Win 3.11-Undelete won't work
Mike Godett
Recently tried to use mw undelete, and get "Not enough memory to run
undelete" every time. restarting windows doesn't help. Sys is 3.11,
dos 6.22, 64 M RAM. Over 600k conventional mem when windows loads.
Never get insufficient mem messages with any other applications. Any
ideas?
Thanks
Mike Godett
Mike Godett
Thorsten:
Thanks for the quick answer to my puzzle. I never would have guessed 32
bit access was the culprit. I use both 32 bit disk and file access. If
you have time for another question, Are there any other applications they
interfere with?
Thanks again.
Mike godett
Thorsten Matzner/MVP wrote:
> If you are using Windows for Workgroups with the 32-bit file access
> enabled, you can not use Undelete from within Windows. Exit WfWG and
> use Undelete from the DOS prompt. If you want to undelete smaller
> files, insert an empty and formatted disk in the floppy drive and use
> the "Undelete To" function to undelete the file to the disk. Then copy
> it back to it's previous place on the HDD.
>
> (tm)
Jerry Lippey/MVP
-pmji
Mike, this only involves 32-bit file access - not 32-bit disk access.
It's basically due to the fact that the disk is not easily available
without going through Vcache. I've pasted below a piece from the WFWG
Resource Kit.
Also, see these:
"32-Bit File Access ErrMsg: Exit Windows and Run the MS-DOS...":
http://www.microsoft.com/kb/articles/Q109/5/27.htm
"PC Tools Utilities Fail When 32-Bit Access Is Enabled":
http://www.microsoft.com/kb/articles/Q114/2/64.htm
For these reasons, many people do not enable 32bfa. I think I remember
that Thorsten said he doesn't.
Occasionally, it actually slows things down. See "System Slows After
32-Bit File Access Is Enabled":
http://www.microsoft.com/kb/articles/Q106/2/66.htm.
-Jerry
---------------8<-------------- <snip> -------------------------
Incompatibilities with 32-bit file access and various Windows disk
utilities
Many Windows or non-Windows disk utilities may not work correctly with
32-bit file access enabled. These utilities will fail when attempting to
do an INT26h (Absolute Disk Read). These type of utilities may give
bizarre error messages such as "System Write Protect." If you need to
run one of these utilities, disable 32-Bit File Access in the Virtual
Memory-Disk dialog box and restart Windows for Workgroups 3.11 and then
re-enable it when you are finished running the utility.
Utilities that make direct calls to the drive (such as Norton's Disk
Doctor) must not be used in an MS-DOS box on a drive that is controlled
by 32-bit file access. These utilities should be used outside of
Windows.
Note Independent of whether 32-bit File Access is enabled, use of disk
utilities in a MS-DOS box is not recommended. Applications or utilities
that cannot install or run on a remote drive will fail if 32-bit File
Access is enabled. DiskEdit, SpeedDisk and other similar types of
Norton Utilities are applications that are not compatible with 32-bit
File Access.
Thorsten Matzner/MVP
Thorsten Matzner/MVP
Mike Godett <mik...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Thanks for the quick answer to my puzzle. I never would have guessed 32
>bit access was the culprit. I use both 32 bit disk and file access. If
>you have time for another question, Are there any other applications they
>interfere with?
As Jerry noted, just the 32-bit file access makes trouble here. It
interferes with all applications, that want to write to the disk on a
direct way. The VCache takes over control over all disk read/write
tasks because it manages the File Allocation Table (FAT) in the memory
instead of on the disk itself. If an application would be allowed to
write directly to the disk, the FAT copy managed by VCache would
differ from the real FAT on the disk and that may cause data loss.
Therefore you can not run any disk maintaining tools under the 32BFA,
like repair tools or defraggers, even if they have been designed to
work in Windows. For Undelete: the 32BFA also seems to conflict with
backing up the deleted data. I had the problem that files I deleted
just recently even were not recoverable with the DOS Undelete. So I
decided to get rid of the 32BFA at all to keep my data safe.
(tm)
StanR
Thorsten Matzner/MVP wrote:
>
> Therefore you can not run any disk maintaining tools under the 32BFA,
> like repair tools or defraggers, even if they have been designed to
> work in Windows. For Undelete: the 32BFA also seems to conflict with
> backing up the deleted data. I had the problem that files I deleted
> just recently even were not recoverable with the DOS Undelete. So I
> decided to get rid of the 32BFA at all to keep my data safe.
>
> (tm)
Thorsten,
I can report that versions of the Norton Quick Unerase will work fine in
DOS when files are deleted in Windows under 32bit d&f access.
I (unfortunately) wind up doing this from time-to-time. I have to exit
out of windows and QU under DOS, but it works just fine.
I have several versions of the nortons utilities, or bit and pieces of
them lying around and all seem to work ok.
I don't use the DOS undelete anyway, but wouldn't trade the 32 bit file
access for all the undeletes in the world.<g> THe difference for my
system is a 2MBPS vs almost 16MBPS average weighed disk access rate, as
measured with WIntune. Just too much performance to give up.
Stan
Mike Godett
Thanks to all for the useful information. Being unaware of these conflicts,
I have been using my Norton 8.0 disc tools in DOS windows, without any
apparent problems. Disc Doctor and Speed disk seem to work fine. Am I
risking loss of disc data if I continue?
What about mwbackup. Does 32 bit FA interfere with its normal operation. I
usually back up to my Syquest from windows. Haven't had to restore lately,
so don't know if it hasn't worked properly. Should I disable 32 bit FA
before backing up?
Thanks again for the help.
Mike Godett
StanR
Mike Godett wrote:
>
> Thanks to all for the useful information. Being unaware of these conflicts,
> I have been using my Norton 8.0 disc tools in DOS windows, without any
> apparent problems. Disc Doctor and Speed disk seem to work fine. Am I
> risking loss of disc data if I continue?
No, not in DOS. However you should not use the Norton _DOS_ utilities
under a Windows DOS Shell.
In other words, exit Windows to a regular DOS session before you use
anthing that writes directly to disk.
This would includes QU, NU, Norton Disk Editor, and even DOS's CHKDSK if
used with the /f option.
But exiting to DOS and using these tools is just fine.
Using the Windows Norton utilities is just fine in the windows
enviornment.
If the 32bit driver does detect a problem, it will issue a warning and
not perform the action.
>
> What about mwbackup. Does 32 bit FA interfere with its normal operation. I
> usually back up to my Syquest from windows. Haven't had to restore lately,
> so don't know if it hasn't worked properly. Should I disable 32 bit FA
> before backing up?
Shouldn't be a problem. Backup just manulipates files. I never use the
MS backup, but I don't think they'll cause any problems.
FWIW, I too have a Syquest, an older 270MB that is not capable of 32 bi
access. But everything else works just fine with it.
HTH,
Stan