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Reminder - Microsoft Responds to the Evolution of Community

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nn...@microsoft.com

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May 19, 2010, 6:48:05 PM5/19/10
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What is Happening?
This message is to inform you that Microsoft will soon begin discontinuing
newsgroups and transitioning users to Microsoft forums.

Why?
As you may know, newsgroups have existed for many years now; however, the
traffic in the Microsoft newsgroups has been steadily decreasing for the
past several years while customers and participants are increasingly finding
solutions in the forums on Microsoft properties and third party sites. This
move will unify the customer experience, centralize content, make it easier
for active contributors to retain their influence, mitigate redundancies and
make the content easier to find by customers and search engines through
improved indexing. Additionally, forums offer a better user and spam
management platform that will improve customer satisfaction by encouraging a
healthy discussion in a clean community space. To this end, Microsoft will
begin to progressively shift available resources to the forums technology
and discontinue support for newsgroups.

In addition to offering a compelling online browser experience, for those
users who prefer to use an NNTP (newsgroup) reader to participate in the
newsgroups community, we have developed a solution called the NNTP Bridge
which allows a user to connect a variety of supported NNTP readers to the
forums they would like to participate in and continue having the NTTP reader
functionality. You can find instructions on how to download and set up the
NNTP Bridge here: http://connect.microsoft.com/MicrosoftForums/

Which Newsgroups Are Affected by this Shutdown?
All public newsgroups will eventually be closed between June 1, 2010 and
October 1, 2010. Microsoft will be closing newsgroups in a phased approach,
starting with the least active newsgroups and moving eventually to more
active ones throughout the course of the next six months.


Where Should I go with the Closure of this Newsgroup?
In an effort to enhance and improve your experience, this newsgroup is scheduled for closure in the upcoming months and we would like to invite you to participate at http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/vssmartdevicesnative/threads forum(s). An exact date will be posted in advance as plans are finalized.

Should you want to visit the other Microsoft Forums, please go to
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/forums/default.mspx

Who Should I Contact with any Questions?
Send any questions about the process, recommended forums and timing to
NN...@microsoft.com

David Scambler

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May 19, 2010, 10:06:37 PM5/19/10
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nn...@microsoft.com wrote in news:e8JJZV69...@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl:

> http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/vssmartdevicesnative/thre
> ads

And there it is. Positive proof of Microsoft's ignorance of the needs of
users of this group.
Why on earth do they assume I would want to consult a smart devices forum?
How will that enhance and improve my experience?
Was the post automatically generated by an idiotic bing search for the term
"mfc"?

Liviu

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May 20, 2010, 2:06:43 AM5/20/10
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<nn...@microsoft.com> wrote...

>
> Which Newsgroups Are Affected by this Shutdown?
> All public newsgroups will eventually be closed between June 1,
> 2010 and October 1, 2010. Microsoft will be closing newsgroups
> in a phased approach, starting with the least active newsgroups
> and moving eventually to more active ones throughout the course
> of the next six months.

Not that it matters, I know, but just curious about the math...
This .mfc group has more traffic than the .windbg one, yet it's slated
to close first, while the other one will last until September. Odd.

Liviu

P.S. No slight or disrespect intended for .windbg, on the contrary, I'd
like to see it (and all others) continue to hold their well-earned own.


Goran

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May 20, 2010, 2:19:52 AM5/20/10
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On May 20, 8:06 am, "Liviu" <lab...@gmail.c0m> wrote:
> <n...@microsoft.com> wrote...
>
> > Which Newsgroups Are Affected by this Shutdown?
> > All public newsgroups will eventually be closed between June 1,
> > 2010 and October 1, 2010.  Microsoft will be closing newsgroups
> > in a phased approach, starting with the least active newsgroups
> > and moving eventually to  more active ones throughout the course
> > of the next six months.
>
> Not that it matters, I know, but just curious about the math...
> This .mfc group has more traffic than the .windbg one, yet it's slated
> to close first, while the other one will last until September. Odd.

