Bruce, help!

Epinn

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Sep 8, 2006, 3:23:46 PM9/8/06

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Hi,

I have to start a new thread as I can't see a single message for this newsgroup right now.

I followed your instructions in my other thread. Get xxx headers at a time has always been unchecked. I set a new message rule (60 days etc.) and applied it to OE only. Thank God I didn't do this to the other newsgroups. Then I clicked cleanup etc. All the other newsgroups seem to have downloaded the messages and are back to business. But OE is *blank* with a message saying ".....Some items may be hidden because a view is applied." I tried to find the rule so that I could delete it. But not sure how. Right now, I am worse than a while ago i.e. I don't even see my own posts and synchronization doesn't help and I can't delete the rule. I am stuck staring at a blank pane for OE.

I have been wondering even if my cleanup, reset, download work properly, why did I have a problem with OE in the first place? What caused it?

Glad I can still send out a new post.

Help! Thanks.

Epinn

Bruce Hagen

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Sep 8, 2006, 3:39:55 PM9/8/06

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For the rule, Tools | Message Rules | News. Find it and click Remove.

You must have done something else also, because this message was sent using
Quoted Printable instead of MIME / None. I am also getting a prompt to
install a language pack to view this message correctly.

In Tools | Options | Read | Fonts - Make sure Western European (ISO) is
selected.

In View | Layout, make sure Show All Messages and Group Messages By
Conversation are checked.

Lastly, Set up a new identity and set up MSnews. See if there is a
difference. Identities can become damaged, especially the default Main
Identity.

Setting up Outlook Express Newsreader for MSNews:
http://www.insideoe.com/resources/communities.htm#setupmsnews
--
Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP Outlook Express
~IB-CA~

"Epinn" <som...@example.com.NO_SPAM> wrote in message
news:O1zIRx30...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

Epinn

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Sep 8, 2006, 4:14:05 PM9/8/06

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Bruce,

I realized that I wouldn't be able to see your reply via OE. So, I went to Google and happily read my other messages. Then I came back to OE and clicked synchronize. All of a sudden, the messages were downloaded and I could see your reply. I haven't changed a single setting nor deleted the rule. Don't know what's going on. As far as I am aware, I don't think I have done anything extra.

>>For the rule, Tools | Message Rules | News. Find it and click Remove.

The problem was I couldn't find it before my previous post. It wasn't there to be found.

>>You must have done something else also, because this message was sent using
Quoted Printable instead of MIME / None. I am also getting a prompt to
install a language pack to view this message correctly.

Yes, it wasn't set to Western Europe (ISO). But it has **always** been like that and you didn't have a problem before? Only now? Anyway, I'll change it.

>>Lastly, Set up a new identity and set up MSnews. See if there is a
difference. Identities can become damaged, especially the default Main
Identity.

I heard you. But I don't understand why other newsgroups won't have the problem.

In summary, I don't have a clue what stopped me from seeing other people's threads in the first place, don't know why clean up, reset, message rule gave me a headache and lastly don't understand why going to Google and coming back was the magic pill. If I had not gone to Google, I would still be staring at a blank pane??

Enough confusion for one day. Won't touch OE!! ;)

Thanks for your prompt reply.

Epinn

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Sep 8, 2006, 4:23:04 PM9/8/06

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>> this message was sent using
Quoted Printable instead of MIME / None.

Remember last week I had a problem with broken links and I took the easy way out by using tinyurl? Well, Michel gave me some instructions to change settings and one of them was to change to quoted printable. Now, I don't have broken links for long URL's anymore. For details, you can refer to the other thread. Unfortunately, one problem gone, a new one came. I am not saying that the two are related. I am not convinced because I don't have the new problem with the other newsgroups.

Epinn

"Bruce Hagen" <Nos...@mymail.invalid> wrote in message news:u0crQ630...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

Bruce Hagen

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Sep 8, 2006, 4:48:22 PM9/8/06

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The problem with Quoted Printable is there is no indent on reply as you can
see from this post, making it harder to distinguish especially in threads
with many posts. Have you tried links after changing to Western European
(ISO)?

I still think you should try a new identity. It may cure both problems.

