NO, MICROSOFT DOES NOT SEND OUT SECURITY PATCHES, IT IS A VIRUS!
Keith W. McCammon
Torrey
"Keith W. McCammon" <k...@km.com> wrote in message
news:#pLrHLtH...@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> Fix your date.
>
>
I future posted because:
1. This question will make you so sick of hearing it you will soon want to
puke.
2. I hoped that by staying at the top the typical home users would MAYBE
read it and have there question answered.
![Karl Levinson [x y] mvp's profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXJ4yyKMSc-zdl4Ed-lrUsd5iReQuD0v3kykK7GOJR0zeJ8=s40-c)
Karl Levinson [x y] mvp
"Torrey" <TRi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:#9ybOStH...@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> I future posted because:
>
> 1. This question will make you so sick of hearing it you will soon want
to
> puke.
> 2. I hoped that by staying at the top the typical home users would MAYBE
> read it and have there question answered.
Yes, but future posting doesn't work on the newsgroup web interface at
www.microsoft.com/support, which is where most of these questions come from.
So, most of these people are unlikely to see your post after a day or so.
Torrey
"Karl Levinson [x y] mvp" <levin...@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:egiWfVtH...@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
Crap. I will not do it again then.
Jason
> THERE.
>
>
Nice try but do you really think anyones going to actually read it? They
aren't reading the several hundred allready on this. :)
Jason
Torrey
"Daniel Billingsley" <dbilli...@NO.durcon.SPAAMM.com> wrote in message
news:eITtMK5...@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> I've never really understood that. Why do people looking for an answer
post
> here as the FIRST option? Many of their questions (in other newsgroups
like
> 'file_system' especially) can be answered in under 15 minutes of Help or
KB
> searching, but they choose to post here first and then hope in 2 or 3
hours
> somebody will give them an answer. It seems like pure unadulterated
> laziness to me, but there's got to be something else, doesn't there?
>
>
> "Jason" <spam...@deadspam.com> wrote in message
> news:OiXLsztH...@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Because they are f'ing lazy asses who don't want to RTFM or learn anything.
They deserve every virus they get plus 1.
Charles Otstot
>
> Because they are f'ing lazy asses who don't want to RTFM or learn
anything.
> They deserve every virus they get plus 1.
>
>
Use a little thought and have a little compassion Torrey...
The vast majority of those who post these questions are not newsgroup
habitues. They are more often ordinary, everyday people who use a computer
to perform ordinary, everyday tasks. If they are technical at all, it's on a
very rudimentary level. Those who want to learn more will do so, but without
making the mistakes that *all* inexperienced people (I've hated the word
"newbie" for nearly 20 years) make. These folks are simply looking for a
helping hand from those they consider more knowledgeable and who can either
allay their fears or assist them in preventing those fears from resulting in
(perceived) disaster. They deserve to be treated with respect and kindness,
not ridicule and insults. It doesn't take but a minute to answer the
question, why waste that time with vitriol? It hasn't helped anybody and
makes it that much more likely that the questioner will shy away from
learning more and will really encounter problems down the road.
Religion aside, you really are your brother's keeper. If we're not willing
to help others, we become less than nothing ourselves.
Jason
>
> "Torrey" <TRi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:eeFW005...@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>
>> Because they are f'ing lazy asses who don't want to RTFM or learn
> anything.
>> They deserve every virus they get plus 1.
>>
>>
> BZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!! WRONG ANSWER!!!!!!
>
> Use a little thought and have a little compassion Torrey...
>
> The vast majority of those who post these questions are not newsgroup
> habitues. They are more often ordinary, everyday people who use a computer
> to perform ordinary, everyday tasks. If they are technical at all, it's on a
> very rudimentary level. Those who want to learn more will do so, but without
> making the mistakes that *all* inexperienced people (I've hated the word
> "newbie" for nearly 20 years) make.
Then they should learn to do a search. It's not that hard, I use a text
newsreader and I see about 50 from the start asking the same question.
And when I go to the MS website and access this group I see at least a
dozen all asking the same question. All without my ever reading a post
just the subject lines.
>These folks are simply looking for a
> helping hand from those they consider more knowledgeable and who can either
> allay their fears or assist them in preventing those fears from resulting in
> (perceived) disaster. They deserve to be treated with respect and kindness,
> not ridicule and insults. It doesn't take but a minute to answer the
> question, why waste that time with vitriol? It hasn't helped anybody and
> makes it that much more likely that the questioner will shy away from
> learning more and will really encounter problems down the road.
>
> Religion aside, you really are your brother's keeper. If we're not willing
> to help others, we become less than nothing ourselves.
>
>
Im no ones keeper but my own. I and probibly many others have no
problem helping out if someone has a problem but also we expect a little
leg work to be done by the person who has the problem.
