Question about Longhorn

[Ryan Ross]

And we will see if anyone responds...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Desktop Composition Engine uses a subset of
DirectX. How small is this subset?

-Ryan

[Noah Centenero]

It's now being solely managed by the GPU. It is no longer using the Direct
X composite. Hope that helps.
-Noah C.

"Ryan Ross" <ry...@nni.com> wrote in message
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[Keith Patrick]

What do you mean by that? NT-based OSs interact with hardware, such as the
GPU, with a HAL, and DirectX is a HAL, is it not? How would Avalon interact
with the GPU without DirectX?

"Noah Centenero" <apersonatexampledotcom> wrote in message
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[Noah Centenero]

I actually misunderstood the question. You are correct. I need to start
getting to bed earlier, oy :S Sorry about that.
-Noah C

"Keith Patrick" <richard_ke...@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
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[Ryan Ross]

You were scaring me there for a second. ;)

I know that the various elements of windows are no longer CPU bound (GDI),
and are now GPU bound (DirectX). Textures...

From what I've read, the DCE uses a subset of DirectX (managed code), but
how small is that subset (original question)? Will the subset (undoubtably)
contain various classes that are not part of the DirectX specification?

Any MS people care to comment?

-Ryan

"Noah Centenero" <apersonatexampledotcom> wrote in message

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[Pablo Fernicola [MS]]

The DCE uses the same DirectX unmanaged APIs as other applications.

-Pablo

"Ryan Ross" <ry...@nni.com> wrote in message

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[Ryan Ross]

Ok... I think I'm slowly losing my mind...

(From the article):
The Win32 API, reigning king of the desktop for a decade, is dead; long live
WinFX, Win32's successor. WinFX is a new .NET-based API that provides
managed access to the three Longhorn pillars-Avalon, WinFS, and Indigo-and
all other new Longhorn functionality. Secure managed code is in; native code
and buffer overruns are out.

http://www.fawcette.com/vsm/2004_02/magazine/features/rjennings/default.aspx

The DCE is based on Avalon, correct?

But Avalon uses managed code.

Is Avalon using a managed wrapper for the unmanaged code?

My head hurts,
Ryan

"Pablo Fernicola [MS]" <pa...@fernicola.org> wrote in message
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[Pablo Fernicola [MS]]

(moving this to the Avalon newsgroup - please post follow ups there)

The hardware driver layer is still unmanaged in the Longhorn release, as is
Direct3D, which sits right above the drivers. So, if you are doing lower
level coding, you will eventually hit native code at a certain point.

The Avalon stack covers a lot of functionality (both horizontally - covering
controls, documents, media - and vertically - controls, panel, elements,
MIL, CODECs) and its graphics pipeline reaches all the way down to Direct3D,
which we use as our hardware abstraction. As a side note, this is nice for
hardware folks (IHVs) because it means that Windows graphics in Longhorn
(2D, 3D, text, imaging, video) will all go through a single display hardware
abstraction, and IHVs only need to invest their effort there, resulting in
better stability and quality.

The bulk of the development work that we are doing in Avalon is done in
managed code (C#), it is only at the bottom of the graphics pipeline (where
the DCE lives) that we need to interface with to Direct3D through native
code (where we use managed C++ and C++). It is not a matter of writing
wrappers, but doing the optimal mapping of the managed data structures and
call patterns to minimize manage to native transitions, and achieve the best
throughput. This work is not something that you would notice or have to
worry about at the WinFX level, other than taking advantage of the nice
performance for graphics.

-Pablo

"Ryan Ross" <ry...@nni.com> wrote in message

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[Ryan Ross]

Aright, I'm out of my depth with this question, so I may be off on a few
things:

What kind of external methods will be exposed by Avalon in terms of window
functionality?

What I mean is, will it be possible to affect/extend Avalon's
capabilities/presentation of the DCE via {equivalent (Paint)} hooks or other
interfaces?

Am I making sense?
-Ryan

"Pablo Fernicola [MS]" <pa...@fernicola.org> wrote in message

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[Ryan Ross]

My apologies for cross-posting.

-Ryan

"Ryan Ross" <ry...@nni.com> wrote in message

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