Microsoft extends XP downgrade rights date by six months
the granter of sina
http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1619
Microsoft is sending some very confusing signals about Windows Vista - the
latest of which it issued via a statement on October 3.
The Register reported on October 2 that Microsoft was going to extend again
the date until which PC makers would be allowed to continue to offer Windows
users "downgrade rights," enabling them to switch from Vista to XP on new
machines. The Reg said Microsoft had moved the downgrade cut-off date from
January 31, 2009 to July 31, 2009.
I asked Microsoft about the Reg's report and got this statement, via a
company spokesperson:
"As more customers make the move to Windows Vista, we want to make sure
that they are making that transition with confidence and that it is as
smooth as possible. Providing downgrade media for a few more months is part
of that commitment, as is the Windows Vista Small Business Assurance program
(available in the U.S. only), which provides 1-on-1, customized support for
our small business customers."
In other words, the Reg's story was correct.
The spokesperson sent further clarification:
"What's changing is Microsoft is giving six more months where it will
provide downgrade media for XP Professional for OEMs and system builders to
provide to their customers who purchase Windows Vista Ultimate and Business
editions - (which the company figures will be) largely going to be small
businesses since that's the audience that would want/use XP Pro. So it's the
same old downgrade right thing that was in the EULA (End User License
Agreement) before; it's just Microsoft is providing the media to partners a
few months more."
"The same caveat with providing the downgrade media as before applies,
which is OEMs and system builders don't have to do so if they don't want -
it's their business decision to make."
Microsoft has extended XP's end-of-life date before. In Apri 2008 l,
Microsoft officials said the company was not going to extend again the date
on which it required OEMs to stop preloading XP on new machines. That date
was June 30, 2008. Microsoft did say that system builders, a k a white box
vendors, would be allowed to continue to preload XP on new systems until
January 31, 2009. OEMs and system builders both were OK'd to continue
preloading XP on new ultra-low-cost systems through 2010, as many of those
systems were and are incapable of running Vista.
Bottom line: Even though Microsoft is maintaining publicly that Vista is
finally ready for prime time, it is allowing PC makers to continue to offer
customers XP. So what's a user to believe? Is Microsoft really standing
behind Vista? And if it's not - but instead is doing what customers really
want (while simply giving lip-service to Vista's readiness - is that still a
positive?
Chuck
fall/winter of 2007 do not run Vista well.
1. First problem -- Processor and memory speeds & amount of memory. (Most
laptops use part of System RAM for Video RAM, and it may be a significant
amount.)
2. Video and sound drivers (combined with "dual core" processors ) Quite a
few of the laptops develop "stuttering" that is usually sound, although some
also have the same problem with video. Seems that the affected laptops were
released with 32bit Vista versions, and there was no upgrade path to 64bit,
due to lack of drivers. The Video drivers are just now being updated enough
to permit fair (low option) game play of the newer graphics intensive games.
DX10 is another issue in the same general area. The "Classic" mode seems to
be almost mandatory if reasonable speed is to be maintained.
3. An additional problem is that win XP drivers may not be available for
these laptops.
I believe that XP should have one more "final" release, fully patched &
SP'd, and be available to the public as either a "downgrade", or an
upgrade/refresh for existing systems.
"the granter of sina" <gra...@yan.sina> wrote in message
news:48e6...@newsgate.x-privat.org...
Frank
-----------------------------------------
You stupid pile of shit...this mainly will be for businesses because...
"What’s changing is Microsoft is giving six more months where it will
provide downgrade media for XP Professional for OEMs and system builders
to provide to their customers who purchase Windows Vista Ultimate and
Business editions" –
You need to shove your stupid idiotic moronic head a little further up
your fat dumb ass cause you're still leaking shit!...LOL!
Loser!
the granter of sina
and worse!
This means that if for example Dell wants to offer this path of downgrade to
all its customers as an option for even longer than before
it can. Its not mainly for businesses, its for everyone buying a pc, and to
be sure demand for XP is stronger than the demand for vista..
