What about Hotmail?
darkrats
interface is pretty much useless, always getting the "working on your
request" message, and then having to switch to the full windows live
interface to get my mail. At first this was just once in a while, but now
it's almost always the case. Has anyone heard anything from MS about whether
they will be fixing this, or is this just MS's way of getting us to move to
the newer layout?
![PA Bear [MS MVP]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXsf05hH-R8XChS3fXPPzfoO8FYYxAKhT86KfPnIELr3QJ9tQ=s40-c)
PA Bear [MS MVP]
Optimize IE for Windows Live Hotmail
http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!6203.entry
Top 30 Windows Live Hotmail Help Topics for Mail and Settings:
http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!5828.entry
E-mail Support:
https://support.live.com/eform.aspx?productKey=wlmail&ct=eformts
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/
StephenB
I see that you've already been given links to support, but I just wanted add
that I've not heard of the problems you are encountering, so I'm going to have
to assume it is a browser issue or connectivity issue on your end, though it
could certainly be an account/server problem that hasn't been reported widely in
the newsgroups.
-steve
--
Stephen Boots
MVP Windows Live
Windows Live OneCare Forum Moderator
sbo...@mvps.org
...winston
free(Vista/IE7) and one Hotmail Plus(Vista/IE7 and XP/IE6) with the classic interface.
--
...winston
ms-mvp mail
"darkrats" <dark...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:OztA01i$IHA....@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
darkrats
"working on your request" in a search engine (I use g**gle) and you'll see
that the problem is beginning to spread. It happens on all my browsers,
dial-up and broadband, and I know a number of people around the country
(Canada) that are also reporting this problem. I was kind of hoping that
some MVP with some MS connections would be able to offer a solution. I like
the classic interface, but it's becoming a real pain.
"StephenB" <sbo...@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:5ce9a4tuu3jodg747...@4ax.com...
...winston
option with my different Live ID's(free, legacy, and Plus) it works to my satisfaction.
Stability of an internet connection has never been an issue at my end(cable, 7MB)when using IE6/IE7 in default mode, and privacy
settings set to allow msn, live, hotmail cookies.
Based on user's input, the Classic interface, does have its problems...pinning down those issues is a challenge especially when so
little feedback is available when any of the IE7 optimization or Hotmail Support's suggestion are tried or resolve the issue.
--
...winston
ms-mvp mail
"darkrats" <dark...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:eKPk#kp$IHA....@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
mae
"Though we may not be able to commit in providing
you an exact date when this issue will be completely fixed, I would like to
assure you that this issue has been flagged as "high priority."
I guess everyone wanting web-based client has to move to Yahoo!.
It has features like the old Hotmail.
mae
"darkrats" <dark...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:OztA01i$IHA....@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
mae
It began with this update they pushed to some users including me:
http://mailcall.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!CC9301187A51FE33!47753.entry
They have turned off comments but a few first responses:
http://mailcall.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!CC9301187A51FE33!47753.entry#comment
Read some comments noted here:
http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!7506.entry
http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!6203.entry
There is a comment from Support about a fix for Firefox. but I prefer IE.
Effects my accounts (none free):
WinXPsp3, IE7; using Cable or DUN.
VistaSP1 using Cable or DSL
And those systems are updated and otherwise function just fine.
mae
Robert Reed
the classic interface on all of them. I had no problems with any of those
accounts using the classic interface.
--
Robert Reed
"...winston" <winst...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:OmVSetq$IHA....@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
Earle Horton
say, but I don't.
Earle
"...winston" <winst...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:OmVSetq$IHA....@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
...winston
--
...winston
ms-mvp mail
"Robert Reed" <nos...@msn.com> wrote in message news:F4C20DBD-D73F-442A...@microsoft.com...
StephenB
comments) since the issue hasn't affected me at all and I believe this update
has been fully deployed by now to all of the servers hosting Windows Live
Hotmail.
-steve
"mae" <agra...@notemail.msn.com> wrote:
--
StephenB
harder to address than they expected or they ran into issues during testing. I
just don't know...
-steve
"mae" <agra...@notemail.msn.com> wrote:
>7 weeks ago support told me the issues were "high priority"
>Heard nothing since - no notice at LiveHotmail re:
>any update or issues, nothing in "help",
>stopped any comments in their blogs.
