Installing New Windows Defender Updates

[Phil Rabichow]

I have WinXP SP-2. When I have to install new updates that require a
reboot, such as Windows Defender, I always have to shut down the computer to
install them. i.e. when I press Alt+F4, my choices Standby, Restart,
Shutdown...but only Shutdown gives me the option to install updates.

Is there a way to change the behavior so that I can simply reboot (Restart)
to install the updates.
--
Thank you in advance.

Phil

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

Are you logged-in /as/ the Administrator when this happens?

If you select Shutdown then reboot, are you finding that the updates have
not installed?

References:

Automatic Updates in WinXP
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/downloads/windowsupdate/learn/windowsxp.mspx

How to configure and use Automatic Updates in WinXP:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/306525
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Client - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

[Phil Rabichow]

Hi Robear:
Thanks for responding. Yes, I have only 1 user account with administrator
privileges. I can install updates by choosing Shutdown & then starting up after
the computer shuts off. What I'm wondering is why I can't just reboot without
shutting down completely & still install updates.

In other words, I can install by choosing Start/Turn off computer & then choosing
"turn off" with the additional choice of installing. I would like to just choose
"restart", so I can walk away & install updates. Currently, I have to stick
around until the computer turns off & then manually start again. I'd like to
change that behavior. Is that possible? Does everyone have to shut down
completely to install udpates?
--
Thanks again,

Phil

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

I assume you're running WinXP Pro, not WinXP Home.

Logged-in as the Administrator is not the same thing as being logged-in to a
User Account with Admin privileges, Phil. See the links in my previous
reply.

[I handled your WinXP General thread about .NET Framework last week.]
--
~PA Bear

Phil Rabichow wrote:
> Hi Robear:
> Thanks for responding. Yes, I have only 1 user account with administrator
> privileges. I can install updates by choosing Shutdown & then starting up
> after the computer shuts off. What I'm wondering is why I can't just
> reboot without shutting down completely & still install updates.
>
> In other words, I can install by choosing Start/Turn off computer & then
> choosing "turn off" with the additional choice of installing. I would
> like
> to just choose "restart", so I can walk away & install updates.
> Currently,
> I have to stick around until the computer turns off & then manually start
> again. I'd like to change that behavior. Is that possible? Does
> everyone
> have to shut down completely to install udpates?
>

[Phil Rabichow]

Hi Robear:
Yes, I have WinXP Pro SR-2. I reviewed the links, but they only say how to set
Automatic Updates, which I already have. Maybe I'm being unclear. I can install
updates, it's just that I have to completely shutdown my computer & restart it for
the Windows Defender updates to be installed.

My update setting is "Notify me but don't automatically download or install them."
When available, a yellow shield with an exlamation point sits in my system tray. I
can click it & choose "download" from the dialog box. Then I click it again &
choose "install". Later, to install them, I must go to Alt+F4, then "Turn off", to
install them. They WILL install then. However, I would like to just be able to
choose Alt+F4, then "Restart" to install them...but that doesn't work.

Is that how it works on everyone's machine or is there something wrong with mine?

[Yes, I recall you answering my .NET Framework question. Thank you.]
--
Thanks again,

Phil

"PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote:

[Robert Aldwinckle]

"Phil Rabichow" <z...@zz.com> wrote in message news:49B80915...@zz.com...

> Hi Robear:
> Thanks for responding. Yes, I have only 1 user account with administrator
> privileges. I can install updates by choosing Shutdown & then starting up after
> the computer shuts off.

> What I'm wondering is why I can't just reboot without
> shutting down completely & still install updates.

Because that's the way it works? ; )

Why aren't you installing the updates *before* you
shut down? In some cases where the updates require
restart that would initiate a timed reboot anyway (which
others complain bitterly about because they don't save
their work apparently.)

HTH

Robert Aldwinckle
---

[Phil Rabichow]

Hi Robert:
Thanks for responding, but I'm not sure that I understand what you're saying. I DO
install before I reboot. However, the install requires a reboot. It doesn't happen
automatically. I have to manually reboot. I don't mind that. What I'm trying to
change is shutting off the machine completely & doing a cold reboot. When you say
"Because that's the way it works", that's what I'm trying to find out. Can you install
new Defender updates by doing a warm reboot or do you need to do a cold reboot?
--
Thanks,
Phil

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

What Robert said. If you're seeing the "install updates and then shutdown"
prompt, the updates have already download and the AU icon has appeared in
Notification Area and keeps nagging you to install the updates. Why don't
you Approve the install & install the updates before shutting down or
restarting on your own?