File | Identity | Add New Identity. Create a new one and test it. If all is
well, you can import your messages from the old identity and delete it.

How to Create and Use Identities in Outlook Express
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=209169

Also, removing this problem news account, Tools | Accounts | News | Remove,
and adding it back after a reboot may also be a possible fix.

--
Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP Outlook Express
~IB-CA~

"Epinn" <som...@example.com.NO_SPAM> wrote in message

news:uVhrYS40...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

Michel Merlin

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Oct 3, 2006, 1:11:50 PM10/3/06

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In short:

- Plain Text/MIME/None (= "7bit")/8-bit headers/wrap at 64/NO-quoting char
- "the other thread" Epinn mentions is recalled in "===== Related Thread 1" at bottom (BTW my help was partly due in turn to Michael Santovec, see "===== Related Thread 2". Thanks anyway to Epinn for his thanks).

Details:

1) Western European (ISO)
~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
I recall (after Bruce and Epinn) that if using european accentuated characters, you must chose « charset="iso-8859-1" », which is achieved by:

OE > Tools > Options > Send > Sending > International Settings > Western European (ISO)

If you chose anything else you will cause problem to your recipients when reading your message - particularly with UTF-8, that will destroy on arrival your text around each accentuated character (this is why Americans don't see the mess they are making when sending in UTF-8). Don't be impressed by people touting UTF-8: they have never *TRIED* - or they would know. UTF-8 may become a working solution in the future, it is NOT ready yet.

English headers
~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Additionally, in the same Dialog Box, it's better to check the case "When replying to message always use English headers" (otherwise you will end with headers like « Re: An: Re: An:... » where all the "Re"s, being different depending on languages, are not reduced to a single one. Don't worry, in 2006 everyone on earth can read English headers - even the most anti-English fanatics).

2) Plain Text/MIME/None/8-bit headers/64 char indent
~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
In "OE > Tools > Options > Send > Sending", I recap the 4 alternatives, but for direct use, please jump to the 4th ("=== d", News, Plain Text). Before that I insert here just explanations useful only for more unfrequent uses:

- in (private) Mail, your recipient is educated and relax, so the best is to write him in an up-to-date format, which is:
HTML/MIME/Quoted Printable/8-bit headers/images as links (NOT embedded)/Indent (with HTML side bar).

If you write in Plain Text, keep the remaining unchanged excepted you remove indentation (that, in Plain text, would be ugly and inefficient: just look at Newsgroups...<g>): Plain Text/MIME/Quoted Printable/8-bit headers/NO-wrap/NO-indent)

- in (public) News, the same educated people still are there, you do meet them, yet they are overwhelmed by Fast Posters, to whom the easiness and instantliness of posting offers a big advantage over educated persons; in addition Fast Posters are often the same people, just temporarily conditioned by the excitation on public boards (and sometimes unfortunatelly by external political commands - but this you can't anything about it, hence people often prefer to not talk about it), so you don't want to hurt them either, hence the need to adapt: you don't try educated writing there (If you want to know what happens when you fail on this, just search for my posts and the bashing they get...<confused>):
Plain Text/MIME/None (= "7bit")/8-bit headers/wrap at 64/NO-quoting char.
Indeed even for fanatics you can omit the damned ">" char, none will complain provided you write and format cleanly. And you can more and more often post in QP (Quoted printable), but this needs a bit of care from yoursellf to not hurt readers, hence the general rule (for now) to stick with good old "None/64 char".

If you write in HTML (e.g. to show an image or a TABLE), you use the same exact HTML settings as in Mail.

=== a) Mail Sending Format > HTML Settings:

-- MIME message format --------

- Encode text using: Quoted Printable
- |X| (checked) Allow 8-bit characters in headers

-- else --------

|_| (cleared) Send pictures with messages
|X| (checked) Indent message on reply

=== b) Mail Sending Format > Plain Text Settings:

-- Message format --------

* MIME
- Encode text using: Quoted Printable
- |X| (checked) Allow 8-bit characters in headers

* else:

- {greyed: Automatically wrap text at |64| characters, when sending.}
- |_| (cleared) Indent the original text with |G| (greyed) when replying or forwarding.

