HEIC on XP

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Mayayana

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Jul 16, 2022, 9:35:27 AMJul 16
to
Just tried several things. So far, "UltraFileOpener" from
Compuclever is the only thing that works. The program
is as dumb as the name. It tells me I need to buy it to
get all functionality, but doesn't explain. HEIC files are
opened but in a window infested with ads and prompts.

Why has it become so hard to just find out what a
program does, where it will run, and what the terms are?

Does anyone know a better, simple converter/viewer for
HEIC? I don't want online converters. Just a simple program,
or a library I can use to make my own converter.


Mayayana

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Jul 16, 2022, 9:50:40 AMJul 16
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I guess I'm getting old. This CompuClever is one of the sleaziest
programs I've come across. Not only is the main window
mainly a salespitch but it installed a service and tried to send
out spyware. When I killed the process (with the program closed)
it was restarted! In other words, this thing tries to run automatically
as a service, all the time, calling home without asking.


Paul

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Jul 16, 2022, 11:29:09 AMJul 16
to
A lot of the converters might key off a project like this.
That includes the slimy programs that only seek to annoy.

https://github.com/strukturag/libheif/tree/master/examples

heif_convert.cc

That builds with CMAKE and I can hear you groaning.

*******

This is probably as close to a ready-made binary as I can find.
Someone has made a Cygwin version, which may not be the
above library, but is quite likely to be it.

https://cygwin.com/packages/summary/libheif-tool.html

You have to set up a Cygwin tree, and then tick that
as a project to be downloaded.

Out of that, you'll need the Cygwin EXE and the two DLLs,
and then you could dispense with Cygwin.

That's how I got my "disktype.exe" for Windows, by using
Cygwin to get it. There is no native port of disktype, but
the Cygwin one is perfectly functional, a "good enough" way to
get it. The namespace for disks is not the same in Cygwin,
so you use /dev/sda for the first hard drive in Disk Management.
No groaning, as the namespace Windows uses isn't exactly pleasant
(lots more typing).

*******

I tried Imagemagick, but it is no longer a WinXP thing
as you would expect. And an older version will not have
heard of libheif.

*******

I think you realize the combination of "squeaky new thing"
and "crusty olde OS" do not mix. And you are on the boundaries
of the impossible, to "get it for free" (zero "effort").
You might have to make an effort to get the capability.

Paul

Mayayana

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Jul 16, 2022, 12:04:45 PMJul 16
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"Paul" <nos...@needed.invalid> wrote

| A lot of the converters might key off a project like this.
| That includes the slimy programs that only seek to annoy.
|
| https://github.com/strukturag/libheif/tree/master/examples
|
| heif_convert.cc
|
| That builds with CMAKE and I can hear you groaning.
|

:) I wouldn't mind except that it's always so hard to find docs,
dependencies, etc. It's usually hard to figure out, even in a
general way, what something will do. Will I need a special make
of VC++ to compile? Can it even compile in VC++? Will it
provide STDCALL functions or only CDECL? Since I have limited
experience with C++, it's a lot of work, not knowing whether
I'll even end up with something I can use.

Libheif seems to be typical. The readme contains a
few breezy samples. ("See? Easy as pie!")


| I tried Imagemagick, but it is no longer a WinXP thing
| as you would expect. And an older version will not have
| heard of libheif.
|

Yes. A lot of things can deal with the format, just not on
XP. But if I found a library I could handle in VB6 I'd be happy to
write code to wrap it.


Mayayana

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Jul 16, 2022, 2:00:15 PMJul 16
to
I actually found something here:

https://github.com/mcychan/libheif/releases

Requires VC++ 14 runtime. Check. But when I load
it in Depends, kernel32 shows several unresolved
functions that the two dependency DLLs are calling.
For example, InitializeConditionVariable, which seems to
require at least Vista.


