. And I
don't think the punishment by law for making malware/virus is heavy/severe
enough, considering that the digital world has become crucial in our life.

RecentlOrLately

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Jun 15, 2022, 1:10:35 PMJun 15
to

I had long ago installed the Tor Browser to experiment with.

I tried the Tor Browser and it was able to access all the websites that
all my other browsers are NOT able to access.

Does this help identify the problem related to the other browsers?

J. P. Gilliver (John)

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Jun 15, 2022, 2:24:17 PMJun 15
to
On Wed, 15 Jun 2022 at 10:10:23, RecentlOrLately
<Recentl...@RecentlOrLately.com> wrote (my responses usually
FOLLOW):
What do you get if you ping those sites? (Open a command prompt and type

ping URL
).

You should get something like

D:\> ping bbc.co.uk

Pinging bbc.co.uk [151.101.0.81] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 151.101.0.81: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=58
Reply from 151.101.0.81: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=58
Reply from 151.101.0.81: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=58
Reply from 151.101.0.81: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=58

Ping statistics for 151.101.0.81:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 8ms, Maximum = 8ms, Average = 8ms

You should get a different IP (the 151.101.0.81 in the above example)
for each one you try.

Also try a non-existent one - you should get something like

D:\> ping xyzzy.ac
Ping request could not find host xyzzy.ac. Please check the name and try
again.

(These are from Windows 7, but I don't think ping has changed much since
XP or before.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Mary Poppins is a junkie" - bumper sticker on Julie Andrews' car in the '60s

Paul

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Jun 15, 2022, 2:47:51 PMJun 15
to
It says here, a hostname is resolved on the exit node on the other end.
In other words, WinXP DNS is not being used when you use the
TOR Browser and try to reach https://www.example.com .

https://tor.stackexchange.com/questions/8/how-does-tor-route-dns-requests

That does not allow me to narrow down the problem at all. I don't
know what the TOR Browser uses for an SChannel. Or certificates.

On the WinXP Host, open a command prompt and try

nslookup www.sun.com

104.124.10.27 # IPV4 address
104.124.10.91 # IPV4 address

and see if the local DNS is working for you. That's a start.
To work, the local browser in WinXP wants to use that number,
and the "www.sun.com" part is for human convenience.

But at this point, I don't have a mental picture of a
test strategy for a (known-broken) WinXP platform. There's
lots of stuff I don't know how to test, and I couldn't tell
the difference between a browser problem and an SChannel problem.
And I'm talking about the browser that is broken.

Paul

😉 Good Guy 😉

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Jun 15, 2022, 2:49:00 PMJun 15
to
On 15/06/2022 18:10, RecentlOrLately wrote:


Does this help identify the problem related to the other browsers?

The problem might be you are using old, unsupported browser and the website isn't supporting that browser or browsers and and XP has been unsupported by Microsoft since 2014.

People say XP is working for them so why do they need to upgrade the OS. The answer is it is NOT WORKING as you have just found out.

Tor is NOT a traditional browser in the real sense. They use Firefox but the browser is tweaked to a greater extent to make it their own and that is why they call it Tor and NOT Firefox. Mozilla's licensing terms prohibit them from claiming that it is compatible with Firefox because the code base is changed dramatically.


Arrest
Dictator Putin

We Stand
With Ukraine

Stop Putin
Ukraine Under Attack


--
Similar to Windows 11 Home edition, Windows 11 Pro edition now requires internet connectivity during the initial device setup (OOBE) only. If you choose to setup device for personal use, MSA will be required for setup as well. You can expect Microsoft Account to be required in subsequent WIP flights.

Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning

RecentlyOrLately

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Jun 15, 2022, 4:27:41 PMJun 15
to


Question
Is Time Freeze a good tool to run all the time for protection ?

What I did:
1) used to Tor browser to download the latest version of
SuperAnitiSpyware (SAS)

2) Ran it at max scan depth

3) it found many problems including four Trojans.