=== c) News Sending Format > HTML Settings:

-- MIME message format --------

- Encode text using: Quoted Printable
- |X| (checked) Allow 8-bit characters in headers

-- else --------

|_| (cleared) Send pictures with messages
|X| (checked) Indent message on reply

=== d) News Sending Format > Plain Text Settings:

-- Message format --------

* MIME
- Encode text using: None (that goes for the simplest encoding, "7bit")
- |X| (checked) Allow 8-bit characters in headers

* else:

- Automatically wrap text at |64| characters, when sending.
- |_| (cleared) Indent the original text with |G| (greyed) when replying or forwarding.

3) Effects on URLs
~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
URLs are clickable with no problem when Quoted Printable, hence in 3 of the 4 cases above. The problem arises only in the 4th case, News/Plain text/"None" (= 7bit). In that case the recipe is simple: prepare your message, then at the moment of posting, "OE > Tools > Options > Send > Sending > News Sending Format > Plain Text Settings", and there, 2 cases:

- the URL is no more than 132 char long: "Automatically wrap text at |132| characters, when sending."
- the URL is 133 char or more: "Encode text using: Quoted Printable"

After sending, don't forget to go back to "None"/64 char (64 and 132 are the 2 extremes OE offers; 64 is also the right line length to have no problem on any printer/driver/OS; you don't need to shorten it to 55 as some are doing since you don't use any "indent" char.)

There is also the alternative to use http://tinyurl.com (or equivalents) but this is only for people educated and careful enough to add the title of the page, since the tinyurl you get gives by itself no information on the target page (and most often fails to show if the page has been visited).

Paris, Tue 3 Oct 2006 19:11:50 +0200

----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----
From: "Bruce Hagen" <Nos...@mymail.invalid>
Newsgroup: news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.outlookexpress.general
Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/%23JWZcg4...@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl
Sent: Fri 8 Sep 2006 13:48:22 -0700 (20:48:22 GMT)
Subject: Re: Bruce, help!

The problem with Quoted Printable is there is no indent on reply as you can see from this post, making it harder to distinguish especially in threads with many posts. Have you tried links after changing to Western European (ISO)?

I still think you should try a new identity. It may cure both problems.

File | Identity | Add New Identity. Create a new one and test it. If all is well, you can import your messages from the old identity and delete it.

How to Create and Use Identities in Outlook Express http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=209169

Also, removing this problem news account, Tools | Accounts | News | Remove, and adding it back after a reboot may also be a possible fix.
--
Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP Outlook Express
~IB-CA~

----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----
From: "Epinn" <som...@example.com.NO_SPAM>
Newsgroup: news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.outlookexpress.general
Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/uVhrYS40...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl
Sent: Fri 8 Sep 2006 16:23:04 -0400 (20:23:04 GMT)
Subject: Re: Bruce, help!

>> this message was sent using Quoted Printable instead of MIME / None.

Remember last week I had a problem with broken links and I took the easy way out by using tinyurl? Well, Michel gave me some instructions to change settings and one of them was to change to quoted printable. Now, I don't have broken links for long URL's anymore. For details, you can refer to the other thread. Unfortunately, one problem gone, a new one came. I am not saying that the two are related. I am not convinced because I don't have the new problem with the other newsgroups.

Epinn

----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----
From: "Bruce Hagen" <Nos...@mymail.invalid>
Newsgroup: news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.outlookexpress.general
Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/u0crQ630...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl
Sent: Fri 8 Sep 2006 12:39:55 -0700 (19:39:55 GMT)
Subject: Re: Bruce, help!

For the rule, Tools | Message Rules | News. Find it and click Remove.

You must have done something else also, because this message was sent using Quoted Printable instead of MIME / None. I am also getting a prompt to install a language pack to view this message correctly.

In Tools | Options | Read | Fonts - Make sure Western European (ISO) is selected.

In View | Layout, make sure Show All Messages and Group Messages By Conversation are checked.

Lastly, Set up a new identity and set up MSnews. See if there is a difference. Identities can become damaged, especially the default Main Identity.