VanguardLH

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Jul 16, 2022, 2:54:23 PMJul 16
to
https://backlightblog.com/iphone-heic-to-jpg

HEIC is an Apple file format generated under iOS, but only starting with
iOS 11 released September 2019, so it's relatively new. Obviously this
was long after Windows XP got released (2009), and long after Windows XP
was discontinued (2014)

If you are generating the .heic files, doesn't your iOS device provide
for a means to save or convert to .jp[e]g?

The HIEF Image Extensions codec is available for Windows 10 (search for
"HEVC video extensions" in the MS Store, $0.99 despite MS is the
author), but you're asking for support on Windows XP. HEIC is defined
in Part 12 in the MPEG-H media suite, ISO/IEC 23008-12. It is a
modified MP4 container using the HEVC codec.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Video_Coding

HVEC and AVC have royalties, so I'm not sure you'll find a free
viewer/converter. Probably why Microsoft's codec distro has a fee.
From some searching, yes, you can get the HEVC video extension codec,
but only for Windows 10. Seems you need the HEVC codec for the HEIF
image format, too.

In hunting around for a converter, I found:

https://imazing.com/converter

It isn't called UltraFileOpener (never hear of it, but before today I
also never heard of iMazing). It isn't free, and I wouldn't consider it
cheap ($45). Also found:

https://codecguide.com/media_foundation_codecs.htm

It mentions the $1 codec from Microsoft that I already mentioned, but is
only for Windows 10+. This article states, "The free version only works
on systems that have a graphics card (GPU) that is capable of hardware
accelerated decoding of HEVC video." I've never been hit with trying to
open HEIC or AVC files, so I've never bothered to find out which GPUs
are capabile of decoding HEVC. This web page doesn't mention which
versions of Windows are required at a minimum for the free codecs. I
didn't bother to install the free HEVC codec (nor get the $1 app from
MS), so I also didn't bother to find free HEVC sample files to test
after installing the HEVC codecs. The free codec downloads are APPX
files, so they look to be to install UWP apps to get the codecs, and
that means Windows 8, at a minimum.

https://www.majorgeeks.com/content/page/hevc_heic.html

That mentions "For a multimedia player with the codecs built-in, try the
freeware VLC Media Player." I remember seeing a discussion in the VLC
forums about HEVC/HEIF about a year ago asking to have the codecs added
to VLC. I don't see HEVC, HEIF, AVC, or other related codecs listed at
https://wiki.videolan.org/VLC_Features_Formats/, but then HEVC is a
codec defined with an MP4 container, so you could try VLC to see if it
works.

https://www.videolan.org/developers/x265.html

That mentions "x265 is a free software library and application for
encoding video streams into the H.265/MPEG-H HEVC compression format,
and is released under the terms of the GNU GPL." So, maybe the VLC
media player will work for you. x265 is the software codec for High
Efficiency Video Coding (HEVC/H.265).

VLC runs on Windows XP SP3 to Windows 11; however, just because the
program supports Windows XP does not mean it includes the H.265 codec
you need for HEVC/AVC/HEIF. Older versions of VLC may have lesser codec
support.

Mayayana

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Jul 16, 2022, 5:35:51 PMJul 16
to
"VanguardLH" <V...@nguard.LH> wrote

|
| https://backlightblog.com/iphone-heic-to-jpg
|
| HEIC is an Apple file format generated under iOS, but only starting with
| iOS 11 released September 2019, so it's relatively new. Obviously this
| was long after Windows XP got released (2009), and long after Windows XP
| was discontinued (2014)
|

I know all this, thanks. What I'm hoping to find is a program
of DLL that does the job on XP. I have a possibility, of a libheif
compile that's XP-compatible. It also uses CDECL calls and I'd
need to adapt from C++. That might all be doable, but I don't
want to put the work into it unless I'm pretty sure that I can
get it to work and that it will work on XP.

The format is not a problem. It's just math. The problem is
that most of the people writing this stuff don't care about
backward compatibility. They don't have to use API functions
that are not on XP, or a Visual Studio version that doesn't
support pre-7, but they just don't care. In many cases
they really don't care about Windows. They just like to tinker
with low-level code.