4) I asked SAS to remove all and it apparently did after erasing stuff
and my booting the laptop.

5) I tried the nslookup www.sun.com and it returned two IP addresses and
was successful.

6) I opened FireFox and so far I am able to surf some but not security
sites like superantispyware.com.

7) Not able to update superantispyware and am using 6 yo database 12156.

8) continuing to test ...

9) I am going to see if I can install NordVPN or some other.

Paul

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Jun 15, 2022, 10:53:45 PMJun 15
to
You could try reaching here and downloading the definitions this way.

https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/superantispyware_database_definitions.html

"SUPERAntiSpyware Database Definitions June 9, 2022 "

Author: SUPERAntiSpyware.com
Date: 06/07/2022
Size: 196 MB
License: Freeware

Techspot has one as well. It's newer.

https://www.techspot.com/downloads/5026-superantispyware-update.html

I don't think your malware will be inconvenienced at
all, by a VPN. But you can certainly try, for the experience.

You've made pretty good progress so far. Hope you have
a backup, just in case.

*******

No idea on the "Time Freeze". The most impressive subsystem
WinXP has got on it, is VSS (Volume Shadow Service) and it is
an OS mechanism for freezing a version of a partition. That's
used by backup software. It could be that the Time Freeze uses
VSS for part of what it does.

https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/toolwiz_time_freeze.html

Not every implementation of this idea has been a success.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GoBack

"Several users at CNET Reviews have reported data loss
after installing this product"

Ha! There are lots of stories of disasters. The more
of a power user a person was, the more likely a disaster
awaited.

And that's partially because GoBack was written entirely
by hand by the developers. VSS likely did not exist when
they wrote that.

Paul

RecentlyOrLately

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Jun 16, 2022, 11:31:03 AMJun 16
to
Thank you for those database links.

Having to use Tor to download. Now downloading. Slow !


Seems whenever, for example, superantispyware, is used in a link the
other browsers will not process and give me the server error message.

Tor has no problem so far.

So is there a browser addon, background running app or way of making a
websites locked out.
Sort of like or exactly like parental controls ?


RecentlyOrLately

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Jun 16, 2022, 11:35:09 AMJun 16
to
I did not know that the database was available separately.

A VPN would be much faster than the Tor browser.

I have NORD VPN on a Win 7 Pro but NORD is not available of Win XP Pro
32bit. Turns out Tor browser by itself and NORD VPN with Firefox have
very different search results, strange. So I stay away from that
confusion.




Mayayana

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Jun 16, 2022, 4:54:16 PMJun 16
to
<lu...@invalid.com> wrote

| That's why I said to hell with the whole "Security" thing. I don't
| expect hardly anyone to go to the Toolwiz page -
| http://www.toolwiz.com/lead/toolwiz_time_freeze/
|

That's a clunky method for dummies. Like system restore.
It uses a lot of space and processing power. Meanwhile,
there's no security. You've only got data backup. If you've
got malware stealing your credit card info online you'll never
know.


Paul

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Jun 16, 2022, 6:28:11 PMJun 16
to
On 6/16/2022 5:08 PM, lu...@invalid.com wrote:
> That's a bunch of deceitful half truths I won't even bother
> answering.
>

A review from 2012.

https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/toolwiz-time-freeze.4045005/

"I would recommend having a good image of your system before trying this
program out as I will likely reload it in a bit...after some more testing
of this program. I can't recommended it at this point however."

https://www.wilderssecurity.com/threads/toolwiz-time-freeze.313299/page-30

Aug 21, 2021

"Toowiz TimeFreeze and Shadow Defender is a No , Don't do it ..use 1 or the other not both.. "

I'm not finding reviews by sites like Tomshardware or the like for this.