Setting up Outlook Express Newsreader for MSNews:
http://www.insideoe.com/resources/communities.htm#setupmsnews
--
Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP Outlook Express
~IB-CA~

----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----
From: "Epinn" <som...@example.com.NO_SPAM>
Newsgroup: news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.outlookexpress.general
Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/O1zIRx30...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl
Sent: Fri 8 Sep 2006 15:23:46 -0400 (19:23:46 GMT)
Subject: Bruce, help!

Hi,

I have to start a new thread as I can't see a single message for this newsgroup right now.

I followed your instructions in my other thread. Get xxx headers at a time has always been unchecked. I set a new message rule (60 days etc.) and applied it to OE only. Thank God I didn't do this to the other newsgroups. Then I clicked cleanup etc. All the other newsgroups seem to have downloaded the messages and are back to business. But OE is *blank* with a message saying ".....Some items may be hidden because a view is applied." I tried to find the rule so that I could delete it. But not sure how. Right now, I am worse than a while ago i.e. I don't even see my own posts and synchronization doesn't help and I can't delete the rule. I am stuck staring at a blank pane for OE.

I have been wondering even if my cleanup, reset, download work properly, why did I have a problem with OE in the first place? What caused it?

Glad I can still send out a new post.

Help! Thanks.

Epinn

===== Related Thread 1 (links are clickable) =====
From: "Michel Merlin" <michel...@laposte.net>
Newsgroup: news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.outlookexpress.general
Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/%23HBRTXb...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl
Sent: Wed 6 Sep 2006 15:07:45 +0200 (13:07:45 GMT)
Subject: MU (Microsoft Update), QP (Quoted Printable) or None, Allow 8-bit in headers, only indent in HTML, don't send pictures

Yes Epinn should go tu WU (or MU, http://update.microsoft.com/). And he should also tell his exact versions of OS, IE (not only OE), as his settings for sending format. They should be set IMO to:

OE > Tools > Options > Send > News Sending Format >

1) Plain Text Settings > Message Format:
* MIME
Encode text using: Quoted Printable
|X| (check) Allow 8-bit characters in headers

If ever QP (Quoted Printable) caused problems (more and more rarely), then:

* Automatically wrap text at 64 characters, when sending
|_| (clear, i.e. uncheck) Indent the original text with [greyed] when replying or forwarding.

Reasons: indent char are useless; unwrapping text starts being crippled at 65 char on some combinations of OS, printer and fonts; almost all mail or news servers now handle properly (unencoded) 8-bit chars in headers.

2) HTML Settings > MIME message Format:
Encode text using: Quoted Printable
|X| (check) Allow 8-bit characters in headers

|_| (clear, i.e. uncheck) Send pictures with messages
|X| (check) Indent message on reply
[greyed:] Automatically wrap text...

Reasons: this way pics will not be embedded as such, but only as links (<IMG src=...>); indentation does work properly in HTML (unless sidebar through page break)

3) Redo (1) and (2) in OE > Tools > Options > Send > Mail Sending Format, identically (there is no point in any difference here between Mail and News).

BTW Epinn should notice that handles (as Tinyurl), as useful as they are, also have their limits:

- some people won't read them (fearing malware)
- links are not self-explaining
- links don't always change colors when visited

Paris, Wed 6 Sep 2006 15:07:45 +0200

===== Related Thread 2 (links are clickable) =====
From: "Michel Merlin" <michel...@laposte.net>
Newsgroup: news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.outlookexpress.general
Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/e0lcn4C0...@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl
Sent: Mon 4 Sep 2006 16:26:40 +0200 (14:26:40 GMT)
Subject: Accentuated letters: Quoted Printable, Allow 8-bit characters in headers

{This message is no more encoded with "None" - see bellow - but with "Quoted Printable"; which apparently makes indentation irrelevant. Please tell me in case it would display or print unproperly, particularly with wrong wrapping}

1) Thanks a lot Michael: this is the 1st time I see that explained so clearly. If I understood correctly:

In "OE > Tools > Options > Send > Mail Sending Format > Plain Text Settings > Message Format > MIME", I should chose:

|_| (cleared) None
|X| (checked) Quoted Printable
|_| (cleared) Base 64

My old choice was "None". I take your info as that when I send a message with accentuated chars (FR or SP or DE), my recipient's email client will be able to read them with the right char set only f that set is told in my header, which was not done so far with "None", but will be done from now on with "Quoted Printable": is that correct? In addition, "Quoted Printable" makes the case "" is now greyed. This is why I didn't use until now. After your advice I try it here.