"Frank" <fr...@nopam.org> wrote in message news:gc6v37$khg$1...@aioe.org...
Vista Cabal
"the granter of sina" <gra...@yan.sina> wrote in message
news:48e6...@newsgate.x-privat.org...
>
>
That's precisely it, it's a business descision, not a crap one.
- Vista Cabal
Alias
And, next to Windows Me and Microsoft Bob, one of the worst decisions
Microsoft has ever made.
Alias
Frank
> first you couldn’t write, now you cant read..... frank you are getting
> worse and worse!
>
You're dumber than a door knob you idiot moron POS loser.
Most all computers that come with Vista pre-installed have Vista Premium
on them, which doesn't qualify for "downgrade".
You are a jackass idiot asshole loser.
Get lost you dumb fukk!...LOL!
the granter of sina
EXTREMELY HAPPY to pay more cash for business just to use the downgrade
rights
to get RID of vista!
Again this is experience talking.. while you are just a monkey that escaped
from the zoo
"Frank" <fr...@nopam.org> wrote in message news:gc7v7c$v0k$1...@aioe.org...
Frank
> Sure but people once (and if) they find out about the downgrade rights
> are EXTREMELY HAPPY to pay more cash for business just to use the
> downgrade rights
> to get RID of vista!
Bullshit! You're a lying POS loser.
>
> Again this is experience talking..
You work at a GD help desk you lying sack of useless, stupid shit!
while you are just a monkey that
> escaped from the zoo
Hey you dumb fukk, I'm the one who has multiple installs of Vista
Ultimate X32 & X64 running properly.
You're the incompetent asshole loser who can't get one little install of
Vista to run properly.
Go fukk yourself you idiot moron loser.
Ringmaster
Everybody's favorite asshole, the idiot Frank, having another hissy
fit. I love to watch this moron implode.
Frank's Keeper
>head-up-his ass wrote:
>> first you couldn’t write, now you cant read..... frank you are getting
>> worse and worse!
>>
>
>You're dumber than a door knob you idiot moron POS loser.
>Most all computers that come with Vista pre-installed have Vista Premium
>on them, which doesn't qualify for "downgrade".
>You are a jackass idiot asshole loser.
>Get lost you dumb fukk!...LOL!
Oh look, it's the shit stain called Frank having another hissy fit.
Ringmaster
>lying-sack-of-shit wrote:
>> Sure but people once (and if) they find out about the downgrade rights
>> are EXTREMELY HAPPY to pay more cash for business just to use the
>> downgrade rights
>> to get RID of vista!
>
>Bullshit! You're a lying POS loser.
>>
>> Again this is experience talking..
>
>You work at a GD help desk you lying sack of useless, stupid shit!
>
> while you are just a monkey that
>> escaped from the zoo
>
>Hey you dumb fukk, I'm the one who has multiple installs of Vista
>Ultimate X32 & X64 running properly.
You run around in circles with foam coming out of your mouth and shit
running down you leg. That is all you are capable of because you a
mental case that thinks everyone should worship Microsoft like you do.
>You're the incompetent asshole loser who can't get one little install of
>Vista to run properly.
>Go fukk yourself you idiot moron loser.
Temper, temper Frank, you might have a stroke if you don't calm down.
Damn, you sure are a ranting, raving fuckwit. That's for sure.
Everybody watch the monkey named Frank dance. What a idiot!
Frank
Oh look, I'm the shit stained asshole having another hissy fit.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Hahahah...yep...you sure are!...LOL!
Canuck57
"Chuck" <cdk...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:ec9Su1cJ...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> All I can say to this is that MANY of the "leading" OEM laptops sold in
> the fall/winter of 2007 do not run Vista well.
> 1. First problem -- Processor and memory speeds & amount of memory. (Most
> laptops use part of System RAM for Video RAM, and it may be a significant
> amount.)