Paul

Mayayana

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Jun 17, 2022, 7:52:55 AMJun 17
to
<lu...@invalid.com> wrote

| > That's a clunky method for dummies. Like system restore.
| >It uses a lot of space and processing power. Meanwhile,
| >there's no security. You've only got data backup. If you've
| >got malware stealing your credit card info online you'll never
| >know.
| >
|
| That's a bunch of deceitful half truths I won't even bother
| answering.

Emotional. It sounds like you own the company. Disk image
backup has been around for years. Backing up only changes
has also been around for years. I use disk image backup myself,
storing images of Windows with software installed. I also use
redundant disks for ongoing backup, and DVD backup. But
that's just backup. And your program is just an extreme of that,
blocking most file changes. I suppose a Linux boot OS would
also work that way. Clunky, but it will work.

Security is a different issue. It wouldn't make sense to trust
a program like TimeFreeze to block all malware when you're
nt making an effort to stop it getting onto your
machine in the first place. Beyond that there
are other issues. For example, if you willingly install a program
that's spyware and don't have a firewall program to block it,
your Freezer won't help. If you allow script in your browser,
TimeFreeze *might* prevent downloading ransomware, but it
won't help with your credit card number being stolen in transit
or from websites. There was a study just recently about how
what you type into forms could be read by numerous spy/ad
companies.

https://www.usenix.org/system/files/sec22fall_senol.pdf

Then there are issues like the person last week who stole
credit card data from Amazon in hopes of being a hero
whisteblower.

All of that is part of security. Personally, I think life is too short
to lock myself out of my own computer with clunky sandboxes in
order to stop malware, but it could be a partial help if you don't
mind the hassle...
Sorry to saddle you with so many interesting half-truths. But that's
what I was trying to say: Your approach might help but it's for people
who don't want to deal with the issue. It's like using uBlock Origin
extension for privacy. It's a lot better than nothing, but people use
it because they don't want any hassles, and they don't want to have to
understand all the details. They install uBO and then go to read their
gmail. That's not privacy.


Mayayana

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Jun 17, 2022, 12:00:54 PMJun 17
to
<lu...@invalid.com> wrote

| Web sites being hacked isn't what Time Freeze is about.

Exactly. That's all I'm saying. I'm not condemning sandboxes.
I'm just saying they're clunky, resource-hungry measures for
people who can't or won't understand security.

| >https://www.usenix.org/system/files/sec22fall_senol.pdf
|
| Are you flippin' serious? You think I'm reading all that crap?

No, I actually don't. :) That's why you need TimeFreeze. But this
is a piblic forum, and for anyone concerned with privacy/security,
it may be a very interesting read.


R.Wieser

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Jun 17, 2022, 4:03:52 PMJun 17
to
luke,

> Time Freeze *does* keep malware from getting into
> the machine. Look it up again how a sandbox works.

Luke, if you have no clue what the difference between a sandbox and a
product like "Time Freeze" is you should really refrain from opening your
mouth. At all.


FYI, a sandbox tries to put a wall between the sand /in/ the box and the
world /outside/ it. As such *it shields* the OS, its connections with the
outside world and its attached hardware from being communicated with -
unless you configure otherwise.

A product like "Time Freeze" ? All it does is *restoring some files* when
you tell it to. And as mayayana tried to explain to you, in the mean time
any malware that gets loaded is free to do as it pleases.

And yes, that includes calling home with whatever tasty bits it can find on
your HDs, accessing your printers and other hardware, even zombifying your
machine to send massive loads of spam, DDOSing other machines and so on.

tl;dr:
You are suggesting Mayayana to read up on stuff ? I suggest you do that
yourself.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


Paul

unread,
Jun 17, 2022, 5:33:43 PMJun 17
to
It seems to be an overlay file system, and these may be
referred to as "Internet Cafe" software or "Public Library"
software, such as the version my library uses.

As far as I know, they're not necessarily bulletproof,
because library computers do occasionally need to be
nuked and paved. And I'm sure our two librarians at
the local branch have had to do these before. The library is
still using Core2 processors on their systems, and plain
old hard drives.