Of course those settings have to be the same in the 3 other dialogs (Mail *and News*, Plain Text *and HTML*).

2) May I use your attention to extend to this other related question:

The dialog above also contains:

|X| (checked) Allow 8-bit characters in headers

Trying to check if my old choice (checked "Allow 8-bit") was correct, I visited:

http://www.google.com/search?q=Allow+8-bit+characters+in+headers
http://www.sendmail.org/misc/email-explained.html#MLvsAliasDiffs
chapter "7-bit data vs. 8-bit data": a good, simple and comprehensive explanation, with references.

From this I retain that what is at stake is, can I include 8-bit characters (typically: european accentuated chars) in headers without 1st encode them in 7-bit? Many pages propose to check, still more to clear, the "Allow 8-bit" box, for "reasons" tied to the browser used (often checking for newer versions); while it seems to me the main criterium is not the browser, but the *mail or news servers*; and that more and more of those servers *allow* unencoded 8-bit chars in subject. If this is the case, I would be right to have switched (a few years ago) to "Allow"; but I am not sure. What do you think?

Paris, Mon 4 Sep 2006 16:26:40 +0200

----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----
From: "Michael Santovec" <michael_...@prodigy.net>
Newsgroup: news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.outlookexpress.general
Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/ORjcJviy...@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl
Sent: Sun 27 Aug 2006 15:54:38 -0700 (22:54:38 GMT)
Subject: Re: Outlook Express and Outlook cannot read accented letters

If you send a message to yourself, do they show up OK?

If using English, German, Spanish, French or Dutch you should use "Western European (ISO)" for Encoding. Places to check this:
- Tools, Options, Send, International
- Tools, Options, Read, Font
- Tools, Options, Read, International
- When composing a message, look in Format, Encoding.

That will be most compatible with other mail programs. You used UTF-8 on this news posting. A number of mail programs can't handle that well.

For Hungarian, I think you need to use "Central European (ISO)".

Also, make sure that in Tools, Options, Send, Plain Text Settings, you have specified MIME and Text encoding of Quoted-printable (the HTML settings should already have that setting).That way OE will specify the character set being used in the message.

For message that you receive, it is dependent on the sender using a suitable character set as well as MIME so that his program tells OE what character set the message is using. If the message doesn't display correctly, then you can try View, Encoding and guess the character set the sender likely used.

--
Mike - http://pages.prodigy.net/michael_santovec/techhelp.htm

----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----
From: "Yabrudi" <Yab...@discussions.microsoft.com>
Newsgroup: news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.outlookexpress.general
Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/8F895025-FA67-49E6...@microsoft.com
Sent: Sun 27 Aug 2006 12:03:02 -0700 (19:03:02 GMT)
Subject: Outlook Express and Outlook cannot read accented letters

I receive and send emails in various languages, English, Hungarian, German, Spanish, French,Dutch. Some of them have accents and accented letters in their alphabet: Â¿,'s, Ã¡, Ã©, Ã, Ã³ Ãº, Ã¤,Ã«,Ã¶ Ã¼ etc. They show up in my computer in the way shown below. The correct spelling is shown in a parentesis(RED)

Can you help me? What shall I do to receive the accented text correctly? Where can I find the different language packages to download if it is necesarry and how to install them.

My computer is a DELL Dimensions 9100 running with Windows XP home edition in English, Outlook Express 6, Internet Explorer 6, Encoding: Western European, Fonts:Arial. I have all of the Microsoft updates installed and all of the above language are enabled in the Micosoft XP language setting, however my programs scan only english and spanish texts for errors but they do not change the misspelled accented letters.