The other problem with that is that there are seldom docs.
There might be a few sample snippets and an .h file. That's
typically pretty much it.


VanguardLH

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Jul 16, 2022, 7:17:42 PMJul 16
to
I take it you tried VLC on Windows XP, but it didn't included the
HEVC/HEIF codecs on the old OS.

Got a sample .heic file that I could try? I could test using VLC, but
that would be under Windows 10 Home x64. If VLC couldn't support the
file on Win10, it won't under WinXP. However, if it does work on Win10,
it might work back on WinXP.

Paul

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Jul 16, 2022, 8:01:39 PMJul 16
to
On 7/16/2022 7:17 PM, VanguardLH wrote:

>
> Got a sample .heic file that I could try? I could test using VLC, but
> that would be under Windows 10 Home x64. If VLC couldn't support the
> file on Win10, it won't under WinXP. However, if it does work on Win10,
> it might work back on WinXP.

The one in my collection is from here. On one of the tools I tried,
only the one image came out of it, and no message indicated there
were two frames. Some samples have as many as 10-20 frames (as if
snipped from a video). It really is a stupid/crazyass format.

https://github.com/strukturag/libheif/tree/master/examples

example.avif add AVIF example image <=== cannot open so far

Size: 113,604 bytes (110 KiB)
SHA1: 59D7ED8581E9AAFBC11E3DEF77AFAB54C246CEB3

example.heic Add example image from c492381

Size: 718114 bytes (701 KiB) <=== there are *two* images
SHA1: C1E69214F692DBF06A40A8D1AFD2CF7D12831DDB in here

It's the mystery meat of teh Internets.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/k5vsfTP9/example-heic.gif

When you get it open, examine the image quality...

Paul

VanguardLH

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Jul 16, 2022, 8:56:26 PMJul 16
to
I suspect the lower image quality of HEIF is due to its higher
compression level. The claim is that HEIF is 25% to 50% smaller than
JPEG. Well, in apps that let me specify the compression level for JPEG,
image quality suffers a lot when compression is below 70% original size.
More compression means more crappy quality.

There was an example.heif file at the github site. Couldn't see in in
VLC, but if it has only 2 frames then the video would be looping so fast
that it probably won't display anything to see. There was an
example.avif which display okay, but in the web browser (Firefox), by
default. When I instead downloaded the .avif file, VLC wouldn't display
it.

I also found https://www.copytrans.net/copytransheic/ for adding HVEC
support (needed for HEIF). It's free for personal use. Never tried it.
I might try it as it adds context menu entries to File Explorer to
convert HEIC to JPEG, and lets File Explorer preview HEIC image files.
However, it mentions File Explorer, and the OP would be using Windows
Explorer under Windows XP. It's home page mentions "To view HEIC photos
on Windows 10 and 11", so maybe there is something more in Windows 10/11
as ancilliary support needed for HEVC beyond just the codec itself.

https://www.howtogeek.com/345504/how-to-open-heic-files-on-windows-or-convert-them-to-jpeg/

That mentions "so [CopyTrans HEIC] is particularly useful on Windows 7
and older versions of Windows 10." No mention of Windows XP. I'm
starting to think the "codec" (just some coding/decoding code) requires
some level of .NET Framework that isn't available in Windows XP.

https://www.copytrans.net/copytransheic/

At the bottom of the page, it only lists support for Windows 7, 8.1, 10,
and 11. Sure seems there is some dependency on the OS version which
precludes the OP from conjuring a workaround on Windows XP.

Mayayana

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Jul 16, 2022, 9:49:05 PMJul 16
to
"VanguardLH" <V...@nguard.LH> wrote

| https://www.copytrans.net/copytransheic/
|
| At the bottom of the page, it only lists support for Windows 7, 8.1, 10,
| and 11. Sure seems there is some dependency on the OS version which
| precludes the OP from conjuring a workaround on Windows XP.