The library software restores to the pristine state, by
rebooting between customers. And somewhere in that
sequence, is when the overlay is dealt with.

Microsoft has a kind of overlay file system, for dealing
with 32GB eMMC tablets and making the storage stretch further.
Patches are not applied to the original image, and patches
are a delta on top of the original (something like a 4GB blob
in flash). It's not quite the same thing as Internet Cafe
software. Microsoft has used more than one scheme, as they
weren't happy with the overall storage performance (given
enough patches, it begins to get bloated).

Their current OS doesn't have a block diagram, showing all
the features in virtualization space. There is an actual
sandbox, with an ~2.6GB blob representing a pared down OS,
and a copy of that blob is what the sandbox uses when
you request such an operation. Since the blob is immutable,
the OS can make copies of it, and run more than one sandbox
at a time. I've never seen any practical articles on this
with details we could use. (Perhaps Win10 or Win11 Pro has this,
I'm running Win11 Home at the moment, but have another disk
with Win11 Pro on it. It's not in the Home version Windows Features.
Neither is HyperV hosting.)

Paul

R.Wieser

unread,
Jun 18, 2022, 3:43:50 AMJun 18
to
Paul,

> It seems to be an overlay file system, and these may be
> referred to as "Internet Cafe" software or "Public Library"
> software, such as the version my library uses.

AFAIK its early demographic was shared computers at schools. In its
earlier days (on DOS) it often came with/needed some add-on cards (between
the 'puter and its HD) to be effective.

> As far as I know, they're not necessarily bulletproof,
> because library computers do occasionally need to be
> nuked and paved.

Indeed. Its just that "Trime Freeze" and its ilk where (normally) quite a
bit faster than a full restore (done automatically in the evenings or
weekends), especially when done over a (slowish) LAN while patrons where
using it.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


R.Wieser

unread,
Jun 18, 2022, 3:43:52 AMJun 18
to
Luke,

> Keep playing with words, wannabe tekkies.

Just keep throwing words, noob.

That you do not start out with knowing everything (are a novice) is a fact
of life. That you activily reject information when its offered to you makes
you a willfully ignorant person (a noob).

> The final fact is that Time Freeze works.

So does using a hammer to drive a screw into some wood, or using a
screwdriver to get a nail outof the same. Neither is a good idea, and for
both there are more apropriate and effective tools available.

> Time Freeze - With sandbox mode

As far as I'm concerned "Time Freeze" does not belong in that list at all,
as its not a sandbox at all.

The below quote is from the ToolWiz site itself :

"Turnning on the Time Freeze mode, the whole system is running in the
"sandbox".

Which is exactly what I've been telling you, and why the "sandbox" mode of
that product is a lie. Nothing is kept inside. IOW, a bit or marketing
spin, aimed at the unweary (you).

As for those links ? The first link spews gibberish :

"Verdict: With the new sandboxing feature, Time Freeze will not be able to
do its malicious objectives because of the limitations that will be placed
on it. With the virtualization technology, Time Freeze cannot sandbox itself
and this means it cannot run any harmful programs on your computer."

'Time Freeze' has got "malicious objectives" ? "it (Time Freeze) cannot
run any harmful programs" ? What the actual F*ck ?

All the others do not even mention actual sandboxing capabilities - Other
that it "works very differently". No sh*t sherlock!

Bottom line :
'Time Freeze' Doesn't *protect* you from malware - it just shorthens its
lifespan (1) - and it certainly doesn't protect others (2) when your
"sandbox" is infected.

(1) I wonder where you store the files that you want to keep ... On an USB
stick perhaps ? Which you no doubt (by accident?) also use when your
machine is /not/ in "Time Freeze" mode - as well as on other computers ?
Yeah, right ....