In English:

WarÃ,â?Ts Chaos Steals CongoÃ,â?Ts Young (War's Chaos Steals Congo's Young)

In Hungarian:

Az elsÃfÂµ hÃfÂ¡zassÃfÂ¡g az ÃfÂ©rzelem diadala az intelligencia
felett.

(Az elsÃ¶ hÃ¡zassÃ¡g az Ã?rzelem diadala az intelligencia felett.) A mÃfÂ¡sodik hÃfÂ¡zassÃfÂ¡g a remÃfÂ©ny diadala a tapasztalat felett.

(A mÃ¡sodik hÃ¡zassÃ¡g a remÃ©ny diadala a tapasztalat felett) A harmadik hÃfÂ¡zassÃfÂ¡g a hÃfÂ¼lyesÃfÂ©g diadala mindenek felett.

(A harmadik hÃ¡zassÃ¡g a hÃ¼lyesÃ©g diadala mindenek felett)

In Spanish:

Ã,Â¿Quien invitÃfÂ³? (Â¿Quien invitÃ³?)
Luego de varios dÃfÂas (dÃas)de gran expectaciÃfÂ³n (expectaciÃ³n) por parte de la prensa y las autoridades, llegÃfÂ³(llegÃ³) a nuestro paÃfÂs (paÃs) el ÃfÂºltimo (Ãºltimo) dictador en funciones de AmÃfÂ©rica (AmÃ©rica) Latina y por cierto, el decano de los dictadores de Occidente pues lleva ya 47 aÃfÂ±os (aÃ±os) de tiranÃfÂa, (tiranÃa) todo un rÃfÂ©cord.(rÃ©cord)

Epinn

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Oct 7, 2006, 4:22:30 PM10/7/06

to

Michel,

It's interesting that you show up again after a month. I have a feeling that you are not a regular on this board. Do you only help when an MVP escalate an issue? Just curious. Not sure what this means: "BTW my help was partly due in turn to Michael Santovec."

I see the word "educated" throughout your post. I don't think I am "educated" enough to grasp most of the stuff you said. ;) But I am happy to say that I picked up one piece of important info from your most recent post.

"OE > Tools > Options > Send > Sending > International Settings > Western European (ISO)"

Guess what, I didn't have WesternEuropean (ISO) and I have changed it now. This explains why one time someone couldn't open my email (not attachment but email). Some offices have pretty strict settings.

Now, I also want to give you an update. I followed your advice in your previous post(s) and I changed the settings to "quoted printable" etc. and ever since I have no problem including loooong URL's in my posts to the newsgroups. Initially, I used tinyurl as well to play safe. Then, I dropped the tinyurl altogether. I know I am dropping the ">" char. As a result of weighing both the reward and the sacrifice, I decided that being able to use long URL's is more important to me and I stick with "quoted printable."

You wrote (YW): ...... Indeed even for fanatics you can omit the damned ">" char, none will complain provided you write and format cleanly.

I haven't had a single complaint so far.

I know I should upgrade in a few areas. However, since I can get by with what I currently have, I maintain the attitude of "don't fix it when it isn't broken."

I have one question about copy/paste to post. Let's say I have created some data on an Excel worksheet. I copy and paste the data to an *email* and it looks fine. But when I copy and paste to a post all the alignments are off after I have sent out the post. One poster says this is the norm. Is there a way I can show a decent sample of a worksheet (just a few rows) on a post?

Appreciate advice.

Cheers,

Epinn

"Michel Merlin" <michel...@laposte.net> wrote in message news:OivwF8w5...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

Michel Merlin

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Oct 8, 2006, 2:43:45 AM10/8/06

to

« Do you only help when an MVP escalate an issue? [etc, etc.] »

Misrepresenting the situation this far opposite to reality unveils you too much for me to read and reply more of this. Jumping to facts:

« I have created some data on an Excel worksheet.

I copy and paste the data to an *email* and it looks fine.
But when I copy and paste to a post all the alignments

are off after I have sent out the post. »

Did you send with standard settings (i.e. your Mail message in HTML and your News message in Plain Text)? This would explain the result. In that case, just turn your being-composed News message into HTML: "OE > Newsgroup > Ctrl+N > Format > Rich Text (HTML)". If you want your resulting HTML cleaner (and more reliable), in that being-composed message go to "View > Source Edit", then check and improve your HTML source code.

