FYI - Windows Update agent (client) infrastructure update coming soon

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

Crossposted to Windows Update, Security, and Security HomeUsers newsgroups.
Follow-up set to Windows Update newsgroup.
=================================

Microsoft Update Product Team Blog: Upcoming Update to Windows Update
[I'd like to let you know that, beginning at the end of this month and
continuing over the next few months, we’ll be rolling out an infrastructure
update to the Windows Update agent (client). I wanted to take this
opportunity to provide some background on the update and discuss the value
these updates bring to you...]
http://blogs.technet.com/mu/archive/2008/07/03/upcoming-update-to-windows-update.aspx
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience

[p]

PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:
> Crossposted to Windows Update, Security, and Security HomeUsers newsgroups.
> Follow-up set to Windows Update newsgroup.
> =================================
>
> Microsoft Update Product Team Blog: Upcoming Update to Windows Update
> [I'd like to let you know that, beginning at the end of this month and
> continuing over the next few months, we’ll be rolling out an
> infrastructure update to the Windows Update agent (client). I wanted to
> take this opportunity to provide some background on the update and
> discuss the value these updates bring to you...]
> http://blogs.technet.com/mu/archive/2008/07/03/upcoming-update-to-windows-update.aspx
>

Time to turn off Auto Updates except on the second Wednesday of every month.

P

[Susan Bradley]

Why?

You want WU to work right?

[p]

Hi Susan,

I don't want it to work at all until I tell it to start to work ;-) I
prefer to see what happens to others before I let WU do its thing and I
am not very keen on it doing *anything* without my knowing about it.
When I tell it to not download or install updates and to only inform, I,
for some strange reason, expect that to be the case without any
exceptions. But that's just me and I religiously update my XP machines.
Having said that, I can understand why MS pushes auto updates because I
have seen so many machines that, without it, would go unpatched.

P

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

Why? As soon as you enable (turn on) Automatic Updates and WUA syncs with
the server, the infrastructure update will be installed automatically
anyway, and before ANYTHING else happens. Did you read the blog entry?

PS: Updates aren't necessarily released only on Patch Tuesday.
--
~PA Bear

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

p wrote:
> Susan Bradley wrote:
>> p wrote:
>>> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:
>>>> Crossposted to Windows Update, Security, and Security HomeUsers
>>>> newsgroups.
>>>> Follow-up set to Windows Update newsgroup.
>>>> =================================
>>>>
>>>> Microsoft Update Product Team Blog: Upcoming Update to Windows Update
>>>> [I'd like to let you know that, beginning at the end of this month
>>>> and continuing over the next few months, we’ll be rolling out an
>>>> infrastructure update to the Windows Update agent (client). I wanted
>>>> to take this opportunity to provide some background on the update and
>>>> discuss the value these updates bring to you...]
>>>> http://blogs.technet.com/mu/archive/2008/07/03/upcoming-update-to-windows-update.aspx
>>>>
>>>
>>> Time to turn off Auto Updates except on the second Wednesday of every
>>> month.
>>>

>> Why?
>>
>> You want WU to work right?
>

> I don't want it to work at all until I tell it to start to work ;-) I
> prefer to see what happens to others before I let WU do its thing and I
> am not very keen on it doing *anything* without my knowing about it.
> When I tell it to not download or install updates and to only inform, I,
> for some strange reason, expect that to be the case without any
> exceptions. But that's just me and I religiously update my XP machines.
> Having said that, I can understand why MS pushes auto updates because I
> have seen so many machines that, without it, would go unpatched.

Did you read the blog entry??

[Susan Bradley]

Read the blog post, they are telling you that the mechanism that ensures
that patches will be downloaded when YOU want them to work will continue
to work.

They are not pushing auto updates, they are merely telling us that the
base core foundation is getting it's normal fix so that YOU can
successfully install exactly when you want and how you want them.

[Harry Johnston [MVP]]

Susan Bradley wrote:

> They are not pushing auto updates, they are merely telling us that the
> base core foundation is getting it's normal fix so that YOU can
> successfully install exactly when you want and how you want them.

Granted self-updates use a special mechanism, they are still updates. OS files
are still being modified (albeit only those files that form part of WUA) so,
strictly speaking, WUA is indeed doing an automatic update without permission
despite being configured not to do so.

There isn't any fundamental technical reason why WUA couldn't ask for permission
to do a self-update in much the same way it can ask for permission for ordinary
updates. But of course this would require extra code, and I understand why they
didn't think it was necessary ... in hindsight, I think this was an unfortunate
decision.

Harry.

[p]

Yes and it says that even if you set it to inform but not download or
install, the update to the Update program will download and install
updates to the update program without user input.

P

[p]

I did.

> they are telling you that the mechanism that ensures
> that patches will be downloaded when YOU want them to work will continue
> to work.

They are updating the update program which is, well, an update, even
though it is instructed to ask first.