(2) Attacking your own routers is /much/ easier when done from the LAN side.
Same goes for attacking any other machine (computer or otherwise) on your
LAN. Besides not being stopped in any way from going out to the internet
ofcourse.

Kid, I'm sure that you think your solution works for you. But looking at
the links you provided and how you think that those support your stance
while they actually don't I don't think I will take your advice on the
subject.

> This farce of a "discussion" is over.

Looking at how you respond to any information not in line with your own
convictions I think I can say that there never was a discussion to begin
with (look up the word and what it actually means).

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


Mayayana

unread,
Jun 18, 2022, 7:36:48 AMJun 18
to
"R.Wieser" <add...@not.available> wrote

|
| That you do not start out with knowing everything (are a novice) is a fact
| of life. That you activily reject information when its offered to you
makes
| you a willfully ignorant person (a noob).
|

If I have my facts straight, according to the noted linguist
and silly word expert, VanguardLH, a noob is someone lacking
experience, while a willfully ignorant person is referred to as
a "boob" in family-friendy newsgroups. (From the Middle
English "boobe", to act like a breast, originally derived from the
Latin "dipshit".)


R.Wieser

unread,
Jun 18, 2022, 8:34:50 AMJun 18
to
Mayayana,

> If I have my facts straight, according to the noted linguist
> and silly word expert, VanguardLH, a noob is someone lacking
> experience,

Than I wonder than what he thinks a "novice" is ...

> while a willfully ignorant person is referred to as a "boob"
> in family-friendy newsgroups. (From the Middle English "boobe",
> to act like a breast, originally derived from the Latin
> "dipshit".)

I have no problem with calling anyone a "dipshit" (or similar), but I'm
quite sure that if I nowerdays call /anyone/ a "boob" (outside of england) I
would quite likely get angry PC-correct and gender anti-discrimination mobs
carrying pitchforks and tar on my trail, so I'll pass on that one. :-)

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


Mayayana

unread,
Jun 18, 2022, 9:50:24 AMJun 18
to
"R.Wieser" <add...@not.available> wrote

| Than I wonder than what he thinks a "novice" is ...
|

A novice is a noob, or newb, or newbie. Personally I dislike
those cutesy terms. That includes "proggy" for program.

| I have no problem with calling anyone a "dipshit" (or similar), but I'm
| quite sure that if I nowerdays call /anyone/ a "boob" (outside of england)
I
| would quite likely get angry PC-correct and gender anti-discrimination
mobs
| carrying pitchforks and tar on my trail, so I'll pass on that one. :-)
|

I've never actually heard it from anyone other than V.
It never occurred to me that he might be British.
It's also a very archaic slang in the US. For example, the
cultural satire movie Boob Tube in the 70s. Boob Tube
referred to TV and the idea that it made people stupid.

This interesting link indicates entirely separate origins
for the two meanings of the word:

https://www.etymonline.com/word/boob


R.Wieser

unread,
Jun 18, 2022, 10:36:35 AMJun 18
to
Mayayana,

> A novice is a noob, or newb, or newbie.

Ah, ofcourse. I must say that I find "novice" sound a bit friendlier
(though more detached) than even "newbie".

Though I understood from long ago that "noob" was rather derogatory, with
the meaning I described - a "novice" unwilling to learn. Having said that,
do you perhaps know of a current word for it ?

> Boob Tube referred to TV and the idea that it made people
> stupid.

I have heard that one a number of times, but never knew the origin of it.
At some point I assumed to be referring to the kids looking at it, keeping
them content - as happens to babies suckling their mothers tit.

> This interesting link indicates entirely separate origins
> for the two meanings of the word:
>
> https://www.etymonline.com/word/boob

Thanks for that. A short (as I like it) but interresting read.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


Mayayana

unread,
Jun 18, 2022, 8:36:40 PMJun 18
to
"R.Wieser" <add...@not.available> wrote

|
| Though I understood from long ago that "noob" was rather derogatory, with
| the meaning I described - a "novice" unwilling to learn. Having said
that,
| do you perhaps know of a current word for it ?
|

Your English literacy is remarkable.