While my system isn't a laptop, it is a Q6600 quad processor and 8GB of RAM
with 2 500GB SATA drives. And it is pig slow at network and disk to disk
copy.
> 2. Video and sound drivers (combined with "dual core" processors ) Quite
> a few of the laptops develop "stuttering" that is usually sound, although
> some also have the same problem with video. Seems that the affected
> laptops were released with 32bit Vista versions, and there was no upgrade
> path to 64bit, due to lack of drivers. The Video drivers are just now
> being updated enough to permit fair (low option) game play of the newer
> graphics intensive games. DX10 is another issue in the same general area.
> The "Classic" mode seems to be almost mandatory if reasonable speed is to
> be maintained.
A flaw in Vista's design. You shouldn't need a super computer to run the
graphics. And they are not without issues either, noisy fans, heat, power,
drivers...
> 3. An additional problem is that win XP drivers may not be available for
> these laptops.
Actually, they usually are. It would be more accurate to state your vendor
does not want to support their use and isn't telling you where to get them.
For example, I go to Intel and slip stream in the XP drivers and back to
much faster XP. But the vendor will not tell you that as a rule. Probably
because of their M$ agreements and predatory pricing.
> I believe that XP should have one more "final" release, fully patched &
> SP'd, and be available to the public as either a "downgrade", or an
> upgrade/refresh for existing systems.
Agreed. But for customers to get what they want a few ego's at M$ need to
be fixed.
Canuck57
"the granter of sina" <gra...@yan.sina> wrote in message
> Sure but people once (and if) they find out about the downgrade rights are
> EXTREMELY HAPPY to pay more cash for business just to use the downgrade
> rights
> to get RID of vista!
>
> Again this is experience talking.. while you are just a monkey that
> escaped from the zoo
They should but instead are rushing out Win7 for the triple dip.
Buy a Vista OEM PC, decide it is crap.
Buy XP, run it for awhile
Then buy Win 7
Triple dip.
Vendors should find it most economical and easy on a drive to popup and ask,
"Will that be Vista or XP?" . For that mater, a 500GB should be able to
hold almost every version of MS-Windows and Linux out there and let the user
chose! Once the user chooses, drop the unused OSes off and reclaim the disk
on install.
In fact, for those of us who don't want M$ tax or perhaps a M$ worshiper
with a full version doesn't have to pay for an unused OEM version. This is
the quad dip:
Buy Vista OEM PC, decide it is crap.
Buy Vista Ultimate full version, it doesn't fix your issues
Buy XP, run it for awhile
Then buy Win 7
M$ is a sink hole for money if you are not careful.
the granter of sina
filled with the crap you spew
"Frank" <fr...@nopam.org> wrote in message news:gc8265$bhs$1...@aioe.org...
cavalier
"unknown" wrote:
>cavalier wrote to unknown. You must be source of worry to your parents
measekite
> head-up-his ass wrote:
>> first you couldn’t write, now you cant read..... frank you are getting
>> worse and worse!
>>
>
> You're dumber than a door knob you idiot moron POS loser.
Hey Frankie Crankie how do you determine the intelligence of a door knob.
Did you give it an IQ test
the granter of sina
door-knob and saw his distorted reflection (that by the way made him look
slightly better than his normal distorted face looks) lol
"measekite" <inkys...@oem.com> wrote in message
news:FGPFk.2526$c45....@nlpi065.nbdc.sbc.com...
measekite
> lying-sack-of-shit wrote:
>> Sure but people once (and if) they find out about the downgrade rights
>> are EXTREMELY HAPPY to pay more cash for business just to use the
>> downgrade rights
>> to get RID of vista!
>
> Bullshit! You're a lying POS loser.
>>
>> Again this is experience talking..
>
> You work at a GD help desk you lying sack of useless, stupid shit!
You did not spell it right. You mean GOD right?