Phil Rabichow wrote:
> Hi Robear:

> Yes, I have WinXP Pro SR-2. I reviewed the links, but they only say how
> to
> set Automatic Updates, which I already have. Maybe I'm being unclear. I
> can install updates, it's just that I have to completely shutdown my
> computer & restart it for the Windows Defender updates to be installed.
>
> My update setting is "Notify me but don't automatically download or
> install
> them." When available, a yellow shield with an exlamation point sits in my
> system tray. I can click it & choose "download" from the dialog box.
> Then
> I click it again & choose "install". Later, to install them, I must go to
> Alt+F4, then "Turn off", to install them. They WILL install then.
> However, I would like to just be able to choose Alt+F4, then "Restart" to
> install them...but that doesn't work.
>
> Is that how it works on everyone's machine or is there something wrong
> with
> mine?
>
> [Yes, I recall you answering my .NET Framework question. Thank you.]
>

[Robert Aldwinckle]

"Phil Rabichow" <z...@zz.com> wrote in message news:49B830AE...@zz.com...

> Hi Robert:
> Thanks for responding, but I'm not sure that I understand what you're saying. I DO
> install before I reboot. However, the install requires a reboot. It doesn't happen
> automatically. I have to manually reboot. I don't mind that.

> What I'm trying to
> change is shutting off the machine completely & doing a cold reboot. When you say
> "Because that's the way it works", that's what I'm trying to find out.

I meant that the AU overlay only applies to the Shut down
case. If you are just doing a reboot because the updates
say Restart required then any kind of reboot is sufficient.

Essentially all you are doing is making sure that modules
being updated are not in use so they can be renamed.
Search for the term PendingFileRenameOperations
for more information.

> Can you install
> new Defender updates by doing a warm reboot or do you need to do a cold reboot?

I'm not on my Vista partition right now but I'm not sure
Defender updates even require a reboot. Are you actually
being asked to do one for that case or just imagining that
it is needed?

In any case if you have installed some updates and just
need a reboot for that, a Restart would be sufficient.
AFAIK you would not need to do a complete power off
and the Shut down button would not have its overlay.

HTH

Robert
---

[Phil Rabichow]

Hi Robear:
But that's not what's happening. I download the updates. Then I DO click install.
The message in the notification area goes away. Later, when I press Alt+F4, I see the
only option to install is to "turn off"; not if I restart.
--
Thanks again. I appreciate your time.

Phil

"PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote:

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

Yes, I understand now...because I saw the same behavior last night! Short
version (I hopse) of a long, involved story:

1. Like most WinXP users, you most likely approved three (3) updates:
KB958690; KB960225; and the Malicious Software Removal Tool (MSRT).

2. One of the detections in the MSRT released on 10 Mar-09 was a
False/Positive which quickly caused a lot of problems for many, many users.
The original MSRT release was then "pulled" from the update servers but it
took a few hours for the revised version to be rereleased to the master
server and then "trickle down" to the other (slave) servers worldwide.

3. Since you'd approved three (3) updates but only two (2) had downloaded
(i.e., KB958690 & KB960225), AU did not notify you that updates were ready
to be installed. (This only happens when all approved updates have
downloaded.)

4. But since you chose to Restart, you saw the SHUTDOWN & INSTALL UPDATES
button. If you'd left the machine up & running and did not choose to
Restart, AU would have eventually downloaded the rereleased MSRT, at which
point AU would have notified you that updates (i.e., all 3 of them) were
ready to be installed.

Compounding the problem is the fact that millions of users who'd downloaded
the original MSRT version (which had been available for almost 24 hours) but
who had not installed it yet required the rereleased version to be
downloaded. This put an additional strain on the update servers (think
"overload"). If you examine your WindowsUpdate.log, I'm sure you'd find
scores of recent "Update is not allowed to download due to regulation"
entries; cf. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/910340.

All in all, a very unusual and infrequently-seen set of circumstances.

--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Client - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

Phil Rabichow wrote:
> But that's not what's happening. I download the updates. Then I DO click
> install. The message in the notification area goes away. Later, when I
> press Alt+F4, I see the only option to install is to "turn off"; not if I
> restart.
>

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

PS: The fact that a Defender update did not download does NOT cause this
behavior. In fact, I wouldn't expect AU to offer a Defender update until
the 13th or 14th at the earliest due to the somewhat-overwhelming demand on
the servers.

PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:

[Phil Rabichow]

Hi Robert:
I know that if the updates say "Restart required" that any kind of reboot is sufficient.
However, I don't get any message about a reboot required. It's only when I press Alt+F4 &
hover the mouse over the "turn off" that I get a message allowing me to either shut down
without installing or shut down with installing. When you say the AU overlay only applies
to shutdown, that's what I want to change. I want to install without shutting down the
computer.