>
> They are not pushing auto updates, they are merely telling us that the
> base core foundation is getting it's normal fix so that YOU can
> successfully install exactly when you want and how you want them.

It's not a "normal fix"; it's an update.

P

[p]

PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:

And I will know that because I subscribe to this news group and because
I keep myself informed.

>
> PS: Updates aren't necessarily released only on Patch Tuesday.

I know that too for the same reasons.

P

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

Yes, and exactly per the EULA that you agreed to the first time you booted
into Windows. If you don't want the infrastructure to be updated, disable
(turn off) Automatic Updates.

[p]

Like I said above:

"Time to turn off Auto Updates except on the second Wednesday of every
month."

P

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

The infrastructure update helps the updating process itself (i.e.,
detection; downloading; installing; clean-up) work faster and more
efficiently. Why wouldn't you want the Automatic Updates to work faster and
more efficiently *before* Patch Tuesday??

[p]

Because it won't be updating anything until then? I will turn it on next
Wednesday and it will update itself and then get the updates for this
month, yes?

P

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

What about "out-of-band" updates? (Not all updates are released on Patch
Tuesday, you know.)

The blog entry says that the infrastructure update will be rolled out
gradually over the next few months. What if disabling Automatic Updates
(other than on Patch Tuesday) puts you further back in the roll-out queue?

[p]

PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:

After thinking about it, I've turned on "inform but don't download ..."
on all the machines precisely for the reasons you state. Of course,
being as it will be done without my input, how will I know if it's been
done or not?

P

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

There are 2 ways you will know:

1. Updating is faster and more apt to be trouble-free; and/or

2. By monitoring the versions of the files associated with Windows Update
Agent; cf. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/946928

My work here is finished! <VBEG> Thanks for being a good sport while I
played Devil's Advocate.

--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)

MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

[p]

PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:

Just installed XP SP3 on a friend's computer and this update pops up
right away and notifies and asks permission to install. You can either
cancel or install it. You cannot skip it. The 11 updates downloaded
quicker and installed MUCH quicker. It seems it's being offered to XP
SP3 right away because the two computers I have set to Auto Update for a
day or so now haven't received any updates only are up to SP2.

P

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

p wrote:
<snip>

>>> After thinking about it, I've turned on "inform but don't download ..."
>>> on all the machines precisely for the reasons you state. Of course,
>>> being as it will be done without my input, how will I know if it's been
>>> done or not?
>>
>> There are 2 ways you will know:
>>
>> 1. Updating is faster and more apt to be trouble-free; and/or
>>
>> 2. By monitoring the versions of the files associated with Windows
>> Update Agent; cf. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/946928
>>
>> My work here is finished! <VBEG> Thanks for being a good sport while I
>> played Devil's Advocate.
>
> Just installed XP SP3 on a friend's computer and this update pops up
> right away and notifies and asks permission to install. You can either
> cancel or install it. You cannot skip it. The 11 updates downloaded
> quicker and installed MUCH quicker. It seems it's being offered to XP
> SP3 right away because the two computers I have set to Auto Update for a
> day or so now haven't received any updates only are up to SP2.

Sorry to throw rain on your li'l parade but that WGA "update" isn't the
infrastructure update being discussed in this thread. It's an ActiveX
Control that's required to be able to use Windows Update website (vs
updating via Automatic Updates).

[p]

PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:

No, it wasn't WGA and I got it using auto updates, not by visiting the
Windows or Microsoft Update web site. That particular computer doesn't
have WGA installed be it the tool or the active x version.

P

[Susan Bradley]

It's a fix to their engine. Without it, WU won't stay in running condition.

[p]

Yeah, they updated the engine and, as I found out, Auto Update *does*
inform you before proceeding. You cannot untick the update like you can
others but you can refuse to install it. I guess Microsoft is listening!

P

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

Again, the update you installed at Windows Update website was NOT the

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

IGNORE this reply, please.

PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:

<snip>

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

p wrote:
<snip>

>>> Just installed XP SP3 on a friend's computer and this update pops up
>>> right away and notifies and asks permission to install. You can either
>>> cancel or install it. You cannot skip it. The 11 updates downloaded
>>> quicker and installed MUCH quicker. It seems it's being offered to XP
>>> SP3 right away because the two computers I have set to Auto Update for a
>>> day or so now haven't received any updates only are up to SP2.
>>
>> Sorry to throw rain on your li'l parade but that WGA "update" isn't the
>> infrastructure update being discussed in this thread. It's an ActiveX
>> Control that's required to be able to use Windows Update website (vs
>> updating via Automatic Updates).
>
> No, it wasn't WGA and I got it using auto updates, not by visiting the
> Windows or Microsoft Update web site. That particular computer doesn't
> have WGA installed be it the tool or the active x version.

OK, but it still wasn't the upcoming infrastructure update being discussed
in this thread as it's still in beta and won't be released until later this
month (i.e., 22 July or later).