That's one of the ones that doesn't work on XP. VLC
doesn't ecognize it at all. There may be confusion due to
options. Apparently it's a container format that an
include video or multiple images. But what I'm looking for
is only to display a single image that things like iPhones
are saving from the camera. People have been sending
me these photos and I don't want to have to ask them
to change the default format.

There are lots of things that will work on newer systems.
I think libheif will work if I have a slightly older compile. But
then I'd still have to figure out how to adapt VB code to
it, in the abscence of actual docs.


Mayayana

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Jul 16, 2022, 9:52:15 PMJul 16
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"Paul" <nos...@needed.invalid> wrote

| were two frames. Some samples have as many as 10-20 frames (as if
| snipped from a video). It really is a stupid/crazyass format.
|

If I've got the story straight, the format specs require
that versions be stored to accommodate the possibility
that photo orientation was wrong or some such... So that
people don't have to rotate the image. It seems to be basically
a format for sending photos between iPhones. Adaptable,
highly compressed, quality not important.


Paul

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Jul 16, 2022, 10:44:27 PMJul 16
to
What I'm seeing, is a "directionality" to the distortions
in the image. That's why I wanted people to look at the
image quality, because the artifacts I'm seeing are weird.
And not something you would expect from macroblocks (which
might be the same vertically as horizontally, in terms
of "having issues"). Since you're the guy with the
endless supply of samples of this format, you can tell
us whether average samples are like that or not.

Lots of formats use discrete cosine transform (a frequency
domain technique) to throw away "sharpness" and give "compression".
And when formats like that break, you see "macroblocks", you
see the tiles that make up the image.

I've run into this issue a couple of times in recent experience.
If I try to work with RED Cinema camera samples, the software
output of the tools looks *dreadful*. Which presumably would be
"bad marketing" for the company, Obviously the problem
must be "just my machine", as how could anyone stand that,
after spending thousands on a camera ?

And here we have another new format, and it does not look
right on my machine. And I look at that and say the same
thing. "Must be my machine", because how could anyone else
do a conversion like that and be happy with the output ?

It would be the same, with listening to a CD tune, then
someone tells me how wonderful their MP3 copy at 64Kilobits/sec
sounds. Well, it sounds like an MP3.

Paul

VanguardLH

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Jul 17, 2022, 2:27:39 AMJul 17
to
Mayayana <maya...@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> libheif

At the Github site for libheif:

https://github.com/strukturag/libheif

there was a hyperlink to:

https://www.libde265.org/

Alas, the download points to:

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/h265-hevc-player/dambgipgbnhmnkdolkljibpcbocimnpd

which is strucktur's add-on to the Chrome web browser. Since MS Edge-C
accepts Chrome add-ons, the add-on could be used in MS Edge-C, too. I
tried an example file, and it displayed in Firefox without an add-on but
on Windows 10. Well, the add-on won't help you, either, since MS Edge-C
isn't available back in Windows XP. I don't know if older versions of
Firefox that ran on Windows XP have the x.265 codec.

The libde265.org site has codec downloads to embed in VLC. There's
mention of VLC 2.1, and pointer to
https://github.com/strukturag/vlc-2.1/releases/tag/2.1.4-libde265-4. I
looked at https://www.videolan.org/vlc/releases/, but couldn't see
mention what versions of Windows are supported by which versions of VLC.
None of the releases have a datestamp. Oooh, it's a secret. From
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VLC_media_player#Release_history, VLC 2.1
was released back in 2013, so maybe VLC should play your HEIF files, but
it seems dependent on the container used.

My recollection of VLC is that it uses its own private codec store
instead of relying on pointers in the registry to find them; that is,
VLC uses its private codec store instead of the global codecs available
to the OS and apps using the registry pointers. Instead of codecs,
looks like VLC uses plug-ins to supply the code that the codecs would
provide. I go to Tools -> Plugins and Extensions, select the Plugins
tab, and search on "hevc" to see there are 3 matching entries.