--
Thanks again. I appreciate your time.

Phil

[Phil Rabichow]

Hi Robear:
Thanks for the explanation. Although I've seen it happen several times on my machine, I
don't remember if one of the updates didn't download. Next time this occurs, I'll try
to pay attention to exactly what happens, although I seem to recall that it was only one
Defender update that I downloaded & installed this time.
--
Thanks again for all your time.
Phil

"PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote:

[mae]

Defender already updated today.
Previous update 03/10.
Use AU, checks for update and installs before scan.
A reboot not required.
WinXP Home sp3.
I wondered why the MSRT was not included with the updates.

mae

"PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABe...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:O5Rn9xyo...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

-snip

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

See #2 of my previous reply, mae. The F/P concerned a widely-used
anti-Trojan utility.

[FWIW: All Patch Tuesday updates, including the re-released MSRT, have
downloaded/installed here but I had to update manually on 11 March to get
the MSRT. AU brought down a Defender update on 10 March before the Black
Tuesday patches were released. This morning, AU notified of a Defender
update but it hasn't download yet due to "Regulation." WinXP; AU set to
Notify Only; no Defender scans scheduled.]

mae wrote:
> Defender already updated today.
> Previous update 03/10.
> Use AU, checks for update and installs before scan.
> A reboot not required.
> WinXP Home sp3.
> I wondered why the MSRT was not included with the updates.
>

[Harry Johnston [MVP]]

lvalesko wrote:

> I installed the 3 updates this morning on my Compaq running on an AMD
> Athlon 64 3500+
>
> The shut down process took about 30 minutes as the 3 updates were
> installed and now my computer is SLOOOOOWWWW!

What anti-virus software are you using?

Harry.

>
> It now take 30--45 seconds to open and app and 1 minute to send a 1
> page doc to the printer!
>
> Another odd thing is that after I restart I don't hear the Windows
> boot up 'music' until it's done booting up!! I'm looking at my desktop
> about ready to work and then I'll get the 3-4 tone sounds you usually
> get just after a restart!!
>
> Anyone else having problems with their machines being UNUSUALLY slow
> after today's updates??
>
> Can I just go into Install/Uninstall and remove the 2 security updates
> I see there, (I don't see the third one)?????
>
>

[Harry Johnston [MVP]]

Phil Rabichow wrote:

> I know that if the updates say "Restart required" that any kind of reboot is sufficient.
> However, I don't get any message about a reboot required. It's only when I press Alt+F4 &
> hover the mouse over the "turn off" that I get a message allowing me to either shut down
> without installing or shut down with installing. When you say the AU overlay only applies
> to shutdown, that's what I want to change. I want to install without shutting down the
> computer.

Ideally, this would be done by double-clicking on the Windows Update icon in the
taskbar. If for some reason that icon isn't working, you might prefer to go to
the Windows Update website. Because it uses the same underlying mechanism, any
updates that have already been downloaded won't be downloaded again.

Harry.

[Robert Aldwinckle]

"Phil Rabichow" <Z...@ZZ.com> wrote in message news:49B9341F...@ZZ.com...

> Hi Robert:
> I know that if the updates say "Restart required" that any kind of reboot is sufficient.
> However, I don't get any message about a reboot required. It's only when I press Alt+F4 &
> hover the mouse over the "turn off" that I get a message allowing me to either shut down
> without installing or shut down with installing. When you say the AU overlay only applies
> to shutdown, that's what I want to change. I want to install without shutting down the
> computer.

If you are restarting and later rebooting and the update
which has been downloaded is already installed up to the
point of reboot, I think there would not be any point in
using the Turn off option. As you saw you can check
for that case using the ReportingEvents.log. The only
remaining thing to check would be (before the first boot)
the PendingFileRenameOperations list and the versions
of the modules that it gave.

BTW this just happened to me as PA Bear described.
I have been rebooting using Restart to switch to other
partitions while the malware removal tool would not
download. Today, finally, I got to see the AU icon again;
ran the malware removal tool and now expect not to see
the overlay on the Turn off button again the next time
I reboot. (As a partial test of that case I just pushed the
Sleep button on my keyboard, which I have configured
to show the shut down prompt and indeed there is no overlay.)
IOW the overlay of the icon for all the other times I was booting
(via Restart but probably I would have seen it if I had been using
Turn off too) seem to be just quirks about that other update
which had not yet downloaded, not really significant information
about the one which had actually caused it and which by now
was already completely installed and active.

I would have to do more detailed analysis of the latest logs
to confirm this speculation but it seems adequate to explain
my observations and agrees with PA Bear's description too,
so I may not bother. ; )

Robert
---