You want a word for a stubborn novice who doesn't
want to learn? I'm not sure there's a single word for that.
I guess there should be. Hardheaded. Pigheaded. But of
course those are adjectives. "Youth" comes close. :)
I notice that more as I get older. Young men need to prove
themselves to themselves. By their nature they often bristle
at assistance or advice ad feel a need to outdo oldtimers.

There's a famous quote from Mark Twain that goes something
like: "When I was 14 I couldn't believe what a fool my father was.
By the time I was 21, I was amazed how much the old man had
learned in just a few years."

(Remembering that 40 is the new 21.)

My own father used to have that taped to his refrigerator,
letting us know that he still resented his expertise not being
valued by his upstart offspring.... I guess "upstart" is a good
word, but it really refers to someone who has attained some
kind of power beyond their wisdom. Like the boss's son being
promoted to manager.


R.Wieser

unread,
Jun 19, 2022, 3:41:15 AMJun 19
to
Mayayana,

> Your English literacy is remarkable.

Thank you. Having read book stories in the language (I ran out of
translated ones) might have had something to do with it.

> You want a word for a stubborn novice who doesn't want to learn? I'm not
> sure there's a single word for that. I guess there should be. Hardheaded.
> Pigheaded. But of > course those are adjectives. "Youth" comes close. :)

Although youth almost always go thru a period where they think they know
everything, my definition of the word is more about the "refuses to learn"
part (or perhaps just "refuses to listen"), which is ageless.

I'm frequenting a website ( https://notalwaysright.com/right ) which has a
lot of stories. Some of them are about higly-educated (quoted and unquoted)
persons having a problem with their computers malfunctioning in some way and
than demand the IT department to come an fix it.

And than the IT guy just switches on the "space heater" (the actual
computer), swapss the mis-layed keyboard or mouse with the computer next to
him, takes the book off of the "ESC" (or other) key, puts a new battery into
a wireless keyboard or mouse, etc. IOW, dumb stuff.

The worst story was about someone who moved his computer to the other side
of his cubicle for which he had to unplug a few cables (network among them)
and could not figure out why he couldn't log into his computer anymore - and
not having enough consciousness to retrace/reverse his steps to try to
locate the problem that way.

> There's a famous quote from Mark Twain that goes something
> like: "When I was 14 I couldn't believe what a fool my father was.
> By the time I was 21, I was amazed how much the old man had
> learned in just a few years."

:-) Doesn't his youthfull arrogance just explodes outof that saying ? Its
not him who changed, but his father.

> My own father used to have that taped to his refrigerator,
> letting us know that he still resented his expertise not
> being valued by his upstart offspring....

I wonder if he ever thought about the reverse happening as well ...

> I guess "upstart" is a good word, but it really refers to someone
> who has attained some kind of power beyond their wisdom.

I don't think that applies to our Luke here.

Well, with the absense of a new word for "a novice" refusing to learn" I
will probably just keep using the old one.

Hey, do you think that if I keep doing that long enough it will come back
into fashion ? :-)

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


Mayayana

unread,
Jun 19, 2022, 7:45:18 AMJun 19
to
"R.Wieser" <add...@not.available> wrote

| Well, with the absense of a new word for "a novice" refusing to learn" I
| will probably just keep using the old one.
|
| Hey, do you think that if I keep doing that long enough it will come back
| into fashion ? :-)
|

I don't think it was ever in fashion, so I'm not
sure people will understand you. Threre is always
"know-it-all". Or my favorite: " A person with limited
self knowledge who believes that 'holding their own' in
an online discussion means flinging crude insults, being
mean, and generally disrespecting others."