>Everyone at Olympics or dismissed? Would you pay for this?
>
>
>
>mae
>
>"StephenB" <sbo...@mvps.org> wrote in message
>news:94vba4h41vr53ieb8...@4ax.com...
jaz
to a newer browser.
no big deal.
...winston
--
...winston
ms-mvp mail
"mae" <agra...@notemail.msn.com> wrote in message news:%23wiT9FI...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
StephenB
>I don't recall the original thread..is this a Hotmail Plus account ?
This is Mae's response earlier in the thread that referenced some
acknowledgement of the problem.
"It began with this update they pushed to some users including me:
http://mailcall.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!CC9301187A51FE33!47753.entry
They have turned off comments but a few first responses:
http://mailcall.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!CC9301187A51FE33!47753.entry#comment
Read some comments noted here:
http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!7506.entry
http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!6203.entry"
-steve
...winston
Dolomite
http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/comingsoon/en-us/default.htm
You will see how they say "We're combining the classic and full versions of
Hotmail..."
This is a classic repugnant marketer's way to say they are cancelling
Classic version (it is called reframing or how to manipulate with nicer
words). And it probably explains why the "left click open email in new
browser" was disabled a while back in the Classic version (as example on how
to make the "full" version look better, and how we were steered like cattle
to their vision of email).
I was hoping Hotmail Classic would stay there and eventually be fixed.
However, it will bee abandoned and we will all bee forced to go to the "new"
Gmail paying clone called the "full" version. Sorry, I am upset and sad for
this miopic view from MS about email.
The new system is geared for marketers and ad servers, not us. And it is
kind of anti Microsoft original idea of computing. That we can personalize it
and have it our way.
N. Miller
> The new system is geared for marketers and ad servers, not us.
Who pay for the service, of course. Most of us certainly don't pay for our
email. "Free" email isn't...
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum
Earle Horton
news:ytt66uuf...@msnews.aosake.net...
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:04:00 -0700, Dolomite wrote:
>
>> The new system is geared for marketers and ad servers, not us.
>
> Who pay for the service, of course. Most of us certainly don't pay for our
> email. "Free" email isn't...
>
Cheers,
Earle
Gary VanderMolen
A paid service that displays ads? I would not put up with that.
--
Gary VanderMolen, MS-MVP (Mail)
Earle Horton
news:uSW5gdCG...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
--- --- --- --- --- ---
No ads here. I pay through the Qwest DSL service, for use of
MSN/Hotmail/Live email. Other paid clients such as for example Hotmail Plus
probably don't get ads either.
Earle
Dolomite
the Classic version, or even before that.
No ads visible (main reason to pay). So advertisers are not paying for my
email.
However, my point is that since the new "Live" philosophy was to compete
with Google in the ad world, then the whole Hotmail Live world shifted to
serve advertisers and not us.
Therefore, I believe that all Hotmail accounts, even the paying ones go
through an ad based routine (probably gathering data as well). Then, paying
accounts simply do not display the ads. However, this creates unnecesary
delays and as I said before it does not serves us.
In adition, this is probably why the "open in new tab" has disapeared. How
can ads be displayed in several tabs at the same time? It was great for those
of us that like to multitask and work on several emails at once. However, it
made the whole thing complicated for ads and for gathering intelligent data
on us. It needed to go out to serve them, not us. (Small secret, you can open
new tabs in Yahoo Premium).
Furthermore, and this is the main point, the whole interface has to be
adapted for that purpose (ads, not us). Instead of using the creative genious
of Microsft to serve us first, then marketers.
Imagine a new version of Microsoft Word Light connecting to the internet and
displaying ads while you write a love letter. That is where Google is going
and why I still have hope for Microsoft.
Why pay for business class tickets in this airline if the seats (no matter
how comfortable) are cramped together like in economy and all you get are
peanuts?
I am only complaining and worried because I care.
N. Miller
Most of us do not.
N. Miller
> No ads here. I pay through the Qwest DSL service, for use of
> MSN/Hotmail/Live email. Other paid clients such as for example Hotmail Plus
> probably don't get ads either.
I don't know about Yahoo! Mail Plus (a paid email service), but if they are
like the paid, co-branded ISP services (I have 'at&t Yahoo! HSI'), they do
get ads. I don't pay Yahoo! through AT&T. I just accepted the invitation to
"migrate" from a straight Pacific Bell (SBC) DSL account to "SBC Yahoo! DSL
Service". I've got ads all over my 'at&t Yahoo! HSI' web mail pages.
