Delayed streaming

[Vladimir Polischuk]

The question for WMS gurus - is there any way to organize delayed streaming
for WMS, like 8 hours delay from the original live stream? Possibly this can
be done programmatically?
Regards,

Vladimir V. Polischuk
http://voynex.com - custom software development,
solutions for Windows Media (pay-per-minute billing,
streaming content protection, access control)

[Neil Smith [MVP Digital Media]]

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:18:44 +0200, "Vladimir Polischuk"
<vl...@exclusivesoft.com> wrote:

>The question for WMS gurus - is there any way to organize delayed streaming
>for WMS, like 8 hours delay from the original live stream? Possibly this can
>be done programmatically?
>Regards,

Supposing you create a dummy WMV file and point a publishing point at
it, setting the broadcast start time as a WallClock value 8 hours
after expected stream start.

http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms755434(VS.85).aspx

Make that publishing point public (i.e.not requiring authorisation)

Now create a second publishing point to accept the stream from the
encoder - set it to Archive on the server, to the dummy filename you
created earlier. You could ensure that's not available (guessable) to
the internet by setting authorisation for the stream.

Once the encoder has finished, the complete file should be archived
and available for on-demand streaming, with the start time determined
by the WallClock value of the public publishing point.

In theory, the on demand PP could be trying to read from the file as
it's being encoded if you tried to overlap stream times, but AFAIK
that won't cause a problem on the server unless the user tries to fast
forward that stream to / past it's live endpoint.

You can lock that behaviour on the server to prevent that though
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms782509(VS.85).aspx
or by using a client side ASX playlist.

To get a similar-to live performance, make sure advanced fast start is
enabled so the client end gets to begin playing the content ASAP :
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/technologies/bettertogether.aspx#advancedfaststart

HTH
Cheers - Neil
------------------------------------------------
Digital Media MVP : 2004-2008
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/mvpfaqs

[Vladimir Polischuk]

Neil,

Thanks a lot for your answer - it gives me the direction. But I see a
potential problem -
this is a live stream so encoder may work for a long period of time - the
dummy.WMS can grow much in size and take up all disk space. Possibly there
is a way to use 2 WMS files and swap then periodically? Or use one file but
somehow make the first publishing point to write to the beginning of the
file after 8 hours? After that the second publishing point can be set to
read from the dummy.WMV in a loop.
Regards,

Vladimir V. Polischuk
www.voynex.com - custom software development,

solutions for Windows Media (pay-per-minute billing,
streaming content protection, access control)

[TotalStream.net]

But you dont want to loop the second stream, just delay it by 6 or 8
hours.

And you want to have minimal impact encoder for the primary stream,
as it will be going continously.

So the trick is going to be to archive the primary stream to a hard
drive, preferably on a different workstation/server, for use 6-8 hours
later; and to have those files time-stamped sequentially, with
different file names; and then deleting those files automatically
Then have the second encoder push the files out as a stream, at the
selected time (delayed by 6 or 8 hours) automatically

The real trick is going to be changing from one *.wmv file to the
next *.wmv file to the CDN, without the viewers seeing any
buffering

We are doing it now with flash (archiving the primary stream to a hard
drive automatically) Dont know how to do it for *.wmv

On Mar 19, 12:00 am, "Vladimir Polischuk" <v...@exclusivesoft.com>
wrote:

> Neil,
>
> Thanks a lot for your answer - it gives me the direction. But I see a
> potential problem -
> this is a live stream so encoder may work for a long period of time - the
> dummy.WMS can grow much in size and take up all disk space. Possibly there
> is a way to use 2 WMS files and swap then periodically? Or use one file but
> somehow make the first publishing point to write to the beginning of the
> file after 8 hours? After that the second publishing point can be set to
> read from the dummy.WMV in a loop.
> Regards,
>

> Vladimir V. Polischukwww.voynex.com- custom software development,

> solutions for Windows Media (pay-per-minute billing,
> streaming content protection, access control)
>
>
>
> > Supposing you create a dummy WMV file and point a publishing point at
> > it, setting the broadcast start time as a WallClock value 8 hours
> > after expected stream start.
>
> >http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms755434(VS.85).aspx
>
> > Make that publishing point public (i.e.not requiring authorisation)
>
> > Now create a second publishing point to accept the stream from the
> > encoder - set it to Archive on the server, to the dummy filename you
> > created earlier. You could ensure that's not available (guessable) to
> > the internet by setting authorisation for the stream.
>
> > Once the encoder has finished, the complete file should be archived
> > and available for on-demand streaming, with the start time determined
> > by the WallClock value of the public publishing point.
>
> > In theory, the on demand PP could be trying to read from the file as
> > it's being encoded if you tried to overlap stream times, but AFAIK
> > that won't cause a problem on the server unless the user tries to fast
> > forward that stream to / past it's live endpoint.
>
> > You can lock that behaviour on the server to prevent that though
> >http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms782509(VS.85).aspx
> > or by using a client side ASX playlist.
>
> > To get a similar-to live performance, make sure advanced fast start is
> > enabled so the client end gets to begin playing the content ASAP :

> >http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/technologies/bettertoge...

>
> > HTH
> > Cheers - Neil
> > ------------------------------------------------
> > Digital Media MVP : 2004-2008

> >http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/mvpfaqs- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Vladimir Polischuk]

I'm talking about the cycle for the second stream to make it read the
dummy.wmv again, but with the new content.