However, from further reading, it looks like the viewer has to support
the container in which the HEVC encoded content resides. The libde265
add-on mentions "Matroska video files with common audio codecs like MP3,
AAC, and AC3". Their add-on for Chrome mentions only a few containers
(.mkv). https://www.libde265.org/downloads-videos/ has some example
videos. Alas, I picked the Tears of Steel video which is 92MB in size.
Not huge, but their server is very slow. I gave up waiting for it.
Instead I picked the Spreed - The Meeting at 2MB. VLC played that okay.
It played a .mkv video file that supposedly used HEVC to compress it.

VideoLAN VLC is about playing videos, so that's why the focus above was
on HEVC video content. For viewing HEIF image files, you need the HEIF
codec (which seems to require the HEVC codec), and most articles lead me
to Windows 7 as the minimum.

I see Adobe Lightroom mentioned several times to view, and even edit,
HEIC files. It is subscriptionware on Windows, but its mobile app is
free. However, mobile apps tend to be crippled versions of their
desktop cousins, so no idea if mobile Adobe Lightroom will let you
convert HEIC to JPEG.

https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-cc/kb/heic-files-support.html

While you're striving for offline conversion on your Windows desktop,
maybe you have a smartphone where you could run Adobe Lightroom to see
if it can view HEIC files.

Android:
https://play.google.com/store/search?q=adobe%20lightroom&c=apps

iOS 11+:
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/lightroom-photo-video-editor/id878783582

I suspect the mobile apps for Lightroom use Adobe's cloud-based service.
WHen I hunt around for Lightroom for Windows, I only support going back
to Windows Vista, and a $9.99/month subscription to their cloud service
(https://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop-lightroom/compare-plans.html).
I suspect the mobile-based Lightroom apps, to be free, have a much
smaller [starter] cloud quota, something like OneDrive or Google Drive
giving you a starter quota, and hoping you'll eventually need to buy
more cloud space. You could get your friend's HEIC photos to your
smartphone, and use the free mobile Lightroom app to convert them.

Seems a lot easier to ask your friends to send you JPEG images instead.
Tell them you're not an Apple user, so you need their images in a format
that other platforms will support without incurring expense or massive
workarounds. Android has the greatest OS market share, then Windows,
and thirdly iOS. See:

https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share

Some Apple users don't give a gnat's fart about the non-Apple world: to
them, it's Apple's way, or no way. They are interred in the Apple
realm, and don't care what is outside. I have an Apple iPad (non-Pro),
and it is my least desired OS platform.

Here's an idea: have the Apple users send you their HEIC photos to your
iCloud account. They're free. Instead of using my own e-mail address,
I got an iCloud e-mail account (and used that to create an Apple ID
account). How are the Apple users sending you their HEIC photos, or any
of their photos? Instead of e-mailing them as attachments, have them
send their pic files to your iCloud account. They already have an
iCloud account.

https://support.apple.com/guide/icloud/share-photos-and-videos-mm93a9b98683/icloud

After logging into your iCloud account, open the Photos app. Select the
image(s) you want to download. Click and hold the download icon, and
click "Most Compatible" in the pop up notification. You'll end up
downloading HEIC images from your iCloud account as JPEGs to your
Windows computer.

For the Apple user, they could double-click the photo they want to send
you (they're going to have to select it somehow to send to you). They
use File -> Export, and choose JPEG. If you keep bouncing their e-mails
with .heic attachments because you have no way to view their .heic
files, and because they have an impetus to get you that photo (else they
wouldn't have bothered sending it to you), seems a simple method for
them to get their precious photos to you in a more compatible format.

https://www.10news.com/convert-iphone-heic-photos-jpegs

Seems that indicates the files are .heic in their photo library, but get
converted when they share -> copy to a folder shown in the Files app.
We've probably already wasted more time that it would take for your
senders to send you JPEGs instead of HEIFs.