...winston
--
...winston
ms-mvp mail
"N. Miller" <anon...@msnews.aosake.net> wrote in message news:15dy7yj9...@msnews.aosake.net...
Dolomite
these clients from going to a faster Gmail or whatever comes next?
I don't like Gmail's privacy's ways, but I am talking about this majority
that seems to be so important to Microsoft.
I just think the whole community is having "groupthik" mentality on this ad
based Internet and missing long range visions.
N. Miller
> "N. Miller" wrote:
>> On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:26:13 -0600, Earle Horton wrote:
>>> "N. Miller" <anon...@msnews.aosake.net> wrote in message
>>> news:ytt66uuf...@msnews.aosake.net...
>>>> On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:04:00 -0700, Dolomite wrote:
>>>>> The new system is geared for marketers and ad servers, not us.
>>>> Who pay for the service, of course. Most of us certainly don't pay for our
>>>> email. "Free" email isn't...
>>> Some of us pay for Hotmail/MSN/Live email service.
>> Most of us do not.
> If Hotmail Live is geared toward nonpaying clients that enjoy ads, what keeps
> these clients from going to a faster Gmail or whatever comes next?
Gmail is not faster; not that I can tell. But I mostly use client access
(Windows Live Mail+HTTPMail for Hotmail, IMAP+SMTP for Google).
> I don't like Gmail's privacy's ways, but I am talking about this majority
> that seems to be so important to Microsoft.
The majority use HTTP (web browser) for email access, I believe. The rest of
us use IMAP+SMTP, or POP3+SMTP. Microsoft has always gone their own way, as
evidenced by their insistence on HTTPMail for client access (why did they
invent a new protocol when the hoary old pre-Internet POP3/IMAP/SMTP work
just fine?)
> I just think the whole community is having "groupthik" mentality on this ad
> based Internet and missing long range visions.
Ads pay for things. You get paid ads in your magazines, newspapers; even
most channels your cable and satellite companies carry have ads. The
Internet isn't free. I like Robert Anson Heinlein's commentary in, /The Moon
is a Harsh Mistress/: "TANSTAAFL"..."There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free
Lunch". The money for some things may not come out of your pocket, directly;
but it comes out of *somebody's* pocket.
Earle Horton
colonies on the Moon, Venus and Mars by now, have fought off a Chinese
invasion, and be preparing for interstellar travel already. Personal
intercity transportation would be taken care of by conveyor belts, and the
fuel crisis would not exist. The Howard Foundation would be breeding a race
of extremely long-lived humans, right among the rest of us. He was right
about the free lunch thing though. You could take that message to
Washington, London, Caracas and Tokyo, but no one would listen.
Cheers,
Earle
Dolomite
What I am hearing is that the future Hotmail Live will be geared for
advertisers and nonpaying clients. Because of this, features many of us like
will be cancelled (like "left click open in new tab").
We (the minority) just have to surrender to that fact and make a decision
about staying or moving (a fact about Hotmail since Microsoft bought it).
I will hang in there. I like to feel I control my email interface by paying
and avoiding ads (something I can not do in Gmail). By the way, Yahoo Mail
Plus does not show ads and does not scan our email for the benefit of
marketers; Hotmail (all versions) and Gmail do.
I use the 3 systems every day, and I keep looking for the new thing out
there (or hoping that someone in Microsoft sees the light about privacy,
trust and the concept of experience while on the computer).
I am sad that Microsoft could not come up with a more versatile interface
that could satisfy almost anyone (including multitaskers).
Heinlein's quote is quite good. However, I just think that advertising is
not the only way (or as it seems nowadays "The Way"). For example, I pay to
my ISP to be on the net, to Hotmail to read email, and I avoid ad based sites
like the plague (a flashing ad is an immediate closing of webpage).
Furthermore, this groupthink mentality is probably crushing creativity in
many rooms in Silicon Valley, Redmond, etc...
About ads I like Frederik Pohl's "Merchant's War".
N. Miller
> "N. Miller" wrote:
>>> "N. Miller" wrote:
> Thanks Norman for information and allowing a civil discourse.