ABCD...M...W..., I guess... :-)

Goran

Joseph M. Newcomer

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May 20, 2010, 2:55:02 AM5/20/10
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The decision is poorly thought out and community-hostile. But what can you expect from a
company that would release products like VS.NET (with its user-hostile IDE) and Office
2007 (with the worst user interface of any product in history).
joe

Joseph M. Newcomer [MVP]
email: newc...@flounder.com
Web: http://www.flounder.com
MVP Tips: http://www.flounder.com/mvp_tips.htm

Giovanni Dicanio

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May 20, 2010, 4:56:21 AM5/20/10
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"David Scambler" <aa@aa> wrote:

>> http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/vssmartdevicesnative/thre
>> ads
>
> And there it is. Positive proof of Microsoft's ignorance of the needs of
> users of this group.
> Why on earth do they assume I would want to consult a smart devices forum?
> How will that enhance and improve my experience?
> Was the post automatically generated by an idiotic bing search for the
> term
> "mfc"?

I think this should be the right place:

http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/vcmfcatl/threads

Giovanni

Pete Delgado

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May 20, 2010, 2:39:25 PM5/20/10
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Joe, obviously you have forgotten Microsoft Bob. Nuff said! lol

-Pete

"Joseph M. Newcomer" <newc...@flounder.com> wrote in message
news:64n9v5l4klombhgln...@4ax.com...

Hans-J. Ude

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May 20, 2010, 3:13:32 PM5/20/10
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Pete Delgado schrieb:

>Joe, obviously you have forgotten Microsoft Bob. Nuff said! lol
>
>-Pete

The dog from MS Bob made his way until into WinXP, wagging it's tail
and sniffing for files. Sigh, it's so faulty. Some others were gadgets
in early office versions. ;)

Hans

Michael Fosmire [MSFT]

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May 20, 2010, 5:34:06 PM5/20/10
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Hey folks,

This looks like a very obvious clerical error. I'll talk to the cleric in
charge and get this fixed.

-mike

"Giovanni Dicanio" <giovanniD...@REMOVEMEgmail.com> wrote in message
news:#bgKXp$9KHA...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

BobF

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May 20, 2010, 8:04:48 PM5/20/10
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I realize some consider MS a religious experience, but you actually have
clerics?!

Joseph M. Newcomer

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May 20, 2010, 8:05:02 PM5/20/10
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See my takeoff on Dr. Seuss's "If I ran the Zoo", called "If I wrote a view",

http://www.flounder.com/mcgrews_view.htm

I�ll go to the heap and with bits I�ll hobnobj,
And avoiding the Bobj, I�ll bring back an obj.
And with it, I�ll start up a really big jobj,
That solves a completely intractable probj.
Then people will flock to my site, in a mobj,
"McGrew:, they will say, "has done more than enobj!
He writes with such vim, and he writes with such vigor,
His new view, McGrew�s View, gets bigger and bigger!"

NOBODY should forget "Bob"!
joe

Hector Santos

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May 20, 2010, 9:02:14 PM5/20/10
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Stop! <g>

Doug Harrison [MVP]

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May 20, 2010, 9:23:13 PM5/20/10
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On Thu, 20 May 2010 19:04:48 -0500, BobF <noth...@nospam.yum> wrote:

>I realize some consider MS a religious experience, but you actually have
>clerics?!

They're like Grammaton Clerics. You don't want to mess with them.

--
Doug Harrison
Visual C++ MVP

Liviu

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May 21, 2010, 2:00:30 AM5/21/10
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"Michael Fosmire [MSFT]" <mik...@online.microsoft.com> wrote...

>
> This looks like a very obvious clerical error. I'll talk to the
> cleric in charge and get this fixed.

While at it, you may want to have the "cleric" fix it for the
microsoft.public.vc.atl group, too, where the latest pointer
(from just after you posted the message above) is...

|| Where Should I go with the Closure of this Newsgroup?

|| [...] We recommend that you start with
|| http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/categories

...a generic listing-of-all web forums. It should rather be the same one
repeatedly mentioned here, most recently by Giovanni two posts above.

>> I think this should be the right place:
>>
>> http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/vcmfcatl/threads

There are more dubious choices of "recommended redirection" for
.win32.programmer.ole, .win2000.cmdprompt.admin to name a couple
which I happened to look at. Doesn't MS care to plan such massive
migration in advance at all?