Now I never did what you are trying (posting an Excel sheet - or an excerpt). In such case I would build the excerpt as a smaller Excel file, and upload it here as an attachement to your post (convenient since you are using OE). This way readers can use it directly as what it is (an Excel file).

Glad you had no problem using QP (Quoted Printable) and no complaint omitting indenting chars (as ">"). I too had none. However QP doesn't indent, thus needs manually formatting quotes, as I did just above ("I have created... sent out the post."), or the quote will get ugly and/or unclear to some readers in some situations. In that case (careful formatting), using no ">" just makes posts clearer IMO (yet I remain open to any different advices or reactions from other readers).

PS. Your OE looks outdated (See headers below). Do you visit MU (http://update.microsoft.com) regularly?

Paris, Sun 8 Oct 2006 08:43:45 +0200

----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----

From: "Epinn" <som...@example.com.NO_SPAM>
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
Newsgroup: news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.outlookexpress.general
Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/%23T9vl5k...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl
Sent: Sat 7 Oct 2006 16:22:30 -0400 (20:22:30 GMT)
Subject: How to include an Excel spreadsheet on a post?

Michel,

It's interesting that you show up again after a month. I have a feeling that you are not a regular on this board. Do you only help when an MVP escalate an issue? Just curious. Not sure what this means: "BTW my help was partly due in turn to Michael Santovec."

I see the word "educated" throughout your post. I don't think I am "educated" enough to grasp most of the stuff you said. ;) But I am happy to say that I picked up one piece of important info from your most recent post.

"OE > Tools > Options > Send > Sending > International Settings > Western European (ISO)"

Guess what, I didn't have WesternEuropean (ISO) and I have changed it now. This explains why one time someone couldn't open my email (not attachment but email). Some offices have pretty strict settings.

Now, I also want to give you an update. I followed your advice in your previous post(s) and I changed the settings to "quoted printable" etc. and ever since I have no problem including loooong URL's in my posts to the newsgroups. Initially, I used tinyurl as well to play safe. Then, I dropped the tinyurl altogether. I know I am dropping the ">" char. As a result of weighing both the reward and the sacrifice, I decided that being able to use long URL's is more important to me and I stick with "quoted printable."

You wrote (YW): ...... Indeed even for fanatics you can omit the damned ">" char, none will complain provided you write and format cleanly.

I haven't had a single complaint so far.

I know I should upgrade in a few areas. However, since I can get by with what I currently have, I maintain the attitude of "don't fix it when it isn't broken."

I have one question about copy/paste to post. Let's say I have created some data on an Excel worksheet. I copy and paste the data to an *email* and it looks fine. But when I copy and paste to a post all the alignments are off after I have sent out the post. One poster says this is the norm. Is there a way I can show a decent sample of a worksheet (just a few rows) on a post?

Appreciate advice.

Cheers,

Epinn

----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----

From: "Michel Merlin" <michel...@laposte.net>
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2905
Newsgroup: news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.outlookexpress.general
Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/OivwF8w5...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl
Sent: Tue 3 Oct 2006 19:11:50 +0200 (17:11:50 GMT)
Subject: How to make long URLs clickable in OE Plain Text messages (Re: Bruce, help!)

In short:

- Plain Text/MIME/None (= "7bit")/8-bit headers/wrap at 64/NO-quoting char
- "the other thread" Epinn mentions is recalled in "===== Related Thread 1" at bottom (BTW my help was partly due in turn to Michael Santovec, see "===== Related Thread 2". Thanks anyway to Epinn for his thanks).

Details:
......................

Epinn

unread,

Oct 8, 2006, 4:21:02 PM10/8/06

to

<< Misrepresenting the situation this far opposite to reality unveils you too much ......

Please note that it was an innocent mistake ........ Believe it or not, I am speaking the truth.

Disclaimer: I am NOT one of them. I don't want to take side with anybody. I am, in no way, connected with any group of people. I definitely want to remain independent.

Now I understand why you doubted my compliments in the past; you didn't think I was sincere.

I may post again after I have digested other parts of your post.