Mayayana

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Jul 17, 2022, 7:55:19 AMJul 17
to
"VanguardLH" <V...@nguard.LH> wrote

| While you're striving for offline conversion on your Windows desktop,
| maybe you have a smartphone where you could run Adobe Lightroom to see
| if it can view HEIC files.
|

| Here's an idea: have the Apple users send you their HEIC photos to your
| iCloud account.

?? I feel like I'm watching Invasion of the Body Snatchers, V.
Dependable, geeky, old Vanguard, talking about getting Apple
shackles or finding a cellphone to rent Adobe crap... just so that
I can read a file.

This is very simple: On XP I want to view or convert HEIC image
files from iPhones in the simplest way possible. An older libheif with
some good sample code might do it. A good, lightweight, free
program would be nice.

Th CompuClever Ultimate File Opener seems to work... at least
for now. Like so many programs these days, you don't find out
about the free version limitations until you get hit with them.

The UFO people seem to have compiled their own libheif that
works on XP. So there may be other versions around. Oddly,
I could find no indication in either the program files or on their
website where they give credit for all the OSS they're using
in their program.


Mayayana

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Jul 17, 2022, 8:22:36 AMJul 17
to
"Paul" <nos...@needed.invalid> wrote

| What I'm seeing, is a "directionality" to the distortions
| in the image. That's why I wanted people to look at the
| image quality, because the artifacts I'm seeing are weird.
| And not something you would expect from macroblocks (which
| might be the same vertically as horizontally, in terms
| of "having issues"). Since you're the guy with the
| endless supply of samples of this format, you can tell
| us whether average samples are like that or not.
|

:) I have 2 photos of a cellar wall. Not much to go on for
checking quality. I had also got some HEIFs awhile back
but then I forgot that I'd looked into it at that time and don't
still have them. To be honest, I really don't care very much
about quality because I'm assuming this is a crap format for
sending smaller pictures between iPhones, and a passive
aggressive way for Apple to once again say, "Well, maybe you
should have bought an iPhone."

JPG is already poor quality, in most cases. And this format
apparently manages to drop a lot more data. So I just want to
be able to see it amd maybe convert it to something usable.

I see what you mean, though. I'm looking at the image that
looks like a Dutch or French canal. There's gross distortion from some
kind of sharpening operation. There's flat color. And the lines of
the buildings are so crooked that it looks like one of Frank Gehry's
"masterpieces". I wouldn't have noticed if you hadn't pointed
it out, but I see rows of windows and horizontal trim boards
that are crooked or curved. The whole image is severely degraded.
On the 4th full building from the right, with the pale green shutters,
it looks like the ground is erupting, pushing the building up in the
middle. The one to its left is the opposite, collapsing in the middle.

As I understand it there's at least one quality option when saving
to HEIC, but I assume this sample is meant to be at
least average quality. I wonder whether there's some kind of
abstraction involved, where the algorithm "guesses" how to drop
most of the data. And maybe the tree shadows fooled it into
rendering crooked houses?


Paul

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Jul 17, 2022, 1:43:02 PMJul 17
to
First I tried to compile the materials under MINGW32. I got part way
along (got CMAKE .msi to work in MINGW MSYS), but got stuck on a Mutex
error that teh Internets solutions could not fix. Mostly the first
part of the command passes ENV information, and there are better ways
to do that for permanent usage. (Following as one line, from MSYS shell window)
The posix threads thing, was the last desperate attempt to make it work (fails).

CXXFLAGS=-posix CMAKE_C_COMPILER=/mingw/bin/gcc.exe CMAKE_CXX_COMPILER=/mingw/bin/g++.exe
"C:\Program Files (x86)\CMake\bin\cmake.exe" .. -G "MSYS Makefiles"

The working bit of the command is this much.

cd project-master-dir
mkdir build
cd build
cmake.exe" .. -G "MSYS Makefiles" <=== copies source into build dir, makes makefiles
The MSYS flavor, uses "sh" instead of "cmd.exe".
If you allow it to use cmd.exe, it stops dead in water.
make <=== MinGW Compiler starts running

I'll leave that as a bread crumb for future generations or something.
I also did a build in Linux, and it failed on the "strict warnings equals error"
setting, and I could not be assed to find a setting to turn that off.
I figured the LInux would work, and I used the Linux run as a "litmus
test" of the further pain I would experience in MinGW if I continued.
I don't know if enough sanitizing has gone into that product,
to prevent stack smashing. There is a bunch of asserts it was
tripping over, which looked like an attempt to stop shenanigans.