>
> while you are just a monkey that
Are you talking about Da Baboon?
>> escaped from the zoo
>
> Hey you dumb fukk, I'm the one who has multiple installs of Vista
> Ultimate X32 & X64 running properly.
> You're the incompetent asshole loser who can't get one little install of
> Vista to run properly.
Who cares about Vista. I bet his Linux is running OK.
> Go fukk yourself you idiot moron loser.
Speaking from experience would you please tell the group how you do that?
cavalier
"unknown" wrote:
> cavalier wrote to unknown. You must be a source of worry to your parents
Plato
>
> 1. First problem -- Processor and memory speeds & amount of memory. (Most
> laptops use part of System RAM for Video RAM, and it may be a significant
> amount.)
I believe all, most all, laptops use system ram for video ram, as do
most new desktops.
Plato
>
> Microsoft is sending some very confusing signals about Windows Vista - the
> latest of which it issued via a statement on October 3.
>
> The Register reported on October 2 that Microsoft was going to extend again
> the date until which PC makers would be allowed to continue to offer Windows
> users "downgrade rights," enabling them to switch from Vista to XP on new
I'm also a bit confused. The other Sunday I was watching NASCAR with a
neighbor and was considering bringing my laptop over after signing up
with their special service, which required a high end pc/laptop, so I
went to Dell and looked for laptops as it was about time for me to get
in shape, and they all seemed to come with Vista, but for $100 _more_
you could get a _downgrade_ to XP.
Too weird for me. I closed the page.
Sunny
"Plato" <|@|.|> wrote in message
news:48ec55a2$0$272$bb4e...@newscene.com...
If you had read and understood the offer i.e.
You get two OS - Vista and WinXP CDs.
Bob I
+Bob+ wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Oct 2008 17:19:35 +1000, "Sunny" <womba...@yahoo.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>
>>If you had read and understood the offer i.e.
>>You get two OS - Vista and WinXP CDs.
>
>
> The point is that most of us don't want Vista, so we're effectively
> paying an extra $100 to get XP. Dell knows that, and is gouging out
> $100 if you want XP.
>
Actually, the point is that you aren't buying XP, only Vista, and if you
insist on having XP installed instead as a special option you will pay
for the adder.
Frank
> On Wed, 8 Oct 2008 17:19:35 +1000, "Sunny" <womba...@yahoo.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>
>>If you had read and understood the offer i.e.
>>You get two OS - Vista and WinXP CDs.
>
>
> The point is that most of us don't want Vista, so we're effectively
> paying an extra $100 to get XP.
"...most of us..."?
I've seen less than 10-15 posters in here wanting or threating to go
back to XP.
Hardly qualifies as "most of us".
Dell knows that, and is gouging out
> $100 if you want XP.
So that is MS's fault?
Grow up bob!
Frank
"Downgrade" is the operative word.
But why would anyone pay $100 to "downgrade" anything?
Are there that many stupid people out there?
John John (MVP)
You don't have to pay to downgrade, it's part of the Vista business
license as it was part of the XP Professional license as it was part of
the Windows 2000 Professional license as it is and was part of different
Server versions. No one says you have to pay an OEM to do this for you
but it is up to you to supply the previous version installation media
and to make sure that drivers for the older version are available for
the new hardware, so sometimes paying the OEM may be easier than doing
it yourself or it may give the buyer a reassurance that the hardware
will work with the older operating system and that it will be guaranteed
and supported by the OEM.
Why would business customers want downgrade rights? Perhaps if you were
administering several hundred or several thousand workstations you might
find that it is easier to maintain your machines if they all have the
same operating system. Or maybe you have specialized applications or
custom software that was designed to run on Windows XP but that doesn't
work so well on the newer Windows version, changing the older or custom
applications may not be a feasible option at this particular time so you
might instead exercise your downgrade rights, for business customers
this is not something that is as stupid as some might think. As I said
above, this is nothing new, it's been around for a while and it is aimed
at corporate clients, most people misunderstand the purpose of the
downgrade rights but if they so chose to exercise it it is theirs to
exercise if they buy business versions of the operating system.