Epinn

"Michel Merlin" <michel...@laposte.net> wrote in message news:OQxdcUq6...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

Epinn

unread,

Oct 9, 2006, 5:43:58 PM10/9/06

to

>> If you want your resulting HTML cleaner (and more reliable), in that being-composed message >> go to "View > Source Edit", then check and improve your HTML source code.

Source Edit is greyed out. So, I'll ignore the above.

>> I would build the excerpt as a smaller Excel file, and upload it here as an attachment to your >> post (convenient since you are using OE).

No, I will never do that. I observe the etiquette of posting to the newsgroups. Some users may not have bandwidth and it may take them forever to open an attachment. I want to be considerate. One time, I accidentally changed the subject/heading half way through a thread, I was told.

Next time, when I copy and paste a few rows of a worksheet to a post, I'll use the HTML format.

Thank you for responding. Once again, I remain independent and I do what I think is right without taking sides. I did appreciate your helping me with my long URL issue.

Epinn

"Michel Merlin" <michel...@laposte.net> wrote in message news:OQxdcUq6...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

Michel Merlin

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Oct 10, 2006, 4:08:40 AM10/10/06

to

1) If you apply the « OE > Newsgroup > Ctrl+N > Format > Rich Text (HTML) » I told you, then "Source Edit" shoud NOT be greyed out.

2) A carefully written XLS file packs much useful information and productive foormatting in small volume, in many situations less than 20KB; OTOH a series of dishonest insinuations and implications, by itself or by the replies it makes necessary, generally posted in Plain Text, often bloat the NG with several times that size with absolutely no useful information or formatting. Just look around.

3) Drag-and-Dropping (or Copy-Pasting) a selection from an XLS file into an OE HTML message will most often make a *bigger* selection. Only by trimming the HTML Source of that selection, as I suggested, will you get it *smaller* than the original XLS.

4) Some Netiquettes are hypocritical and dishonest to the point of preferring the bloat (even in Plain Text) over anything kind, efficient and true (even in HTML or XLS or else); many others are the opposite.

5) I am sure that after all the messages you posted, you don't ignore that each message should have its own subject, and that the ones attacking the few doing it right, are just bad faith fanatics.

Please make your choices. I personnally can't promise to reply to all posts.

Paris, Tue 10 Oct 2006 10:08:40 +0200

----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----
From: "Epinn" <som...@example.com.NO_SPAM>

Newsgroup: news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.outlookexpress.general
Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/eg3NJw%236GH...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl
Sent: Mon 9 Oct 2006 17:43:58 -0400 (21:43:58 GMT)
Subject: Re: To include an Excel spreadsheet, turn the post into HTML (or upload the XLS as an attachment)

>> If you want your resulting HTML cleaner (and more reliable), in that being-composed message >> go to "View > Source Edit", then check and improve your HTML source code.

Source Edit is greyed out. So, I'll ignore the above.

>> I would build the excerpt as a smaller Excel file, and upload it here as an attachment to your >> post (convenient since you are using OE).

No, I will never do that. I observe the etiquette of posting to the newsgroups. Some users may not have bandwidth and it may take them forever to open an attachment. I want to be considerate. One time, I accidentally changed the subject/heading half way through a thread, I was told.

Next time, when I copy and paste a few rows of a worksheet to a post, I'll use the HTML format.

Thank you for responding. Once again, I remain independent and I do what I think is right without taking sides. I did appreciate your helping me with my long URL issue.

Epinn

----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----
From: "Michel Merlin" <michel...@laposte.net>

Newsgroup: news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.outlookexpress.general
Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/OQxdcUq6...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl
Sent: Sun 8 Oct 2006 08:43:45 +0200 (06:43:45 GMT)
Subject: To include an Excel spreadsheet, turn the post into HTML (or upload the XLS as an attachment)

Epinn

unread,

Oct 10, 2006, 4:42:51 AM10/10/06

to

Your points are well taken.

Re: #1, previously I did follow the instructions, and I tried a few times ......

Anyway, it is working now. Thanks.

Epinn

"Michel Merlin" <michel...@laposte.net> wrote in message news:OwheONE...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...