Little things like doing a search to see if this is a common
problem etc.. They get short answers and insults because
after the 50th time you see the same question asked by someone
too lazy to do any work you get a little grumpy.
Jason
Charles Otstot
> * Charles Otstot <sar...@nc.rr.com>:
> <snip>
> Then they should learn to do a search. It's not that hard, I use a text
> newsreader and I see about 50 from the start asking the same question.
> And when I go to the MS website and access this group I see at least a
> dozen all asking the same question. All without my ever reading a post
> just the subject lines.
>
people out there who barely know how to begin. Remember, a *lot* of people
are still intimidated by computers, particularly people who were adults when
PC's first began making their way into general use (historically, adults
have had a more difficult time comprehending computer usage than children).
If they see a question posed even a *little* differently than they have it
posed in their own minds, they won't make the connection. This isn't
laziness, it's simply a combination of a lack of knowledge, fear and
intimidation.
> >
>
> I'm no ones keeper but my own. I and probibly many others have no
> problem helping out if someone has a problem but also we expect a little
> leg work to be done by the person who has the problem.
> Little things like doing a search to see if this is a common
> problem etc.. They get short answers and insults because
> after the 50th time you see the same question asked by someone
> too lazy to do any work you get a little grumpy.
>
> Jason
Yes, we all like to see leg work done and many give helpful advice on
learning to do that legwork. Yes, after a while it can be easy to get a
"little grumpy". My point is, don't just lump all those who ask the question
into the category of "lazy". Some are, many others simply don't have a level
of knowledge that affords them the opportunity to even begin searching.
Charlie
Jason
I don't buy that. All I did was go to the MS webpage and this
newsgroup and saw a swack of postings on "is this real?" "is this from
MS?" "sup...@microsoft.com" All they had do to was a little work on
thier own but too many people are too lazy and used to being spoon fed
so they didn't bother to look at all.
Jason
Daniel Billingsley
can subscribe to a newsgroup easier than they can click on that big Help
icon right there on their Start menu?
"Charles Otstot" <sar...@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:%23xAwzt7...@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]
getting paid by the post to answer NG questions, I presume, so the simple
answer is: don't reply to the ones you feel grumpy about.
Daniel Billingsley
However, in a newsgroup the flood of posts asking questions that could have
been easily answered with a few minutes of responsibility and searching take
away from the overall value of the newsgroup to those needing more advanced
help. For illustration - if there were 1,000 posts here a day by people
asking if Microsoft sent them a virus, we'd all just unsubscribe and then
this would become a useless resource for those truly needing more advanced
help.
It's much like a spammer suggesting that "It's no big deal - can't you just
hit the delete button?"
I don't mean to argue here, and I've certainly been known to answer those
questions myself sometimes, but I hope you can see the other side of this
too.
One of the things may be helpful is for someone to take on the task of
compiling a FAQ of these types of questions and then posting it here about
3-4 times a day with the subject "FAQ - read this before posting your
question" or something like that.
"Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]"
<lanw...@heybuddy.donotsendme.unsolicitedmail.atyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:OUN%23ZTAID...@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
xp slave
malicious spammers. A lot of these new users are barely able to post to the
newsgroups via the web interface much less figure out how to search one. It
may be simple to you but it's not to them. What if someone sat you down in
the pilot's seat on a 757 and said "OK, fly me to LA". If you had never
flown an airplane you wouldn't have a clue.
"Daniel Billingsley" <dbilli...@NO.durcon.SPAAMM.com> wrote in message
news:e$V50IGID...@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
Kerry Liles
Can't be much harder than say, stopping SPAM.
"xp slave" <nos...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e5GB95TI...@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Torrey
and
> malicious spammers. A lot of these new users are barely able to post to
the
> newsgroups via the web interface much less figure out how to search one.
It
> may be simple to you but it's not to them. What if someone sat you down
in
> the pilot's seat on a 757 and said "OK, fly me to LA". If you had never
> flown an airplane you wouldn't have a clue.
Bad analogy. I would know I don't know how to operate a 757. I would not
just start pushing buttons and clicking things like a home user would. Home
users are led to believe a pc is easy to operate.
Daniel Billingsley
can just delete spam to the argument with regard to newsgroups that we can
just "don't reply to the ones you feel grumpy about". I compared the effect
of these newsgroup posts to the effects of spam, a very different thing from
comparing the people doing it of course. Whether the intention is malicious
or benign, the flood of those posts here lessens the value of the newsgroup,
just like spam does for email. So, unfortunately, I am all too right.
Anyway, I fail to see how you think a user can find his way to a newsgroup
(which even from the web interface doesn't exactly jump out at a new user
staring at his screen scratching his head) and post a new message, but
doesn't have the wherewithal to even scroll down the list to see if any
similar questions have been asked. That's why I proposed the frequent
posting of a FAQ of sorts, so a new user could see it in the list without
having to be able to do any kind of search.