>
> What I am hearing is that the future Hotmail Live will be geared for
> advertisers and nonpaying clients. Because of this, features many of us like
> will be cancelled (like "left click open in new tab").
Web mail has always been geared toward making money. Free webmail can only
make money by selling ad space. All of which is irrelevant to "left click
open in new tab", which is a factor of what kind of scripting the service
will use, and how the browser will interact with the scripting. That kind of
action is independent of advertising servers.
Certainly the new, Beta Yahoo! Mail interface hides the menu to allow
opening an email in a new tab.
> We (the minority) just have to surrender to that fact and make a decision
> about staying or moving (a fact about Hotmail since Microsoft bought it).
It has been nine years since Microsoft bought Hotmail!
> I will hang in there. I like to feel I control my email interface by paying
> and avoiding ads (something I can not do in Gmail). By the way, Yahoo Mail
> Plus does not show ads and does not scan our email for the benefit of
> marketers; Hotmail (all versions) and Gmail do.
I know that the Yahoo! Mail access that comes with my paid AT&T DSL account
*does* show ads; probably something about the agreement between AT&T and
Yahoo!. I would not doubt that they also track users for the purpose of
targeted ads. But that is part of the "at&t Yahoo! HSI" co-branding
agreement.
> I use the 3 systems every day, and I keep looking for the new thing out
> there (or hoping that someone in Microsoft sees the light about privacy,
> trust and the concept of experience while on the computer).
I can't see who your ISP is. But you might investigate whether they were on
the list of evaluators of NebuAd. Charter, Embarq, Wide Open West, and a
couple of other U.S. ISPs were set to partner with NebuAd, which was going
to track user's web surfing habits using hardware installed on the ISP
transit network. One would be able to "opt out" of receiving the ads, but
there would have been no way to opt out of being tracked.
The U.S. Congress started asking questions of the NebuAd CEO, and of
Charter; and Charter bailed on the agreement. For now, NebuAd looks dead.
But that doesn't mean that the marketers won't be back.
And check your ISP's AUP/TOS. Mine ('at&t Yahoo! HSI') does not promise to
keep NebuAd-like scanning off of their network. Comcast may, or may not be
better; but it is more expensive. I am starting to think it is time to give
up on HSI, and go back to dial-up service.
> I am sad that Microsoft could not come up with a more versatile interface
> that could satisfy almost anyone (including multitaskers).
They are likely not to think of anything beyond the most common way that
people use the service. That is always the way these things go.
> Heinlein's quote is quite good. However, I just think that advertising is
> not the only way (or as it seems nowadays "The Way"). For example, I pay to
> my ISP to be on the net, to Hotmail to read email, and I avoid ad based sites
> like the plague (a flashing ad is an immediate closing of webpage).
> Furthermore, this groupthink mentality is probably crushing creativity in
> many rooms in Silicon Valley, Redmond, etc...
I can't get to the information I want without hitting ad-based sites.
Ad-blockers help, but there it is. If I were to avoid ad-based sites, I'd
have to stay off of the Internet. There is nothing of interest on any of the
ad-free sites I've ever been to.
Dolomite
Thanks for all info Norman, really.
...winston
Hotmail = Windows Live Hotmail = free
Hotmail Plus = Windows Live Hotmail Plus = $20/yr
Both are under the 'Live' classification.
--
...winston
ms-mvp mail
"Dolomite" <Dolo...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:E01D468C-24C4-46F6...@microsoft.com...
...winston
--
...winston
ms-mvp mail
"Dolomite" <Dolo...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:AEF876EE-FC95-481F...@microsoft.com...
> What I am hearing is that the future Hotmail Live will be geared for
> advertisers and nonpaying clients.
Where might you be hearing this ? Links available ?
Because of this, features many of us like
> will be cancelled (like "left click open in new tab").
Sorry, not related to the above.
>
> By the way, Yahoo Mail Plus does not show ads and does not scan our email for the benefit of
> marketers; Hotmail (all versions) and Gmail do.
Hotmail Plus, Like Yahoo Mail Plus does not show ads in the main mail windows. Click on Home in either web application also does
not in either. Leave the confines of ones inbox by clicking on a link available in the Home section will show ads in both.
Yahoo Plus, like Hotmail does scan your email with a predetermined algorithm filter.
Separately, how did you determine your Hotmail is being scanned for the benefit of marketers ?