While I reckon that most of the regulars here must have already made
up their minds about going - or not - to the closed web forums, so these
missteps may well be inconsequential in some sense, yet the last
impression left by MS before shutting down their nntp server will have
been of utter unprofessional incoordination.

Liviu


nn...@microsoft.com

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May 21, 2010, 2:36:31 AM5/21/10
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Where Should I go with the Closure of this Newsgroup?

In an effort to enhance and improve your experience, this newsgroup is
scheduled for closure in the upcoming months and we would like to invite you
to participate

http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/vcmfcatl/threads forum(s). An

nn...@microsoft.com

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May 21, 2010, 2:36:45 AM5/21/10
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Hi All-

This has been corrected as requested! My apologies for the incorrect
pointer.

Thanks!


"Doug Harrison [MVP]" <d...@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:70obv5phe7q0e6qeh...@4ax.com...

Giovanni Dicanio

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May 21, 2010, 3:55:32 AM5/21/10
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"Joseph M. Newcomer" <newc...@flounder.com> wrote:

> See my takeoff on Dr. Seuss's "If I ran the Zoo", called "If I wrote a
> view",
>
> http://www.flounder.com/mcgrews_view.htm

Joe: congrats, this is fantastic! :)
I loved it!
This was "killing" me :)


BTW: Just a simple adjustment, if you mind:

You wrote:

<dynamic_cast> never quite catches them all,
So we get an ASSERT trap at each function call.

But dynamic_cast<> throws a std::bad_alloc exception as a result of a failed
cast, so I would update the sentence like this:

dynamic_cast<> never quite catches them all,
So we get a std::bad_cast at each function call.

[I noted that some people pronounce "std" like "stood".]


Thanks for sharing with us such a fun and creative poem!

Giovanni


Michael Fosmire [MSFT]

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May 21, 2010, 10:36:04 AM5/21/10
to
I have made the recommendation that we change the atl newsgroup to forum
suggestion based on your feedback.

If you have other suggestions, we're very open. Just email
nn...@microsoft.com.

-mike

"Liviu" <lab...@gmail.c0m> wrote in message
news:ewBnSsK#KHA....@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

Peter Olcott

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May 21, 2010, 11:13:09 AM5/21/10
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On 5/21/2010 9:36 AM, Michael Fosmire [MSFT] wrote:
> I have made the recommendation that we change the atl newsgroup to forum
> suggestion based on your feedback.
>
> If you have other suggestions, we're very open. Just email
> nn...@microsoft.com.

Don't go through with dropping the newsgroups. This is idea that is as
bad as New Coke.

Peter Olcott

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May 21, 2010, 11:15:45 AM5/21/10
to
On 5/21/2010 9:36 AM, Michael Fosmire [MSFT] wrote:
> I have made the recommendation that we change the atl newsgroup to forum
> suggestion based on your feedback.
>
> If you have other suggestions, we're very open. Just email
> nn...@microsoft.com.

The idea of dropping the newsgroups is yet another reason for developers
to quit supporting the Microsoft platform.

Hector Santos

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May 21, 2010, 12:41:12 PM5/21/10
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What might be useful to people in their own migration plans is to
provide an a list of the first to be turned off and possible the time
order of the expected turn offs.

Like for example if you indicated this MFC group was scheduled to die
June 1, you will find many more people rushing to figure out what they
need to do more urgently.

Cholo Lennon

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May 21, 2010, 1:25:10 PM5/21/10
to

On 21/05/2010 12:15, Peter Olcott wrote:
> On 5/21/2010 9:36 AM, Michael Fosmire [MSFT] wrote:
>> I have made the recommendation that we change the atl newsgroup to forum
>> suggestion based on your feedback.
>>
>> If you have other suggestions, we're very open. Just email
>> nn...@microsoft.com.
>
> The idea of dropping the newsgroups is yet another reason for developers
> to quit supporting the Microsoft platform.
>

I agree. In my case I will stop providing support for VC spanish
community (among other reasons, I don't like web forums and nowadays,
Windows is not my main development platform)

Regards

--
Cholo Lennon
Bs.As.
ARG

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