There's a lot of that these days. It seems to be
loosely based on a theory that if you sink all other
ships, your own will end up floating the highest. That,
and a tendency to have tantrums easily. I attribute that
latter quality to mothers routinely letting their kids reject
the meal being served. The kids then learn that tantrums
are a good way to get more attention and to generally
improve experience. A tantrum will magically turn oatmeal
into cocoa puffs; brocolli into pizza. So the kids grow up
thinking that tantrums are an important life skill.

What are the mothers thinking? Beats me. They seem to
believe that their unfailing service to their little princes
and princesses demonstrates their dedication as mothers.


R.Wieser

unread,
Jun 19, 2022, 9:56:37 AMJun 19
to
Mayayana,

> I don't think it was ever in fashion, so I'm not
> sure people will understand you.

In that case those will just think I'm using an alternate to "novice", which
isn't all that bad either. I don't think I will use "willfully ignorant"
to much ...

> There's a lot of that these days. It seems to be
> loosely based on a theory that if you sink all other
> ships, your own will end up floating the highest.

Translation : If someone gets all others to leave (by whatever means) than
he must have been the one that was right. Yeah, some people have a mental
defect that makes them use that kind of logic.

The odd thing is that I've met people like that who actually do come over as
intelligent enough to build a case for/against something (and from it have a
decent discussion) - but they don't, and I can't figure out why ...

> So the kids grow up thinking that tantrums are an important
> life skill.

They certainly learn that they can bend others to their will by acting outof
the ordinary that way. Not good.

> What are the mothers thinking? Beats me. They seem to
> believe that their unfailing service to their little princes
> and princesses demonstrates their dedication as mothers.

I'm assuming that you are talking about mothers who get sucked into that
behaviour(1), and not the ones who activily support it (2).

(1) its hard to determine when to start to say "no" to a bundle of innocence
that life starts out as. That, and the urge to placate a toddler which
does that - either in a false sense of not wanting him/her to suffer, or
just to end the theatrics because shopping-time runs out.

(2) The website I spoke of earlier also has that kind of stories.
Upto-and-including some woman dumping a stranger outof his *private*
wheelchair because her kid had sore feet (yeah, really) and the
store-provided wheelchairs where "not good enough".

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


Mayayana

unread,
Jun 20, 2022, 8:31:05 AMJun 20
to
More fun words:

Whippersnapper. Somewhat archaic, but it basically means
a wiseass young person. Disrespectful and always having a
comeback. I'm fond of "wiseacre", but that word
is not widely known in the modern dialect. It refers to someone
who talks a lot, with gravity, about nothing much. Like political
commentators on TV. Or self-appointed experts.

My thesaurus lists wiseacre under "ignoramus" and whippersnapper
under a subcategory of "infant".


pyotr filipivich

unread,
Jun 20, 2022, 12:06:33 PMJun 20
to
"Mayayana" <maya...@invalid.nospam> on Mon, 20 Jun 2022 08:30:49
-0400 typed in microsoft.public.windowsxp.general the following:
>More fun words:
>
> Whippersnapper. Somewhat archaic, but it basically means
>a wiseass young person. Disrespectful and always having a
>comeback. I'm fond of "wiseacre", but that word
>is not widely known in the modern dialect. It refers to someone
>who talks a lot, with gravity, about nothing much. Like political
>commentators on TV. Or self-appointed experts.

"Walking Bicylopedia of Misinformation" was my grandfather's
expression.
>
> My thesaurus lists wiseacre under "ignoramus" and whippersnapper
>under a subcategory of "infant".
>
--
pyotr filipivich
This Week's Panel: Us & Them - Eliminating Them.
Next Month's Panel: Having eliminated the old Them(tm)
Selecting who insufficiently Woke(tm) as to serve as the new Them(tm)

Mayayana

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Jun 20, 2022, 2:02:14 PMJun 20
to
"pyotr filipivich" <ph...@mindspring.com> wrote

| "Walking Bicylopedia of Misinformation" was my grandfather's
| expression.


I like that one.


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