"xp slave" <nos...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e5GB95TI...@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]
repetitive posts. That's just the way a public newsgroup works - and as more
and more people are finding out about the NGs (MS directs you to their web
version from the MS support pages), it's only going to get worse. That's why
a canned boilerplate reply is a good idea - or just ignore the post, if you
are feeling frustrated, which we all do from time to time. Iisn't Joe
Blogg's fault that three hundred people before him asked the same question -
best to give him a canned answer that also explains how to use NGs rather
than jumping down the poor guy's throat - a lot of people are happy to learn
the rules.
Daniel Billingsley
posts and they'll probably get worse.
But I counted five link clicks to get to this newsgroup, and that was
starting on the support page (which wouldn't be where a new user would
start). Then, right there with the New Post button is the Search button.
The user chooses to push the New Post button for some reason, and it's not
because it's the only one there or the obvious choice. By that I mean he
has to have at least some basic understanding of what a newsgroup is to know
what New Post even means. So, he's looking for information - why doesn't he
push the Search button like he already has done a gazillion web sites when
he's looking for information?
It's the psychology of this conscious choice which I originally started this
discussion about. I would presume that by the time he presses New Post he
understands well enough that he's going to have to come back and check to
see if anybody answers his question. If anything, that minimum required
level of knowledge to even understand what a newsgroup is should lead him to
the realization that it's worth a shot to try the Search button, shouldn't
it? I mean, that's really my question - isn't it rather obvious looking at
that web form, with at least the minimal knowledge of newsgroups that you
would have to have by that point, that New Post is NOT the quickest way to
find an answer to your problem?
In the end I suppose we can never get inside that user's head, so we'll
never know. I guess I was more pondering out loud.
"Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]"
<lanw...@heybuddy.donotsendme.unsolicitedmail.atyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:uYJCgaVI...@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
Brad
It's been my experience as I've read this newsgroup over the past, that many
of the new users seem to think it's supported by microsoft, and that they'll
get
an answer from a microsoft rep.
And if you follow the links provided by Microsoft, there's no obvious
disclaimer that this is not so: there's plenty of links claiming it's free
support, but you'd have to do some searching to see that it's not supported
by Microsoft representatives. (That'd be more time searching for a question
they weren't asking.)
Just looking at the web-based newsgroup, it actually seems to imply the
opposite: see
http://support.microsoft.com/newsgroups/default.aspx?NewsGroup=microsoft.public.security&SLCID=US&ICP=GSS3&sd=GN&id=fh;en-us;newsgroups
for an example.
Right in the upper left corner, it says "Microsoft Product Support
Services."
And I've seen plenty of questions from people indicating they expect a
personal response - an e-mail from Microsoft. They don't all come back to
check the newsgroup, as evidenced by some of the people repeating
themselves, asking why their question wasn't answered when it's been
answered a bazillion times.
Something else I've noticed, when searching the newsgroups and searching via
search engines: When I'm searching on a problem, it's more common to find
questions than answers. Some people can continue to take the time to
research and learn - most other people have to go on with their lives and
don't have time to study to become a security guru.
While that's not necessarily a solution, I think it's an explanation why
there's so many repeated questions. (I've already suggested to Microsoft,
many ways many times, that they should put a disclaimer on their public
newsgroups advising that the questions are not necessarily answered by
Microsoft employees - and that they'll be answered publicly, not via
e-mail - if they're answered.)
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release Date: 5/13/2003
Daniel Billingsley
"Brad" <ME_IN_YOUR...@bookbrad.com> wrote in message
news:Oe$4nj4ID...@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> <big snip summarized: Web version of newsgroups looks like Microsoft
support>
>
Excellent excellent points Brad. That would certainly make a LOT of sense.
I'll just join the crusade to persuade Microsoft to add that disclaimer.
Super_Geek
asks a question to do with PCs, Super_Geek dives in and tries to help:
>What if someone sat you down
>in
>> the pilot's seat on a 757 and said "OK, fly me to LA". If you had never
>> flown an airplane you wouldn't have a clue.
>>
Nah. Easy. Crank up the throttle, pull back on the stick thing. The
biggest problem would be landing, or finding the way to LA...
This reminds me of that great joke when BGates compared windows to cars.
He said:
'If the Automobile industry had kept up with Windows' advances, we'd
have cars that do 100miles to the gallon and are perfectly
environmentally friendly', or something similar, which is perfectly
true.
The responds from General Motors was 'Yes, but would you want your car
to crash every 2 minutes'?
:)
--
Super_Geek, 15
"If you can't beat your computer at chess, try kickboxing."