John
Terry R.
out on the keyboard:
> +Bob+ wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 8 Oct 2008 17:19:35 +1000, "Sunny" <womba...@yahoo.com.au>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> If you had read and understood the offer i.e.
>>> You get two OS - Vista and WinXP CDs.
>>
>> The point is that most of us don't want Vista, so we're effectively
>> paying an extra $100 to get XP.
>
> "...most of us..."?
>
> I've seen less than 10-15 posters in here wanting or threating to go
> back to XP.
> Hardly qualifies as "most of us".
>
"Most of us" is infinitely beyond the limits of this little newsgroup
server. This newsgroup absolutely doesn't qualify as "most of us"
either. Maybe you should read a few tech articles if you need to be
educated on who isn't moving to Vista.
And you're cross-posting to an XP group, so in here that IS "most of us".
--
Terry R.
***Reply Note***
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.
Frank
> The date and time was 10/8/2008 7:26 AM, and on a whim, Frank pounded
> out on the keyboard:
>
>> +Bob+ wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 8 Oct 2008 17:19:35 +1000, "Sunny" <womba...@yahoo.com.au>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> If you had read and understood the offer i.e.
>>>> You get two OS - Vista and WinXP CDs.
>>>
>>>
>>> The point is that most of us don't want Vista, so we're effectively
>>> paying an extra $100 to get XP.
>>
>>
>> "...most of us..."?
>>
>> I've seen less than 10-15 posters in here wanting or threating to go
>> back to XP.
>> Hardly qualifies as "most of us".
>>
>
> "Most of us" is infinitely beyond the limits of this little newsgroup
> server. This newsgroup absolutely doesn't qualify as "most of us"
> either. Maybe you should read a few tech articles if you need to be
> educated on who isn't moving to Vista.
"...who isn't moving to Vista"?
Sorry, but that isn't the same as paying $100 to downgrade.
And you're cross-posting to an XP group, so in here that IS "most of us".
I answered a cross-post. I didn't originate it.
Frank
Then obviously those saying it will cost $100 to "downgrade" are confused.
John John (MVP)
It may cost more because you have to buy a business version when maybe a
home version might be all that you need. What the OEMs decide to charge
to do the downgrade is up to them, but not all OEMs charge for this
service. Some OEMs will supply an XP Pro restoration disk free of
charge with their Vista Business machines, if the buyer wants to use XP
he simply has to do a factory restore to the XP version, I know that
Lenovo does this with their ThinkPads. So you're right, it doesn't
necessarily cost $100 to downgrade your machine, people are saying that
because that is what one of the large major OEM charges to do it for
their customers, people can shop elsewhere and see what other OEMs have
to offer.
John
xfile
> administering several hundred or several thousand workstations you might
> find that it is easier to maintain your machines if they all have the same
> operating system. Or maybe you have specialized applications or custom
> software that was designed to run on Windows XP but that doesn't work so
> well on the newer Windows version, changing the older or custom
> applications may not be a feasible option at this particular time so you
> might instead exercise your downgrade rights, for business customers this
> is not something that is as stupid as some might think. As I said above,
> this is nothing new, it's been around for a while and it is aimed at
> corporate clients, most people misunderstand the purpose of the downgrade
> rights but if they so chose to exercise it it is theirs to exercise if
> they buy business versions of the operating system.
I agree with you mostly except the following:
The magnitude has never been this large though it is known that corporate
customers are, rightfully, cautious. However, corporate customers are
normally signed in with volume licenses and if one pays attentions to the
offer from brand name system providers, one will also know that it's not
just corporate customers but also a larger number of SMBs (small and medium
business) are doing so.