"TotalStream.net" <catchthefallin...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9074583a-2785-41dc...@n58g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...

[David Oren]

Hi,

We are want to stream delayed (8 hours) live broadcast.
It seems that the suggested solution is indeed to archive the stream to the HD and using server side playlist restream it later.
The problem is did anyone managed to change from one .wmv to another with out the viewers noticing it?
How can I do it? We want the viewers experience to be as if it is live broadcast.

TIA
David

> On Monday, March 17, 2008 8:18 AM Vladimir Polischuk wrote:

> The question for WMS gurus - is there any way to organize delayed streaming
> for WMS, like 8 hours delay from the original live stream? Possibly this can
> be done programmatically?
> Regards,
>

> Vladimir V. Polischuk
> http://voynex.com - custom software development,

> solutions for Windows Media (pay-per-minute billing,
> streaming content protection, access control)

>> On Monday, March 17, 2008 4:16 PM Neil Smith [MVP Digital Media] wrote:

>> On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:18:44 +0200, "Vladimir Polischuk"
>> <vl...@exclusivesoft.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>

>> Supposing you create a dummy WMV file and point a publishing point at
>> it, setting the broadcast start time as a WallClock value 8 hours
>> after expected stream start.
>>
>> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms755434(VS.85).aspx
>>
>> Make that publishing point public (i.e.not requiring authorisation)
>>
>> Now create a second publishing point to accept the stream from the
>> encoder - set it to Archive on the server, to the dummy filename you
>> created earlier. You could ensure that's not available (guessable) to
>> the internet by setting authorisation for the stream.
>>
>> Once the encoder has finished, the complete file should be archived
>> and available for on-demand streaming, with the start time determined
>> by the WallClock value of the public publishing point.
>>
>> In theory, the on demand PP could be trying to read from the file as
>> it's being encoded if you tried to overlap stream times, but AFAIK
>> that won't cause a problem on the server unless the user tries to fast
>> forward that stream to / past it's live endpoint.
>>
>> You can lock that behaviour on the server to prevent that though
>> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms782509(VS.85).aspx
>> or by using a client side ASX playlist.
>>
>> To get a similar-to live performance, make sure advanced fast start is
>> enabled so the client end gets to begin playing the content ASAP :

>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/technologies/bettertogether.aspx#advancedfaststart

>>
>> HTH
>> Cheers - Neil
>> ------------------------------------------------
>> Digital Media MVP : 2004-2008
>> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/mvpfaqs

>>> On Wednesday, March 19, 2008 3:00 AM Vladimir Polischuk wrote:

>>> Neil,
>>>
>>> Thanks a lot for your answer - it gives me the direction. But I see a
>>> potential problem -
>>> this is a live stream so encoder may work for a long period of time - the
>>> dummy.WMS can grow much in size and take up all disk space. Possibly there
>>> is a way to use 2 WMS files and swap then periodically? Or use one file but
>>> somehow make the first publishing point to write to the beginning of the
>>> file after 8 hours? After that the second publishing point can be set to
>>> read from the dummy.WMV in a loop.
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Vladimir V. Polischuk

>>> www.voynex.com - custom software development,

>>> solutions for Windows Media (pay-per-minute billing,
>>> streaming content protection, access control)

>>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2008 10:00 PM TotalStream.net wrote:

>>>> But you dont want to loop the second stream, just delay it by 6 or 8
>>>> hours.
>>>>
>>>> And you want to have minimal impact encoder for the primary stream,
>>>> as it will be going continously.
>>>>
>>>> So the trick is going to be to archive the primary stream to a hard
>>>> drive, preferably on a different workstation/server, for use 6-8 hours
>>>> later; and to have those files time-stamped sequentially, with
>>>> different file names; and then deleting those files automatically
>>>> Then have the second encoder push the files out as a stream, at the
>>>> selected time (delayed by 6 or 8 hours) automatically
>>>>
>>>> The real trick is going to be changing from one *.wmv file to the
>>>> next *.wmv file to the CDN, without the viewers seeing any
>>>> buffering
>>>>
>>>> We are doing it now with flash (archiving the primary stream to a hard
>>>> drive automatically) Dont know how to do it for *.wmv
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>

>>>> On Mar 19, 12:00=A0am, "Vladimir Polischuk" <v...@exclusivesoft.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> t

>>>> Submitted via EggHeadCafe - Software Developer Portal of Choice
>>>> WPF Control?s Default Style or Template by Extending the WPF Designer in Visual Studio 2010
>>>> http://www.eggheadcafe.com/tutorials/aspnet/d1ad0a33-d815-4083-8e97-c234fd661095/wpf-controls-default-style-or-template-by-extending-the-wpf-designer-in-visual-studio-2010.aspx

[Jan Ehrhardt]

David Oren in microsoft.public.windowsmedia.server (Thu, 12 Aug 2010
15:38:41 GMT):

>We are want to stream delayed (8 hours) live broadcast.
>It seems that the suggested solution is indeed to archive the stream to the HD and using server side playlist restream it later.
>The problem is did anyone managed to change from one .wmv to another with out the viewers noticing it?
>How can I do it? We want the viewers experience to be as if it is live broadcast.

Try server side playlists:
http://blogs.iis.net/vsood/archive/2007/07/13/server-side-playlists-part-1.aspx

Jan