*******

The good news is, Cygwin has it.

Near the bottom of the page, where it says "You have been warned"...

https://cygwin.com/

https://cygwin.com/setup-x86.exe (this is an older Cygwin install)

Windows 11 (where I do my testing) issued a reputational dialog, which
I had to bypass and continue the install, and this created

C:\cygwin
C:\cygwin\home\bullwinkle

I put my example.heic in my home directory.

And it was this easy. Only needed to flip three settings to "Keep"
to get the package. The installer does a "basic" install, plus it
adds the three packages.

And the result looks like this. With suitable amounts of detail removal :-)

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/BZd3kBRF/cygwin-heif-convert.gif

The only other parameter the command takes, is a quality option,
which I left at default for the first test.

The sixty four dollar question, is whether the above setup-x86.exe
is WinXP ready. That, I do not know.

But at least I can pass that much along. I looked in Procmon while
that ran, and it looks like it's going to be a "chore" to make
a portable version (one that does not depend on a Cygwin terminal).

Paul

Mayayana

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Jul 17, 2022, 2:52:16 PMJul 17
to
"Paul" <nos...@needed.invalid> wrote

| The good news is, Cygwin has it.

I'm not sure I follow this. What wa MINGW? So you ended up
getting a Linux command line utility heif-convert to work under
cygwin? I guess that's sort of good. (Is it? :) They're no longer
supporting XP with cygwin. I'm still holding out for an XP compile
of libheif and enough docs to code to it. I'm surprised that
so few sites have old versions anymore. It used to be more
standard to be able to download older versions of things.


Paul

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Jul 17, 2022, 8:05:10 PMJul 17
to
Developers cannot avoid using constructs in code, that
cause "indigestion" for toolsets. I don't think these people
are shills, being paid to break WinXP compatibility, but
it does make you wonder sometimes.

MinGW32 does native win32 executables. And while MinGW32 has
pthreads, for some reason the Mutex is broken in g++ (and that's
around four releases of g++ ago). MinGW32 is what I use for quick
and dirty C code (Visual Studio has the nuisance of .proj).

When MinGW32 didn't work out, I switched to Cygwin for a look,
and was surprised to find the package in there. Not every package
is ported to Cygwin, because it's work. It's not a free lunch
like some other paths might be.

I don't know what versions of Cygwin work in WinXP, and I was
curious just to see if the package was there.

One of my problems is, the WinXP machine broke, so I've lost
my native WinXP setup, and have to use VMs instead.

Paul

Mayayana

unread,
Jul 17, 2022, 8:49:16 PMJul 17
to
"Paul" <nos...@needed.invalid> wrote

| Developers cannot avoid using constructs in code, that
| cause "indigestion" for toolsets. I don't think these people
| are shills, being paid to break WinXP compatibility, but
| it does make you wonder sometimes.
|

I don't suspect anything malicious. It's just that many
people don't care or don't know. They might usse the latest
.Net even though they don't need to. Things like that. When
I checked Depends there were only a handfyl of kernel32
calls that are post-XP. But that's enough to break it. Someone
just couldn't be bothered to care.

I remember many years ago I was trying to run a program.
I think it was using FlashWindowEx to flash the icon in the taskbar
or some such. That broke the program in either Win95 or 98.
I don't remember which. Completely unnecessary, but clearly the
developer was oblivious about backward support. It's similar
in many cases with XP. They don't need to use the latest of
everything, but many do. Then it breaks.


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