Apart from the "standard" costs of migrating to a new operating system,
Vista also requires a large amount of "retraining" cost including
interruption of work and user dissatisfaction, and we are still dealing with
some primitive issues (e.g. file copying, basic networking issues, etc.)
after Windows has been introduced, say, 20+ years?
On one hand, we have increased cost without reducing any of previous
standard migration costs such as some of you already mentioned, and on the
other hand, what are "tangible" benefits (key word: tangible, not
sensational or feeling safer)?
Also with today's global competitive environment, I seriously doubt any
proper trained decision maker will give it a go.
The newer version will have to deliver one critical business element
regardless of its technical hype and that is, If it cannot present
*tangible* benefits, it needs to reduce deployment/migration cost, or it
will face the same if not a worse situation.
"John John (MVP)" <aude...@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
news:gcii7i$gn9$1...@aioe.org...
Terry R.
out on the keyboard:
> Terry R. wrote:
>> The date and time was 10/8/2008 7:26 AM, and on a whim, Frank pounded
>> out on the keyboard:
>>
>>> +Bob+ wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 8 Oct 2008 17:19:35 +1000, "Sunny" <womba...@yahoo.com.au>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> If you had read and understood the offer i.e.
>>>>> You get two OS - Vista and WinXP CDs.
>>>>
>>>> The point is that most of us don't want Vista, so we're effectively
>>>> paying an extra $100 to get XP.
>>>
>>> "...most of us..."?
>>>
>>> I've seen less than 10-15 posters in here wanting or threating to go
>>> back to XP.
>>> Hardly qualifies as "most of us".
>>>
>> "Most of us" is infinitely beyond the limits of this little newsgroup
>> server. This newsgroup absolutely doesn't qualify as "most of us"
>> either. Maybe you should read a few tech articles if you need to be
>> educated on who isn't moving to Vista.
>
> "...who isn't moving to Vista"?
> Sorry, but that isn't the same as paying $100 to downgrade.
>
You're right. Because MS still counts those as Vista users even though
they've moved back to XP. That "most of us" keeps growing smaller.
This was my statement, not yours:
> And you're cross-posting to an XP group, so in here that IS "most of us".
>
> I answered a cross-post. I didn't originate it.
Don't talk about "most of us (Vista users)" in an XP group, because the
"most of us" here are XP.
Not Even Me
news:ebRpGZWK...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
Ditto!
And if the manufacturer of the goods you sell says...use Vista at your own
risk, we won't ptovide support for problems with out software on Vista
machines...
you stick with XP. Not just because it is better...but because you need to
for legitimate business purposes.
nemo
So if the laptop I bought came with a Home version, what are my
options? Unfortunately most PCs sold in the US, and certainly nearly
*ALL* laptops, come with a choice of exactly one version of the OS.
Is there a path to put XP on my machine? I am using it for design
work and a fair percentage of the software I run is very cranky under
Vista or some of it won't even install. So I may have to shell out
thousands of dollars more to get new versions of applications... if
they are even available for Vista.
Alias
Dell has laptops with XP.
Alias
Bob I
nemo wrote:
The only issue I see is that Microsoft didn't replace XP soon enough. Up
until Vista, they were releasing operating systems every 2-3 years. XP
just has a lot more history behind it, and people tend to have very
short memories.
nemo
> nemo wrote:
>
> > So if the laptop I bought came with a Home version, what are my
> > options? Unfortunately most PCs sold in the US, and certainly nearly
> > *ALL* laptops, come with a choice of exactly one version of the OS.
> > Is there a path to put XP on my machine? I am using it for design
> > work and a fair percentage of the software I run is very cranky under
> > Vista or some of it won't even install. So I may have to shell out
> > thousands of dollars more to get new versions of applications... if
> > they are even available for Vista.
>
> The only issue I see is that Microsoft didn't replace XP soon enough. Up
> until Vista, they were releasing operating systems every 2-3 years. XP
> just has a lot more history behind it, and people tend to have very
> short memories.
What are you talking about? Were you replying to someone else? Until
now I have been running Win2k, so don't say my memory is short. I
didn't convert to XP because it offered little (common theme with MS
updates) and added hassles (another common theme).
Do I misunderstand your point?
John John (MVP)
Downgrade rights are not extended to the Home versions, you should ask
the laptop vendor if there are XP drivers for the machine, if they
support installing XP on the machine you will then have to find an XP
copy out there somewhere.
> Unfortunately most PCs sold in the US, and certainly nearly
> *ALL* laptops, come with a choice of exactly one version of the OS.
You're assertion that *ALL* laptops come with only a choice of Vista
Home is certainly at odds with my experience. Laptops are more
frequently purchased for business or work purposes and the the frequent
need to join them to domains has always and still makes business
versions of Windows the preferred operating system for these machines.
If you can't find laptops being offered with Vista Business you aren't
looking too hard or you are looking at the wrong places!
John
xfile
> short memories.
I for one don't have short memory, but I tend to think that going through
the same routine for every few years is rather foolish.
It means we haven't learned anything from the past and no "progress".
The best talents prevent mistakes, the middle ones fix it once for all, and
the worst repeats with pride.
"Bob I" <bir...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:exsuayg...@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
Bob I
xfile wrote:
>>XP just has a lot more history behind it, and people tend to have very
>>short memories.
>
>
> I for one don't have short memory, but I tend to think that going through
> the same routine for every few years is rather foolish.
>
> It means we haven't learned anything from the past and no "progress".
>
> The best talents prevent mistakes, the middle ones fix it once for all, and
> the worst repeats with pride.
>
Sorry, but stuff gets replaced with new models all the time. You can't
have missed that simple fact of life.
xfile
> have missed that simple fact of life.
Meaning it has to be broken when it gets replaced with new models? Meaning
what we have learned from mistakes cannot apply to the new models?
Which also means you are fine with every new car you purchased with same oil
leak problem as long as its a new model with new paint?
"Bob I" <bir...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:OAjr4llK...@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
Frank
> On Thu, 9 Oct 2008 15:39:01 -0700, "xfile" <cou...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Meaning it has to be broken when it gets replaced with new models? Meaning
>>what we have learned from mistakes cannot apply to the new models?
>>
>>Which also means you are fine with every new car you purchased with same oil
>>leak problem as long as its a new model with new paint?
>
>
> Exactly. The problem with MS is that instead of REFINING the OS
> through continuous version upgrades, the REPLACE the OS with millions
> of lines of completely new code. The reasons for all the bugs and
> incompatibility are obvious. IN the days of yore, mid range
> manufacturers revised OS's time and time again with new releases - but
> they were refinements, not wholesale replacements.
>
> MS continues to give us "new" OS's that have little practical
> advantage over previous OS's. The only reason they sell at all is
> because they strong arm manufacturers into selling only the latest and
> then eliminate support for older versions.
"Bullshit bob" rides again!
Bob I
xfile wrote:
>>Sorry, but stuff gets replaced with new models all the time. You can't
>>have missed that simple fact of life.
>
>
> Meaning it has to be broken when it gets replaced with new models? Meaning
> what we have learned from mistakes cannot apply to the new models?
>
> Which also means you are fine with every new car you purchased with same oil
> leak problem as long as its a new model with new paint?
>
Huh? New models always have different features. Broken verses how you
think it should work? And things are improved from one to the next. On
the otherhand, there are some inherent features that will carry over
from one model to the next. Oil leak? Well the vertical split motorcycle
engine case comes to mind.
xfile
> Huh? New models always have different features.
Right and that's good. Anything I said suggested you that I am against it?
>Broken verses how you think it should work?
No, I am a little bit of mature and knowledgeable than you suspected.
Broken as it doesn't work as expected and please do not tell me that you
haven't found any from this newsgroup (even you might be one of those
recognize this is the ONLY support portal in the world) and that MS issued
SP1 is for fun.
>And things are improved from one to the next.
In theory, it is but we are discussing actual performance results documented
throughout the past 20+ years.
>On the otherhand, there are some inherent features that will carry over
>from one model to the next.
Right and that's good. Anything I said suggested you that I am against it?
>Oil leak? Well the vertical split motorcycle engine case comes to mind.
Sorry, it could be my reading comprehension problem but I don't know what
are you talking about.
"Bob I" <bir...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:u5bx$mtKJH...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
nemo
I didn't say *all* laptops are only available with the Home version, I
said nearly all laptops are available with only *one* version. The
machine I bought only came with the Home version. Other machines only
come with the Business version. I did find that Dell offers a
selection of OS, but that is because they custom build machines (with
a corresponding wait). When buying retail, I did not see more than
one choice of OS on any given machine and to get the Business Vista I
would have had to pay some $300 or $400 more. Yes, I guess I had a
choice, but how was I to know that Vista worked so badly and that I
would not be able to use my existing apps that have run on the last
three versions of Windows, NT, 2000 and XP? Is there some reason that
MS needs to break software?
Terry R.
out on the keyboard:
>
> I didn't say *all* laptops are only available with the Home version, I
> said nearly all laptops are available with only *one* version. The
> machine I bought only came with the Home version. Other machines only
> come with the Business version. I did find that Dell offers a
> selection of OS, but that is because they custom build machines (with
> a corresponding wait). When buying retail, I did not see more than
> one choice of OS on any given machine and to get the Business Vista I
> would have had to pay some $300 or $400 more. Yes, I guess I had a
> choice, but how was I to know that Vista worked so badly and that I
> would not be able to use my existing apps that have run on the last
> three versions of Windows, NT, 2000 and XP? Is there some reason that
> MS needs to break software?
Hi Nemo,
Because without the constant upgrade cycle, they wouldn't be in business.
They don't like users like you and me, who use it up, wear it out, make
due, or do without.
I was perfectly happy using W2K (and still have a partition of it). I
only installed XP (at the time) so I could advise clients who were
moving from Win9x. I now use it more than any other OS I have
installed, but have found no reason to install Vista. The one or two
clients that purchased a new computer with it pre-installed hasn't been
any reason to cause me to put it on any workstations here.
Bob I
just as the transition from a DOS based operating system to NT system
prevented software that directly accessed hardware from working, so does
the security changes in Vista prevent those software from accessing the
the kernel. MS didn't break the software, it merely closed the security
holes. That your software ceases to work should be taken up with the
software provider tech support.
nemo
How do you know that without even knowing what the software is???
Frank
> On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:00:41 -0500, Bob I <bir...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>just as the transition from a DOS based operating system to NT system
>>prevented software that directly accessed hardware from working, so does
>>the security changes in Vista prevent those software from accessing the
>>the kernel. MS didn't break the software, it merely closed the security
>>holes. That your software ceases to work should be taken up with the
>>software provider tech support.
>
>
> It's not "accessing the kernel" issues that cause many of the
> problems. The issue is outright incompatibility in other parts of the
> OS - often with MS's own application software. If developers were so
> "wrong" to do what they did then one has to wonder why MS's own
> software labs were doing many of the same things. The bottom line is
> that they just didn't care about compatibility. In addition, instead
> of building a secure OS, they put band aids on an old OS architecture
> that has serious problems. Not to mention, they did break many other
> things that use to work well, like networking.
>
> There's a reason that most every large corporation forced their users
> to upgrade to 95, then NT, then win2K, then XP - and that most of them
> have specifically chosen NOT to upgrade to Vista. See if you can
> figure out the why.
>
>
>
>
>
>
"Bullshit bob" rides again!
Frank
If you're so smart why is it that you can't seem to get your Vista
install to run properly, huh?
Oh, not that bullshit excuse again..."it's MS's fault"!